What do melee falcon players think of PM Falcon?

[Oro?!]

If you input ntsc gentleman you will get rapid jabs no matter what if you use the A+Z method like I do. Muscle memory is a *****.

 

[Zef]

everything feels way easier in PM, so i like him obvs lol

 

[Ace55]

Yeah I really don't get why he doesn't have PAL gentleman. I spam the hell out of that in melee.

 

[Oro?!]

He does have PAL gentleman.

 

[Shadic]

If you hit, basically.

 

[Revven]

If you whiff, you have to do NTSC.

 

[BTmoney]

He does have PAL gentleman.

Does not compute.

So 3 successful hits and 3 A taps gives you a guaranteed gentleman?

 

[OSCA MIKE]

if you hold the A button after the gentleman he will not do the rapid jabs if you guys didn't already know

don't remember if you have to hit with at least 1 punch in the jab chain to be able to do the "hold A button" thing, but it's there

 

[BTmoney]

No, I know how to genetleman.
Someone was sayin that he had the pal gentleman upon hit and if not (?) the NTSC gentleman.

I seems the exact same as ntsc melee to me unless I am missunderstanding lol

 

[Oro?!]

NTSC gentleman has very strict timing based on the buttons you input. I have forgotten all of the applicable methods, but I use A, A, A+Z. In PAL if you just hit AAA (on hit) you will gentleman 100% easily allowing for the fastest possible gentleman, or even easily being able to space the jabs if you so please.

For clarification if you just hit AAA as fast as it will register in NTSC you WILL get rapid jabs on hit or whiff.

 

[GunBlaze]

PAL Gentleman for Demo 3!

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

In PAL if you just hit AAA (on hit) you will gentleman 100%

It doesn't have to be on hit. Just press A 3 times and youre done.

 

[GunBlaze]

You'd wish.

 

[MonkUnit]

It is PAL Gentlemen on hit and NTSC Gentlemen if you do not hit anything.

 

[Ace55]

He does have PAL gentleman.

No he has a hybrid.

But why make a non broken move on a non-top tier character worse than it is in an official version of melee?

I mean I assume the PMBR is using Yoshi's PAL weight and Kirby's PAL run speed for those two?

 

[GunBlaze]

It is PAL Gentlemen on hit and NTSC Gentlemen if you do not hit anything.

I assume it was made that way so if Capn' mains whiff, they get punished.

 

[MVP]

Been comparing melee falcon with PM falcon yesterday, and PM falcon is slower in a lot of ways compared to melee. His moonwalk is slower and his runspeed is slower.

Also, Suggestion: why not give his knee the same sound effect as lucas' Bair? I feel his knee doesn't pack the same punch as melee. I'm sure the stats or the same but the cinematic isn't. I think that sound effect would greatly help.

 

[standardtoaster]

his run speed matches melee exactly. maybe it's the animation of the run throwing you off?

 

[MVP]

his run speed matches melee exactly. maybe it's the animation of the run throwing you off?

I thinks its that and also the fact that PM/Brawl character models are bigger than melee models

 

[MarioNPinkie]

I think PM and melee's knees are similar but i think melees is a bit stronger but i havent compared the two as of yet in play im just basing this off of memory

 

[BTmoney]

The knee is also the same. He may have brawl techs though. New raptor boost/falcon kick. New gentleman mechanics.

I'm pretty sure that's it

 

[Sixth-Sense]

I'm pretty sure it's also because of the whole 1 frame lag thingy, when i compared the two a couple of days ago, Melee Falcon is much much much faster than PM falcon, but i guess that'll change when everything is done right. I also feel like his knee doesn't pack the same punch it does in melee, i don't know if that could be the way it sends you off, it looks like you stay there for just 1 frame or something, and then boom, in melee you'd get pushed at once.

Someone in the previous page said to change the knee's current sound effect for lucas's bair, i tried it and i think it would actually be much better. Kinda like how for 2.5b the PM team changed pika's Nair sound effect to Falco's dair sound effect.

Even though he's not as fast, i'm starting to really like buffed falcon kick, raptor boost, and reverse x4 falcon punch.

Does anyone here think that because of RAR, moonwalk is just to showoff and has almost no uses except maybe mindgames? (and really janky ones at that)

 

[SpiderMad]

The freeze thing is called hit-lag: in Brawl it was really high, in Melee it was less than Brawl's, in P:M it should match Melee but there's no easy way to check for yourself (You can get the amount of hitlag of P:M falcon with BBox, but getting Melee's is a little more difficult). High hitlag moves give the opponent more time to SDI as well as prepare their DI, with no positive trade-offs besides looking sort of cooler.

 

[DrinkingFood]

No positive trade offs? Easier hit confirmation is a great trade off.

 

[Juggleguy]

Change the knee sound effect to something that isn't a wimpy quiet fizzling sound.

Allow the A+A+Z method to gentleman, as Oro pointed out, a lot of us used that method in Melee and it doesn't transfer over to PM.

 

[Oro?!]

Yo Juggleguy, do you and everyone in MI play PM now? :D

 

[SpiderMad]

No positive trade offs? Easier hit confirmation is a great trade off.

Not familiar with that, I only know it for the one example of whether you want to shine-grab or not from being able to react to whether the shine shield poked them or not. So does Ike benefit from not having the 1/3 hit-lag reduction anymore in any of these hit confirm scenarios?

 

[BTmoney]

Allow the A+A+Z method to gentleman, as Oro pointed out, a lot of us used that method in Melee and it doesn't transfer over to PM.

Uh, that's exactly what I do. It's the only way I gentleman in either game

 

[Kink-Link5]

Not familiar with that, I only know it for the one example of whether you want to shine-grab or not from being able to react to whether the shine shield poked them or not. So does Ike benefit from not having the 1/3 hit-lag reduction anymore in any of these hit confirm scenarios?

Smash hitlag is generally not high enough to really get those kind of hitconfirms in most situations.

Knee is, Zelda toes are, Ness bair is, Ganon Dair. Sometimes I feel like Charizard's tail sweetspots have noticeable hitlag but it's nothing dramatic.

 

[DrinkingFood]

@Mad, what Kink said. The difference for Ike isn't significant in terms of how much easier it is to hit confirm. Ike's hit confirms will mostly be a matter of prediction, and having a lot of range allows you to pretty easily put them in the zone that either guarantees a hit or guarantees you'll miss. The difference for the knee and other moves with electric hitlag is, however. Btw Ike only ever had a 1/2 reduction of hitlag not a 1/3. 1/2 is also what he now has on tippers.

 

[Ace55]

I'm having trouble reverse kneeing people. Could be the model throwing me off.

 

[MVP]

I'm having trouble reverse kneeing people. Could be the model throwing me off.

the character models in PM are bigger then they are in melee. So yes; it throws me off as well

 

[DrinkingFood]

I'm pretty sure they were resized to be melee sized... someone from PMBR should confirm or deconfirm to prevent spread of misinformation.

 

[MVP]

I'm pretty sure they were resized to be melee sized... someone from PMBR should confirm or deconfirm to prevent spread of misinformation.

I heard JC say on his stream that PM/Brawl models were/are slightly bigger than melee models

 

[standardtoaster]

melee characters (except bowser) should be exactly the same size as in melee. magus spent hours on each character getting their sizes correct. falcon's brawl model is probably throwing you off compared to his melee one, then.

 

[Oro?!]

It's the scarf.

 

[5-oNe]

im late but i know against spacies he can chain grab with uthrow them at around the 40-50 percentile up for awhile. atleast until they dont hit the ground and you can knee them. thats if you have the guts to chain grab.lol.

 

[Oro?!]

Falcon can only chaingrab on in DI or no DI from mid-high %s

 

[arata18]

I have had very minimal difficulty adjusting to the captian falcon in pm. I haven't played a lot of competative matches either in pm or in melee but I notice the differences in him.
First off... yes the nair does not connect as well as it did in melee. Also, yes he does feel a little bit slower although not by much. realistically, due to the changes in him so far I find that he has a lot better of a mind game approach to him now. The differences in him are going to throw people off who are used to super aggressive falcons. He certainly is not going to be quite as good as his melee counterpart while this current update is there.
As far as how he should be improved, I think they should return to his original animation from melee to help with that and improving the speed of the downtilt would be greatly appreciated. To be honest I haven't done much wall jumping with him yet but I'm sure that it would feel a bit different for him than it did and therefore could be improved upon.

 

[5-oNe]

speaking of wall jumping. i have been trying to figure out how to do the scar wall jumping and im not too sure how...i heard that you have to di an extreme amount and would that have changed being transferred into project m from melee with model differences, etc.? i have not seen a video of anyone doing it in project m either