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Which is More Broken? #2

Beat!

Beat!

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Marth. If you stay away from vertical killing moves you'll live forever. And gimping possibilities would be taken to another dimension.
 
Violence

Violence

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... Marth with 6 jumps... there's no way...

Just imagine M2K playing Metaknight... in melee...

I mean, wtf do you even do against that? Lasers are awesome, but 6 jumps?!

Here's one:

DK's punch is always fully charged

vs

Roy's smash and aerial hitboxes all gain the damage power and knockback of the strongest hitbox of that move(the entire fsmash has the strongest hitbox throughout the sword), etc.
 
Redact

Redact

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Violence said:
... Marth with 6 jumps... there's no way...

Just imagine M2K playing Metaknight... in melee...

I mean, wtf do you even do against that? Lasers are awesome, but 6 jumps?!

Here's one:

DK's punch is always fully charged

vs

Roy's smash and aerial hitboxes all gain the damage power and knockback of the strongest hitbox of that move(the entire fsmash has the strongest hitbox throughout the sword), etc.
Click to expand...
roy would be a god if he had that

dk punch doesnt change too much in comparison
 
D

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Guest
lol Marth could counter your recovery offstage like 4 or 5 times then jump and up-b back to stage.
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

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t3h Icy said:
I think Falcon could pull off two shots with Falco's laser.
Click to expand...
Falco
-------------------------------------
Blaster

--Ground--
Total (single shot): 57
Shot comes out: 23
Repeated shots, every: 24 frames

--Air--
Total (single shot): 42
Shot comes out: 13
Repeated shots, every: 16 frames
Auto cancels upon landing




Captain Falcon
-------------------------------------
Jump: airborne on frame 5

Air time: 49
Earliest FF hold: 23
Earliest actual FF: 26
FF air time: 36

SH air time: 31
Earliest FF hold: 14
Earliest actual FF: 17
SH FF air time: 20


Yeah he could
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

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I think Falcon would be more broken.. I can imagine Laser to downair/knee. lol. Laser into techchase with so much dmg. Marth would die from center stage anyway lol.
 
VodkaHaze

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The latter is more broken. However, Falcon with Laser is still very broken.
 
Beat!

Beat!

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I really don't think Marth would have any problems dodging the lasers. Marth would also gain the lead much easier (one aerial would basically result in death), which would result in Falcon actually being forced to approach.

I mean, we're talking about Marth with the survivability of Jiggs (well, actually even better). Basically Meta Knight.
 
Doc King

Doc King

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If these existed in Melee, then I would say Marth's 6 jumps. While Falcon with Falco lazers will improve his metagame, it won't make him broken at all. While having Marth have 6 jumps will makes his recovery really broken and will unbalance the game a bit. Marth having 6 jumps will be like Meta Knight, but even WORSE, since Marth is more of a fast faller and you can't really gimp him, so ppl would have a hard time killing him (at least until 2012 or something).
 
FoxLisk

FoxLisk

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falcon with falco's laser wouldnt be all that broken. i mean, falco's moveset is already better than falcon's and he has a laser and isn't broken. having double lasers would be an improvement and falcon's superior running speed would help, and it would certainly make cf top tier, but i dont think he'd be unstoppable even so. he still has no options oos and no aerials with good priority, y'know? whereas marth with 6 jumps would just simplify the process to where nearly any first hit is a kill. he could uair you 6 times on the top platform of yoshi's. he could fair -> fair you enough times to 0-death floaties off the top. he could edgeguard any character however he wanted. it'd be obscene.
 
harriettheguy

harriettheguy

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Marth's combos/follow-ups would be sick. Marth doesn't have the aerial horizontal movement to chase with fairs if they DI away, but I can imagine him jumping towards them to get below them in the air at an angle for skill scoops and skill tilts.

Some limitations of Marth with 6 jumps you can take advantage of:

Marth's aerial's have a good window to punish between aerials: They're lagless when he lands, not between aerials in the air.

Marth doesn't have the horizontal movespeed of Falcon/puff to weave with this aerials and hide the cooldown of his aerials when he's poking... and besides nair (which you can't spam in the air anyway), they do not protect his body, so combined with the previous fact, he can't rush in. He'd be combo food if he just stayed in the air and thrusted (even if you space, fox and falcon can crouchcancel ****).
Because of his moveset and speed, I feel like 6jumpMarth would be very turtle, very annoying, but not necessarily 6 times as gay.


Falcon with laser? You've just bolstered his weakest point in approach with one of the best approaches in the game. Falco can laser-grab into a scrappy forward throw. Now you're giving Falcon laser->grab (his best move). The only sacrifice you make for a short hop laser is his full dash/dash dance...and my opinion is spacing a laser to gain the opposition is much more advantageous than dashdance camping or rolling a dice with an all out dash (you can still have those options after the laser anyway...)

Laser to save teammates, laser to put off-stage opponents into prime position for the dyick, laser the opponents as a continuation when they're at a hard angle to hit in the air, double laser from ledgehop->falcon k-k-k-moves, etc

A shortcoming Falcos have had is not being able to punish people when they jump over lasers, but Falcon is all over that with heavy heavy punishes.

Falcon now also has a B-move to turn around with mid-air. He can cross over people shielding with leaps, run off platforms with turnaround laser.

I think Laser Falcon fits the definition of **** better than 6jumpMarth, but who is more broken I dunno.
 
Strong Badam

Strong Badam

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Violence said:
... Marth with 6 jumps... there's no way...

Just imagine M2K playing Metaknight... in melee...

I mean, wtf do you even do against that? Lasers are awesome, but 6 jumps?!

Here's one:

DK's punch is always fully charged

vs

Roy's smash and aerial hitboxes all gain the damage power and knockback of the strongest hitbox of that move(the entire fsmash has the strongest hitbox throughout the sword), etc.
Click to expand...
you are not hungrybox
stop doing this ****
 
slartibartfast42

slartibartfast42

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Divinokage said:
I think Falcon would be more broken.. I can imagine Laser to downair/knee. lol. Laser into techchase with so much dmg. Marth would die from center stage anyway lol.
Click to expand...
Marth with 6 jumps would still have trouble vs ganon, lol. 6-jumps Marth is more broken than laser falcon except vs ganon then.
 
Wretched

Wretched

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While I agree with the marth with six jumps being more broken, falcon with the lasers is viable as a possibility.
Lets think about it:
1. All of falcons aerials can be used to approach, one of which is the best in terms of safety, spacing, and reliability. His nair.
2. Undeniably, a good falcon can tech chase to death IF he gets the grab or forces a tech VIA nair, dair, etc.
3. With lasers, the option to tech chase to death would be abusable to a much higher degree.
Think about it. If darkrain could control stages the way a falco does, added to his amazing combo potential (easier than foxes, at that), imagine how much more amazing falcon would be. He wouldn't even have to approach anymore.
 
KirbyKaze

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Laser grab is a good reason for Falcon being better.

Laser --> DD camp is another one. Falcon would never have to approach. And if you try to camp him back, he outcamps you. So you have to attack his zone.

6 jumps is a lot, though.
 
MuraRengan

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Basically, as soon as marth touches you you're going to get ridiculously comboed into spikes, but falcon can camp everything and laser->knee would be a devastating approach. I'mma have to go Marth though.
 
ycz12

ycz12

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I don't understand all these claims that giving Marth 6 jumps lets you combo into spike immediately. His horizontal mobility in the air is still the same; DI down and away from f-airs and he still can't reach you fast enough. U-air is still laggy as all hell. Marth's double jump is not that good in the first place. On-stage, Marth is about the same; only off does he really get broken. Campy Fox on Dreamland could probably still beat this.

Also: FALCON WITH SHDL and ledgejump laser? His techchase game is even better now, as SHL replaces jab resets much more safely AND laser to grab is friggin' unstoppable. And imagine DSW approaching you, only NOW HE CAN KNEE YOU ALSO.
 
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