What makes Meta Knight better than Snake?

[CaliburChamp]

At one time, I thought of Meta Knight being the best character in the game which was recently. Not many people knew how to play against Meta Knight properly, but I realize, once they do know how to play against Metaknight, Snake becomes the best character in the game. Here is why...

Snake is everything you would want in a character, every aspect of his character is either average to super, with only his recovery being average. He's got heavy weight, a controllable up+b with some super frames for weak attacks, he's only really vulnerable for 1 second while in his recovery then you can immediately air dodge to escape the upcoming attack. He has the most powerful and fast attacks ratio in the game. His jab, f-tilt, up-tilt, and more are all KO moves and they come out QUICK! He has the most powerful projectiles in the game, and they can be spammed, he controls the stage like no other characters can. He can attack after he uses his Up+B. He does the most damage from single moves, like D-air doing 28% and N-air doing about 32% damage. He has the most useful AT, mortar sliding. He has a strong spike with his F-air and it helps him gain a bit of momentum in the air. His up-smash has the farthest reach of any smash attack and it moves up, then down and it does not damage Snake at all when it comes down. Everyone of Snakes moves can KO except for his up+B. He has the most damaging taunts in the game. 4% from a taunt and it's actually a surprise edge guarding move and you can control when you want to release the box over your head, BROKEN! lol. Snake is much harder to approach with his great field control of grenades, C4 and mines and his tilts have a HUGE hitbox. Most of Snakes match ups are in his advantage, he has some neutral and he has some bad match ups, but the bad match ups aren't too hard against Snake, mostly a 60:40 for his worst match up so far being Dedede. Snake only needs to land only a few attacks to add up massive damage. He also has good priority because explosion attacks like grenades, and even his nikitia (side b) can outprioritize other moves. Grenades are a combo breaker move, and can prevent Snake from being comboed or even chaingrabbed.

Please explain your thoughts. Tell me why you agree with me, and why you don't agree with me.

 

[Deoxys]

His matchups are better... You really couldn't figure that out?

 

[pumper]

In my opinion the 3 things that stick out the most are his dominance in priority, little to no lag on start-up moves, and agility (combined with his speed).

 

[CaliburChamp]

His matchups are better... You really couldn't figure that out?

But Snake ***** certain characters harder than MK does. I think they both have around the same amount of good match ups

In my opinion the 3 things that stick out the most are his dominance in priority, little to no lag on start-up moves, and agility (combined with his speed).

That's true, but explosion attacks like grenades have even better priority than mach tornado. Other examples are the Link's bombs.

 

[Nic64]

snake can be chain grab to edge guard ***** by DDD, other than that he is about as good as MK IMO, MK simply has no weaknesses though in terms of other characters. it's also significantly easier for many characters to gay the crap out of snake either though camping or keeping him in the air forever, although with his weight these are usually more annoyances than serious drawbacks

 

[CaliburChamp]

snake can be chain grab to edge guard ***** by DDD, other than that he is about as good as MK IMO, MK simply has no weaknesses though in terms of other characters. it's also significantly easier for many characters to gay the crap out of snake either though camping or keeping him in the air forever, although with his weight these are usually more annoyances than serious drawbacks

That's true. The difference is that Snake can camp back and spam his grenades and set the field up of traps while f-tilting out of shield and he doesn't have to approach. MK has to approach to deal damage, thats the difference.

 

[Eddie G]

They're about even in my eyes, but then again I'm a Peach main so both matchups have their challenges.

 

[K 2]

Snake is really bad in the air. If someone CP's a moving stage (Rainbow Cruise) or "aerial" stage (Norfair), MK is better at adapting than Snake.

MK is the speed demon while Snake is the powerhouse. They both have their strengths and weaknesses, but played against on the characters on a variety of stages, MK would come out on top (slightly) with his better adaptablity and speed.

 

[iRjOn]

At one time, I thought of Meta Knight being the best character in the game which was recently. Not many people knew how to play against Meta Knight properly, but I realize, once they do know how to play against Metaknight, Snake becomes the best character in the game. Here is why...

Snake is everything you would want in a character, every aspect of his character is either average to super, with only his recovery being average. He's got heavy weight, a controllable up+b with some super frames for weak attacks, he's only really vulnerable for 1 second while in his recovery then you can immediately air dodge to escape the upcoming attack. He has the most powerful and fast attacks ratio in the game. His jab, f-tilt, up-tilt, and more are all KO moves and they come out QUICK! He has the most powerful projectiles in the game, and they can be spammed, he controls the stage like no other characters can. He can attack after he uses his Up+B. He does the most damage from single moves, like D-air doing 28% and N-air doing about 32% damage. He has the most useful AT, mortar sliding. He has a strong spike with his F-air and it helps him gain a bit of momentum in the air. His up-smash has the farthest reach of any smash attack and it moves up, then down and it does not damage Snake at all when it comes down. Everyone of Snakes moves can KO except for his up+B. He has the most damaging taunts in the game. 4% from a taunt and it's actually a surprise edge guarding move and you can control when you want to release the box over your head, BROKEN! lol. Snake is much harder to approach with his great field control of grenades, C4 and mines and his tilts have a HUGE hitbox. Most of Snakes match ups are in his advantage, he has some neutral and he has some bad match ups, but the bad match ups aren't too hard against Snake, mostly a 60:40 for his worst match up so far being Dedede. Snake only needs to land only a few attacks to add up massive damage. He also has good priority because explosion attacks like grenades, and even his nikitia (side b) can outprioritize other moves. Grenades are a combo breaker move, and can prevent Snake from being comboed or even chaingrabbed.

Please explain your thoughts. Tell me why you agree with me, and why you don't agree with me.

What makes MK better than Snake even though i dont believe that words fits it but...
Mk's flaws have a less of a chance of being exploted.
Snake is no where near low on lag except tilt wise MK is with all attacks execpt a few smashes , fsmash cough cough, and his b moves which he still lacks lagg on those.
he has a very small hurt box...Snake's hurt box is far from small...

he is alittle faster than Marth
Snakes some what faster than Link...

These are what make MK a more effcient character than Snake.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Snake is really bad in the air. If someone CP's a moving stage (Rainbow Cruise) or "aerial" stage (Norfair), MK is better at adapting than Snake.

MK is the speed demon while Snake is the powerhouse. They both have their strengths and weaknesses, but played against on the characters on a variety of stages, MK would come out on top (slightly) with his better adaptablity and speed.

Snake has good aerials, so he isn't exactly bad in the air. His aerials consist of long range, they come out quick except for F-air and they are all powerful moves. Yeah, Snake has counter stages, the ones you mentioned. MK does too, like Shadow Moses, Pirate Ship.

 

[iRjOn]

Snake has good aerials, so he isn't exactly bad in the air. His aerials consist of long range, they come out quick except for F-air and they are all powerful moves. Yeah, Snake has counter stages, the ones you mentioned. MK does too, like Shadow Moses, Pirate Ship.

But Snakes air game compared to MK still fails

Snakes worst area in his game is off stage and in the air
MK has fewer CPs then Snake

 

[_Phloat_]

Snake is more easily put into a disadvantaged position, and stays there longer, and takes more punishment.

 

[bludhoundz]

Snake has good aerials, so he isn't exactly bad in the air. His aerials consist of long range, they come out quick except for F-air and they are all powerful moves. Yeah, Snake has counter stages, the ones you mentioned. MK does too, like Shadow Moses, Pirate Ship.

He has good aerials, but they all stay out for a while and are punishable upon landing.

MK on the other hand is just as safe in the air as on the ground, if not moreso.

 

[brinboy789]

better aerials, less punishable = MK

better grab game, stronger, better ground game, and lives longer = snake

arguably both very good B moves

 

[Crizthakidd]

mk has a little red button on your controller that makes soo many chars either useless or not even able to compete.

snake is hard to go against but theres a lot you can do against him, and theres many ways to rack up dmg early cuz of his heavyness.

mk has only 5 chars that can be even close to being considered worthy of fighting

snake gets a lot done to him by falco,ddd,rob, and yes mk gives him a hard time if ur not playing stupid

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Let me know when someone learns how to give Snake five jumps and incredible gimping ability.

 

[Nic64]

mk has a little red button on your controller that makes soo many chars either useless or not even able to compete.

tornado spam might be effective against like 3-4 characters, and even then it doesn't make them useless, the move degrades too fast to be used that way XD

That's true. The difference is that Snake can camp back and spam his grenades and set the field up of traps while f-tilting out of shield and he doesn't have to approach. MK has to approach to deal damage, thats the difference.

snake can't force everyone to approach, a lot of campy characters can play that game with him and win. MK has to approach everyone, but then he's not exactly bad at doing that.

snake gets a lot done to him by falco,ddd,rob, and yes mk gives him a hard time if ur not playing stupid

falco and ROB's "advantages" over snake are blown way out of proportion IMO, I think DDD is really the only bad match snake has, everything else is either good or close enough to even. there are actually a few mid tier characters that give my snake more trouble than falco in general...

but yeah, MK is better because no one can gay him that hard except like, bowser's grab release chain on him, and bowser is a character that MK can easily gay right back.

 

[Spin-Dash]

Why Meta Knight is better than Snake.

Down smash. That is all.

 

[magikguy]

not down smash.

 

[basilioyugi]

at big damage mk can insta kill snake with a nade glidetoss to dsmash
and btw snakes recovery can be gimped ,spike, etc
mks recovery its hard to gimp and the glide atack have supreme priority over most moves on the game

 

[Staco]

if snake is in the air its really hard for him to deal with metaknight
meta has got full control then and snake can just try to get down to the bottom, as fast as possible
and up b can be gimped with meta up b

thats why mk can deal with snake

 

[Gindler]

Snake having garbage aerials for one...I've Naired WHILE being caught in his Nair which is always fun. Even just mentioning snake having a spike and not saying it's horrible, you just lost credibility in my eyes.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Snake having garbage aerials for one...I've Naired WHILE being caught in his Nair which is always fun. Even just mentioning snake having a spike and not saying it's horrible, you just lost credibility in my eyes.

Snake's F-air works against some characters, depending on their recovery, so it depends on the match up, it can be useful against one character, and it could be worthless against another character. By saying the move is horrible, that's just ignorance. It's a bad move and a good move, making it mediocre.

 

[Darxmarth23]

He is agile and has amazing gimping abilities. Snake is slow.

 

[brinboy789]

at big damage mk can insta kill snake with a nade glidetoss to dsmash
and btw snakes recovery can be gimped ,spike, etc
mks recovery its hard to gimp and the glide atack have supreme priority over most moves on the game

grenades cant be glide tossed, and MK does at much lower percents then snake. snakes recovery is much more horrible then MK's. glide attack's priority is pretty good, but its not AMAZING

 

[Nic64]

snake's grenades are most definitely glide tossable, I'm probably like one of the only people that play snake that bothers to do it though because the distance for him is so bad XD

 

[Snowstalker]

Meta Knight has better recovery, higher priority overall, is amazing at gimping, and no undeniably bad matchups.

Snake has great camping, range, power, okay recovery, and 6 or 7 bad matchups.

 

[Nic64]

and 6 or 7 bad matchups.

lmao what?

 

[Staco]

bad matchups which the highest is 40:60
haha xD

 

[Deoxys]

Let me know when someone learns how to give Snake five jumps and incredible gimping ability.

Are you sure you're on the right forum? This board is about SSB, where the entire game isn't just about gimping and jumping. <_<

tornado spam might be effective against like 3-4 characters, and even then it doesn't make them useless, the move degrades too fast to be used that way XD

No, it doesn't...

This thread fails so hard I'm not even going to get into the other fallacies in it.

 

[Nic64]

No, it doesn't...

just because you can keep using it doesn't mean that it continues to be your best option...I'm not saying it doesn't help to tornado spam someone like DK into oblivion, just that mixing it up is a good idea since eventually you start doing like 5 or 6% or something ridiculous per tornado

 

[Staco]

its really hard to gimp snake
m2k told some stuff with holding snake at te edge, nair at him, then up b gimp him
it doesnt work
he told it mostly does not work :|

and you cant simply up b snakes up b
snake can bomb hisself, if mk is too close to cypher to the stage

snake can hold granads and so on

 

[Infinitysmash]

Dojo likes to hold granads.

 

[Deoxys]

just because you can keep using it doesn't mean that it continues to be your best option...I'm not saying it doesn't help to tornado spam someone like DK into oblivion, just that mixing it up is a good idea since eventually you start doing like 5 or 6% or something ridiculous per tornado

Oh, you're right. Smashwiki lied to me. <_<

I have to stop trusting that terrible resource.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

From my experience and in my opinion Snake is a better character. People always love to look at a characters weaknesses but fail to see that strength can outweigh them.
MK may not have as many weaknesses as Snake does but Snake has more strengths to make up for them. A good example would be their recoveries. Snake's recovery is inferior to MK's no doubt. But Snake can make up for it with heavy weigth + good DI. In MKs case it's different: he has nothing - not even his perfect recovery - that could make up for his low weigth. I think many people forget that MK - despite his lack of big weaknesses - still has limits. And personally, I'd say Snake's limit is good amounts higher than MK's.

Think about him like Melee Fox: On low levels Marth or Sheik may be better and Fox may have more neutral match-up's than them but on high levels things change. Even if Marth wins the most tournaments in Melee Fox is considered the best character in the game. Why? Because he has the most potential: A perfectly played Fox is almost impossible to defeat but it's probably easier to be good with Marth or Sheik.

I think MK and Snake relate in the same way. It's easy to become good with MK and on a lower level MK (and perhaps G&W) is much more dominant than Snake. But once the level of competition rises so will the player's skills. And that's when Snake's strengths will start to outweigh his weaknesses by a large amount - much more than MK can. If you don't trust me on this one you should fight a Snake who Dthrow chases you to 50% from one grab. This is half a stock. And much more broken than anything MK has. The only moves of MK that are truly broken are the shuttle loop and the dtilt but Snake has Utilt, ftilt, dthrow (and basically his whole grab game), mortar slide and also hardcore nade camping on his side, so nobody should complain about MK being broken - it's just easier to win with a bad or mediocre MK than with a bad or mediocre Snake.

People also underrate the fact that players - even on top level - make mistakes. This is something that people fail to see: Even the best players make mistakes. MK can barely afford to make a mistake, Snake can. Against MK it's not as bad to make a mistake than against Snake. I think that a perfectly played Snake can **** a perfectly played MK - we just aren't on such a high level in Brawl yet.

 

[Deoxys]

If you don't trust me on this one you should fight a Snake who Dthrow chases you to 50% from one grab. This is half a stock. And much more broken than anything MK has. The only moves of MK that are truly broken are the shuttle loop and the dtilt but Snake has Utilt, ftilt, dthrow (and basically his whole grab game), mortar slide and also hardcore nade camping on his side, so nobody should complain about MK being broken - it's just easier to win with a bad or mediocre MK than with a bad or mediocre Snake.

People also underrate the fact that players - even on top level - make mistakes. This is something that people fail to see: Even the best players make mistakes. MK can barely afford to make a mistake, Snake can. Against MK it's not as bad to make a mistake than against Snake. I think that a perfectly played Snake can **** a perfectly played MK - we just aren't on such a high level in Brawl yet.

You say this as if I have to let Snake Dthrow chase me. I don't. The best option is not to roll. The only reasons to roll are if a hazarad is coming or to mindgame. Every other time a knowledgable player is dthrown, they will either do a get-up attack or just get up in place. When this happens, the Snake can do either of two things: attack if they expect a regular get-up, or try to perfect shield a get-up attack and then punish. If the Snake player predicts correctly, they punish you, otherwise, you punish them (at least with most characters you do). It's not like a dthrow = 50% against a good player. I guess, theoretically, if they were perfect, they would always predict correctly, and each dthrow would indeed = like 35%.

Also, there will never be a perfectly played MK or Snake. If there ever is, it will only be for one match out of each f***ton.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Are you sure you're on the right forum? This board is about SSB, where the entire game isn't just about gimping and jumping. <_<

I posted 'two' of Metaknight's advantages over Snake and you're acting like for some reason I don't recognize his other amazing capabilities. For some reason this is 'everything about the game.' You aren't even one of those sly trolls, you're just an idiot who deliberately misrepresents people.

You are an idiot, and nobody likes you. Shut up and go away, and lose some weight, fat fatty fattington.

 

[Nic64]

actually snake can regrab you even without perfect shielding if he walks into you slowly and then shields when you move, if snake does this the only way he doesn't get at least an ftilt out of it is if you roll away. but yeah, a snake with ESP would be pretty ****ing broken?

 

[CaliburChamp]

From my experience and in my opinion Snake is a better character. People always love to look at a characters weaknesses but fail to see that strength can outweigh them.
MK may not have as many weaknesses as Snake does but Snake has more strengths to make up for them. A good example would be their recoveries. Snake's recovery is inferior to MK's no doubt. But Snake can make up for it with heavy weigth + good DI. In MKs case it's different: he has nothing - not even his perfect recovery - that could make up for his low weigth. I think many people forget that MK - despite his lack of big weaknesses - still has limits. And personally, I'd say Snake's limit is good amounts higher than MK's.

Think about him like Melee Fox: On low levels Marth or Sheik may be better and Fox may have more neutral match-up's than them but on high levels things change. Even if Marth wins the most tournaments in Melee Fox is considered the best character in the game. Why? Because he has the most potential: A perfectly played Fox is almost impossible to defeat but it's probably easier to be good with Marth or Sheik.

I think MK and Snake relate in the same way. It's easy to become good with MK and on a lower level MK (and perhaps G&W) is much more dominant than Snake. But once the level of competition rises so will the player's skills. And that's when Snake's strengths will start to outweigh his weaknesses by a large amount - much more than MK can. If you don't trust me on this one you should fight a Snake who Dthrow chases you to 50% from one grab. This is half a stock. And much more broken than anything MK has. The only moves of MK that are truly broken are the shuttle loop and the dtilt but Snake has Utilt, ftilt, dthrow (and basically his whole grab game), mortar slide and also hardcore nade camping on his side, so nobody should complain about MK being broken - it's just easier to win with a bad or mediocre MK than with a bad or mediocre Snake.

People also underrate the fact that players - even on top level - make mistakes. This is something that people fail to see: Even the best players make mistakes. MK can barely afford to make a mistake, Snake can. Against MK it's not as bad to make a mistake than against Snake. I think that a perfectly played Snake can **** a perfectly played MK - we just aren't on such a high level in Brawl yet.

You just won this thread! *_*

I really think this is true. Snake can afford to mess up more than MK could, There are only a few moves of MK that is hard to punish not every move of MK. <.<

 

[DMG]

Snake would only be better than MK if he was perfect with Dthrow (Although you could also say that someone could be perfect at escaping from Dthrow). Otherwise he can't compete at the same level as MK.

MK is a better overall character than Snake because he is safer. When Snake does a move, he is usually pretty committed to that move. His tilts, his smashes, his aerials, even pulling a grenade out has a certain time frame that he is stuck with it in his hand before he can shield drop it or toss it. MK just doesn't have the same commitment on most of his moves compared to Snake. It is also harder to put MK in a bad position, where as Snake has to work his butt off on getting back to the ground safely once someone tosses him upwards or when he is forced to recover. You have to use C4, B reversed Grenades, aerials, etc. MK doesn't have to bother with that when he gets sent upwards or has to recover, it's actually dangerous for a lot of characters to even try to edgeguard MK.

In short, MK is faster and safer overall. He may not **** certain characters as hardcore as Snake can, but MK also doesn't have the same weaknesses that characters can universally take advantage of like they do to Snake.