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What are the most iconic moves for current characters that are being disregarded by Smash?

Lenidem

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Their explicit in name, but not really function. Tell me honestly, would you think it any better if Ganondorf's Dark Dive was renamed to use the same Japanese characters as Link's Thunder Spell in Zelda II? I don't think that would truly satisfy anyone, but it is pretty much exactly what Zelda's doing. Taking the name and very broad concept of something another character does and reinterpreting it as an original move.



True, her current final smash is not something completely random and does fit her. But it did replace something that I think would arguably be more associated with her, and something that I'd certainly gauge as more reminiscent of what she actually does when actively fighting in gameplay in several games. But like I said, I'm not exactly calling for Zelda to get her light arrows back. I don't demand characters be 100% accurate to their own games, Smash is a fighting game first and foremost, not a museum for character attacks. Adding in more faithful elements to a character is not something that should be done at the cost of compromising a moveset that works. That's why I'm so keen to see custom specials return in a more expansive form, as it allows more freedom of representation without compromising what already exists.



I don't dismiss it, I say it for what it is. A tangential relation. My point isn't that Ganondorf can't or shouldn't get the Dead Man's Volley, it would make absolute sense if he did. No, my point is that I don't think Ganondorf requires it to be accurately represented in a game. I don't consider Ganondorf in The Wind Waker a bad or strange depiction of the character because he never throws around lightning balls. Or, actually, for a better comparison because it's also an ensemble of playable characters game, Ganondorf doesn't have anything resembling Dead Man's Volley in Hyrule Warriors (the closest would be the projectiles he launches when using Warlock Punch, but they're just generic projectiles that don't even bounce around or anything, they're not even made of lightning), yet that incarnation of the character was praised as one of the best represenations of him by many fans.



So side note not really related to the thread, but I'd actually really like it if a character did have a move that resembles how Farore's Wind originally worked. Namely a two stage move where you first set up a recovery spot, and then can warp to it from anywhere, making for a recovery that will save you no matter how far you're flung, but has a somewhat predictable place to reappear. I think it'd make for a very interesting take on a recovery move that could be utilized in fun ways during general combat. Now I don't think Zelda herself should necessairly get it, as Farore's Wind works fine on her moveset as is, and in concept it is closest to the original spell in concept of the three, but I would like to see it in general on some character. I've speculated on it for several mages from the Fire Emblem series using the rewarp staff, even a Pikmin character could use it due to the way their spaceships work. No strong conclusion to this, it's just an idea for a move that Smash hasn't done yet that I'd like to see.
We disagree on two things then.

First, I think that Zelda's special moves translate kinda well what they do in-game. You keep saying that it's only the names, but Farore's Wind is still a teleportation with green light, Nayru's Love is still a protective spell with a blue cristal, and so on. It could be more accurate, sure, but as far as Smash Bros' reinterpretation goes, there is much worse.

And second, "Ganon's Phantoms" and "Ganon in another body" is not what I call "tangentially related" to Ganon, but closely related to him.
 
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Jotari

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We disagree on two things then.

First, I think that Zelda's special moves translate kinda well what they do in-game. You keep saying that it's only the names, but Farore's Wind is still a teleportation with green light, Nayru's Love is still a protective spell with a blue cristal, and so on. It could be more accurate, sure, but as far as Smash Bros' reinterpretation goes, there is much worse.
I think if Dark Dive was renamed Thunder it would be about as similar as Zelda's specials are to the source material. It's still be an electric based move. Likewise they could call Wizard's Foot after the Fire Spell, it's still using Fire. I think Zelda's spells being based on the Fairy Spells look well enough on the surface, but our pretty generic on analysis, with the exception of Farore's Wind which is doing more or less the same thing as in it's original game in just a different way. And it's not like the likes of Nayru's Love couldn't be used the same way it is Ocarina of Time, we have defense buffs in characters like Shulk. Of course I don't really want Zelda's Nayru's Love to function differently as a defense buff for Zelda wouldn't really be as effective as a reflector (though I could see moving Nayru's Love to a normal move or a Shield Special and then using the open neutral special to implement Light Arrows). ]

Zelda's specials are fine as they are, but I think even when taking their broad concept, there are better sources for them inside the actual Zelda series. Of the three Din's Fire is the least similar to it's original counter part, changing completely from an AOE expanding outwards to a remote firing projectile. Literally the only thing similar here is the fire element. The aforementioned Fire Spell from Zelda II would work much better, as in that game it functions as a literal fire ball, though Link can't direct it. Fire Spell is also a bit of a generic name, so if I were in control my personal choice would actually be Bombos from Zelda II. Like Din's Fire this functions as an AOE attack in game, but visually it's much closer to how Din's Fire works in Smash, involving a moving fire ball that changes trajectory to hit multiple enemies.

Similarly another A Link to the Past spell that is more functionally similar than Ocarina of Time spells is the Cane of Byrna. Like Nayru's Love this is something that makes Link invincible. However unlike Nayru's Love which is a constant force field, the Cane of Byrna is something you can turn on and off at will, and unlike Nayru's Love in Ocarina of Time which is purely defensive, the Cane of Byrna has offensive capabilities, dealing damage to enemies Link runs into while using it, making it much more similar to Smash's Nayru's Love.

Of course it's obvious why they didn't go for these A Link to the Past spells that are functionally more similar to the way these things work in Smash, Ocarina of Time was the much more recent and massively popular game when Melee was released, so there was no incentive at all to go into the backlog of a game that was popular a decade ago when Ocarina of Time was right there. Likely they did decide to source the Ocarina of Time spells first and then reinterpreted them into Smash, while I'm doing the opposite by reinterpreting them back into the Zelda series with things more similar. And really there's nothing wrong with that. It's absolutely fine for them to be creative like that. But in a discussion about representation, Zelda's specials (and her normals) aren't indicative of how Zelda has ever been depicted in her own series. And they've had twenty years now to actually include her using such abilities, but they've never given her so much as a Fire Ball. Consistently her method of fighting has actually been as an archer which is now not present in her moveset at all.

Now I want to reiterate that I don't want to see Zelda changed. I think it'd be great if they could work the Light Arrows in in some way, but largely Zelda is fine in Smash and characters don't need to be 100% accurate to their source material. But I think it's worth acknowledging that Zelda and Ganondorf are in the same boat when it comes to how representative they are in Smash, with Zelda actually being worse off as at least punching, kicking and joking is something Ganondorf does do on occasion in the Zelda series.

And second, "Ganon's Phantoms" and "Ganon in another body" is not what I call "tangentially related" to Ganon, but closely related to him.
Even then it's still in roughly half of his appearances. Way less if we count by individual boss battles. I also think the most salient thing about Dead Man's Volley is that it's not just a generic energy ball, but that it's one that is reflected back and forth. So from that perspective I think it'd be much more characteristic to give Ganondorf a reflector. This would also synergize better with his current moveset as it would make him less vulnerable to projectiles. It's also something that could be added without altering his current specials, say by adding it as a property to his standard attacks, like maybe his jab or smashes.
 
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Ice-N-Space

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Peach grabs are being disregarded by Smash and I hate it... Moving on Peach's emotional attacks from Super Princess Peach should been her B move by now working like Shulk's monado powers Rage increasing her weight, Joy increase float duration, Gloom increasing her speed and her tears push characters and Calm can heal 5% every two seconds.
 

Quillion

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Smash is a fighting game first and foremost, not a museum for character attacks.
You know what Jotari Jotari , you say this a lot, but I think you've hit why I dislike the movesets/portrayals of a lot of the more recent characters from Smash 4 and on. These include Mega Man, Robin, Shulk, Ryu and Ken, Cloud, Bayonetta, Joker, Hero, Terry, Min Min, Steve, and Kazuya. While the classic 64/Melee/Brawl characters for the most part consciously try to balance having the most "iconic" moves and mechanics while working them into the limitations of Smash, most of the recent characters are trying to cram as much canonical references and import as much mechanics as humanly possible. The newer portion of the roster is turning into the "museum of canon" that you say Smash should avoid.

It makes them feel overly complicated and cluttered. Smash was built on the premise of the characters being easy to understand while having some depth for skilled players. I guess it would be good moveset design in a game like, say PlayStation All-Stars, but since it goes against the idea of what Smash is designed for, I have no choice but to call it bad moveset design. It also doesn't help that these overcomplicated characters put more burden on the game balance. Detrimental faithfulness to canon is a thing even when the characters have no previous portrayal in the series.

The worst part is that some fans want the old characters to match these newer characters in complexity and canonicity. Forget Ganondorf; Samus gets these baffling complaints the most since people want her to have her exact Morph Ball mechanics and Speed Booster/Shinespark.

Do you feel the same way? I might make this its own topic later on.
 

Oracle Link

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Lets go away from zelda for a bit sort of

Sword Kirby:
Most iconic Kirby ability yet only the ultra variant is in!
 

IzukuXYang4Life

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Young Link is a guilty example of this.

No cool/badass mask transformations.

Which don't make sense switch switchable characters are a thing in Ultimate like Pokemon Trainer (By Cinder's Wrath, Sakurai got really lazy with the moveset).

Not even a fierce Deity Final Smash.


Same with Sephiroth.

Who doesn't even use that flame pillar move. Or His Meteors. Or His Descend Heartless Angel Move.

Instead hacking and slashing over and over to a point where he's super boring and uninteresting.


Snake also should have had guns and CQC in the game. It's not fair for him to have no guns or fire arms at all but then let Bayonetta shoot at everybody with guns.


Cloud should have had magic spells and summons. And his motorbike (Why does Wario have a bike and not Cloud, that makes zero sense).

Instead of doing the same boring thing over and over again and again.


Luminary should have gotten some different magic spells as opposed to just 'borrowing" the levitate, fire, and thunder spells Robin already has (Makes him super boring and not worth playing in my book).

As well as something that's not the same thing as Jigglypuff's put you to sleep move or The Cover you in Metal move like the metal cap item (Where's anything in Luminary's moveset resembling creativity and originality).

He also should have had summons and his horse.


Ganondorf was done very dirty once again.

No cool magic spells like his teleport or him throwing a ball of light at you.

No ghost horse like the one he used in Twilight Princess.

No Trident Like Weapon like what he used in Link To The Past or dual swords he used in Wind Waker.

Nothing whatsoever.


And Byleth's other weapons.

He should have had the option of switching the sword out for over weapons he was using (I'm sick and tired of mindless sword fighters in the DLC run Sakurai).

Same deal with Steve and Luminary.

Once again. Some having the DLC characters do something other than use the exact same weapon over and over again and again would have been much appreciated.


Also would have been cool if Joker's Persona stand would attack more as opposed to standing behind Joker and not doing a single thing other than help him fly back onto the stage.


Also felt as if Falco and Wolf could have had the weapons that were used in the on ground battles in Star Fox Assault as opposed to coping off Fox for the 1 millionth time (Would it kill Sakurai to do something different with the returning veterans who are not named Mario Or Link).


So yeah. Those are character's who's moves that would have been cool to see that I felt Smash did wrong.

Feel free to either agree or disagree with me.
 

Oracle Link

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Young Link is a guilty example of this.

No cool/badass mask transformations.

Which don't make sense switch switchable characters are a thing in Ultimate like Pokemon Trainer (By Cinder's Wrath, Sakurai got really lazy with the moveset).

Not even a fierce Deity Final Smash.


Same with Sephiroth.

Who doesn't even use that flame pillar move. Or His Meteors. Or His Descend Heartless Angel Move.

Instead hacking and slashing over and over to a point where he's super boring and uninteresting.


Snake also should have had guns and CQC in the game. It's not fair for him to have no guns or fire arms at all but then let Bayonetta shoot at everybody with guns.


Cloud should have had magic spells and summons. And his motorbike (Why does Wario have a bike and not Cloud, that makes zero sense).

Instead of doing the same boring thing over and over again and again.


Luminary should have gotten some different magic spells as opposed to just 'borrowing" the levitate, fire, and thunder spells Robin already has (Makes him super boring and not worth playing in my book).

As well as something that's not the same thing as Jigglypuff's put you to sleep move or The Cover you in Metal move like the metal cap item (Where's anything in Luminary's moveset resembling creativity and originality).

He also should have had summons and his horse.


Ganondorf was done very dirty once again.

No cool magic spells like his teleport or him throwing a ball of light at you.

No ghost horse like the one he used in Twilight Princess.

No Trident Like Weapon like what he used in Link To The Past or dual swords he used in Wind Waker.

Nothing whatsoever.


And Byleth's other weapons.

He should have had the option of switching the sword out for over weapons he was using (I'm sick and tired of mindless sword fighters in the DLC run Sakurai).

Same deal with Steve and Luminary.

Once again. Some having the DLC characters do something other than use the exact same weapon over and over again and again would have been much appreciated.


Also would have been cool if Joker's Persona stand would attack more as opposed to standing behind Joker and not doing a single thing other than help him fly back onto the stage.


Also felt as if Falco and Wolf could have had the weapons that were used in the on ground battles in Star Fox Assault as opposed to coping off Fox for the 1 millionth time (Would it kill Sakurai to do something different with the returning veterans who are not named Mario Or Link).


So yeah. Those are character's who's moves that would have been cool to see that I felt Smash did wrong.

Feel free to either agree or disagree with me.
When it comes to FF7 its always presented wrong not even most fans remeber or apreciate the Original game!
 

Ben Holt

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This bull****. Why didn't they give Ridley his iconic pogo tail?

Also, Samus should actually be able to move around as a morph ball instead of it just being her rolling dodge and appearing for a split second as her Down-B.

And give Ganondorf's current moveset to Demise while giving Ganondorf his much more iconic trident and some actual magic.

Speaking of Zelda, I dislike how they took Link's Clawshot away. Give it back.
 

Oracle Link

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This bull****. Why didn't they give Ridley his iconic pogo tail?

Also, Samus should actually be able to move around as a morph ball instead of it just being her rolling dodge and appearing for a split second as her Down-B.

And give Ganondorf's current moveset to Demise while giving Ganondorf his much more iconic trident and some actual magic.

Speaking of Zelda, I dislike how they took Link's Clawshot away. Give it back.
i think its also weird how only adult link has a sword beam and jump attack!
 

Jotari

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You know what Jotari Jotari , you say this a lot, but I think you've hit why I dislike the movesets/portrayals of a lot of the more recent characters from Smash 4 and on. These include Mega Man, Robin, Shulk, Ryu and Ken, Cloud, Bayonetta, Joker, Hero, Terry, Min Min, Steve, and Kazuya. While the classic 64/Melee/Brawl characters for the most part consciously try to balance having the most "iconic" moves and mechanics while working them into the limitations of Smash, most of the recent characters are trying to cram as much canonical references and import as much mechanics as humanly possible. The newer portion of the roster is turning into the "museum of canon" that you say Smash should avoid.

It makes them feel overly complicated and cluttered. Smash was built on the premise of the characters being easy to understand while having some depth for skilled players. I guess it would be good moveset design in a game like, say PlayStation All-Stars, but since it goes against the idea of what Smash is designed for, I have no choice but to call it bad moveset design. It also doesn't help that these overcomplicated characters put more burden on the game balance. Detrimental faithfulness to canon is a thing even when the characters have no previous portrayal in the series.

The worst part is that some fans want the old characters to match these newer characters in complexity and canonicity. Forget Ganondorf; Samus gets these baffling complaints the most since people want her to have her exact Morph Ball mechanics and Speed Booster/Shinespark.

Do you feel the same way? I might make this its own topic later on.
Yes and no. Obviously I want characters to have as many canonical references as they can manage, but I want them to feel fun to use too. So I do feel it for a lot of the newer characters like you mentioned. But that doesn't mean I don't want the older characters to get updated references added to their existing movesets. I just don't want updates to compromise the existing movesets. That's why I've always been so adamant about Ganondorf's moveset not changing (while also wanting it to have some minor tweaks). Things like Link's Jump Attack Dash Attack or Donkey Kong's roll were great additions, things that I think should have been there in the first place. And, as I've mentioned several times, I think alternate special moves would be a fantastic way to do stuff like that without compromising the core way in which characters fight.

I think Kazuya is the pinnacle of overcomplicated, overly faithful design. He has like half a million attacks with various inputs that just don't gel with Smash. I'm not sure if Tekken fans love that inclusion in Smash, but the way I see it if I wanted to play a character that works like that, then I'd actually play Tekken. I think Terry and the Street Fighting duo have this to a similar extent, though not nearly as extreme. On the other hand I find Sephiroth quite a fun and well designed character to use that still manages to take a lot from his own games. So the best of both worlds is certainly possible.

This bull****. Why didn't they give Ridley his iconic pogo tail?
Alternatively instead of being his Down Aerial, they could give him an aerial version of his Down Special. I think that would look much more natural if it's a more vertically launched attack (though with some angle like in Other M) while in the air.
And give Ganondorf's current moveset to Demise while giving Ganondorf his much more iconic trident and some actual magic.

Speaking of Zelda, I dislike how they took Link's Clawshot away. Give it back.
Magic and trident aren't things that are massively iconic to Ganondorf. They're much more iconic of Pig Beast Ganon, who I'd much rather see as a new character. We already have three Links and two Zeldas, a second Ganon would not be remiss.
 
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Jotari

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I agree with you with a lot of things for Ganon, but "magic" not being iconic? Isn't that the entire conceit of his character?
In Ocarina of Time, sure, but in his other two appearances, Twilight Princess and The Wind Waker, he fights primarily using swords, punches and kicks, just like in Smash.
 

Quillion

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In Ocarina of Time, sure, but in his other two appearances, Twilight Princess and The Wind Waker, he fights primarily using swords, punches and kicks, just like in Smash.
Why do people keep forgetting that he summons phantoms as the Dark Rider?


On the other hand, even in OoT, his major magical feats are offscreen, like freezing Zora's Domain. For some reason his onscreen fighting style relies on swords primarily supplemented by hand-to-hand. It's the reverse of Smash where his fighting style is hand-to-hand supplemented by swords, but then again, Mario doesn't have his Goomba Stomp.
 

Lenidem

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Why do people keep forgetting that he summons phantoms as the Dark Rider?


On the other hand, even in OoT, his major magical feats are offscreen, like freezing Zora's Domain. For some reason his onscreen fighting style relies on swords primarily supplemented by hand-to-hand. It's the reverse of Smash where his fighting style is hand-to-hand supplemented by swords, but then again, Mario doesn't have his Goomba Stomp.
And I doubt the Phantom Ganon from Wind Waker were just chilling on their island until Ganon met them by chance and offered them a job because they had the same name, face, and similar powers.
 
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Jotari

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Why do people keep forgetting that he summons phantoms as the Dark Rider?


On the other hand, even in OoT, his major magical feats are offscreen, like freezing Zora's Domain. For some reason his onscreen fighting style relies on swords primarily supplemented by hand-to-hand. It's the reverse of Smash where his fighting style is hand-to-hand supplemented by swords, but then again, Mario doesn't have his Goomba Stomp.
I don't forget, I just don't see it as an integral part of how he fights. Sure, we could give him a special where he summons a phantom like Zelda does, and in fact that's exactly what I suggested for a custom down special for him
But I don't think that alone should be the basis to redesign his entire moveset. The basic attacks Ganondorf uses in Twilight Princess are more reminiscent of how he fights already in Smash (they take elements from the Wind Waker but his style is overall much more inexplicably ninja like there, though I do think the punch rush he uses to disable Link could work as a throw), I don't think turning him into a full blown mage would be any more representative of him than the way he is now. Better to take the actual magic combat he does more commonly as Ganon and make that a moveset rather than creating Demise and giving him a bunch of attacks that are based around how Ganon fights (because a bunch of his existing attacks are animations taken directly from his games).
 

Quillion

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regardless of whether donkey kong warrants a projectile in his moveset, the lack of barrels is a crime. it was the most defining element of his character in the arcade days and continues to define and shape his series’ identity as time continues.
How do you make barrels not overly slow or overpowered? These are barrels, not rapidly firing laser shots. They have to be strong in some way, so it's hard to imagine how it can be balanced without it being unrealistically weak.

I don't forget, I just don't see it as an integral part of how he fights. Sure, we could give him a special where he summons a phantom like Zelda does, and in fact that's exactly what I suggested for a custom down special for him
But I don't think that alone should be the basis to redesign his entire moveset. The basic attacks Ganondorf uses in Twilight Princess are more reminiscent of how he fights already in Smash (they take elements from the Wind Waker but his style is overall much more inexplicably ninja like there, though I do think the punch rush he uses to disable Link could work as a throw), I don't think turning him into a full blown mage would be any more representative of him than the way he is now. Better to take the actual magic combat he does more commonly as Ganon and make that a moveset rather than creating Demise and giving him a bunch of attacks that are based around how Ganon fights (because a bunch of his existing attacks are animations taken directly from his games).
I don't think the current sword gels well with his established playstyle, but you seem to be under the impression that the "Canondorfs" only want him to be fully revamped.

Putting aside my desire for him and Bowser to be reverted to their Melee/Brawl animations, people have stated that they would be happy with a single projectile.
 

Jotari

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How do you make barrels not overly slow or overpowered? These are barrels, not rapidly firing laser shots. They have to be strong in some way, so it's hard to imagine how it can be balanced without it being unrealistically weak.



I don't think the current sword gels well with his established playstyle, but you seem to be under the impression that the "Canondorfs" only want him to be fully revamped.

Putting aside my desire for him and Bowser to be reverted to their Melee/Brawl animations, people have stated that they would be happy with a single projectile.
That response was to someone saying Ganondorf's entire moveset should be ported over to Demise, which is a bit more extreme than giving him a single projectile.
 

Jotari

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And thank goodness for that. He already has an insane combo game. He doesn't also need free damage merely from jumping.
If he just did some light damage via foot stooling I don't think it would unreasonably buff him. Footstooling is hard enough to perform as it is and doesn't lend itself well to comboing (though great for psudeo spiking) to the extent that it'd be largely useless feature, but still one that serves a nice reference.
 

StrangeKitten

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If he just did some light damage via foot stooling I don't think it would unreasonably buff him. Footstooling is hard enough to perform as it is and doesn't lend itself well to comboing (though great for psudeo spiking) to the extent that it'd be largely useless feature, but still one that serves a nice reference.
Footstool damage I'd be fine with. Jump damage? Not so much.
 

MasterCheef

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Ganondorf was done very dirty once again.

No Trident Like Weapon like what he used in Link To The Past or dual swords he used in Wind Waker.

No cool magic spells like his teleport or him throwing a ball of light at you.

No ghost horse like the one he used in Twilight Princess.

Nothing whatsoever.
1st most important is Ganondorf's trident
2nd most important is Ganondorf's magic spells
Ghost horse honestly is unnecessary

Ganondorf's recovery should be a teleport

Ganondorf's down special should be his Blazing Bats

Ganondorf's neutral special should be his Dead Man's Volley


I don't know what are iconic moves for Samus. She desperately needs a rework, as Mii gunner is basically her worse clone

her air jump should be a screw attack then her recovery move could be a tether

her neutral special can be swapping between various weapons which she fires with her side special ( Magmaul, Judicator & Battlehammer )

The Magmaul fires molten projectiles with a large splash radius. The projectiles bounce off walls and objects and explode after three seconds. When charged, it produces a larger and more damaging projectile with a much greater splash radius.

The Judicator is an ice-based Affinity Weapon created by the Vhozon and given to acolytes who reach the fifth level of Vhozon Codex training. Noxus' weapon of choice in Metroid Prime Hunters, it shoots supercooled plasma at near absolute zero temperatures and ricochet off impacted surfaces.

The Battlehammer is also an additional weapon system for the standard Arm Cannon. Powered by a small nuclear reactor, it is a heavy mortar-type weapon that fires green globules of energy along an arching path.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Ganondorf doesn't use a Trident. That's not important. That's something only his Monster form uses, and that's not even a character who has a cameo in Smash. The closest is Phantom Ganon's Trident, which isn't even a copy of Ganon's original Trident, as it holds very little power and works differently as is.

Ganondorf doesn't use Blazing Bats. That's again, a Ganon ability. They are separate characters, despite being the same person. Ganondorf physically attacks others with kicks and punches in canon. The Trident should only be from Phantom Ganon, if any, but that's it. At least that makes sense. Ganondorf doesn't even own a Trident on his own during OOT, which makes it odd that Phantom Ganon uses one. He doesn't get a Trident till he fully gets resurrected after dying in TP no less, and for the first time, is canonically reborn as a different person. Yes, it's that odd. It's the second Ganon in canon, and they know of Ganondorf in Four Swords Adventures too. Who is completely absent, as they specify he no longer exists and never showed up. It becomes a stretch to even say Ganondorf could use that Trident at that point. It's most definitely not important to him. That's not to say he can't use one, if you take a look at HW, but it's not important to him, as Ganondorf in canon never had access to Ganon's Trident at any point. That's where it becomes a massive stretch to use that wording.

Dead Man's Volley has proven to be highly difficult to actually make work correctly in Smash. It makes little sense to try and say "canon" but make it essentially the same as Lightning Ball, a similar move without the extreme reflective properties(which balances correctly into Smash and is also easier to implement anyway. Ganondorf has used this more than once, making it more important to him). Besides that, Dead Man's Volley is thrown onto any boss and Ganondorf uses it less than his own clone, Phantom Ganon(who uses it 3 times in canon).

The only move other than slightly DMV(and that's not even important to him canonically. A blue Stalfos uses it, for cripes' sake. Ganon used it once. Yuga Ganon used it once, while combined with the monster form, not the human form, meaning overall Ganon, not Ganondorf, even uses it more) is the Teleport, his actual important missing ability. DMV isn't important to Ganondorf. It's just a move he helped codified, except not the name. That was codified in PH by the Cubus Sisters. It may not have had the name DMV till then, even in the coding no less.

If you're trying to shoehorn moves only Ganon can use, which Ganondorf doesn't even use in HW... it's not very important to the human form. It's especially less important when the canon makes it clear that those moves would be inaccessible to a specific form. There's a huge difference between it being an idea that would legitimately make him feel more canon, and stretching it to say it holds any legit importance. DMV is far more debatable, Teleport is important, Trident holds zero importance to Ganondorf, and according to the timeline, a different Ganon first uses Blazing Bats. Your argument is a massive stretch here to include these. I don't deny they're notable, but that's different from important. There's a reason why people speak of properly representing Ganon as playable, because he's vastly different from Ganondorf, even if Ganondorf used more of his canon moveset(he wouldn't be using the Trident from ALTTP or Blazing Bats regardless, cause they aren't canon abilities. Even if he somehow luckily got that Trident, which Zelda proves non-canon version abilities are possible, Blazing Bats would make no sense and pretty much is as likely as Goku getting in. It has zero ties to Ganondorf in any actual game, so there's no reason Sakurai would choose it).

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Also, small correction; Toon Link isn't from WW. He's based upon the design introduced. He's also listed as from ST, a different Link. This is the idea of what the original Link also did, being based upon all the Links up to OOT. It's not till Brawl he becomes a specific Link. Young Link is meant to be from OOT/MM only, but there's no denying he reminds one of the overhead Link due to their shape looking somewhat younger because of sprite limitations. The odd Melee trophy does have a lick of truth to it.
 
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fogbadge

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Also, small correction; Toon Link isn't from WW. He's based upon the design introduced. He's also listed as from ST, a different Link. This is the idea of what the original Link also did, being based upon all the Links up to OOT. It's not till Brawl he becomes a specific Link. Young Link is meant to be from OOT/MM only, but there's no denying he reminds one of the overhead Link due to their shape looking somewhat younger because of sprite limitations. The odd Melee trophy does have a lick of truth to it.
you sure hes meant to be all the toon links? cause everything bar his classic mode seems to be based on WW
 

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you sure hes meant to be all the toon links? cause everything bar his classic mode seems to be based on WW
Yes. His games are listed as WW, PH, and ST for a reason. It's a design thing. Conductor Link was removed for the same reason originally(Link was not listed as being removed at first) on the stage, because he was just another form of Toon Link.

The trophy is a bit poorly worded, but it says "as he appears in Wind Waker", which refers to a design thing. If they worded it better, it'd cause a lot less confusion. Like "Based upon his appearance in Wind Waker", which is the same thing, just better said.

WW is the most popular iteration at the time, which is why it has the most content. PH and ST has nothing on it, and for good reasons. The controls are a mixed bag, with many having issues with the games. However, Classic Mode proves that anyway. He specifically adheres to the Four Swords/Minish Cap abilities of splitting himself apart. ST also has more content than PH, but it did improve the controls a bit and had Zelda finally playable again. Well, kind of. You don't get to properly control her, but something she possesses. Only HW and the CD-i games let you truly control Zelda.
 
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fogbadge

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Yes. His games are listed as WW, PH, and ST for a reason. It's a design thing. Conductor Link was removed for the same reason originally(Link was not listed as being removed at first) on the stage, because he was just another form of Toon Link.

The trophy is a bit poorly worded, but it says "as he appears in Wind Waker", which refers to a design thing. If they worded it better, it'd cause a lot less confusion. Like "Based upon his appearance in Wind Waker", which is the same thing, just better said.

WW is the most popular iteration at the time, which is why it has the most content. PH and ST has nothing on it, and for good reasons. The controls are a mixed bag, with many having issues with the games. However, Classic Mode proves that anyway. He specifically adheres to the Four Swords/Minish Cap abilities of splitting himself apart. ST also has more content than PH, but it did improve the controls a bit and had Zelda finally playable again. Well, kind of. You don't get to properly control her, but something she possesses. Only HW and the CD-i games let you truly control Zelda.
his classic mode there’s 3 of him in reference to tri forces heroes
 
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