Whats with people and Honor

[Orion*]

because, maybe, JUST maybe, some folks still want to have what little bit of "fun" is barely left in this game. its still, at its core, a video game, and video games are meant to be fun, not mearly just a competition, and not just another way to make money, yes winning the money is nice, but if i just tier whored with charaacters i don't have fun playing as, just to win some money, then why bother playing if i'm not having fun? hell i've got a JOB! to make money, i play the game to have fun, not as a sorce of income, also some folks like the challenge of using a character that isn't top tier or high tier, and seeing how far they can go.

thats fine for the scrubs and such but this a tactical board, meaning we come here to win. go to general discussion please

edit: its not about winning money, that comes in the process or may be an object or reason people want to follow this through. but people are here to WIN. STAND UP AGAINST BRITTANIA

 

[Mota]

Totally agree with you. There is no reason why people shouldn't be maining MK, but of course people don't. Even if Mk was a guaranteed 80-20 on most characters, there would still be people that refuse to main MK. Screw honour, all pick up Mk so he'll be banned already.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm competitive and will try to win with the characters I choose, but my character choice never follows a play the win strategy.

 

[1048576]

There's definitely diminishing returns to learning any character, meaning that the longer you train with that character, the less you improve in a given increment of time. However, learning enough competence with one character to win all his 6-4 matchups is probably easier than learning 10 characters (especially IC's) well enough to win all their 7-3 matchups.

Right now everyone should learn another few characters, but not so many that your main gets overly snubbed. For example, learn D3 so you can win against all the heavy characters on Green Greens. That's about a week's time to get a game from half the cast in an mlg tournament.

 

[MikeKirby]

There's definitely diminishing returns to learning any character, meaning that the longer you train with that character, the less you improve in a given increment of time. However, learning enough competence with one character to win all his 6-4 matchups is probably easier than learning 10 characters (especially IC's) well enough to win all their 7-3 matchups.

Right now everyone should learn another few characters, but not so many that your main gets overly snubbed. For example, learn D3 so you can win against all the heavy characters on Green Greens. That's about a week's time to get a game from half the cast in an mlg tournament.

Yeah, but according to the OP if your opponents plays without this so-called "honor," you'll get counter-picked with Olimar... >.>
He could have just said, "everyone pick up Meta Knight and call it a day." Even then, I think I've seen a few threads like that already.

This thread is no good except for increasing one's post count... and gaining attention...

 

[Turbo Ether]

Dude. Some people prefer to play the characters they have "fun" with, as opposed to not playing the game at all.

Fun is relevant. If it wasn't, you'd be playing a more lucrative game that you don't enjoy.

 

[Ripple]

who wants to play a sport they don't enjoy even if it is for money but only if you win?

I personally wouldn't

same can be applied to smash

 

[Turbo Ether]

How come I don't play Falco or Ice Climbers or DDD?

I don't enjoy playing Falco, or Ice Climbers or DDD.

How come I don't play Poker competitively, a game vastly more lucrative than Brawl?

I don't enjoy playing Poker.

 

[Scaphist]

I think what says Orion* is sensible, he just comes off bad.

I don't think this is something that should apply to everyone though. We need those Ness/Ganon/whatever mains who stick to their guns. That's how they push their character further and show any potential they may have. That's how the game won't feel stale(Lord HDL's hype at pound 4 with Link in melee for example). That's how some players enjoy this game. Some people play for pride, and winning with MK or whatever won't grant them that.

Yeah, basicly it's a sound strategy for increasing your chances of winning. It's just not for a lot of people.

Also, this had to be QFT even though it doesn't have anything to do with what I said.

If you call me cheap, you're calling the game cheap, and if you can't handle it, go play Cooking Mama.

More people need to realize that.

 

[demonictoonlink]

I couldn't read the entire thread, but I read the first few pages and OP obv.

This guy is right/terrible at typing. <3

Brawl is a gay game. SMASH is a gay series.

Matchups and counterpicks should play a much bigger part than they do now. The point is, certain characters are unviable, and they are so for a reason. A Fox won a tourney. He must be pretty good.

Any of you could have beaten him. Go Pikachu. Go ICs (requires more practice but we SHOULD learn it.)
It's a sad thing that not every character can be used for competitive smash, but that's just how it is and we should capitalize on it.

If it isn't banned, do it. I'll be honest...I stay Toon Link. I used to go MK, but I go all Tink mostly to say I did. This is INSANELY scrubby of me. I play a competent MK. I play a competent Falco. Why stick Tink for all games?

It's hard to do, and we all love our non-top tier characters, but the moment the community mans up and learns to play the top tiers, as well as chooses them in tournament, it will be a step of progress.

Game 1s should be MK dittos. Maybe some other characters like Diddy or Snake, but play it safe. Game twos should exploit the characters your opponent chooses or you choose. If they go MK, they are playing correctly. If the stage favors someone else, they should go them.

Counterpick smartly and play a top tier. Srsly

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I do think it is beneficial to learn characters that can help in bad match ups your characters have. I can understand where Orion is coming from in that regard. I however do not understand the overwhelming large amount of Sonic mains hwo knows sonic sucks but still plays him. With no secondary and think that's cool same with the Ganon and Captain Falcon mains. It's annoying to play against. *Shrug* I just don't get it maybe one of the people who main one of those characters can explain it to me.

 

[MikeKirby]

Dude. Some people prefer to play the characters they have "fun" with, as opposed to not playing the game at all.

Fun is relevant. If it wasn't, you'd be playing a more lucrative game that you don't enjoy.

How come I don't play Falco or Ice Climbers or DDD?

I don't enjoy playing Falco, or Ice Climbers or DDD.

How come I don't play Poker competitively, a game vastly more lucrative than Brawl?

I don't enjoy playing Poker.

who wants to play a sport they don't enjoy even if it is for money but only if you win?

I personally wouldn't

same can be applied to smash

^This. If you played this game and continued playing it's because you LIKED it and had FUN. That comes first when it comes to playing or doing ANYTHING you do. Yes, winning is fun but I just don't like how you are coming across to everyone. You've got a point but came across way too blunt. I'm sure if you follow your own advice I'll see you at the top of the tourny scene. >.>

 

[demonictoonlink]

I just want to say that Sonic is the only lower tier character I think people should play.

When you look at him, yeah he's trash...but he somehow wins...

Has anyone seen X vs that one NorCal MK Marth? Zex I think...
It's just that when you don't know the MU, Sonic just ****s all over you. And who the hell knows that MU? If you can get away with something due to opponent ignorance, by all means do it.

 

[Ripple]

in theory its good but when actually applied it becomes

game 1 : MK ditto since he has no counter

game 2: if the stage is flat then the choices are ICs, snake, falco or diddy. if its moving or has hazards then its usually wario, G&W, or MK .

since ics, falco, G&W, wario, and diddy have counters, if they pick these characters the game 2 winner should be the opposite of game 1. unless you pick MK or snake

game 3: same thing happens and we are left with MK or snake

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I just want to say that Sonic is the only lower tier character I think people should play.

When you look at him, yeah he's trash...but he somehow wins...

Has anyone seen X vs that one NorCal MK Marth? Zex I think...
It's just that when you don't know the MU, Sonic just ****s all over you. And who the hell knows that MU? If you can get away with something due to opponent ignorance, by all means do it.

I'm pretty sure sonic is one of the more popular characters played.

 

[Zankoku]

I'm pretty sure sonic is one of the more popular characters played.

He's not really. At least, not among the people who actually know how to use him. After all, you can't claim you know the matchup against Snake just because you wrecked 50 bad Snake players. Same kinda applies to Sonic.

 

[Limeee]

i love all the scrubs in tactical

general discussion where you at!

 

[GHNeko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGh4ZU4H5Hk

 

[vVv Rapture]

Everyone should have a pocket Luigi is what he's really saying.

But, seriously, I do get what he's saying. Though, I do just find it personally more satisfying/fun/whatever you want to call it to play as who I like to play with. I accept the risk in doing so and how I can progress my skill with said character to win regardless.

 

[Blacknight99923]

this thread lost all legitamacy when OP said marth wasn't a viable character.


your basic idea works on paper but lacks the real world application to be considered intelegent.

from sirlins standpoint should MK be the only character we use?
yes
Is that really practical in a game like smash where stages can affect MUs(ie: falco japes)
no
from sirlins standpoint should we all have characters to absoultly **** every other match up besides MK
yes
really?
no, we don't have time to become profiecent at every match up

 

[Clai]

I however do not understand the overwhelming large amount of Sonic mains hwo knows sonic sucks but still plays him. With no secondary and think that's cool same with the Ganon and Captain Falcon mains. It's annoying to play against. *Shrug* I just don't get it maybe one of the people who main one of those characters can explain it to me.

I continue to use Ganondorf in tournaments because I want to continue putting him on the line against players using characters much better than him so I can take Ganondorf to his limits. I will continue using him as long there are matchups to improve on, techincal mishaps I need to fix, or strategies to pick up. I have used other characters in the past (not MK, I suck with MK. I suck with Snake as well and Diddy is far too boring for me), but any time I tried using them in tournament, I ended up doing worse than if I just stuck with Ganon. So I go all Ganon in tournaments now, because I seek perfection with Ganon and I won't stop until I reach it.

I can't bother putting in the time for other characters when Ganondorf desperately needs the training and improvement.

 

[Blacknight99923]

tbh Sirlin didn't write for smash its written for SF, its philosphys, while usually correct, don't always translate properly because there are things unique to smash unlike every other game

and good luck to you Clai, I really do mean it

 

[Deleted member]

I never play as any of those characters because i suck with them, and trying to learn a second character is just too hard for me unless theyAre very simple. Also meet my MK. My opponent has no experience playing as Snake. XD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnqH6sytx_s&playnext_from=TL&videos=JhzCvEiO-ow

 

[Blacknight99923]

it might help if we could read your font

 

[Orion*]

tbh Sirlin didn't write for smash its written for SF, its philosphys, while usually correct, don't always translate properly because there are things unique to smash unlike every other game

and good luck to you Clai, I really do mean it

this isnt about sirlin or metaknight, this is about people taking a **** on other people by abusing the CP system better. smash isnt THAT unique, the same strategies to winning still apply, as they do in all competitive games. the only difference is some rules change, and because of that some strategies are more viable than others.

this thread lost all legitamacy when OP said marth wasn't a viable character.

with metaknight there really is no point to marth, he will probably never win a national.

and this debate isnt about mk being the only char people will play, you people need to stop relating this **** to irrelevant and not really cognitive other stuff.

 

[Blacknight99923]

this isnt about sirlin or metaknight, this is about people taking a **** on other people by abusing the CP system better. smash isnt THAT unique, the same strategies to winning still apply, as they do in all competitive games. the only difference is some rules change, and because of that some strategies are more viable than others.



with metaknight there really is no point to marth, he will probably never win a national.

and this debate isnt about mk being the only char people will play, you people need to stop relating this **** to irrelevant and not really cognitive other stuff.

actually your wrong, marth does better then metaknight in certain high tier matches like snake possible falco or diddy.


every fighter shares common princables but not every fighter has stages that effect game play.

your idea like i said is good on paper but it lacks the ability to be tangible in real play

 

[Karcist]

actually your wrong, marth does better then metaknight in certain high tier matches like snake possible falco or diddy.


every fighter shares common princables but not every fighter has stages that effect game play.

your idea like i said is good on paper but it lacks the ability to be tangible in real play

Marth doesn't do better than MK against Snake.

 

[Kole]

Just wondering, Orion what region are you?

 

[Orion*]

Just wondering, Orion what region are you?

region is unimportant for we all have the common enemy of brittania.

 

[JOE!]

region is unimportant for we all have the common enemy of brittania.

lolz

and to put y 5 cents into this, bringing up somethign that was bashed back on like page two:

someone said that you arent "better" than an opponent if you use mechanic abuses vs them to win.

Honestly, its true, and the guy who shot this down, (i think it was actually you orion ) admitted to it by saying:

"If i were the M2K of 's, i would still lose to becaus eof his Dthrow, etc.", or something similar

so yeah, in a few instances you arent the better man by abusing stuff

 

[Orion*]

i dont care about being better than my opponent if i can beat them consistently

 

[JOE!]

i dont care about being better than my opponent if i can beat them consistently

nor do I, im just saying he was right, and why I am a supporter of stuff like BBrawl and fun matches that arent boring to watch

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I continue to use Ganondorf in tournaments because I want to continue putting him on the line against players using characters much better than him so I can take Ganondorf to his limits. I will continue using him as long there are matchups to improve on, techincal mishaps I need to fix, or strategies to pick up. I have used other characters in the past (not MK, I suck with MK. I suck with Snake as well and Diddy is far too boring for me), but any time I tried using them in tournament, I ended up doing worse than if I just stuck with Ganon. So I go all Ganon in tournaments now, because I seek perfection with Ganon and I won't stop until I reach it.

I can't bother putting in the time for other characters when Ganondorf desperately needs the training and improvement.

Ah I see. You're a perfectionist and ganon is the only character who fits your play style. Thanks for the response. That's a lot better than I main ganon because he's so manly response I typically get =/.

actually your wrong, marth does better then metaknight in certain high tier matches like snake possible falco or diddy.


every fighter shares common princables but not every fighter has stages that effect game play.

your idea like i said is good on paper but it lacks the ability to be tangible in real play

Marth get's ***** by Snake something fierce LoL.

 

[Orion*]

nor do I, im just saying he was right, and why I am a supporter of stuff like BBrawl and fun matches that arent boring to watch

all BBrawl does is create char diversity, its the same boring game with the same camping. B+ if thats what you want bro

 

[Kole]

or just enjoy the game how it is or play melee or another game

 

[Orion*]

or just enjoy the game how it is or play melee or another game

i heard melees really bad, like half the matches are just boring laser camping and down throw cgs, but i never started playing competitively until brawl got cool.

 

[Blacknight99923]

Ah I see. You're a perfectionist and ganon is the only character who fits your play style. Thanks for the response. That's a lot better than I main ganon because he's so manly response I typically get =/.



Marth get's ***** by Snake something fierce LoL.

actually marth beats snake, I can saftley say the rest of the marth board aggrees with me on that



and peopel don't camp lasers in melee like they do brawl lol, they use lasers to rush down in melee

 

[Clai]

Ah I see. You're a perfectionist and ganon is the only character who fits your play style. Thanks for the response. That's a lot better than I main ganon because he's so manly response I typically get =/.

Lol if anyone tells me that Ganondorf sucks, I'll respond by telling them how manly he is. Ganondorf is rediculously manly that's likely the reason I started using Ganon, but perfectionism is the reason I'm sticking with him. It's unfair to condemn a character as worthless until you see him at his highest level of play, I mean look at what Ally is doing with Captain Falcon (I still think that Falcon belongs in Ganon tier, but no one's going to listen until they start learning the matchup better or Link/Zelda/Samus mains start approaching Ally's level).

 

[Orion*]

actually marth beats snake, I can saftley say the rest of the marth board aggrees with me on that



and peopel don't camp lasers in melee like they do brawl lol, they use lasers to rush down in melee

the marth boards are worthless other than pierce, who albeight is a great player is a theory fighter, so i dont really care about the worthless justification. speak for yourself please

the only people that rush down in melee just want to get grabbed, and getting grabbed = stock :/, everyone is like ICs the game is so bad

Lol if anyone tells me that Ganondorf sucks, I'll respond by telling them how manly he is. Ganondorf is rediculously manly that's likely the reason I started using Ganon, but perfectionism is the reason I'm sticking with him. It's unfair to condemn a character as worthless until you see him at his highest level of play, I mean look at what Ally is doing with Captain Falcon (I still think that Falcon belongs in Ganon tier, but no one's going to listen until they start learning the matchup better or Link/Zelda/Samus mains start approaching Ally's level).

how is ganon anything better than beyond the worst character in the game. i dont see it honestly

 

[adumbrodeus]

In general I agree with the philosophy behind this, but there's an issue with the application, dimishing returns.


It takes a particular mentality to be able to apply concepts well enough to play with the majority of the cast, and unless you have that rare ability to apply stuff to the metagame universally intrinsically, you often end up curbing your progress by picking up too many characters.


Furthermore, a number of characters require abuse of things that require significant time and energy to truly shut down certain MUs.


Some people are mentally suited to be better with certain characters.



So, in theory yes, abuse everything to win, in practice, characters isn't always the best outlet for this.




Also, Orion... I find it ironic that you're putting down theorycraft when you're hardcore theorycrafting right here.