What's the difference between Side-B and Down-B? [REVERSION: 8/18/09]

[Jim Morrison]

Lol dumbed down. Now noobs will look in this thread, but they'll see a long post and get scared off.

 

[SonicX580]

How come n00bs doesn't have the capacity to read long stuff?

 

[da K.I.D.]

because they dont want to get better.

 

[SonicX580]

Really K.I.D. or is it because there kinda lazy to read?

 

[da K.I.D.]

they are too lazy to read because they dont want to get better.

if they wanted to get better, they would circumvent their laziness and read the info.
thats what i did, and im lazy as ALLLLLLL HELLLLLL

 

[SonicX580]

they are too lazy to read because they dont want to get better.

if they wanted to get better, they would circumvent their laziness and read the info.
thats what i did, and im lazy as ALLLLLLL HELLLLLL

Well n00bs are n00bs so I'am guessing every one here has to deal with n00bs and stupid threads so I'am guessing well have to ignore them or get locked up or banned am I correct?

 

[da K.I.D.]

depends...

you have to realise that most of the people on the boards would still put you in the category of n00b. and i dont think you would want them trying to bann/flame/getrid of you...

treat others how you would like to be treated. thats the best way to go about things.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Lmao my parents always say that... I never do it though, i treat internet people like ****. They get into the internet/Sonic boards themselves.

 

[SonicX580]

depends...

you have to realise that most of the people on the boards would still put you in the category of n00b. and i dont think you would want them trying to bann/flame/getrid of you...

treat others how you would like to be treated. thats the best way to go about things.

Well what you're saying is true but I pretty much treat everyone nice here and I hardly flame anyone.

 

[Tenki]

First Post, Updated.

SonicX580/KID: Stop arguing on n00bs lol. SonicX: Homing attack and predictability. Know your place.


UPDATE!

SOOOOO I MADE THIS LOOK ALL NICE AND PRETTY AND ORGANIZED.

ACRONYMS
This is probably going to be the hardest thing to understand in this whole ordeal. The letters.
SD = Spin Dash (Hop) (Side-B)
SC = Spin Charge (Down-B)
SDR = Spin Dash Roll (the 'rolling attack' part of the move when it reaches the ground)
SDJ = Spin Dash Jump (jump attack that can be done out of a SDR)
ASC = Aerial Spin Charge (air Down-B)

Throughout this thread, I'll try to keep the color coding the same so you can associate them better. Yellow is for side-B, Orange is for down-B. Light blue is for the ground part (it's the same for both moves!), and Dark Blue is the jumping part (same for both moves!)

...

Phases
You may have noticed that both moves roll, and both Side-B and Down-B can jump after the roll. Well, this is because the roll is actually the same move! Both the Side B and the Down B undergo 'phase changes', where they change 'moves' depending on where they are and what their previous phase was.

This maps out all the possible 'phases' that the move goes through during and after you release the charge. If you have a double jump, you can jump to cancel any of the aerial phases. Hitting [Up], [Jump], or [Attack] out of the grounded phases (charge, SDR) makes you go into the spindash jump (SDJ).

...

Move properties
...

STALE MOVE EFFECT: All of these moves share the same Stale Move counter. Each turn-around or phase-change you initiate all pool in for the same move. I guess calling these "phases" really was accurate, since they are all parts of the same move, aside from their starting points. But anyway, even Side-B's hop and ASC diminish each others' effects, as well as the rest of the moves, SDR, SDJ... the whole thing.

TIME LIMIT: After your initial release of the charge, you will remain in ball form until you jump (SDJ, double jump, etc), or until 2 seconds has passed. Keep this in mind when trying to incorporate spindash into your chase and mixup movements. This "timer" begins counting as soon as you release your charge, regardless of if it's side-B hop, ASC, or just a grounded spin charge- your spin will last for 2 seconds after you release.

IN THE AIR: ANY of the aerial phases (charging, side-B's hop, ASC, SDJ) can be 'ended' by double jumping as long as you have a double jump. SDJ is the only phase that you can actually attack out of without having to jump first.

Charge
Note- this covers both side-B and down-B's charge. Features here are common to both side-B and down-B unless otherwise specified.

Charge: The charge "strength" only affects the SDR. Charge will not make a difference on how strong or fast the aerial versions are!
- Side-B's grounded charge can be cancelled by shield before full charge.
- Side-B's charge is unique in that you must hold B to charge (2 seconds for full charge)
- While charging, Side-B's charge moves Sonic backwards. It 'resets' and overrides any horizontal momentum as long as you're not in hitstun.
- Down-B's charge requires you to be holding Down on the control stick. Holding Down for about 1 second then releasing can let you do a single-charged SDR.
- Down-B can be fully charged for damage by tapping 3 times, full speed by tapping 5 times.
- Unlike Side-B, Down-B's charge does not reset momentum, but you can float left/right while charging it in the air by holding down+left/right.
Remaining Jumps: If you begin a charge in the air without a double jump, then the rest of the move is treated as if you don't have one.
Aerial: If you have remaining jumps, can be jump cancelled.
Aerial: If you press Jump or Attack as the charge is released, you do a spin shot (see below or search for Spin Shot for more info).
Ground: If you press [Up], [Jump], or [Attack] while charging, turns into vertical SDJ ("VSDJ"). It has the same properties as a normal SDJ except it starts off going straight up.​

Spin Dash (SD hop)

Charge: CHARGE DOES NOT AFFECT THE HOP'S DAMAGE OR SPEED.
Remaining Jumps: If you have remaining jumps, can be jump cancelled, allowing you to follow-up with aerials.
Damage: 5-6% constant damage. This phase only has a temporary hitbox that goes away after you go under your starting height. Keep this in mind for when you're using side-B to directly attack opponents.
Knockback: Little knockback/upwards. Positions your opponent for a double jump U-air at about 60%, if you want to get a feel for how high it sends.

Other traits:
- Has invincibility/dodge frames at the beginning of the hop (for about 5 frames after upon release)
- Has higher max air speed than normal jumps.
- Resets vertical and horizontal momentum upon startup.

Phase changes:
- Next: Turns into an SDR as soon as you make contact with the ground.
- Ending the move: Double jumping via [Jump] or [Attack] is the only way to 'get out' of the move. You cannot shield cancel the landing.​

Aerial Spin Charge (ASC):

Charge: CHARGE DOES NOT AFFECT THE DAMAGE NOR SPEED OF THE ASC.
Remaining Jumps: If you have remaining jumps, can be jump cancelled, allowing you to follow-up with aerials.
Damage: This one is really cool. ASC can do multiple hits:
- First hit: 7-11 damage. Damage is based on horizontal velocity, so hold Forward for maximum damage. Likewise, if you hold [Back] and are moving too slowly, you will do less damage or even be able to 'turn off' the hitbox.
- Follow-up hit(s): 7-10 damage. As of now, we're still not sure what changes the damage of the followup hits. You can usually count on the 'worst case' and get the minimum damage from your follow-up hits.
Knockback:
- First hit: High knockback/upwards. This can KO at higher %'s (170-180%+ on grounded opponents)
- Follow-up hit(s): Medium knockback/upwards. Similar, but a little stronger than side-B's knockback. Note that if you hit an opponent with the follow-up hit, it kind of 'kills' the stronger knockback done by the first hit.

Other traits:
- Has higher max air speed than normal jumps.
- Resets horizontal momentum upon startup.

Phase changes:
- Next: Turns into an SDR as soon as you make contact with the ground.
- Ending the move: Holding [shield] as you land will allow you go cancel the move into shield upon landing. While the move is in the air, you can double jump by pressing [Jump] or [Attack] to end it.[/B]​

UNTESTED: There have been multiple accounts for a phenomenon that I will, for now and forever, dub the OMNOMNOM frames. At some point either right before or during landing, Sonic is in a state where he can "eat" destructible projectiles. Among these projectiles are... boomerangs, arrows, turnips, and fully charged 120%+ aura spheres.​

Spin Dash Roll (SDR):

Charge: Charge does affect the speed (and consequently, damage) of the SDR.
Remaining Jumps: Whether or not you have a double jump remaining is still passed onto the next phase. It doesn't exactly affect this part of the move, but keep that in mind. Your remaining jumps aren't renewed until the move ends.
Damage: 7-10 damage. The SDR's damage is based on how fast you're moving! This implies two things: 1) You don't necessarily have to be moving at max speed to do max damage; and 2) If you do a low charge SDR and roll down a hill to speed up, you will do max damage.
Knockback: Very Low knockback/upwards. This move's knockback was purposefully tailored to combo into SDJ/aerial.

Other Traits:
- SDR gains/loses speed when travelling on slopes (goes faster if going down a hill and slower if going up). It's possible to begin a low charge SDR going up a hill, slow down, and speed up going down the hill without any input from you.
- Turn-around (tap/hold [Back] during the SDR):
--- The turn-around does not deal damage until the blue aura comes back.
--- Performing a turn-around "initiates" a 'new' SDR with lower speed. This becomes important in understanding the iSDR (see the bottom of this post for more detail).


Phase changes:
Next: Hitting [Up], [Jump], or [Attack] will shift the move into an SDJ. Alternatively, you can roll off the platform, which shifts the move into the ASC phase.
- Ending the move: There are two ways to 'end' the move from this point.
a) If the 2 second time limit (from release) runs out during the SDR, you will screech stop until momentum stops. This can be very laggy if you're moving quickly, but you can 'slow it down' pre-emptively by beginning a turn-around just before it ends.
b) If you are moving slow enough (for example, slowed down by a hill, or a single charge roll after making contact with one object), you can hit [shield] and cancel the roll!​

​

Spin Dash Jump (SDJ):

Charge: Charge has no effect on this phase!
Remaining Jumps: If you had a double jump when you began the charge, you can use it out of this phase! If not, then you can't
Damage: 7 damage. Like the SD hop, this does constant damage, not counting stale moves. This move has an attack hitbox for about 1-2 seconds (untested: exact length of hitbox out).
Knockback: Medium knockback/sideways.

Other Traits:
- Has higher height than a full hop.
- Has higher max air speed than a full hop.

Ending:
- If you you had a double jump during the charge, you can use it out of the SDJ by hitting [Up] or [Jump]
- You can immediately cancel the SDJ with an Aerial, Airdodge, Spring, or Homing Attack. You have to wait until after the hitbox goes away before you can start a new side/down-B.​

​

...

Spin Shot spinshot spin-shot
Spin shot is the technique that allows you to do an "instant double jump" at something similar to running speed, allowing Sonic to have *gasp* high air speed!

The basic input for this is usually side-B (charge) > release + [Jump/Attack]

You may have noticed that it only works if you have a double jump remaining, and here's why: Spin shot IS a double jump. It will not work from a grounded Spin Charge because you are not in the air, and it will not work without a double jump because you can't jump-cancel the moves.

...But it is NOT a normal double-jump. The 'jump cancel' from pressing jump or attack during an aerial charge (both side/down-b), SD hop, or ASC is a little different from a normal double-jump, since you go into it pressing either [attack] or [jump]. I'm guessing it's this 'special' double-jump that allows you to Spin Shot.

The 'magic' behind spin shot working is this: You interrupt an phase change to SD hop/ASC with a double jump!

Here are all the possible cases from which you can spin shot:
- Side-B (charge) > SD (Hop) + jump
- Aerial Down-b (charge) > ASC + jump
- SDR (roll off platform) > ASC + jump
...
Untested: Is it possible cancel a SDR>SDJ with an immediate double jump?

Air Dash airdash air-dash
"Air Dash" is a situational 'glitch' that works on certain levels only. The basic input for it is:

Side-B charge (upwards) on a 45 degree or steeper slope > release

Again, the 'magic' behind the air dash is, like spin shot, interruption of a phase change. In this case, side-B's charge is supposed to go into the air. However, this phase change is immediately interrupted by the ground. The invincibility frames given by the release then extends for the duration of the move. Performing a turnaround will create a 'new' SDR and turn off the invincibility frames. The reason behind the naming of this technique as 'air dash' is that when Sonic rolls off some edges, he will roll horizontally off the platform, as if he were on an invisible platform.

Old material, undergoing re-write/revision later.
...

-"IN THE AIR" added. Repetitive, yes. But I know that lurkers won't read the whole thing, so I made sure to repeat relevant things in their own individual sections lol.
-I'm wondering on whether or not I should keep the 'color the whole thing' deal that I had from the original version.
-Indents are pretty awesome.
-Prettier/more organized format.
-SDR was updated. Read it. Kinda surprising, yet intuitive (charge = speed, and speed = damage. but charge != damage)
-minor updates/changes done to the other phases.
-Spinshot more concretely explained. Also added "spinshot spin-shot airdash air-dash" for easy searching.
-Airdash being updated...later.


So, newbie and veteran, re-read this mofo. There might be some new things that might surprise you :3

 

[Jim Morrison]

Why does Spinshot never work for me. I either do it too late, or do a Spincharge jump.

EDIT:

UNTESTED: There have been multiple accounts for a phenomenon that I will, for now and forever, dub the OMNOMNOM frames. At some point either right before or during landing, Sonic is in a state where he can "eat" destructible projectiles. Among these projectiles are... boomerangs, arrows, turnips, and fully charged 120%+ aura spheres.

I could test the OMNOMNOM frames.

 

[infomon]

Great job on the update, Tenki.

... figures that should happen, after I was staring at the old OP all night lol

 

[da K.I.D.]

you know how tenki looks alll madd smart and everyone loves him and crap...

thats what happens when you listen to me lolol

 

[Jim Morrison]

you know how tenki looks alll madd smart and everyone loves him and crap...

thats what happens when you listen to me lolol

He uses COLOUR in his posts

 

[infomon]

Yea, and I agree with KID about the thread title. gg.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Step 1 to becoming a winner.

agree with KID. gg.

 

[Tenki]

The only thing I did that I wasn't already planning was the title change.
And the indents, but noone actually suggested indents, and it was more of a 'whoa, I forgot you could do this' thing.

Alright, so hopefully everyone here read the 'changes'. SDR's damage is based on speed, but not necessarily charge, yes?

So I'm wondering if, for the phase changes, the whole phase should be colored in, or if only the title of the phase should be colored.

EDIT:
Also, if you want newbies to read this, click the "rate thread" button up top and give it a 4-5 rating. Stars catch the eye lol.

 

[Camalange]

Rated.

5stars

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

You can give threads stars?

 

[Tenki]

woot, good enough.

Yeah.

You should see it whenever Gimpyfish makes a thread. It's like, auto4-5 star.

We should star all our stickies, so newbs'll be forced to read them lol.

So, how about that color idea?

A)

Spin Dash (SD hop)

Charge: CHARGE DOES NOT AFFECT THE HOP'S DAMAGE OR SPEED.
Remaining Jumps: If you have remaining jumps, can be jump cancelled, allowing you to follow-up with aerials.
Damage: 5-6% constant damage. This phase only has a temporary hitbox that goes away after you go under your starting height. Keep this in mind for when you're using side-B to directly attack opponents.
Knockback: Little knockback/upwards. Positions your opponent for a double jump U-air at about 60%, if you want to get a feel for how high it sends.

Other traits:
- Has invincibility/dodge frames at the beginning of the hop (for about 5 frames after upon release)
- Has higher max air speed than normal jumps.
- Resets vertical and horizontal momentum upon startup.

Phase changes:
- Next: Turns into an SDR as soon as you make contact with the ground.
- Ending the move: Double jumping via [Jump] or [Attack] is the only way to 'get out' of the move. You cannot shield cancel the landing.​

or...
B)

Aerial Spin Charge (ASC):

Charge: CHARGE DOES NOT AFFECT THE DAMAGE NOR SPEED OF THE ASC.
Remaining Jumps: If you have remaining jumps, can be jump cancelled, allowing you to follow-up with aerials.
Damage: This one is really cool. ASC can do multiple hits:
- First hit: 7-11 damage. Damage is based on horizontal velocity, so hold Forward for maximum damage. Likewise, if you hold [Back] and are moving too slowly, you will do less damage or even be able to 'turn off' the hitbox.
- Follow-up hit(s): 7-10 damage. As of now, we're still not sure what changes the damage of the followup hits. You can usually count on the 'worst case' and get the minimum damage from your follow-up hits.
Knockback:
- First hit: High knockback/upwards. This can KO at higher %'s (170-180%+ on grounded opponents)
- Follow-up hit(s): Medium knockback/upwards. Similar, but a little stronger than side-B's knockback. Note that if you hit an opponent with the follow-up hit, it kind of 'kills' the stronger knockback done by the first hit.

Other traits:
- Has higher max air speed than normal jumps.
- Resets horizontal momentum upon startup.

Phase changes:
- Next: Turns into an SDR as soon as you make contact with the ground.
- Ending the move: Holding [shield] as you land will allow you go cancel the move into shield upon landing. While the move is in the air, you can double jump by pressing [Jump] or [Attack] to end it.[/B]​

UNTESTED: There have been multiple accounts for a phenomenon that I will, for now and forever, dub the OMNOMNOM frames. At some point either right before or during landing, Sonic is in a state where he can "eat" destructible projectiles. Among these projectiles are... boomerangs, arrows, turnips, and fully charged 120%+ aura spheres.​

Spin Dash Roll (SDR):

Charge: Charge does affect the speed (and consequently, damage) of the SDR.
Remaining Jumps: Whether or not you have a double jump remaining is still passed onto the next phase. It doesn't exactly affect this part of the move, but keep that in mind. Your remaining jumps aren't renewed until the move ends.
Damage: 7-10 damage. The SDR's damage is based on how fast you're moving! This implies two things: 1) You don't necessarily have to be moving at max speed to do max damage; and 2) If you do a low charge SDR and roll down a hill to speed up, you will do max damage.
Knockback: Very Low knockback/upwards. This move's knockback was purposefully tailored to combo into SDJ/aerial.

Other Traits:
- SDR gains/loses speed when travelling on slopes (goes faster if going down a hill and slower if going up). It's possible to begin a low charge SDR going up a hill, slow down, and speed up going down the hill without any input from you.
- Turn-around (tap/hold [Back] during the SDR):
--- The turn-around does not deal damage until the blue aura comes back.
--- Performing a turn-around "initiates" a 'new' SDR with lower speed. This becomes important in understanding the iSDR (see the bottom of this post for more detail).


Phase changes:
Next: Hitting [Up], [Jump], or [Attack] will shift the move into an SDJ. Alternatively, you can roll off the platform, which shifts the move into the ASC phase.
- Ending the move: There are two ways to 'end' the move from this point.
a) If the 2 second time limit (from release) runs out during the SDR, you will screech stop until momentum stops. This can be very laggy if you're moving quickly, but you can 'slow it down' pre-emptively by beginning a turn-around just before it ends.
b) If you are moving slow enough (for example, slowed down by a hill, or a single charge roll after making contact with one object), you can hit [shield] and cancel the roll!​

​

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

lolwut? Stars aren't showing up on some of them.

 

[Chis]

You should see it whenever Gimpyfish makes a thread. It's like, auto4-5 star.

So true. And rated. What's B)?

 

[Tenki]

So true. And rated. What's B)?

We should make some of them 4 star. all 5 looks too fake lol.

A) is coloring only the 'headers' of the section.
B) is coloring the whole section in.

Cause I think a whole wall of bold white text could be kind of annoying sometimes, and I kind of like the shift from light blue to dark blue lol.

 

[Camalange]

lol, I'm about to 5 star all of our stickies.

Honestly, I'm a little confused by what you're asking Tenki, I just re-read that section twice and I'm not too sure exactly what you're referring to when you say color the "title" or the "whole phase"

Maybe I'm just interpreting something wrong.

EDIT: Just saw posts, just color the title. We don't need that much color >_>

 

[Tenki]

WTFUPDATE!!?1l1!?

Table of Contents
- ACRONYMS
- Phases (updated: 8/24 - "Time Limit")
- Move Properties (ALL UPDATED: 11/17)
- - Charge
- - Spin Dash (SD hop)
- - Aerial Spin Charge (ASC)
- - Spin Dash Roll (SDR)
- - Spin Dash Jump (SDJ)
- Spin Shot
- Air Dash
______
Post 2- Aerial Spin Charge: this move is too good.
- Quick overview on ASC
- Combos don exits! (combo usage and analysis of the ASC)
- - ASC "Simple combo"
- - ASC "Perfect combo"
- - Bonus
______
Post 3- Spin Dash (side-B) and Move Usage
- Spin Dash (side-B) in a nutshell
- - Spin Dash Hop: Approach Tricks! (added 10/14)
- Move Usage (for both side-B and down-B) NEW! 11/17 <-- advanced ;d
- - Overview
- - Spacing
- - Feinting
- - - Double Jump Feint
- - - Ground: Off-rhythm/Delay
- - - Side-B: Charge Cancel
- - - ASC cancel
- - - - - Mid range ASC/"pin"
- Important stuff.
​

hay, wuts this?

 

[Boxob]

ASC is so sexy in Brawl+

Jesus this makes the game so fun.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i would suggest a third option tenk,

color like the first 1-3 words of each bullet or sentance

 

[Tenki]

Eh, I guess that works.

So, you guys should read the new update on the 3rd post. Almost all about mindgames and how to use the cancels to your advantage. Alot of you should be at that point by now, but I guess it just solidifies it and puts it into a sort of 'guide' form.

 

[infomon]

The more you update the OP, the more I have to change my work-in-progress vid tutorial, lolol

Good stuff tho, this extra scrutiny has corrected some err0rz.

 

[SonicX580]

Hey Tenki or anyone else I played regular brawl and I used spin dash and yesterday it was 8% and today it's 9% is there a sweet-spot?

 

[Kinzer]

Nop, it's called move decay.

 

[infomon]

SonicX>9000: SDR can cause anywhere from 4 to 11% damage, depending on its speed. Its speed is affected by the SDR's charge, collisions, sloped platforms, turnarounds slow it down, and it naturally slows down a bit the longer it's out. Additionally, there's stale move decay as Kinzer pointed out.

Immediately out of SC on a flat platform with no stale moves, SDR's first collision can cause between 7 and 10%, depending on charge. Hope this helps.

 

[da K.I.D.]

SonicX>9000: SDR can cause anywhere from 4 to 11% damage, depending on its speed. Its speed is affected by the SDR's charge, collisions, sloped platforms, turnarounds slow it down, and it naturally slows down a bit the longer it's out. Additionally, there's stale move decay as Kinzer pointed out.

Immediately out of SC on a flat platform with no stale moves, SDR's first collision can cause between 7 and 10%, depending on charge. Hope this helps.

sigh... sonic is so complecated, why cant we just have a CG or some broken move that we can spam so that we dont have to spend so much time learning all this resultless crap.

 

[Kinzer]

We have a spammable move, it's called side-taunt.

 

[infomon]

^^ lol good one Kinzer

tho I agree with KID siiiigh.....

Untested: Is it possible cancel a SDR>SDJ with an immediate double jump and get a 'strange effect'?

Can't happen. SDJ forces a small delay before you're allowed to input another Jump. This delay does not apply for doing anything else, like HA, Spring, Airdodge, Aerial......... so basically, they thought of this before we did, and fixed it

 

[da K.I.D.]

what kind of effect were you trying to create, i dont get it

 

[infomon]

Something spinshotty. Spinshot can happen during the transition from one spindash state to another, right? So SDR > SDJ might have worked, or done something else interesting. But it looks like the built around it :/

Tenki: The OP says that SD "hop" does 5-6% damage, but I've only ever seen it do 5%. Is there a way to land it right (oooh 1% moar damage, Sonic 4 top tier lol), or is it an error in the OP?

 

[Boxob]

So uh, if you start a spincharge as you're running off the edge, (Right before you hit the edge) and tap up, you do a grounded down B spinshot.

Amazing I know, no need to thank me.

But yeah, I was trying to see if we could get the same effect as Mario's cape glide. You can't. but you can do a couple of useless things. And by couple, I mean two. You got the grounded DownB spinshot, and if you try it with SideB, and fall off the edge, you can release a spinshot to grab the edge (Fake out kinda sorta not really?)

 

[Tenki]

Something spinshotty. Spinshot can happen during the transition from one spindash state to another, right? So SDR > SDJ might have worked, or done something else interesting. But it looks like the built around it :/

Awe. too bad lol.

cause I was messing around with inputs the other day and with Ganondorf, I found out how to do insta ISJR U-air with him - double tap jump (Draconic Reverse style), U-air, buffer jump+ U-air, repeat. If you don't buffer U-air on the first jump, then he'll perform something that looks like a sh double jump (or is his dj always that low?) on the floor. I was wondering if you could use that kind of double-tap to break the SDR>SDJ limit hahaha.

Tenki: The OP says that SD "hop" does 5-6% damage, but I've only ever seen it do 5%. Is there a way to land it right (oooh 1% moar damage, Sonic 4 top tier lol), or is it an error in the OP?

lol I was wondering about that too, cause I haven't actually paid attention to its damage for a while - I just use it to set up footstools or punish spotdodges. XD

it probably does fractional damage and once in a while hits 6.

It's a minor note, but you can do a 'perfect hop combo', which is kinda what gave me the idea for the ASC perfect combo. land the hop in front, then do the SDR.... yeah.

So uh, if you start a spincharge as you're running off the edge, (Right before you hit the edge) and tap up, you do a grounded down B spinshot.

Amazing I know, no need to thank me.

But yeah, I was trying to see if we could get the same effect as Mario's cape glide. You can't. but you can do a couple of useless things. And by couple, I mean two. You got the grounded DownB spinshot, and if you try it with SideB, and fall off the edge, you can release a spinshot to grab the edge (Fake out kinda sorta not really?)

I'm guessing that works with C-stick left/right, too, cause you roll off while you're charging? I've tried spinshot from the ledge cape-glide style using side-B before. Reverse Side-B off the edge> fake out into edgehog sounds cool though. I've honestly never tried that `.`;

Probably won't do anything, but does Homing Attack have any weird crap like that from the edge?

also, does anyone here ever try using down-B out of run? I'm pretty sure it's alot better for hitting those moments of delay especially from forcing spotdodges/defensive reactions than side-B.

 

[infomon]

lolol

I spent all night messing with this exact sorta stuff. I was about to try and bring up SC-out-of-run somewhere LOL; I like the idea of running up to the edge, then SDJ'ing off quick. It'd be less telegraphed than SC > SDR > SDJ.

Boxob, with the run-downB-off-the-edge, are you sure you're not just using the SDR>ASC transition for the spinshot? That spinshot's gotta be common knowledge, cuz I knew about it enough to have recorded vids of me doing it this morning lol. I still suck at the timing for it, tho.

Also, ASC's hitbox does between 6-11%, afaict. And SDR does between 4-11% depending on its speed, although normally it's from 7-10; you need an artificial boost (ie. a slope) to get it to 11.