Where you AGT? The Official Toon Link General Discussion/ Video Thread!

[Hulter]

Just tried it out and I am starting to get more consistent results. About the wall grapple, I was aware you couldn't yet, but I was wondering if we had any idea when they would be able to implement it (if ever). I thought I heard somewhere they were having difficulties, so they are trying.

Oh, lord. That's all my part. Sorry. Dumb misinterpretation.

 

[Controlled_Chaos]

Asking for a friend here. How is Toon Link in teams? How should/can he be played effectively? (And how is he with GaW as teammate, If anyone knows)

Sorry if its been said, I didnt want to go trough 25 pages.

Thanks in advance! ^__^

 

[Deleted member]

Dakpo and I tried toonlink + GnW, it worked pretty well. We both keep a lot of stage control, nearly always recover, and kill really early.

TL is really good in doubles, he can play however he wants.

 

[Dakpo]

Confirmed for awesome team. If the Toon Link Is good enough to play around a lot of bacon spam, and the GnW player is good at placing bacon strategically around the tink

 

[Controlled_Chaos]

Nice, got any videos of that?

 

[Chesstiger2612]

So Toon Link now belongs to my mains <3 (in Brawl also Marth, MK and TL were my favs so I had to main them in a way).
Already a bit success with little practice, but I have one question:
What are the best options when you are at a distance far enough to not go for aerials/grab/anything but close enough to not be able to pull a bomb. Normally I utilize my movement to get in one of the other two situations (approach or run away + bomb), but on some stages it doesn't work as well (for example FoD when the platforms are low/not existent)...
Any tips?

 

[jtm94]

I don't know how to feel about GnW in teams, he's either really ON or really OFF for me, but either way he's fun.

I didn't think TL would work as well in teams as he does. Once I perfect bomb jumping with at least 80% consistency I won't lose lives where I should have recovered. I've played matches where my teammate was out early and I was on last life and came back just because if your opponents try to rush you they just eat bombs, and it's great.

 

[Skootarius]

So Toon Link now belongs to my mains <3 (in Brawl also Marth, MK and TL were my favs so I had to main them in a way).
Already a bit success with little practice, but I have one question:
What are the best options when you are at a distance far enough to not go for aerials/grab/anything but close enough to not be able to pull a bomb. Normally I utilize my movement to get in one of the other two situations (approach or run away + bomb), but on some stages it doesn't work as well (for example FoD when the platforms are low/not existent)...
Any tips?

I think this is one of my favorite things about Tink actually. Tink doesn't need to approach in the neutral game. He doesn't have the crazy combos, range, or speed of other characters so he has to sit back and wait sometimes. If you are in the awkward mid range dance, or on a stage that's too small to run freely just play around with creating a home court advantage. Once you get comfortable with Tink you can drop some arrows. They do damage when they're touched even after they've landed and come out reasonably fast. Tink doesn't have the range of characters like Marth so he does have to do some baiting with wave dashes and follow-up game to really make a match that's like what you mentioned even. Just do some dash dancing, and platform play while you wait for them to approach or find an opening. My opinion anyways. Hope this helps.

 

[BRLNK88]

So... is there any viability to Toon being DEAD LAST on the tier list?
The way I see it, no one really understands what he's capable of, and just dwell on his weaknesses.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Toon Link is not best or anything, but people underestimate him. He is maybe lower mid, which is still amazing in PM. He might have some stage counterpick issues, as well as issues against really good edgeguarders similar to problems Falcon and Ganon have there. Because, you can bomb jump and such, but if they keep hitting you back offstage... One weakness could also be ranged pressure where you can't do upB OoS or nair OoS because of the range but the grab is too slow.
All of those are weaknesses you can clearly work around, and Toon Links neutral game is at least average, which is, together with his good mobility and his projectiles, a sign of a good character. He is definitely legit.

 

[B.W.]

One of our known Link players in Chicago is making Toon Link his main. His last two tournaments he entered as Toon Link and they were his highest placings so far

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah I've seen laz. He's ok, theres still some weird link habits stuck in there. He's on his way though.

 

[B.W.]

He placed 4th I think twice as T.Link. Once in our Wavedash Wednesday and then this passed Saturday at Exposure.

I'm trying to show him a few ups and downs with the character, considering he wants to main him now. Laz is definitely the better player, I just know more T.Link stuff. Soon enough he'll know a lot more and he'll be doing a lot better.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

i'll be streaming some friendlies with no game audio tonight at 6pm. Audio splitters come in May 2nd so I'll have audio then.

 

[Praxis]

So, Eastern Washington's top Melee and Brawl player, Chip (Marth/Y. Link in Melee, Toon Link in Brawl), played PM for the first time this last weekend. He spent like 20 minutes to learn the character before being thrust in to battle, and managed to win the 40+ man Project M tournament.

Grand finals (all Toon Link):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHBkPj-Nma0

Winners finals (some Marth here):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRbTZF8wl-U


Thought you guys might like it.

 

[-_Face_-]

So, Eastern Washington's top Melee and Brawl player, Chip (Marth/Y. Link in Melee, Toon Link in Brawl), played PM for the first time this last weekend. He spent like 20 minutes to learn the character before being thrust in to battle, and managed to win the 40+ man Project M tournament.

Grand finals (all Toon Link):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHBkPj-Nma0

Winners finals (some Marth here):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRbTZF8wl-U


Thought you guys might like it.

CHIIIIIIIP holy crap I forgot about this guy. He's such a boss.

 

[Omni]

So how do you wavebounce boomerangs? I know the input for arrows is just jump forward, press b, press analog in opposite direction. Not sure how to replicate this with the boomerang, but I've seen a few guys do it.

 

[-_Face_-]

So how do you wavebounce boomerangs? I know the input for arrows is just jump forward, press b, press analog in opposite direction. Not sure how to replicate this with the boomerang, but I've seen a few guys do it.

It's sort of the same idea, you do [move input] then push the control stick in the opposite direction you are currently moving. So if you're moving right, want to throw rang right and wavebounce left: jump -> right+b -> control stick left. The timing is kinda strict so you may have been hitting that barrier.

 

[Omni]

Hrm. I keep getting b-reversal boomerangs when I do that input. I'll try again in practice.

Not even b-reversal, but just... fade away boomerangs.

 

[-_Face_-]

Oh....I think I might be wrong...I think I'm giving the inputs for a B-reversed rang, not a wavebounced rang, sorry. There's this vid from PMDepot, he's using Ike and only using his neutral B, but I think it's a good place to start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nYWNayYVLo

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Jump -> hold stick in opposite direction (not the one you are facing) -> press b -> turn stick in the direction you were originally facing in at maximum 3 frames.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

So, Eastern Washington's top Melee and Brawl player, Chip (Marth/Y. Link in Melee, Toon Link in Brawl), played PM for the first time this last weekend. He spent like 20 minutes to learn the character before being thrust in to battle, and managed to win the 40+ man Project M tournament.

Grand finals (all Toon Link):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHBkPj-Nma0

Winners finals (some Marth here):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRbTZF8wl-U


Thought you guys might like it.

Tell Chip to watch Toon Link videos of me, Aero, Lunchables, and Jolteon so he can refine that Toon Link with PM stuff because my biggest guess is he doesn't really play PM.

 

[Omni]

Thanks guys.

Been using a lot of Toon Link recently. 2 frame jab is gdlk. Been trying to see if there are more uses for his aerial hookshot being used as an offensive/defensive tool.

Oh, which leads to another question: Imagine me doing a full hop b-air. Plenty of time for another aerial, right? Sometimes I go for a hookshot using Z afterwards, but I get a n-air instead. Why is that? It seems to only sometimes happen if I do an aerial first.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Not 100% sure but I think there is an IASA only applying to some moves, including aerials and excluding zair. Because you can't do a zair now you will do a nair as if you press Z with a non-Z-tetherer.

 

[-_Face_-]

I really like zair, you just have to be really careful with the spacing otherwise you're just asking to get shield grabbed. That and don't do it off the ledge -__- that's the worst. One of the bigger downsides when compared to other aerials is its limited hitbox size and direction I guess.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

And don't forget to zair your bombs :D

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

zair should be mostly used as a spacing tool (has the longest range out of any of TLs moves) and should be used to grab a little % of combos that won't finish your opponent. It'll knock them away, and also give you an extra 4%.


Also you can use it to knock bombs in the air towards your opponent or have them slide off platforms.

 

[Jolteon]

 

[Player -0]

When wavelanding onto the stage from edge you jump up past the stage and have a slight angle down on your control stick right?

Also thoughts on Air Dodging through an arrow and Zairing Pit?

 

[Jolteon]

When wavelanding onto the stage from edge you jump up past the stage and have a slight angle down on your control stick right?

Also thoughts on Air Dodging through an arrow and Zairing Pit?

You don't necessarily have to angle down to ledge dash, you can do them horizontally like you would with a full waveland, the timing is simply more strict. I do most of my ledge dashes as horizontal as possible, so as to put myself closer to center stage, although I think it's a good idea to get comfortable with ledge dashing at any angle that you want. It's a dynamic technique and where you want to land on stage depends a lot on your opponent's positioning. Sometimes it's even a good idea to do very small ledge dashes, e.g. when someone is near the lip of the edge you can do ledgedash in place -> grab.

As for the input you do ledge drop -> jump -> air dodge, the delay from jump -> air dodge is extremely short, so you need good muscle memory for this technique.

The other ledge technique I use in that video is similar but much easier to perform, where I cancel a ledge jump (where you press the jump button while hanging on the edge) and then cancel it into a waveland on a platform. These two options are the only ones I would recommend using to get on stage.

I had thought on experimenting more on using zair as a tool vs arrows but felt more comfortable using nair to clank with them instead since he downtime in-between arrows is short, I think it can be useful and that zair is very underutilised anyway so I want to experiment with it more.

 

[Player -0]

You don't necessarily have to angle down to ledge dash, you can do them horizontally like you would with a full waveland, the timing is simply more strict. I do most of my ledge dashes as horizontal as possible, so as to put myself closer to center stage, although I think it's a good idea to get comfortable with ledge dashing at any angle that you want. It's a dynamic technique and where you want to land on stage depends a lot on your opponent's positioning. Sometimes it's even a good idea to do very small ledge dashes, e.g. when someone is near the lip of the edge you can do ledgedash in place -> grab.

As for the input you do ledge drop -> jump -> air dodge, the delay from jump -> air dodge is extremely short, so you need good muscle memory for this technique.

The other ledge technique I use in that video is similar but much easier to perform, where I cancel a ledge jump (where you press the jump button while hanging on the edge) and then cancel it into a waveland on a platform. These two options are the only ones I would recommend using to get on stage.

I had thought on experimenting more on using zair as a tool vs arrows but felt more comfortable using nair to clank with them instead since he downtime in-between arrows is short, I think it can be useful and that zair is very underutilised anyway so I want to experiment with it more.

I've been cutting a lot of wavelands short then. Any advice/visual cue for the longest waveland variant for every character? Each time I try 100% horizontal I just airdodge with half the character above the platform and half below.

 

[Lazarond]

hi guys! ^.^

 

[Jolteon]

I've been cutting a lot of wavelands short then. Any advice/visual cue for the longest waveland variant for every character? Each time I try 100% horizontal I just airdodge with half the character above the platform and half below.

It really is just a case of grinding out the muscle memory rather than relying on cues, since you have to input the sequence fast.

@ Lazarond : Hey.

 

[Lazarond]

ok guys i need help.... how do u fight diddy and mario as toony goon link???? :0

 

[B.W.]

You're faster than Mario, so use that against him. Also you have disjointed hitboxes. His fireballs are still a pain though.

Play the item and projectile game better than Diddy. Use bananas against him.

 

[Deleted member]

Beat out fireballs with nair, try and avoid them at all costs. If mario grabs you, his d throw followups are guaranteed and do a tooooooon of damage

I have an excellent item game so I use nanners better than most diddys lol. Try to stay on platforms though, diddys ground game is insane but he doesn't have as good of options vs you of you correctly move around on platforms

 

[Lazarond]

whats correctly moving on platforms look like? haha... u have any vidjooosss?????

 

[Jolteon]

I find that good nair use is best vs Mario (fireballs). rang/bomb are tricky to use because of his fireballs+cape, and good luck trying to camp him. Mario has a good grab game but ultimately his range is still mediocre and that's a boon when you have disjoints with very little endlag. Also don't rely on shielding his moves too much, fireballs set him up on block and his moves do a ton of shield stun due to their high damage.

Diddy: You can dthrow cg him for a very long time (regrab in place vs no DI, dash grab vs DI away, wait and then dash grab vs slight DI away), after that you can do uthrow -> up+b to send him off stage. I find bombs are very good against him in neutral as they lead into usmash which is excellent as a combo starter on his weight. Vertical combos work extremely well against him because he's a semi-FFer. Like Zach said, a really good item game (comfortable with IT, wd oos to grab items etc.) is probably the biggest advantage you can have over Diddy, as it allows you to turn many situations to your advantage.

 

[Deleted member]

Correct platform movement is kind basically using the platforms as an approach option. TL can move around on the platforms very well because of his great mobility, so you can take advantage of wavelands, b reverses, etc. I just really don't like being on the ground vs diddy kongs because it makes nanners that much better. WD OOS is definitely one of the greatest tools vs diddys, if you can challenge your opponents item game with your own then it'll be a lot easier. Also like jolt said, Diddy is massive combo weight. Bomb to Upsmash is toonlinks bread and butter vs most people, if you can land it you'll get suuuuuuuuuch a huge opening because you can just juggle people forever. Diddys fast fall makes it really easy to do so.

 

[Lazarond]

ok thanks guys!!