What I'm thinking right now about Sheik
Topic 5: Why Fair when you can Stomp?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHa6De07Qz8
I don't think it ever been tested but I'm starting to think that the back air is actually stronger?
note: the back air im talking about is the one that sends them behind u. It usually occurs when u use the lower feet and come out in the beginning. It's not an unsweetspot bair cause that's the one where you hit with the strong hit box part but too late so it's weaker. This hit box have its own knock back and sweetspot. It will be stronger if hit right away and weaker as the move stays out aka sex kick
since it's a special kind of back air, I suggest we come up with a name for it. For now I'll just call it Stomp since she's stomping them with one leg? (I dunno)
First of all lets look at the obvious:
- Both Stomp and Fair send opponents horizontally and about the same angle
- Stomp does more damage than Fair (11% vs 9%)
- Stomp hit box comes out 1 frame before Fair
- Fair have more range than Stomp by a good margin
- Fair have less lag than Stomp and can be auto cancel more late
With that aside, I personally think that Stomp is actually a better move than Fair at a lot of situation. I will now bring up 3 scenarios. These are just simple scenario and many more exist.
Scenario 1: Edge guarding goodness
So let say you're fighting Falco. You are both at a high percentage and you are grabbing the edge while he's on the stage. Being inpatient, the Falco decide to do a forward smash towards the edge in hope that you get up and take the hit, thus probably getting KO. Of course, being too good with Sheik, you dodge the move and now have the advantage. What do you do? Fair and Nair are too weak and will not kill. Uair is also weak and will not kill if he di it. So what do we have left? Dair? I guess, if you wanna die. Walljump/ Reverse needle cancel Bair? Sure if you want them to survive like Nair/Fair. So what left? Stomp! If you hit them correctly, Falco will fly behind you and is now instantly off the stage! What's more is that compare to other aerials, you are automatically edguarding the edge too! Wow this is too good!
But wait! Stomp is only about as strong as Fair! So how are they going to die? Besides the fact that one of Sheik main point is edge guarding and thus Stomp giving a perfect setup for it, you also have to account the Falco's DI.
WARNING! This part is hypothetical and doesn't have to happen. Yes it will probably be true but a super smart player who knows about the Stomp will somehow DI it correctly.
So, Falco just miss and he's 90%, being a good smasher, when you are vulnerable, you gotta prepare for the opponent to retaliate and attack you. Know that you are on the left and Sheik is on the right with the option of fair, nair, and uair, you will be DIing up and right to survive the hits. People DI moves even when they know it's not going kill them because it become second nature to them. But what's this? Stomp? Did sheik just use a move that send me behind her from the edge? Dang Sheik is too good! Oh on! I'm holding up and right so I'm helping it! Aww, I just kill myself =(
With this scenario, you can see that Stomp can turn your defensive game into an offensive game instantly. It also set up for edge guarding and other good setups for Sheik. The Stomp is as powerful as a Fair so you can be sure that it will take some people out. Especially when they DI wrong from expecting another aerial.
Scenario 2: Snake's Cypher too buff? No problem!
As you know, Snake's Cypher have super armor for anymore 7% or lower. After hitting Snake with Fair about 3 or 4 times, your Fair will be decay and wont knock him off anymore. So what now? Well you can Stomp him! This move is strong enough to take Snake's cypher away and still give up a good advantage vs him. Also, when fight any1, you sometime wants to hit with a Stomp to send them behind you while you both are recovering. It's a good tactic and no one will expect it. This move also hit below Sheik faster than any aerial she have.
Scenario 3: Need to hit below you? Stomp got you cover
As mention before, Stomp hits below you cause of how Sheik extends her legs. IMO, this might actually be Sheik's best aerial from coming down the air. Dair is good too but more of a get down there quick. This is more of a battle vs the opponent. If it connects, it will also send them behind you and again, give you the set up for edge guarding.
I can go on and on about Stomp being good at certain scenario. Whether it's Stomping a Marth after he Upb or Stomp oos to psych out your opponent, this move is too good. Implement it to your game and no one will see it coming.
REQUEST: Can some1 test the power of Stomp vs Fair? From what I can tell, Stomp seems to be stronger for sure. Yet, I want a proven fact before I go around and tell that to people.
Thank you for your time
Topic 4: Reverse edge guarding
So I went to a tourney recently and I figure something out that I didn't really thought about which is reverse edge guarding.
So I was fighting Havok's Marth with Sheik and keep trying to edge guard me by jumping out and try to fair me while I return. Being a good player, he realizes that he out ranges me and I can't fair him. If I air dodge he just waits for my animation to end the fair. So he was beating me up while I return pretty badly. I took his first stock though and then I had 150% ish and he had like 5%. He hit me off the stage again and I was like here we go again. This time though, I had a different game plan. I'm going to edge guard him instead! So what I did was slowly falling down moving back and forth to space him in the air. As soon as I saw him use his second jump though, I immediately side b and chain the edge. Thus going pass him and is now behind him. Since he use his second jump, he had no choice but to up b back and I just pull up my chain when he up b and kill him instead. After that, he never come out to edge guard me again woot.
After that, I fought another marth player JameZ and I did the same trick. This time, it was on purpose. I just stood still and he fsmash me when he came back down. I force him to double jump then I grab the edge with side b. Bam he's dead. It shock him so bad cause he was edguarding me not the other way around haha. I then fought more people in tourney and friendlies and apply this against them. It works so freaking well. It works better in tourney condition though cause people want to kill u so badly. It even work on Kirby after i make him try to back air me a bunch of time and miss. Just gotta count the jump.
So yeah. Reverse edguarding. Force them to take out all of their recovery option themselves and then chain the edge. They will then have to come back instead now and you just gotta be smart and edge guard the edge. Even if they didn't die after using their recovery move, you can still punish them from their lag. It works great on Marth and G&W from my experience so far.
Topic 3: Armada is too good
Topic 2: Why are we throwing people? Just look at them in the eyes!
So yeah, I was watching some old vids not that long ago and was wondering about how to kill people better. This vid came up and it make me realize something, but let me show u the vid first:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i85euqQhlS4&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCJYB1ZuhtA&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWjFS8Kn6nc&feature=channel_page
The last one being what I'm talking about. I mean, LOOK AT HOW MANY PEOPLE WE CAN AIR RELEASE DACUS OFF OF! That is just too good! So what I was thinking about is, when they are DACUS killing % and we get a grab, why do we throw them? Technically speaking it doesn't really lead to anything guarantee if they DI the throw right. Sure I get some back throw to back air sometime when they di bad and I kill them but this strategy is better I think.
If you get a grab on them, DO NOT throw them and pray for an air release! If you can make them air release then that means a guarantee kill move if you perform the DACUS right! You might say, what happen if they don't air release though? Well, they'll ground release instead of course. This is a trade off and a risk you have to take. Throw them for about 7% and maybe land an aerial or hope that they air release and get a DACUS. Fail the air release and they will ground release. Which doesn't hurt you that much when you think about it. You're not in any disadvantage at all if they don't air release. You just won't get a DACUS from it anymore.
So what I'm saying is, we should really force people who normally ground break to air break instead! If we can do that, we can force like 10+ chars. to get hit by our DACUS! Even Snake & DeDeDe who are a pain to kill sometime. So the real question is: How can we trick them to air release?
From what I understand, people will air release if they break from your grab with the jump command and when you are not pummeling. These condition are very strict but still possible. I mean, I do this all the time when I do Fox vs Mk since Fox gets an usmash after the air release woot =)
Here are some tricks that I have learn to force an air release:
1. Pummel in the beginning to make them feel insecure. Make them feel that "This freaking Sheik is elbowing the crap outta me and I gotta get out asap before I get more damage." Then, stop when you feel that they are going to break out soon. People will not react fast enough and will keep mashing button for a bit before they realize you stop pummeling.
2. Make a scene about it! I don't mean like yelling out "I''m going to push A so fast that my freaking button is going to explode!" Just push it as fast as you can and make him feel like you really wanna pummel as long as you can. Then, when they fall for ur act, you can stop immediately and bam! 1 air release coming up!
3. Save the air release until the very end. I know you can air release to DACUS whenever you want for extra damage but don't expose it! Knowing is half the battle and I highly doubt that many people know Sheik can DACUS so many freaking people from the air release. If you do it instantly like when they are 30%, a good player will realize it and won't give you that air release ever again. This happen to me when I fought Havok Fox vs Mk. He realize that I can air release up smash him and stop giving me the opportunity to after I land it. So, SAVE IT UNTIL YOU KNOW IT WILL KILL!
That's all I really wanna say. Don't throw your opponent. Stare at them with that crazy Sheik eyes and prepare to DACUS for the kill. I been doing this recently and it give me a lot more kills now on unexpected players. I love it now when Falco counter pick on FD and I just DACUS him easier now for the kill. So remember, trick them to air release and get that kill you been waiting for!
Topic 1: Falco - Final Destination or Jun Japes?
Something that I was wondering randomly just now. I'm going to make this thread my: What am I thinking right now about Sheik
Usually and almost 100% of the time, after you beat Falco first round or second round, he's going to counter pick Final Destination or Jungle Japes. How he determine that is base on what you ban. If you ban FD then here comes JJ and vice versa.
So, here's my question to all of you guys: Where should we take Falco to? Final Destination or Jungle Japes. We're pretty much deciding it for the Falco players when you think about it.
As for me, I usually ban JJ over FD. My reason is pretty much like this:
FD:
-pros
Can gimp Falco
Duck under laser to avoid camping
big stage and can needle camp back
small blast zone to JJ so u can kill Falco earlier
-cons
easier for falco to edge guard us compare to JJ
he can side b over and over which makes it very annoying
chain grab spike works well here
JJ
-pros
easier to recover
platforms to maneuver and such
can't die up top from his up smash until a very long time
-cons
chain grab spike into water can equal death
hard to gimp since he can just jump out of water
side b all over the place
harder to avoid lasers sometime
That's just the basic. I always just ban JJ and go to FD because I'm thinking that on FD I can gimp him and don't have to worry about being camp that much. I'm kinda scare of JJ cause harder to gimp and his chain grab is deadlier. What do you guys think though?
This is like something kinda inevitable when you fight Falco. From all the Falco I ever fought, these are the two stages they go to and I always take them to FD. Sometime I win there and sometime I don't. So yeah, what do you guys think?
btw, I know the Falco match up very well. I fought both SK92 and DEHF before taking them to Game 3 each (fought DEHF like just last week). It's a very fun match up and it feel so good to gimp them haha (probably why I rather go to FD).
Verdict: Final Destination all da way
Topic 5: Why Fair when you can Stomp?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHa6De07Qz8
I don't think it ever been tested but I'm starting to think that the back air is actually stronger?
note: the back air im talking about is the one that sends them behind u. It usually occurs when u use the lower feet and come out in the beginning. It's not an unsweetspot bair cause that's the one where you hit with the strong hit box part but too late so it's weaker. This hit box have its own knock back and sweetspot. It will be stronger if hit right away and weaker as the move stays out aka sex kick
since it's a special kind of back air, I suggest we come up with a name for it. For now I'll just call it Stomp since she's stomping them with one leg? (I dunno)
First of all lets look at the obvious:
- Both Stomp and Fair send opponents horizontally and about the same angle
- Stomp does more damage than Fair (11% vs 9%)
- Stomp hit box comes out 1 frame before Fair
- Fair have more range than Stomp by a good margin
- Fair have less lag than Stomp and can be auto cancel more late
With that aside, I personally think that Stomp is actually a better move than Fair at a lot of situation. I will now bring up 3 scenarios. These are just simple scenario and many more exist.
Scenario 1: Edge guarding goodness
So let say you're fighting Falco. You are both at a high percentage and you are grabbing the edge while he's on the stage. Being inpatient, the Falco decide to do a forward smash towards the edge in hope that you get up and take the hit, thus probably getting KO. Of course, being too good with Sheik, you dodge the move and now have the advantage. What do you do? Fair and Nair are too weak and will not kill. Uair is also weak and will not kill if he di it. So what do we have left? Dair? I guess, if you wanna die. Walljump/ Reverse needle cancel Bair? Sure if you want them to survive like Nair/Fair. So what left? Stomp! If you hit them correctly, Falco will fly behind you and is now instantly off the stage! What's more is that compare to other aerials, you are automatically edguarding the edge too! Wow this is too good!
But wait! Stomp is only about as strong as Fair! So how are they going to die? Besides the fact that one of Sheik main point is edge guarding and thus Stomp giving a perfect setup for it, you also have to account the Falco's DI.
WARNING! This part is hypothetical and doesn't have to happen. Yes it will probably be true but a super smart player who knows about the Stomp will somehow DI it correctly.
So, Falco just miss and he's 90%, being a good smasher, when you are vulnerable, you gotta prepare for the opponent to retaliate and attack you. Know that you are on the left and Sheik is on the right with the option of fair, nair, and uair, you will be DIing up and right to survive the hits. People DI moves even when they know it's not going kill them because it become second nature to them. But what's this? Stomp? Did sheik just use a move that send me behind her from the edge? Dang Sheik is too good! Oh on! I'm holding up and right so I'm helping it! Aww, I just kill myself =(
With this scenario, you can see that Stomp can turn your defensive game into an offensive game instantly. It also set up for edge guarding and other good setups for Sheik. The Stomp is as powerful as a Fair so you can be sure that it will take some people out. Especially when they DI wrong from expecting another aerial.
Scenario 2: Snake's Cypher too buff? No problem!
As you know, Snake's Cypher have super armor for anymore 7% or lower. After hitting Snake with Fair about 3 or 4 times, your Fair will be decay and wont knock him off anymore. So what now? Well you can Stomp him! This move is strong enough to take Snake's cypher away and still give up a good advantage vs him. Also, when fight any1, you sometime wants to hit with a Stomp to send them behind you while you both are recovering. It's a good tactic and no one will expect it. This move also hit below Sheik faster than any aerial she have.
Scenario 3: Need to hit below you? Stomp got you cover
As mention before, Stomp hits below you cause of how Sheik extends her legs. IMO, this might actually be Sheik's best aerial from coming down the air. Dair is good too but more of a get down there quick. This is more of a battle vs the opponent. If it connects, it will also send them behind you and again, give you the set up for edge guarding.
I can go on and on about Stomp being good at certain scenario. Whether it's Stomping a Marth after he Upb or Stomp oos to psych out your opponent, this move is too good. Implement it to your game and no one will see it coming.
REQUEST: Can some1 test the power of Stomp vs Fair? From what I can tell, Stomp seems to be stronger for sure. Yet, I want a proven fact before I go around and tell that to people.
Thank you for your time
Topic 4: Reverse edge guarding
So I went to a tourney recently and I figure something out that I didn't really thought about which is reverse edge guarding.
So I was fighting Havok's Marth with Sheik and keep trying to edge guard me by jumping out and try to fair me while I return. Being a good player, he realizes that he out ranges me and I can't fair him. If I air dodge he just waits for my animation to end the fair. So he was beating me up while I return pretty badly. I took his first stock though and then I had 150% ish and he had like 5%. He hit me off the stage again and I was like here we go again. This time though, I had a different game plan. I'm going to edge guard him instead! So what I did was slowly falling down moving back and forth to space him in the air. As soon as I saw him use his second jump though, I immediately side b and chain the edge. Thus going pass him and is now behind him. Since he use his second jump, he had no choice but to up b back and I just pull up my chain when he up b and kill him instead. After that, he never come out to edge guard me again woot.
After that, I fought another marth player JameZ and I did the same trick. This time, it was on purpose. I just stood still and he fsmash me when he came back down. I force him to double jump then I grab the edge with side b. Bam he's dead. It shock him so bad cause he was edguarding me not the other way around haha. I then fought more people in tourney and friendlies and apply this against them. It works so freaking well. It works better in tourney condition though cause people want to kill u so badly. It even work on Kirby after i make him try to back air me a bunch of time and miss. Just gotta count the jump.
So yeah. Reverse edguarding. Force them to take out all of their recovery option themselves and then chain the edge. They will then have to come back instead now and you just gotta be smart and edge guard the edge. Even if they didn't die after using their recovery move, you can still punish them from their lag. It works great on Marth and G&W from my experience so far.
Topic 3: Armada is too good
Topic 2: Why are we throwing people? Just look at them in the eyes!
So yeah, I was watching some old vids not that long ago and was wondering about how to kill people better. This vid came up and it make me realize something, but let me show u the vid first:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i85euqQhlS4&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCJYB1ZuhtA&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWjFS8Kn6nc&feature=channel_page
The last one being what I'm talking about. I mean, LOOK AT HOW MANY PEOPLE WE CAN AIR RELEASE DACUS OFF OF! That is just too good! So what I was thinking about is, when they are DACUS killing % and we get a grab, why do we throw them? Technically speaking it doesn't really lead to anything guarantee if they DI the throw right. Sure I get some back throw to back air sometime when they di bad and I kill them but this strategy is better I think.
If you get a grab on them, DO NOT throw them and pray for an air release! If you can make them air release then that means a guarantee kill move if you perform the DACUS right! You might say, what happen if they don't air release though? Well, they'll ground release instead of course. This is a trade off and a risk you have to take. Throw them for about 7% and maybe land an aerial or hope that they air release and get a DACUS. Fail the air release and they will ground release. Which doesn't hurt you that much when you think about it. You're not in any disadvantage at all if they don't air release. You just won't get a DACUS from it anymore.
So what I'm saying is, we should really force people who normally ground break to air break instead! If we can do that, we can force like 10+ chars. to get hit by our DACUS! Even Snake & DeDeDe who are a pain to kill sometime. So the real question is: How can we trick them to air release?
From what I understand, people will air release if they break from your grab with the jump command and when you are not pummeling. These condition are very strict but still possible. I mean, I do this all the time when I do Fox vs Mk since Fox gets an usmash after the air release woot =)
Here are some tricks that I have learn to force an air release:
1. Pummel in the beginning to make them feel insecure. Make them feel that "This freaking Sheik is elbowing the crap outta me and I gotta get out asap before I get more damage." Then, stop when you feel that they are going to break out soon. People will not react fast enough and will keep mashing button for a bit before they realize you stop pummeling.
2. Make a scene about it! I don't mean like yelling out "I''m going to push A so fast that my freaking button is going to explode!" Just push it as fast as you can and make him feel like you really wanna pummel as long as you can. Then, when they fall for ur act, you can stop immediately and bam! 1 air release coming up!
3. Save the air release until the very end. I know you can air release to DACUS whenever you want for extra damage but don't expose it! Knowing is half the battle and I highly doubt that many people know Sheik can DACUS so many freaking people from the air release. If you do it instantly like when they are 30%, a good player will realize it and won't give you that air release ever again. This happen to me when I fought Havok Fox vs Mk. He realize that I can air release up smash him and stop giving me the opportunity to after I land it. So, SAVE IT UNTIL YOU KNOW IT WILL KILL!
That's all I really wanna say. Don't throw your opponent. Stare at them with that crazy Sheik eyes and prepare to DACUS for the kill. I been doing this recently and it give me a lot more kills now on unexpected players. I love it now when Falco counter pick on FD and I just DACUS him easier now for the kill. So remember, trick them to air release and get that kill you been waiting for!
Topic 1: Falco - Final Destination or Jun Japes?
Something that I was wondering randomly just now. I'm going to make this thread my: What am I thinking right now about Sheik
Usually and almost 100% of the time, after you beat Falco first round or second round, he's going to counter pick Final Destination or Jungle Japes. How he determine that is base on what you ban. If you ban FD then here comes JJ and vice versa.
So, here's my question to all of you guys: Where should we take Falco to? Final Destination or Jungle Japes. We're pretty much deciding it for the Falco players when you think about it.
As for me, I usually ban JJ over FD. My reason is pretty much like this:
FD:
-pros
Can gimp Falco
Duck under laser to avoid camping
big stage and can needle camp back
small blast zone to JJ so u can kill Falco earlier
-cons
easier for falco to edge guard us compare to JJ
he can side b over and over which makes it very annoying
chain grab spike works well here
JJ
-pros
easier to recover
platforms to maneuver and such
can't die up top from his up smash until a very long time
-cons
chain grab spike into water can equal death
hard to gimp since he can just jump out of water
side b all over the place
harder to avoid lasers sometime
That's just the basic. I always just ban JJ and go to FD because I'm thinking that on FD I can gimp him and don't have to worry about being camp that much. I'm kinda scare of JJ cause harder to gimp and his chain grab is deadlier. What do you guys think though?
This is like something kinda inevitable when you fight Falco. From all the Falco I ever fought, these are the two stages they go to and I always take them to FD. Sometime I win there and sometime I don't. So yeah, what do you guys think?
btw, I know the Falco match up very well. I fought both SK92 and DEHF before taking them to Game 3 each (fought DEHF like just last week). It's a very fun match up and it feel so good to gimp them haha (probably why I rather go to FD).
Verdict: Final Destination all da way
