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What’s the silliest Smash argument you’ve heard? - Read OP

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Rocketjay8

Smash Journeyman
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Sep 14, 2018
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370
Look at my title on for Smashboards. I have been on here for Brawl and Wii U. I wasn't dissatisfied with either. This is the only one that has really made me sour. Brawl, IMO, did the best job on marketing, character roster, final game, etc. It had so much!!! Too bad the professional crowd whined so much about the gameplay.

Rocketjay8 Rocketjay8 I have been too hard on Isabella and I am sorry. I am sure she is fun to play and I am happy she made it for you. Frustrating to see some of the other characters not get a pep. Also the Single Player mode is making me less thrilled about the game.

Regarding the third-party argument, I would agree that there was challenges in the Brawl era but I think third-parties see it as a boon to have their characters in Smash now. The owners of Bethesda, Microsoft, and Ubisoft have all came out saying they would like characters from their franchises in Smash. I disagree that Banjo is being held up by the third-party as Microsoft's owner has come out and said he wouldn't mind having Banjo in Smash. I think that excuse was valid in Brawl era but not anymore. Sonic and Snake sold the idea to the rest of the video game community and adding icons like Megaman, Pacman, Cloud, and Ryu only blew it up further.

I feel like Sakurai really needs to consider at least Rayman after only giving him trophies in Smash 4. Also I don't understand how you can get a costume of Geno but not Geno himself from an IP perspective. (Frankly I do think Geno will be one of the five DLC).

However, if I was in charge of Smash and I wanted to sell games and generate hype, I would have gone after Masterchief from Halo. None of the third-party options would generate the buzz that Masterchief would generate and it would target an audience who likely doesn't even play Smash currently.
Apology accepted.
 

Dee Dude

“Never ask Dee for anything again”
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People have revived the stupid “relevancy” argument since Isaac got deconfirmed, Banjo & Geno didn’t make it, while a Gen 7 Pokemon and a recurring Mario enemy did, apparently K.Rool doesn’t count anymore due to being a “villain” rep.

Is there a number greater then infinity for how many times I can facepalm?

"Geno deserves to be in Smash."

Hoo boy. Geno was a SIDE character in one game! He isn't iconic, nor was he important, and there's not much for a moveset!
Not only that, only old Nintendo fans want Geno, and that won't help bring in any new customers. Geno is a relic of the past. Deal with it.
People are still using the “no moveset potential” argument even after a f***ing Piranha Plant got added???
 

KickleCubiclist

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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152
“Any criticsm in a CHARACTER DISCUSSION board is trolling”
Good god.
(Also the Waluigi thing)
 

Mogisthelioma

Smash Master
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Someone recently tried to tell me that since Kirby was important in the WoL cutscene, "most people" would be fine if Kirby didn't get another newcomer since it's a sign of major recognition.
 
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KickleCubiclist

Smash Apprentice
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Someone recently tried to tell me that since Kirby was important in the WoL cutscene, "most people" would be fine if Kirby didn't get another newcomer since it's a sign of major recognition.
Literally the most requested character at this point.




sigh
 
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Ryu_Ken

Ace Adventurer and Truth Seeker
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"Spirits mode is just the combination of Smash Tour and Smash Run. It's going to be a completely forgettable mode."

Also, "There's not enough fighters in Ultimate."
 

Rocketjay8

Smash Journeyman
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Someone recently tried to tell me that since Kirby was important in the WoL cutscene, "most people" would be fine if Kirby didn't get another newcomer since it's a sign of major recognition.

Dude, please don't use autism as an insult and or joke.
 
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Mogisthelioma

Smash Master
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I can think of a lot of dumb arguments I see for some of Smash's most popular fighters requests:
1. Isaac and Shantae don't have a good or long history with Nintendo or represent their genre of games in any good way. They are not gaming, or indie, icons, and wouldn't represent much.
2. Geno is not in any way a gaming icon and would act more as a flavor-of-the-month fighter than another high request.
3. All a Sonic echo would do is add one more annoying moveset to the game. Same for a Bayo echo.
4. There is no way XC2 could have been represented as a fighter, the final roster was decided upon while the game was still in development. WHY ARE SO MANY PEOPLE UNWILLING TO ACCEPT THIS.
5. Spring man, for the same reason as a XC2 rep, had little chance as a fighter.
6. The Black Knight would have been yet another FE clone and not add anything new to Smash.
7. Steve from Minecraft would do more to attract little kids into playing Smash than make older players happy.

It's gone. Sorry, I was in a terrible mood.
 

TheTrueBrawler

Smash Demon
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:ultsheik: should be removed because we have a character who plays like him already. :ultgreninja:.
:ultyounglink: is a less known clone of :ulttoonlink: and shouldn’t have even been in Smash Melee, let alone Smash Ultimate.
Boshi would be a terrible addition because :ultmario:'s games and :ultyoshi:'s games are unpopular.
:ultwario: should get a newcomer this game. Ashley would be a great addition.
Wait, WHAT. WHO SAID THIS.
Some random person on GameFAQ who made his account that day.
 
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Sabertooth

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
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621
I still deal with people who are adamant that certain characters just could not be playable. Like mere moments after the Piranha Plant reveal, I was debating this guy whether or not they could make Goomba playable. Why don't people just accept that Sakurai can do whatever he wants?
 

CrimsonFlash

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 10, 2018
Messages
66
Smash ultimate doesn't need dlc because then it wouldn't be "ultimate"

this argument baffles me every time I see it, there is always room for more and I see no good reason to keep adding more.

also, piranha plant is designed to be out there and weird, let's have this conversation when tethis gets in.
 

Mogisthelioma

Smash Master
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One thing I don't understand is the idea that assist trophies have to be playable. While I fully support the new Waluigi thread, I am willing to accept that it's probably not going to happen. Isaac, Spring-Man, Skull Kid, Lyn, and Black Knight included.
 
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KickleCubiclist

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 6, 2018
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152
So, I took a trip through GameFaqs, and here's what I found.
-"Does anyone realize how obvious that the Square Enix rep is Geno"
AND YOU KNOW WHAT HIS EVIDENCE IS
"There's more evidence for Geno than there is for Sora."
That was their actual evidence. I wish I was kidding.
-"Sakurai could add a piece of poop as playable and people would defend that s***. "
As you can tell, this is against Piranha Plant. But they are implying that Sakurai can't do anything for himself.
The icing on the cake...
-"It's hiz gaem and he duznt owe you anything!1!!"
He is basically saying that Sakurai is his slave, and that Sakurai is in debt to us. I hate life sometimes.
-INTERMISSION
Just a quick side note while I was browsing GameFaqs I saw someone say Sonichu was canon since Pikachu and Sonic were both running together and I thought that was pretty funny. Intermission over.
-"Incineroar haters, you wouldnt hate it if it wasn't a Pokémon"
This is pretty self explanatory as to why it sucks. MAYBE WE DIDN'T WANT ANOTHER GENERIC CHARACTER HUH. (Don't call me a hypocrite though still extremely happy with Sakurai).
-"Why we have to wait until Dec 7th?"
Game development doesn't exist anymore, don't worry! Duke Nukem Forever was my favorite N64 game!
 

AIM0001

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Messages
1,152
Sora gets in over Geno!

Yeah, I said it!

#GENO #DLCRevealNumberOne
 

Crystanium

Smash Hero
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California
SSBU isn't going to be good now because Spirits didn't meet my expectations of what I had hoped for - another Sub-Space Emissary. Damn Sakurai for not being responsible for the number of videos I watched and articles I read that I naively believed. It's all his fault that certain fans led me into believing Skull Kid or Geno would be playable characters. I'm not going to take personal responsibility for my gullibility. I give SSBU - a game I have yet to play - 0 out of 10.
 

TheTrueBrawler

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:ultgnw: and :ultrob: should be assist trophies. They’re too old, and one doesn’t even have a dedicated franchise.
Fire Emblem fighters like :ultmarth: and :ultroy: should be removed. Their games either aren’t popular or are too old.
Lets not only keep :ultlucina: and :ultchrom:, but let’s also add more characters from FE Awakening.
:ultlucario: and :ultisabelle: are furries. We should show a video of them being executed in the next direct, then remove them.
- being a spirit confirms a character
I was literally just about to say this one too.
 
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CodakTheWarrior

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
548
SSBU isn't going to be good now because Spirits didn't meet my expectations of what I had hoped for - another Sub-Space Emissary. Damn Sakurai for not being responsible for the number of videos I watched and articles I read that I naively believed. It's all his fault that certain fans led me into believing Skull Kid or Geno would be playable characters. I'm not going to take personal responsibility for my gullibility. I give SSBU - a game I have yet to play - 0 out of 10.
:ultgnw: and :ultrob: should be assist trophies. They’re too old, and one doesn’t even have a dedicated franchise.
Fire Emblem fighters like :ultmarth: and :ultroy: should be removed. Their games either aren’t popular or are too old.
Lets not only keep :ultlucina: and :ultchrom:, but let’s also add more characters from FE Awakening.
:ultlucario: and :ultisabelle: are furries. We should show a video of them being executed in the next direct, then remove them.

I was literally just about to say this one too.

Hooooo boy I thought this was the unpopular opinions thread for a hot minute there and I was incredibly confused lol
 

ps_

Banned via Warnings
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"Piranha Plant got in, so that means anybody can."
I'm not a fan of the plant, but it does have:

  • History (it's in the very first Mario game and almost every game after that.)
  • Moves (there's many different species of pirahna plant and they've all done different things.)
  • An iconic look (taken for granted, but a piranha plant will make anyone think of Mario or Nintendo.)
  • Underdog status (it's a nameless rank-and-file enemy surrounded by iconic characters... and Corrin.)

Is it a left field addition? Yes. Is it totally undeserving of a spot on the roster? No, not really. If you want to argue any ****-tier "Literally who?" character can make it into Smash's roster just look at Incineroar instead.
 

Oddball

Smash Lord
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Just a quick side note while I was browsing GameFaqs I saw someone say Sonichu was canon since Pikachu and Sonic were both running together and I thought that was pretty funny. Intermission over.
Sega's official Sonic blog has acknowledged the existence of Sonichu on a few different occasions. One time in the "ask Dr. Robotnik" thing they were doing, he was asked which one of Sonic's friends would he kill if he could kill any of them. Guess who he picked.
 

ZephyrZ

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"Piranha Plant got in, so that means anybody can."
I'm not a fan of the plant, but it does have:

  • History (it's in the very first Mario game and almost every game after that.)
  • Moves (there's many different species of pirahna plant and they've all done different things.)
  • An iconic look (taken for granted, but a piranha plant will make anyone think of Mario or Nintendo.)
  • Underdog status (it's a nameless rank-and-file enemy surrounded by iconic characters... and Corrin.)

Is it a left field addition? Yes. Is it totally undeserving of a spot on the roster? No, not really. If you want to argue any ****-tier "Literally who?" character can make it into Smash's roster just look at Incineroar instead.
I agree with your argument but no need to throw shade at Incineroar, starter Pokemon are iconic by default. I don't keep track of the anime but people are expecting Ash to have on by the end of the Sun / Moon series to. Corrin is also iconic, even if they're controversial both in Smash and their own series.
 

EricTheGamerman

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
3,197
I can think of a lot of dumb arguments I see for some of Smash's most popular fighters requests:
1. Isaac and Shantae don't have a good or long history with Nintendo or represent their genre of games in any good way. They are not gaming, or indie, icons, and wouldn't represent much.
2. Geno is not in any way a gaming icon and would act more as a flavor-of-the-month fighter than another high request.
3. All a Sonic echo would do is add one more annoying moveset to the game. Same for a Bayo echo.
The others I'm more inclined to believe in, but these three points I don't see as dumb arguments.

1. I'll give you Shantae. But Isaac is just another first party franchise, and first party franchises shouldn't have to demonstrate their worth to be in the Nintendo fighting game in my opinion. He's not an icon, but he's from one of Nintendo's standard RPG series. Xenoblade is an action RPG, Fire Emblem is a strategy RPG, and Pokemon is turn based like Golden Sun, but more focused on the monster collection at the end of the day. Only Mother actually represents classic turn based RPGs, so I don't see why there isn't room to include another representative. Especially when he could play unique with powers centering on the various psynergies. Again, he's Nintendo, he doesn't need to be iconic to get in because Nintendo characters haven't needed to.

2. Flavor-of-the-month? I know he's not a gaming icon, but that's way too harsh of a character that had massive support during Brawl and has renewed support during this game, only dipping in Smash 4 due to it seeming impossible. He's not relevant or an icon, but he's much like Bayonetta as a pseudo first party due to his inherent creation. And again, he's been a flavor of the month character for many months if you're going to call him that. His support hasn't died over the years, and people still want him in to this day. Even Sakurai commented on the requests. He's just a popular character. Weirdly specific, irrelevant, and far from an icon? Sure. But he's a video game character with some more concrete ties to Nintendo than most third parties that is heavily requested.

3. I mean Sonic isn't inherently broken or anything, and Bayonetta seems toned back. The Echo fighters wouldn't be adding much trouble to anything other than giving fans of those Echoes a shot, right? Echoes, at least for me, are harmless, but I can see if you hate the characters I suppose you don't want more of them.

I don't think Geno or Isaac are particularly iconic or the greatest representatives of their respective genres, but they are highly requested characters who have stuck around through the years at this point as community requests. I don't see the issue with including them because they're the sort of popular characters who deserve to get in after years of support, just like Bandanna Dee also deserves a spot after his years of support. He's more than proven himself as a contender in Smash speculation and fan requests by staying through the past game's cycle and only growing from there.

I'm just saying, don't call a character with a long-standing fan base flavor of the month (as illogical or undeserving as you may think that character might be). They've proven they're at least more than that by sticking around for years and holding on to hope as mostly decent communities (And they've been through the ringer more than enough due to the irrelevancy dogs anyway).
 

ZephyrZ

But.....DRAGONS
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"Echoes just bloat the roster".

This has been addressed. There's an option to "combine" their character slots so they don't add to roster clutter if you don't want them to.

"Sakurai was forced to add Corrin / Bayonetta / Incineroar / *Insert character here*".

It's funny how most people who say this are people who have some sort of personal grudge against said character. I've even see it suggested that Piranha Plant was added as Sakurai's response to being "forced" to make a "preorder bonus" (PP isn't even a true preorder bonus). Every character in the roster has some sort of effort or love put into their inclusion, such as Corrin's side special pinning the ground, Incineroar's poses, or Bayonetta's everything. Even PP has a lot of creative moves and echoes have small personalized touches. To suggest that poor Sakurai was being held at gunpoint to add them againat his will undermines the genuine effort and respect that is poored into their inclusion. Sometimes Sakurai is going to make a decision you disagree with, but that doesn't mean he was forced to, it just means that he simply has different ideas then you as to what makes a good character pick.
 
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Lime3037

Smash Journeyman
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A guy I was once friends with claimed he owned Brawl. I didn't get it until about a week later.
I asked him if he unlocked Wolf, and he said no. Then I asked if he played Falco.
"Yeah man. He can fly!"
"You mean, in his Arwing?"
"Huh? No, with his wings."
"Um, no. That's not right."
"What do you know? You don't own the game."
Not only did he lie about owning the game, but he apparently never played Star Fox. It wouldn't have been so bad if we weren't High School Freshmen.

I also think "Literally Who?" is obnoxious, regardless what/who it's about. It's 2018, Google exists, and other research tools are more helpful than ever. You don't look cool saying it.
 
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TheYungLink

Smash Lord
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1,454
"Sakurai OWES us--"

I always tune out after those three words. Doesn't matter what comes afterwards, the Smash team doesn't owe us ANYTHING.

If anything, the Smash team owed it to themselves to find a way to tell off those self-important "fans". If Piranha Plant, aside from being a fun addition, is partially a way to tell them off, then that just makes Piranha Plant's inclusion all the sweeter.
 

EricTheGamerman

Smash Master
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"Sakurai OWES us--"

I always tune out after those three words. Doesn't matter what comes afterwards, the Smash team doesn't owe us ANYTHING.

If anything, the Smash team owed it to themselves to find a way to tell off those self-important "fans". If Piranha Plant, aside from being a fun addition, is partially a way to tell them off, then that just makes Piranha Plant's inclusion all the sweeter.
No, he doesn't owe us anything, and we don't owe him anything either. Smash is a product at the end of the day, and we decided to buy it on our own personal assessments. But as a product, we're also allowed to voice our opinion on what we want and be disappointed when those concerns aren't addressed. I've seen this come up a lot recently, and it always seems to be dealing with some underlying notion that Sakurai and company should just create the game they want without regard for the fans' desires.

Where they may "owe" it to us is to make a product that is worth buying. And that's going to vary widely from individual from individual and not everybody will be satisfied obviously. But I think we as consumers are obliged to some power within that dynamic and are allowed to expect certain things from a product if we're to invest in it.

I mean, I'd agree that this is one of the cases where there's a ton of value within the game, and should be able to satisfy a LOT of people. But when you specifically market something as the "Ultimate" Smash Bros and speak of "for the fans", you're going to invite a lot more of that consumer demand from you as a creator. You're trying to sell them the idealism in a perfect Smash game, and their expectations are going to develop accordingly. Especially if you support Smash games every entry and you're starting to get fed up with being a voice that isn't heard, especially if you're a voice in a much larger collective that is continually ignored.

It's a weird dynamic at the end of the day, because Sakurai and his team are trying to be artists and express their own creative freedom, but they aren't allowed it entirely because they do have to make something that people want to buy and won't be upsetting or disappointing. While I don't think there is necessarily anything definitively "owed" from one party or the other, there is a sort of mutual understanding between parties that when not met I think allows for that judgment to come into play.

I'm not really criticizing you as trying to say I think there is a lot more to the situation than you're implying. That said, I doubt many people are thinking this deeply about it when they generally make those claims and are mostly just acting out of entitlement they already have.



Also, the most ridiculous argument I personally see for or against characters are:
1. This character pisses people off, so I love it.
2. People love this character and support it all the time, I hate it.

When you're basing your opinion of a character entirely on what other people are feeling, you actually have no relation to that character or understanding of it. You're enjoying either being a contrarian or the disdain of others in a topic. That sort of thing doesn't even feel like it should be related to how people react to characters in my mind.
 

KickleCubiclist

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
152
Sega's official Sonic blog has acknowledged the existence of Sonichu on a few different occasions. One time in the "ask Dr. Robotnik" thing they were doing, he was asked which one of Sonic's friends would he kill if he could kill any of them. Guess who he picked.
I know, I just thought it was funny.
 
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