What do you think of aerial throws?

[TDub301]

I think if they added air grabbing and gave you priority and your second jump back, if you managed to break out of it, it would make air battling way more expandable. And up air throws wouldn't be pointless, let's say you're close to the upper end of the board and you want to ko your opponent. Grab them in the air at the top of the board then throw them up, it would be just enough to send them into the background (maybe). This adds depth to the game and gives more options, that's why I like it. Would it hurt the whole shuffling technique? Yes, but so what? new techniques will form from it and that's what we need in a new game. We'd get into it more if it had some different techniques to learn and master than the same exact ones from the last game.

 

[dizzy]

I really don't see what the huge fuss is about with edgeguarding. If you can air throw an opponent downward, so what? Most characters in SSBM already have spikes. A downward air throw would be the equivalent of a spike. The developers could even just make the **** things meteor-cancellable and there would be no difference at all. It's not like air grabbing would be ridiculously easy, either - it would take as much spacing and timing as a regular aerial attack, if not more, and it wouldn't even necessarily be stronger than a regular aerial attack. Plus, opponents regain all of their mid-air jumps as soon as you grab them, so if you don't outright kill the opponent with the air throw, he can recover more easily than if you had used a regular aerial attack to edgeguard.

As for suicide tactics like Kirby's forward throw, just allow the victim to naturally break out at some point in the throw. Say, the higher your damage, the longer it takes for you to break out, so the suicide throw wouldn't work unless you're at high damage anyway. If Kirby tries to use it at 0%, you break out almost immediately while Kirby plunges to his death. At 50%, you break out a little later, but Kirby dies, and you'll probably be able to recover. At 100%, you can't break out quickly enough and both of you die, but using a suicide throw when the target is at 100% is Kirby's loss, not yours. If you're at 100%, Kirby could spare his own life and kill you with any other attack.

 

[TDub301]

Thank you Dizzy, that's what I was trying to say a few posts back. So what? If the person is good enough with the air throws, whether they are doing the grabbing or being grabbed (that sounds so dirty) it could work out to their advantage. Oh, but that getting their jumps back thing was an idea I added just to make aerial battles more likely to happen and balance air throws a little. That the stakes of attempting one may outweigh the benefits so only good players or stupid players would probably even try air throws to begin with. That way it wouldn't be a big problem that people complained about.

 

[dizzy]

Oh, but that getting their jumps back thing was an idea I added just to make aerial battles more likely to happen and balance air throws a little. That the stakes of attempting one may outweigh the benefits so only good players or stupid players would probably even try air throws to begin with. That way it wouldn't be a big problem that people complained about.

There are a few air throws in SSBM already, like Falcon's up b. If you throw the opponent in the air with those attacks, they get their jumps back, so it's not a new feature.

 

[TDub301]

True, very true, I forgot about that. Good point. So I think that would be the real balancing part of aerial throws that adds strategy to it.

 

[Dreadlord Santa]

Ah, this thread reminds me of Guilty Gear ^_^ Aerial throws in the game were cool, but not all that useful, really. Of course, Guilty Gear is also a completely different game from Smash, but even so, I think having the ability to chuck someone out of the air would be pretty cool. I like the idea of Down throws being like meteor smashes, though hopefully they wouldn't be as strong. It would be a fun addition to have, though I of course have no idea how it would be made balanced.

 

[Majora731]

If air grabs were enabled I think I should count as a third jump, so if you miss you fall to the ground or to your death.

 

[TDub301]

I'd go for that, another way to balance them

 

[FooTemps]

all those only balance edge related problems.

The ground vs air (aka, defense vs offense) game is still completely unbalanced if airgrabs were introduced.

 

[TDub301]

Please explain, how do those only apply to edgeguarding?

 

[wakerofthewinds]

If air grabs were enabled I think I should count as a third jump, so if you miss you fall to the ground or to your death.

I agree. If this didnt happen, it would be considered "cheap" by some. You would be able to counter anything! The big N should think about this.

 

[dj asakura]

i'm ok with the idea of it counting as a 3rd jump but i can see it being fine either way.

personally i hope it doesnt, there will be ways to counter it clearly and besdies, grabs dont have a huge range to begin with so it'd be fine.


and also, as much as i love guilty gear, i almost detest hearing it mentioned in relation to smash because GG is teh most horribly unblanced game ever. Sol and Ky for God-tier anyone...thats right, you heard me, un frikin beatable...

stupid over and under balancing

 

[SmashMac]

Lolz that'd be cool to have aerial throws. But in that case, why not aerial "body" techs? Grab the opponent in and tech off them. Maybe something for teams lolz?

 

[Wave Bird]

Cool Idea.

Easily Abused.

 

[Sethlon]

The ground vs air (aka, defense vs offense) game is still completely unbalanced if airgrabs were introduced.

A guy briefly mentioned something earlier in the thread, but no one said anything more about it...
It could be made that air grabs could only work on an aerial opponent. That way, if they try to jump at a shielding opponent and grab them, it just misses, or something like that. It would make it so shielding and shield grabbing are still a major defense.

 

[BAMF]

Thanx everyone for their input, alot of u brought up some good points i didn't consider. Personaly i wouldn't like the AG to leave u helpless after executed bc it would ruin further comboing which is a big reason i wanted it. A good idea is that of getting ur jump back after being thrown to prevent spiking. And i really hope that if they do have AG that u could throw down cuz that would be the easiest to combo with imo.

As for balancing it we got: Can only AG ppl in the air, easier to break out of, get ur jump back after knockback fades, and techable. Plus each character's throws will be different some with more or less knock back, mayb bigger characters a little bit harder to break out of etc. I think with some research and playing around with it could easily be balanced

 

[BAMF]

Ok so now that brawl is out I thought I'd rekindle this thread and see what people think about if it had been added. Personally I think with all the new movement mechanics they added this could have definitely taken the game to a whole new lvl of greatness. It could have definitely been tweaked to balance it out, I mean really they pulled out some things I don't think any of us expected to improve aerial combat. This could of been the kicker to make it as important as ground tactics.

 

[Team Giza]

I don't think this could be hacked in but if worked out correctly it could add a lot to the game. The throws would need to be worked out differently in size and speed to make sure they don't degrade the system, but it should be able to grab through airdodging. You should be forced to perform the throw right after the grab. I think it would work out best if it made it so that it revived one jump of both players. All aerial downthrows should be set knockback.

 

[Project D]

I'm not sure if I could find it in previous posts, but what of Zair of certain characters? Samus, Link, Toon Link, to be honest, I'd like to keep my Samus' normal Zair and reckon only certain characters can do it or something, like only the heavy characters, they are already at the disadvantage of speed and are generally strong enough to turn them ronud and do a piledrive or something, it'd be odd if olimar (no pikmin) was doing that, someone like 1/3 of the most character's height suddenly turnning bowser upside-down then doing a piledrive.
I mean kirby's forward throw already sets up them good enough for multi-combo kicks, stairway to heaven/wall of pain etc. I don't want to face a more annoying kirby -.-

 

[T-block]

It could make for some fun edgeguarding... if it were implemented as said before, it would have to make you free fall though. Otherwise it'd break the game...

 

[Project D]

I still much prefer the current Zair of my Samus to be honest -.-
the Zair range is quite long and I could like grab someone's foot and throw them off the stage if air grabbing was implemented -.-

 

[Punishment Divine]

i'm ok with the idea of it counting as a 3rd jump but i can see it being fine either way.

personally i hope it doesnt, there will be ways to counter it clearly and besdies, grabs dont have a huge range to begin with so it'd be fine.


and also, as much as i love guilty gear, i almost detest hearing it mentioned in relation to smash because GG is teh most horribly unblanced game ever. Sol and Ky for God-tier anyone...thats right, you heard me, un frikin beatable...

stupid over and under balancing

umm GG is the most balanced fighter on the market O.o

Air throws are perfectly fine in that game cause they're situational and the timing is strict.

 

[PHiL Gee]

I say no because:
1. Similar too Street Fighter...
2. It would be too easy if they could just get you off stage, jump, grab you in the air, then as BAMF said just do a suicidal pile drive.

 

[BloodBird]

Yeah, I was thinking about that too. I'm not sure how it would work though, and it might end up being too cheap where you can grab on to your opponent and then fall to your doom off the stage.

Bowser can already do that.

 

[Adetque]

This would cause tons of chaingrabs. Just imagine: Kirby d-throw to grab in midair to grab attack until touch ground to d-throw and repeat.

 

[Jim Morrison]

No.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I imagine that it would have to be far more limited than normal throws. Any one of those that waits to hit the ground would be a deadly suicide attack, any that hit the opponent down a very strong spike. Sending the opponent down at all, in fact, would lead to chaingrabs. To the side? Chaingrabs. The only thing I could imagine would be hitting the opponent up and leading to specialfall-prevents CGs and allows for follow-ups. However, this is rather pointless and would be better off as a gimmick for one char.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

This would be a bad idea.

Everyone would have something similar to DK's cargo throw, just jump off, grab, throw them down, and bam they're dead.

Also WTF @ random bump.

 

[Hiiiiiii]

Wouldn't a character with good recovery (Kirby, Mk) just aerial grab, hold on to them until they just barely hit the death zone, release them, then recover while the opponent plummets to their death?

 

[Project D]

It WILL be utter chaos and the casual players would just spam it all day. nothing fun will come of it for the more competitive players.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Hell, competitive players would spam it all day.

 

[JUDGE]

but what happpens when you throw your opponent down?
would it be like a meteor smash or what?

 

[paterack7]

I like the idea, but that would be insanely difficult to time correctly.

 

[Cook Kirby]

Dislike the idea. There's already too many possible suicide techniques, and adding aerial throws would just jackpot the possible ways to kill someone without any skill.

 

[JUDGE]

Dislike the idea. There's already too many possible suicide techniques, and adding aerial throws would just jackpot the possible ways to kill someone without any skill.

yeah that's right
it would be very easy to kill anyone

 

[Elder Sister]

yeah
it would just make evrything more difficult
i hate suicide techs!!!><

 

[SpongeBathBill]

Yeah, like everybody else, as soon as I read the title I envisioned chaingrabs, and cargo spikes are another problem. Plus although aerial throws have the potential to be cool I suppose, they don't exactly make sense given the current standards of how they're supposed to work.

Now maybe if they had next to no knockback...but no, this would just lead to even worse chaingrabs and cause people to get kills by chasing a chaingrab offstage. That's another reason why GG aerial throws work.

 

[Kamikaze*]

....Bad idea.

 

[JigglyPunch]

I would find great use for this. If I'm going down, you're coming with me.

 

[a male platypus]

Air grabs would be amazing, but it would have to be one of those things they can't screw up ya know? Like for example... Samus and Link, they would have no more Zair? Or they just have a godly grab range mid-air.

I also don't think that the grabs should be like an instant spike, I think they should be: a quick grabbing animation followed by a throw. Each character having their own throw, some up... some forward, some right, some down. But they can't all have spikes to the doom, the character who has the best recovery is just going to go for an aerial grab which could severely harm the next meta game.