Which Side Should Characters KO Opponents At?

[Atria]

Yeah just recently, I had this question pop up into my head and I'm just wondering what side should each character KO opponents at? Like, I understand that some characters prefer to KO characters vertically while others are better at KO'ing their opponents horizontally. There could be some who are adept at doing both well. However, I don't know the preferred method for each character.

I think that Olimar, Fox, Falco and DDD are good at KO'ing vertically while characters like Pit, MK and ROB prefer to KO their opponents at the side. Some characters I think are adept at doing both well like Snake and Ike, but that's pretty much all I know. I just think that this would be handy for me to know so I can select stages accordingly to suit me and disadvantage my opponent. Is there like a list on this because if there is, I can't seem to find one.

Okay this is what I've got so far on which direction characters should be KO'ing their opponents at:

Horizontally
MK
Lucario
Kirby
Pit
Squirtle
ROB
Jigglypuff
Diddy
C.Falcon
Wolf?
Pikachu?
Mario?
Wario?

Vertically
Ivysaur
DDD
T.Link
Link
Fox
Luigi
Yoshi
I.C.
Zelda?
Shiek?
Peach

Both Horizontally and Vertically
Ike
Marth
Olimar
Charizard
G&W
Snake
DK
Ness?
Falco
Ganondorf
Sonic?
Bowser
Lucas

 

[Noobicidal]

Jigglypuff prefers to kill on the sides. Jungle Japes is the best stage for her playstyle. Extremely high ceiling, and small side blast-lines.

 

[BlueShield]

Well I could share the style for the people I use.

Toon Link because of the lack of efficiancy of his FSmash and also his best kill moves being his Uair and USmash. He's defintely someone vertical.

Link is also vertical IMO. Kills with the FSmash are always at high percentages but his Dair and Uair are da bomb! Both provide vertical knockback.

Snake is both. F-tilt, U-tilt, FSmash (sometimes), Uair and Bair. Really killer moves.

Ike is also both. USmash and FSmash are great, but slow, kill moves.

Fox is more vertical. I see USmash kills more than FSmash kills, where I'm at. To me his FSmash isn't a reliable kill move.

 

[CRASHiC]

Dededee can KO both vertically and horizontally, but since most players use the quick headbutt uptilt, expect for vertical kills.

 

[Kage Me]

I think that Olimar is good at KO'ing vertically

Only with purples and, to a lesser extent, yellows and reds. He can also spike you with those three. If he has a blue Pikmin, he'll probably kill you horizontally with a b-throw. Reds feature a quite powerful f-air. Yellows can be used in a d-smash to kill you with a semi-spike.

 

[CRASHiC]

Also, Diddy is near impossible to kill vertically, he relies heavy on gimps and just general horizontal kills.

 

[Scott!]

Yeah, Olimar kills everywhere...

But as for those who I actually know how to use, Marth prefers to kill off the side, though he has good upwards kills too. It's far from impossible to go up, but yeah.

Zelda also goes both up and out, with up and down smash. Looking at Fsmash and LKs make me think she prefers the side too.

Fox is like always upwards. Upsmash is too good.

Hm... who else do I mess around with... well, Lucario goes off the side more, with his Fsmash and Aura Sphere.

 

[The_NZA]

Can we also go over basic information in this topic, like which stages have the highest ceilings and side blastzones, etc.

 

[Steel_Samurai]

I'm pretty sure Lylat cruise has a higher ceiling and smaller sides

 

[Tachyon]

Diddy is definately more of a horizontal and gimp/spike character. His Usmash can't kill until close to 200% it's ridiculous.

I think luigi's mansion has a pretty low cieling. Or it might be the fact that you can get very high up and close to the ceiling because the mansion is so tall.

 

[xoxokev]

Ness can do ALL of em!

Off the top - uair/utilt
Sides - bair/bthrow
DOWN - dair

 

[Ugg]

Well I could share the style for the people I use.

Toon Link because of the lack of efficiancy of his FSmash and also his best kill moves being his Uair and USmash. He's defintely someone vertical.

Link is also vertical IMO. Kills with the FSmash are always at high percentages but his Dair and Uair are da bomb! Both provide vertical knockback.

Snake is both. F-tilt, U-tilt, FSmash (sometimes), Uair and Bair. Really killer moves.

Ike is also both. USmash and FSmash are great, but slow, kill moves.

Fox is more vertical. I see USmash kills more than FSmash kills, where I'm at. To me his FSmash isn't a reliable kill move.

UTilt/UAir are better kill moves than USmash for Ike, IIRC

 

[:mad:]

Ness can do ALL of em!

Off the top - uair/utilt
Sides - bair/bthrow
DOWN - dair

A well placed fsmash can catch the worst players.

 

[Noa.]

Game and Watch can do both, upsmash for vertical KOs, and forward and down smash for horizontal. It really just depends on which you use more for killing.

Ness also kills in mostly every direction. PKT2 kills to the side, which is my most preferred kill move.

The stage with the closest kill zone is Corneria. Lylat, Pictochat, and Luigi's Mansion have large kill zones. Green Greens, Norfair, and Brinstar have close horizontal kill zones.

 

[:mad:]

Game and Watch can do both, upsmash for vertical KOs, and forward and down smash for horizontal. It really just depends on which you use more for killing.

Ness also kills in mostly every direction. PKT2 kills to the side, which is my most preferred kill move.

It's good to use PKT2 sparringly, you become predictable after awhile and same mindgames won't work.
So it won't always work.

And G&W's dsmash can kill vertically, and horizontally.

 

[Noa.]

It's good to use PKT2 sparringly, you become predictable after awhile and same mindgames won't work.
So it won't always work.

And G&W's dsmash can kill vertically, and horizontally.

Yeah, I occasionally use the bat and upair to kill with Ness as well. And Game and Watch does kill vertically with the sweetspotted downsmash.

 

[_Phloat_]

It also depends a little on the matchup and stage.

This thread may be nice, but if you are really looking into how your characters can KO, then you want to check out the individual character discussion boards instead of BTD.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Nobody said it can also depends on the blastzones? 0.o

 

[The_NZA]

Can we please compile a stage list:

Corneria: Short horizontal and vertical killzones
Luigi's Mansion: ?
Lylat: ?
Pictochat:?

etc.

 

[Plum]

Nobody said it can also depends on the blastzones? 0.o

Yeah, good luck at ever landing a vertical kill in Jungle Japes XD

 

[Martel Hammer]

Nobody said it can also depends on the blastzones? 0.o

True. Very, very true.

Although, I usually prefer to KO horizontally *cough Falcon user cough*.

 

[Geist]

It also depends a little on the matchup and stage.

This thread may be nice, but if you are really looking into how your characters can KO, then you want to check out the individual character discussion boards instead of BTD.

^This

You'd have to make a chart composing of every character vs every character on every stage with every move to have this question answered.

Floaties like jiggs and kirby tend to get ko'd vertically much easier than horizontally, and a character's moveset differs in effect from stage to stage. For instance, Math sucks *** at vertical kills. He can't do them. Yet he kills horizontally like a madman, especially on a stage like battlefield.
Jiggs gets gayed at incredibly low percents at corneria by getting thrown too high.


just play by experience and logic...

 

[FlashGearz]

Dedede can go ether way. U-tilt, U-smash for vertical kills. fair, bair for side kills, bair for gimps.

Yoshi imo kills better off the top, with uair and his high double jump. But doesn't have too much trouble spiking, or killing sideways.

Lucario should be killing horizontally.

 

[Atria]

Hmm...I don't think that I explained my question clearly enough for most people. I'm just wondering what the main method for all characters are when it comes to KO'ing there opponents. Stages, your opponent, blast zones etc. are NOT taken into consideration for this. It's just the general method on how a character should KO their opponent. I think it is known that all characters are capable of KO'ing their opponent in any direction. However, some characters like ROB for example, suck at KO'ing vertically because his USmash can only situationally hit opponents and his Uair is hard to use as a KO move. Therefore, he is better off at KO'ing opponents off the side. However, I don't use ALL of the characters well in the game, so it's hard for me to tell what their best method is for when it comes to KO'ing their opponent. Also, not all of the guides I look at specifically state what the best method is for KO'ing your opponent when using a certain character. (Unless if I'm skimming through things again.) That's why I have come here to ask for help on this. If I can gather enough data at the end, I might summarize everything into a list which everyone can refer to which I think may be useful for some people including me.

Also, these were some examples I didn't know about because I don't use these following characters either because I suck with them or don't know how to use them well:

Dededee can KO both vertically and horizontally, but since most players use the quick headbutt uptilt, expect for vertical kills.

From this, I now know that DDD's main method of KO'ing opponents when they are at the right percent is to KO them vertically because his U-tilt is good at doing that. Sure, he could KO at the sides, but his F-tilt barely has any knockback to it, it's hard to land his FSmash and I don't think that his Bair, Nair or Fair can KO as early as the U-tilt. Therefore, it's easier for DDD to use the U-tilt to finish off weakened opponents.

Diddy is definately more of a horizontal and gimp/spike character. His Usmash can't kill until close to 200% it's ridiculous.

I didn't know that Diddy's USmash sucked that much at KO'ing. So what does that mean? You know it, his main method for KO'ing characters is by knocking them off the side or to a lesser extent, gimping them off stage.

Do people understand now what I'm trying to ask for now? Also, suggestions for ANY character would be helpful because I'm not 100% confident about the other characters I mentioned earlier in my first post either. I just think this could be a useful thread to refer to if this can work out.

 

[Mattsy]

Yoshi imo kills better off the top, with uair and his high double jump. But doesn't have too much trouble spiking, or killing sideways.

Definiting off the top. Spiking I'll give you, but Yoshi can't kill extremely well sideways; fsmash is easy to punish; nair's the only think I'd worry about.

Lucario should be killing horizontally.

Agreed, but he still has consierable vertical KO power. Uair is a viable kill move and upsmash s desceptive. Uptilt is a great juggler and can position them well at higher percents.

Hmm...I don't think that I explained my question clearly enough for most people. I'm just wondering what the main method for all characters are when it comes to KO'ing there opponents. Stages, your opponent, blast zones etc. are NOT taken into consideration for this. It's just the general method on how a character should KO their opponent. I think it is known that all characters are capable of KO'ing their opponent in any direction. However, some characters like ROB for example, suck at KO'ing vertically because his USmash can only situationally hit opponents and his Uair is hard to use as a KO move. Therefore, he is better off at KO'ing opponents off the side. However, I don't use ALL of the characters well in the game, so it's hard for me to tell what their best method is for when it comes to KO'ing their opponent. Also, not all of the guides I look at specifically state what the best method is for KO'ing your opponent when using a certain character. (Unless if I'm skimming through things again.) That's why I have come here to ask for help on this. If I can gather enough data at the end, I might summarize everything into a list which everyone can refer to which I think may be useful for some people including me.

Do people understand now what I'm trying to ask for now? Also, suggestions for ANY character would be helpful because I'm not 100% confident about the other characters I mentioned earlier in my first post either. I just think this could be a useful thread to refer to if this can work out.

The thing is, these things DO differ depending on the stage, or what opponent you're against. I use fair and dair to gimp some players and characters for a KO, but I'd never dream of it against a Metaknight. I like KOing with uair against some characters, but If I've counterpicked Japes against a G&W I'm just wasting my time.

 

[Atria]

The thing is, these things DO differ depending on the stage, or what opponent you're against. I use fair and dair to gimp some players and characters for a KO, but I'd never dream of it against a Metaknight. I like KOing with uair against some characters, but If I've counterpicked Japes against a G&W I'm just wasting my time.

I KNOW THAT! >_> I'm just wondering what the general procedure is for each character when it comes to KO'ing their opponent eg. DDD prefers to KO opponents vertically with his U-tilt because it is easy to land and can KO at a fairly high percentage. To answer my question, you DON'T need to take those things into consideration.

If I know how my opponent's character prefers to KO other characters, THEN I CAN ALSO TAKE THOSE OTHER FACTORS INTO CONSIDERATION in order to select a stage accordingly to disadvantage my opponent by decreasing their chances at achieving a KO against you. Against DDD for example, DDD's main KO method is to KO opponents vertically. A solution to that could be to select a stage like Jungle Japes for example to hinder his chances at KO'ing you vertically. (IDK if DDD does well on this stage or not.) Therefore by playing on that stage, you won't get KO'd vertically so easily when against a DDD. The rest depends on your player skills/experience against DDD players. Do you get my point now?

Also, when I say that "all characters are capable of KO'ing their opponent in any direction." What I'm saying is true, however IT'S HARD FOR ALL CHARACTERS TO BE CAPABLE OF DOING THAT. Only some characters are lucky enough to be able to do this like Snake and Ike IMO. Characters like Diddy and DDD find it hard to be able to KO AN OPPONENT IN ANY DIRECTION because Diddy sucks at KO'ing vertically, but it's easier for him to KO his opponents horizontally. With DDD however, it's easy for him to KO opponents vertically but it's hard for him to KO opponents horizontally. Other characters WILL fall into one of those respective catergories too depending on their moveset like ROB for example. His Uair is hard to KO with and it's hard to land his USmash on opponents. Therefore, he's another example of a character who finds it hard to get vertical KO's like Diddy.

 

[Mattsy]

"Do you get my point now?" - I always got your point; you're just looking at this too simplistically.

People will vary their playstyle, so it's completely relevant. Whatever you learn will be irrelevant on A stage against B character of C skill level.

 

[Plum]

Well if you want an extreme generalization, G&W kills where ever the hell G&W wants.
Seriously, he has so many kill moves

But as for specifics Usmash gets ridiculously early kills vertically
Dsmash if sweetspotted gets ridiculously early kills vertically.
Dsmash sourspotted gets nice kills horizontally
Fsmash has some startup lag but the hitbox lasts forever and has great horizontal knockback
Fair can get horizontal kills off stage early and more towards average percents on stage
Dair can be slowfalled for some nice spikes
Uair can get vertical kills with the wind... pretty **** funny.
Lastly good luck surviving a Bucket or 9 Judgement

 

[Vyse]

Diddy's Uair is all I have on Shadow Moses.
>_>

Dedede chaingrabs you to the edge, throws you off, Bair edge guards, GG.
Heck, chain grab to walk off, GG.

M2K's first KO on Reflex in this match is pretty rediculous.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ovHARCOHaQ



Edit:
Also there's this vid for inspiration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUQVSaQoz_s&feature=related

 

[Atria]

"Do you get my point now?" - I always got your point; you're just looking at this too simplistically.

People will vary their play style, so it's completely relevant. Whatever you learn will be irrelevant on A stage against B character of C skill level.

Well obviously yes, this can be irrelevant to know in some way because people can be as random as **** you don't know what the h*** they might do next and that me learning understanding this may be worthless because your opponent may have other dirty tricks up their sleeves to KO you. This I'm aware about. However FYI, I'm still learning the basics here. Therefore IMO, I think that the first logical step for me to do is to learn the basics before I go off learning advanced stuff. In case you don't know, I'm still trying to master the basics of this game. It's normally what people do before they go off to learn the more complex concepts of this game. Also, don't completely disregard the basics of the game. You never know, maybe knowing something like this can help you in an important match. Like this could apply in a situation where your opponent will just spam one of their kill moves hoping that you'll trip into it because you may be at the right percentage for them to KO you. Instead, you know how your opponent's character KO's people. Therefore, you know what moves to look out for and you can just block their attempts at KO'ing you because there are impatient people who just want to finish that fight and just concentrate on attacking you. They don't think about anything else. Because of this, you can punish them accordingly because they are making a glaringly obvious mistake of not defending themselves. So don't just throw the basics out of the window, they can still help you.

Also for me to understand things, I need to look at it from a basic point of view because that's how I learn things much more easily and quickly. IMO, I think that this applies to pretty much everyone. For me, my learning process is going well however, I still need to understand a few more concepts plus I need a LOT of technical work before I even look at/try advanced things. You don't just jump into complex things when you haven't learned all the basics of how your character works. This goes for understanding other characters too despite the fact that you won't use ALL of them. That's just not how it works for me. I need to know EVERYTHING from top to bottom so I can have a chance at understanding more advance things. Obviously you seem to be a much more skilled player than I am however, I'm still learning how things work for me and the basics for the characters I use. If I begin anything complex now, it's likely that I'll hit a brick wall because my understanding of all the basics is only above average ATM. Therefore, I'm doing this to help myself and probably a few others who may be doing what I'm doing. It's fine if you don't agree with my learning methods, but that's just how it is for me and what I know currently ATM.

 

[bludhoundz]

Yeah Diddy pretty much only kills horizontally.

If you can catch your opponent in the air, sometimes a Uair will KO.

Utilt also KOs some (lighter) chars ~140%

Marth is a character that is able to both KO vertically and horizontally. I think he has a few more vertical kill moves, but in general the horizontal ones are more commonly used.

 

[DKKountry]

Donkey Kong likes to kill off the bottom of the stage lol. Cargo > stage spike FTW

 

[Mattsy]

Well obviously yes, this can be irrelevant to know in some way because people can be as random as **** you don't know what the h*** they might do next and that me learning understanding this may be worthless because your opponent may have other dirty tricks up their sleeves to KO you. This I'm aware about. However FYI, I'm still learning the basics here. Therefore IMO, I think that the first logical step for me to do is to learn the basics before I go off learning advanced stuff. In case you don't know, I'm still trying to master the basics of this game. It's normally what people do before they go off to learn the more complex concepts of this game. Also, don't completely disregard the basics of the game. You never know, maybe knowing something like this can help you in an important match. Like this could apply in a situation where your opponent will just spam one of their kill moves hoping that you'll trip into it because you may be at the right percentage for them to KO you. Instead, you know how your opponent's character KO's people. Therefore, you know what moves to look out for and you can just block their attempts at KO'ing you because there are impatient people who just want to finish that fight and just concentrate on attacking you. They don't think about anything else. Because of this, you can punish them accordingly because they are making a glaringly obvious mistake of not defending themselves. So don't just throw the basics out of the window, they can still help you.

Also for me to understand things, I need to look at it from a basic point of view because that's how I learn things much more easily and quickly. IMO, I think that this applies to pretty much everyone. For me, my learning process is going well however, I still need to understand a few more concepts plus I need a LOT of technical work before I even look at/try advanced things. You don't just jump into complex things when you haven't learned all the basics of how your character works. This goes for understanding other characters too despite the fact that you won't use ALL of them. That's just not how it works for me. I need to know EVERYTHING from top to bottom so I can have a chance at understanding more advance things. Obviously you seem to be a much more skilled player than I am however, I'm still learning how things work for me and the basics for the characters I use. If I begin anything complex now, it's likely that I'll hit a brick wall because my understanding of all the basics is only above average ATM. Therefore, I'm doing this to help myself and probably a few others who may be doing what I'm doing. It's fine if you don't agree with my learning methods, but that's just how it is for me and what I know currently ATM.

I didn't know you were still on the basic; I apologise. And diregard the basics? Never! I like to build on the basics.

Apologies if I come across hostile. Sometimes I end up seeming MAD ANGRY GRRR without meaning to.

(also stop posting zomg massive messages ;-; )

 

[Crizthakidd]

snake verticle kills anyone at any percect off any killzone

 

[The_NZA]

ANyone interested in this thread might be interested in this one as well:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=156908

Its a lot of statistical compilation of how well each character kills vertically. It also contains a list of stages with their ceiling heights.

I am interested to know which stages have the furthest horizontal limits and which have the shortest. Thanks for the information in advance.

 

[Sgt. Baker]

Ganondorf kills however he pleases....being able to hit your opponent is the problem with the guy haha

 

[Flamingo]

Depends on stage blastzones.

 

[Kitamerby]

Anyone saying stage blastzones are really all that important when it comes to deciding where to kill is just kidding themselves. When it comes to killing, most characters are in general naturally inclined to killing either to the side or off the top. The exceptions of course are Ike, Snake, GnW, DK, and Diddy Kong, though. The first 4 can kill any way they choose. The last can't kill AT ALL. :D

Anyways, Lucario is generally better equipped for killing off the sides. While Usmash, ForcePalm, and Uair are ridiculously powerful in their own right, the former shouldn't hit unless your opponent is silly, the second doesn't kill until average kill %s (like 130% ugh) and the third... Well, nothing really is wrong with Uair. It's a really good KO move, but it's just that people in general find it easier to kill with Bair, Fsmash, and Aura Sphere, all sideways killing KO moves.

 

[TP]

What are "killing moves?" Isn't that what every move does?

OH WAIT you guys don't main Ganon.

My kills are 50/50. Fsmash, Ftilt, Fair, Uair and Utilt (yes really) for side, Usmash, Dair, DownB, Dtilt and Dash Attack for vertical. It's fun to have 10 kill moves, ignoring Warlock Punch, Dsmash, Jab, Bair, and Nair, all of which can kill.

Have fun with your puny characters.

 

[Vyse]

sif Ganon's Bair can't KO.

EDIT:
Wait, I think I read your post wrong.

Still. Sif Ganon's bair can't KO