What are the most iconic moves for current characters that are being disregarded by Smash?

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

his classic mode there’s 3 of him in reference to tri forces heroes

Which is a Toon-based game. The point is the overall same.

 

[Oracle Link]

his classic mode there’s 3 of him in reference to tri forces heroes

Yeah and i think there where swordbeams in that game!

 

[fogbadge]

Which is a Toon-based game. The point is the overall same.

if was correcting the info not the point

Yeah and i think there where swordbeams in that game!

In a certain outfit

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

if was correcting the info not the point

The point was that Toon Link isn't the character from WW alone. But an artstyle reference.

If I lost that point along the way, apologies. But that's my core point regardless.

It's kind of too late to matter if it has "mostly one game", when Toon Link is listed from being from Spirit Tracks, who stars a different Link, being his ascendant. Toon just refers to an artstyle, to the point it's applied outside of Smash. The first Toon Zelda in HW isn't from WW, but ST specifically, for instance. Same thing with Toon Link appearing in HW as is. They didn't use WW Link or some variation, they used his artstyle name alone.

...I mean, it's kind of obvious why they use the term Toon anyway. They would've found a more logical one if it was not an artstyle. There's more names than using a blatant artstyle name as is.

Also, the trophy is a bit more clear when I better quote it; "This cartoonish version of Link is how he appeared in The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker and a few other titles". What's important here is that few means 3 or more in the language it's written in. It's hard-saying that it's more than Wind Waker(and Phantom Hourglass) by the design philosophy.

Funny thing is even Link's Awakening(remake) Link is represented by Toon Link, who fits the style way more. That version of Link is an artstyle used for a lot of various Holiday-based Cartoons. It's why some have referred to him as Christmas Special Link, due to using that artstyle and all. It's no surprise that a Cartoon verison was used to represent a Cartoon design. When we got the new Spirit Train stage, Sakurai first told us that Conductor Link is removed whenever Toon Link shows up. He doesn't tell us about Link pulling the same thing for some reason(likely a last minute idea). It's easy to see why. His point was that they're both a form of Toon Link. The other Link didn't matter, and was just also chosen to do the same thing, but wasn't important to the actual stage mechanic in itself. And so on.

 

[fogbadge]

The point was that Toon Link isn't the character from WW alone. But an artstyle reference.

If I lost that point along the way, apologies. But that's my core point regardless.

It's kind of too late to matter if it has "mostly one game", when Toon Link is listed from being from Spirit Tracks, who stars a different Link, being his ascendant. Toon just refers to an artstyle, to the point it's applied outside of Smash. The first Toon Zelda in HW isn't from WW, but ST specifically, for instance. Same thing with Toon Link appearing in HW as is. They didn't use WW Link or some variation, they used his artstyle name alone.

...I mean, it's kind of obvious why they use the term Toon anyway. They would've found a more logical one if it was not an artstyle. There's more names than using a blatant artstyle name as is.

Also, the trophy is a bit more clear when I better quote it; "This cartoonish version of Link is how he appeared in The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker and a few other titles". What's important here is that few means 3 or more in the language it's written in. It's hard-saying that it's more than Wind Waker(and Phantom Hourglass) by the design philosophy.

Funny thing is even Link's Awakening(remake) Link is represented by Toon Link, who fits the style way more. That version of Link is an artstyle used for a lot of various Holiday-based Cartoons. It's why some have referred to him as Christmas Special Link, due to using that artstyle and all. It's no surprise that a Cartoon verison was used to represent a Cartoon design. When we got the new Spirit Train stage, Sakurai first told us that Conductor Link is removed whenever Toon Link shows up. He doesn't tell us about Link pulling the same thing for some reason(likely a last minute idea). It's easy to see why. His point was that they're both a form of Toon Link. The other Link didn't matter, and was just also chosen to do the same thing, but wasn't important to the actual stage mechanic in itself. And so on.

well i was just surprised that the game considers him a broad representation when the other two are more specific, though in my defence i forget about that spirit train detail from trying to block out the alfonso memes

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

well i was just surprised that the game considers him a broad representation when the other two are more specific, though in my defence i forget about that spirit train detail from trying to block out the alfonso memes

Actually, Link was a broad generalization till Brawl.

Young Link was supposed to be OOT/MM only, but the bad translation made him sound like a broad generalization. Being a clone, he did have a few moves he can't get here or there, but did represent only two games otherwise.

 

[fogbadge]

Actually, Link was a broad generalization till Brawl.

Young Link was supposed to be OOT/MM only, but the bad translation made him sound like a broad generalization. Being a clone, he did have a few moves he can't get here or there, but did represent only two games otherwise.

no wonder I can’t keep track

 

[MasterCheef]

Ganondorf doesn't use a Trident. only his Monster form does, and has no cameo in Smash. The closest is Phantom Ganon's Trident, which isn't even a copy of Ganon's original Trident, as it holds very little power and works differently as is.

Ganondorf doesn't use Blazing Bats. That's again, a Ganon ability.

Dead Man's Volley has proven to be highly difficult to actually make work correctly in Smash. It makes little sense to try and say "canon" but make it essentially the same as Lightning Ball, a similar move without the extreme reflective properties(which balances correctly into Smash and is also easier to implement anyway. Ganondorf has used this more than once, making it more important to him).
----------------

boy you are hard to please.

1 honestly i am fine without the blazing bats.

2 i really want to see some interesting weapons which are alternatives to swords.

3 Lightning Ball instead of DMV is fine

4 a teleport recovery & ranged move like Lightning Ball is sooo needed on Ganondorf

Also no love for Samus? what about my thoughts for changing her and making her better?

 

[subterrestrial]

why doesn't wario have his enemy carry ?

he should have a walking grab similar to dk's

 

[fogbadge]

why doesn't wario have his enemy carry ?

he should have a walking grab similar to dk's

i would have loved that. along with the throws plus sound effects

 

[Jotari]

Ganondorf doesn't use a Trident. That's not important. That's something only his Monster form uses, and that's not even a character who has a cameo in Smash. The closest is Phantom Ganon's Trident, which isn't even a copy of Ganon's original Trident, as it holds very little power and works differently as is.

Ganondorf doesn't use Blazing Bats. That's again, a Ganon ability. They are separate characters, despite being the same person. Ganondorf physically attacks others with kicks and punches in canon. The Trident should only be from Phantom Ganon, if any, but that's it. At least that makes sense. Ganondorf doesn't even own a Trident on his own during OOT, which makes it odd that Phantom Ganon uses one. He doesn't get a Trident till he fully gets resurrected after dying in TP no less, and for the first time, is canonically reborn as a different person. Yes, it's that odd. It's the second Ganon in canon, and they know of Ganondorf in Four Swords Adventures too. Who is completely absent, as they specify he no longer exists and never showed up. It becomes a stretch to even say Ganondorf could use that Trident at that point. It's most definitely not important to him. That's not to say he can't use one, if you take a look at HW, but it's not important to him, as Ganondorf in canon never had access to Ganon's Trident at any point. That's where it becomes a massive stretch to use that wording.

Dead Man's Volley has proven to be highly difficult to actually make work correctly in Smash. It makes little sense to try and say "canon" but make it essentially the same as Lightning Ball, a similar move without the extreme reflective properties(which balances correctly into Smash and is also easier to implement anyway. Ganondorf has used this more than once, making it more important to him). Besides that, Dead Man's Volley is thrown onto any boss and Ganondorf uses it less than his own clone, Phantom Ganon(who uses it 3 times in canon).

The only move other than slightly DMV(and that's not even important to him canonically. A blue Stalfos uses it, for cripes' sake. Ganon used it once. Yuga Ganon used it once, while combined with the monster form, not the human form, meaning overall Ganon, not Ganondorf, even uses it more) is the Teleport, his actual important missing ability. DMV isn't important to Ganondorf. It's just a move he helped codified, except not the name. That was codified in PH by the Cubus Sisters. It may not have had the name DMV till then, even in the coding no less.

If you're trying to shoehorn moves only Ganon can use, which Ganondorf doesn't even use in HW... it's not very important to the human form. It's especially less important when the canon makes it clear that those moves would be inaccessible to a specific form. There's a huge difference between it being an idea that would legitimately make him feel more canon, and stretching it to say it holds any legit importance. DMV is far more debatable, Teleport is important, Trident holds zero importance to Ganondorf, and according to the timeline, a different Ganon first uses Blazing Bats. Your argument is a massive stretch here to include these. I don't deny they're notable, but that's different from important. There's a reason why people speak of properly representing Ganon as playable, because he's vastly different from Ganondorf, even if Ganondorf used more of his canon moveset(he wouldn't be using the Trident from ALTTP or Blazing Bats regardless, cause they aren't canon abilities. Even if he somehow luckily got that Trident, which Zelda proves non-canon version abilities are possible, Blazing Bats would make no sense and pretty much is as likely as Goku getting in. It has zero ties to Ganondorf in any actual game, so there's no reason Sakurai would choose it).

----------------

Also, small correction; Toon Link isn't from WW. He's based upon the design introduced. He's also listed as from ST, a different Link. This is the idea of what the original Link also did, being based upon all the Links up to OOT. It's not till Brawl he becomes a specific Link. Young Link is meant to be from OOT/MM only, but there's no denying he reminds one of the overhead Link due to their shape looking somewhat younger because of sprite limitations. The odd Melee trophy does have a lick of truth to it.

As I've briefly mentioned before, I think when it comes to Dead Man's Volley, the reflect is a more important than the actual projectile. Because the tennis aspect of it is the distinct part of Dead Man's Volley that makes it Dead Man's Volley. Otherwise it's just a generic projectile. So to that end, I think Dead Man's Volley could be implemented by simply giving Ganondorf a reflector. It can even keep the name Dead Man's Volley (because a volley is a hit back). And I dare say a dedicated reflector would be more useful to Ganondorf's moveset than a straight up projectile would be.

 

[Lenidem]

As I've briefly mentioned before, I think when it comes to Dead Man's Volley, the reflect is a more important than the actual projectile. Because the tennis aspect of it is the distinct part of Dead Man's Volley that makes it Dead Man's Volley. Otherwise it's just a generic projectile. So to that end, I think Dead Man's Volley could be implemented by simply giving Ganondorf a reflector. It can even keep the name Dead Man's Volley (because a volley is a hit back). And I dare say a dedicated reflector would be more useful to Ganondorf's moveset than a straight up projectile would be.

I would not say the reflect is more important than the projectile. It's a property of the lightning ball : Ganondorf doesn't reflect anything else than that, and it can be reflected by a sword and an empty bottle. In other words, the ball is "reflectable", Ganondorf himself is not a reflector.

 

[fogbadge]

I would not say the reflect is more important than the projectile. It's a property of the lightning ball : Ganondorf doesn't reflect anything else than that, and it can be reflected by a sword and an empty bottle. In other words, the ball is "reflectable", Ganondorf himself is not a reflector.

well now i wanna see young links down taunt be reflective

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As I've briefly mentioned before, I think when it comes to Dead Man's Volley, the reflect is a more important than the actual projectile. Because the tennis aspect of it is the distinct part of Dead Man's Volley that makes it Dead Man's Volley. Otherwise it's just a generic projectile. So to that end, I think Dead Man's Volley could be implemented by simply giving Ganondorf a reflector. It can even keep the name Dead Man's Volley (because a volley is a hit back). And I dare say a dedicated reflector would be more useful to Ganondorf's moveset than a straight up projectile would be.

That's a fair point. Having him have a reflector would be neat too. Same with the Lightning Ball. Being able to still do DMV physically with normal reflectors is a good balance of the abilities in context of Smash itself. It's not exactly DMV itself, but it doesn't need to be.

boy you are hard to please.

1 honestly i am fine without the blazing bats.

2 i really want to see some interesting weapons which are alternatives to swords.

3 Lightning Ball instead of DMV is fine

4 a teleport recovery & ranged move like Lightning Ball is sooo needed on Ganondorf

Also no love for Samus? what about my thoughts for changing her and making her better?

I really don't have an opinion on how Samus plays. That's why I spoke nothing on it. I never had an issue with her. I don't really play Metroid games. Not that I don't deny her lack of tools is baffling to a degree.

I'm a huge Ganondorf fan. I've mained him since his creation. Naturally I'm not going to want him to severely change either. But I also very much care about how he's presented, and simply put, swords and a knife are his only canonical weapon he ever once used. There's no point in shoehorning a variety weapon onto him for the sake of it. There's a lot of characters who easily could do more weapon variety than the current ones in Smash while not deviating from what the character can overall do. In this case, Ganondorf and Ganon are extremely different characters in their abilities. The only real thing they have in common is both can use magic(Ganondorf keeps this in Smash, though it's treated as Darkness too due to how the elemental system works) and pure strength in this context. This isn't Hyrule Warriors where characters need multiple weapons. Ganondorf isn't really around often enough in the Zelda series to change it up, and he's killed twice as is, never fully coming back. Meanwhile Ganon deviates more due to being in more games, and he got the Trident later on after being reincarnated. He's a sword and trident user.

Besides, the legit tie Ganondorf has to a trident is cause Phantom Ganon, his own creation, uses it. That's kind of it. We have no backstory why the character was given a trident. It could've been some rumor of a magical item that Ganondorf heard of, and created Phantom Ganon's weapon out of a desire for more power. Some things are psychological, after all.

That said, I am not saying a Trident or even Blazing Bats would be bad or awkward for Ganondorf, a dark mage, to use. It might be a little for some. My only argument is that these are not important to the human form as an ability. With DMV being a debatable one and whether it's really important or at best notable. Though worth noting that iconic isn't the same as important. Being well known for doesn't mean it's a key ability they need to have to feel correct(especially as Ganondorf loses it in his next two appearances, showing it wasn't that important as we thought it would be). But iconic? Hell yes.

I apologize for the aggressiveness. I've been in debating with Ganondorf stuff for years. So the word usage mattered to me overall. DMV is cool, though. Can't deny that~

 

[Quillion]

That said, I am not saying a Trident or even Blazing Bats would be bad or awkward for Ganondorf, a dark mage, to use. It might be a little for some. My only argument is that these are not important to the human form as an ability. With DMV being a debatable one and whether it's really important or at best notable. Though worth noting that iconic isn't the same as important. Being well known for doesn't mean it's a key ability they need to have to feel correct(especially as Ganondorf loses it in his next two appearances, showing it wasn't that important as we thought it would be). But iconic? Hell yes.

I apologize for the aggressiveness. I've been in debating with Ganondorf stuff for years. So the word usage mattered to me overall. DMV is cool, though. Can't deny that~

Just wondering, are you okay with Ness and Lucas being composites of their respective parties? In fairness to those who want a Ganon-Ganondorf composite, combining the abilities of two forms of one guy doesn't seem as far-fetched as Lucas having Rope Snake and elemental PSI abilities.

That said, I do wish Ness and Lucas had PK Rockin' and Love respectively at minimum. At least for Ness, Paralysis could be a good Side-B while Shield Beta could be a good Down-B. Lucas having Offense Up and Defense Down could also make for interesting gimmicks without going overboard like Hero or Kazuya.

Come to think of it, Ness and Lucas could be perfectly serviceable characters if they stuck to their own abilities exclusively instead of being composites of their friends.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Just wondering, are you okay with Ness and Lucas being composites of their respective parties? In fairness to those who want a Ganon-Ganondorf composite, combining the abilities of two forms of one guy doesn't seem as far-fetched as Lucas having Rope Snake and elemental PSI abilities.

That said, I do wish Ness and Lucas had PK Rockin' and Love respectively at minimum. At least for Ness, Paralysis could be a good Side-B while Shield Beta could be a good Down-B. Lucas having Offense Up and Defense Down could also make for interesting gimmicks without going overboard like Hero or Kazuya.

Come to think of it, Ness and Lucas could be perfectly serviceable characters if they stuck to their own abilities exclusively instead of being composites of their friends.

I'm okay with the composites. But that's also because they are meant to represent their entire game. Ganondorf wasn't designed with that in mind, so the context changes that factor. But yeah, it's just magic and a notable weapon and all.

Agreed they should have Rockin' and Love.

Indeed on the last bit too. They'd be interesting. Though I do like PK Thunder. I basically got the positioning down to use it for a recovery(albeit, at one particular angle), so... but if it was different, I'd get used to that too by now.

 

[Quillion]

I'm okay with the composites. But that's also because they are meant to represent their entire game. Ganondorf wasn't designed with that in mind, so the context changes that factor. But yeah, it's just magic and a notable weapon and all.

Are you saying that Ganondorf should only represent his humanoid self or just his humanoid self in one game? I personally wouldn't say that's a good idea. I'm still rather mad that Ganondorf didn't get a TP alt with a voice considering Ike got his older self as an alt. And I still want an adult Link that represents the "classic" ones as opposed to the BotW Link.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Are you saying that Ganondorf should only represent his humanoid self or just his humanoid self in one game? I personally wouldn't say that's a good idea. I'm still rather mad that Ganondorf didn't get a TP alt with a voice considering Ike got his older self as an alt. And I still want an adult Link that represents the "classic" ones as opposed to the BotW Link.

Yes. I'm saying he should represent his humanoid self(but not just one game, just his canon abilities as Ganondorf from all three games where possible. He has more than enough to work with. Sure, he obviously can't be an agile version from WW, but that's due to his bodyshape and playstyle already determined. A TP-style alt would be cool, though he'd look really strange with the Sage's Sword. Is there any swords in TP among the enemies/bosses he could borrow for the alt?

 

[fogbadge]

And I still want an adult Link that represents the "classic" ones as opposed to the BotW Link.

like we had in the first two smashs?

 

[Jotari]

Yes. I'm saying he should represent his humanoid self(but not just one game, just his canon abilities as Ganondorf from all three games where possible. He has more than enough to work with. Sure, he obviously can't be an agile version from WW, but that's due to his bodyshape and playstyle already determined. A TP-style alt would be cool, though he'd look really strange with the Sage's Sword. Is there any swords in TP among the enemies/bosses he could borrow for the alt?

If looking for a neutral sword for Ganondorf to use that doesn't highlight any one of his incarnations over the others, then I suggest the Dark Master Sword from Skyward Sword. Sure Demise isn't exactly Ganondorf, but they're connected enough to the extent that borrowing attacks isn't altogether odd. The Dark Master Sword is also more plot relevant than any other sword Ganondorf has laid hands on, being a character unto itself.

 

[Perkilator]

Alright, it's finished! My revamped Kirby Smash moveset to include more variety and more references to modern games! Starting with the Smash attacks: (U-Smash is Water or Poison depending on your palette swap) pic.twitter.com/BEbpX2lUiC

— Chia☆- Loco for Locos 🚂 (@ChiaKnight_) August 22, 2021

I recommend taking a look at this thread.

 

[fogbadge]

Alright, it's finished! My revamped Kirby Smash moveset to include more variety and more references to modern games! Starting with the Smash attacks: (U-Smash is Water or Poison depending on your palette swap) pic.twitter.com/BEbpX2lUiC

— Chia☆- Loco for Locos 🚂 (@ChiaKnight_) August 22, 2021

I recommend taking a look at this thread.

some interesting inclusions

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I like the idea of DK using a barrel for an overhead slam that buries his foes as his Side B.

I also like how Project M implemented Samus, giving her the ability to roll around using her Morph Ball.

 

[fogbadge]

I like the idea of DK using a barrel for an overhead slam that buries his foes as his Side B.

I also like how Project M implemented Samus, giving her the ability to roll around using her Morph Ball.

barrel cannon would make for a pretty fun recovery

 

[fogbadge]

say what about samus' ice weapons? theyre pretty important in a lot of her games

or were they a custom move last time and ive just forgot?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

You know what Jotari Jotari , you say this a lot, but I think you've hit why I dislike the movesets/portrayals of a lot of the more recent characters from Smash 4 and on. These include Mega Man, Robin, Shulk, Ryu and Ken, Cloud, Bayonetta, Joker, Hero, Terry, Min Min, Steve, and Kazuya. While the classic 64/Melee/Brawl characters for the most part consciously try to balance having the most "iconic" moves and mechanics while working them into the limitations of Smash, most of the recent characters are trying to cram as much canonical references and import as much mechanics as humanly possible.

I'm not sure you can say that for the base Smash Ultimate newcomers. The only complex newcomers out of the 11 in the base roster are . Even with DLC we still have who are relatively simple.

say what about samus' ice weapons? theyre pretty important in a lot of her games

or were they a custom move last time and ive just forgot?

They weren't.

 

[Quillion]

I'm not sure you can say that for the base Smash Ultimate newcomers. The only complex newcomers out of the 11 in the base roster are . Even with DLC we still have who are relatively simple.

I said a lot of the Smash 4 and on newcomers, not all of them.

 

[fogbadge]

They weren't.

there you go then samus' ice weapons fall into this category for definite

 

[Quillion]

Again, why do people want to clutter and overcomplicate Samus so much? Yes, she has a lot more iconic abilities than shown in Smash, but that's the thing: they're more than she has room for in Smash.

 

[fogbadge]

Again, why do people want to clutter and overcomplicate Samus so much? Yes, she has a lot more iconic abilities than shown in Smash, but that's the thing: they're more than she has room for in Smash.

what’s wrong with giving her some ice missiles? Besides you make room by removing old moves

besides isn’t this the very point of the thread? Ice attacks are how she fights the enemies the series is named for and their absence in smash would indicate disregarding

 

[Quillion]

what’s wrong with giving her some ice missiles? Besides you make room by removing old moves

besides isn’t this the very point of the thread? Ice attacks are how she fights the enemies the series is named for and their absence in smash would indicate disregarding

Revamping missiles into Ice Missiles actually doesn't sound too bad considering they're being brought into Dread, and that would just be a rework of a move rather than an out-and-out replacement. That said, I still believe that ice mechanics need to be universally reworked so that they can be interesting to fight with and balanced all at once instead of being rather random. If they're not willing to do that, the missiles need to stay where they are.

 

[fogbadge]

Revamping missiles into Ice Missiles actually doesn't sound too bad considering they're being brought into Dread, and that would just be a rework of a move rather than an out-and-out replacement. That said, I still believe that ice mechanics need to be universally reworked so that they can be interesting to fight with and balanced all at once instead of being rather random. If they're not willing to do that, the missiles need to stay where they are.

well theres no way of knowing how they would do this. even in the case of a hypothetical i struggle to think how theyd do it

 

[Quillion]

well theres no way of knowing how they would do this. even in the case of a hypothetical i struggle to think how theyd do it

I was thinking they could build up frozeness with several attacks, and if the opponent is frozen beyond a certain threshold, they would be encased in a block of ice. Of course, frozeness would deteriorate over time if not hit by any ice attacks.

 

[fogbadge]

I was thinking they could build up frozeness with several attacks, and if the opponent is frozen beyond a certain threshold, they would be encased in a block of ice. Of course, frozeness would deteriorate over time if not hit by any ice attacks.

that could work

 

[Perkilator]

I made a hypothetical rework for Kirby.

 

[Quillion]

I made a hypothetical rework for Kirby.

You still make the mistake of every other Kirby rework that his moveset becomes overcomplicated. It would be like if Mario, basicness personified, had more "power-up"-based moves.

 

[Perkilator]

You still make the mistake of every other Kirby rework that his moveset becomes overcomplicated. It would be like if Mario, basicness personified, had more "power-up"-based moves.

I didn't over-complicate anything. Over-complicating it would be making it a more gimmicky moveset like, to the top of my head, the more recent newcomers. This Kirby rework I did was made to be as simple as possible while adding more variety.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

I don't see why every move Kirby has needs to be an actual copy ability attack. The Smash Bros. ability exists in a few Kirby games, has a decent amount of the actual copy ability moves Kirby has in SSB, and even Twinkle Star (AKA Kirby's neutral air) is included with that copy ability. Therefore, SSB Kirby is pretty much just an extended version of the Smash Bros. ability, and if anything, would actually make SSB Kirby less canon, because now he would just have spontaneous access to many of his copy abilities on a whim rather than "he's just using that one special canon copy ability he has".

Not saying you can't replace some of the more basic moves (Kirby definitely could use his slide as his down tilt), but I would at least say keep his neutral air, since, as I said before, is actually canon and makes his moveset more canon than if it wasn't there.

I will say though that I really like the idea of the Hi-Jump being his up special, though maybe not that exact same way as that rework describes it. Feels a lot more like a natural option for an up special than an extremely neutered Final Cutter.

 

[Quillion]

Before anyone points to how Mega Man as an example of how Kirby can have more copy abilities in his moveset, I think Mega Man's moveset is on the verge of being overcomplicated and cluttered as well.

 

[Perkilator]

Before anyone points to how Mega Man as an example of how Kirby can have more copy abilities in his moveset, I think Mega Man's moveset is on the verge of being overcomplicated and cluttered as well.

People just wanna see their favorite characters do more of what they do in the games. Dassit.

This doesn't have to apply for every single character, but I really don't appreciate you calling it "overcomplicated" or "cluttered" when it's meant to be a bit of love towards that character.