• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Weight Lists

Mew2King

King of the Mews
Joined
Jul 18, 2002
Messages
11,263
Location
Cinnaminson (southwest NJ 5 min drive from Philly)
Average Weight - average between Marth's Fair and Marth's Uair. A star * means it's a tie, but in that situation I rank them in order of vertical living ability because most KOs in brawl at high level play is upwards. This should at least give a rough estimate in how long characters can live I guess.


Fair ... Uair .. Avg
168 ... 164 ... 166 ..... DK
161 ... 170 ... 165.5 ... DDD
165 ... 165 ... 165 ..... Snake *
170 ... 160 ... 165 ..... Bowser *






~ massive gap






159 ... 157 ... 158 ..... Ganon
157 ... 158 ... 157.5 ... C.Falcon *
162 ... 153 ... 157.5 ... Charizard *
158 ... 156 ... 157 ..... Ike
161 ... 152 ... 156.5 ... Wario
161 ... 151 ... 156 ..... Yoshi
162 ... 149 ... 155.5 ... Samus
156 ... 154 ... 155 ..... Link


155 ... 152 ... 153.5 ... Wolf

155 ... 150 ... 152.5 ... ROB




153 ... 147 ... 150 ..... Ivysaur *
155 ... 145 ... 150 ..... Lucario *



152 ... 144 ... 148 ..... Mario

150 ... 144 ... 147 ..... Sonic
150 ... 143 ... 146.5 ... Luigi
149 ... 143 ... 146 ..... Pit
150 ... 141 ... 145.5 ... Ness

149 ... 140 ... 144.5 ... Lucas
147 ... 141 ... 144 ..... Diddy *
148 ... 140 ... 144 ..... Toon Link *



144 ... 140 ... 142 ..... Marth
146 ... 137 ... 141.5 ... Ice Climbers


146 ... 134 ... 140 ..... Peach






137 ... 136 ... 136.5 ... Falco *
142 ... 131 ... 136.5 ... Zelda *
139 ... 133 ... 136 ..... Olimar

138 ... 132 ... 135 ..... ZSS
138 ... 131 ... 134.5 ... Sheik
136 ... 132 ... 134 ..... Pikachu



136 ... 128 ... 132 ..... Kirby
135 ... 128 ... 131.5 ... Metaknight

133 ... 128 ... 130.5 ... Fox

134 ... 125 ... 129.5 ... GW



133 ... 122 ... 127.5 ... Squirtle








129 ... 117 ... 123 ..... Jigglypuff

-----

Horizontal Weight - how heavy characters are horizontally. This list is the most accurate for practical use, as I mash double jump as much as possible while holding toward the stage, which, in ACTUAL fights, this is what any smart person would do to live as long as possible. Double jumping causes characters to kill some of their momentum, allowing them to live longer, although some double jumps kill momentum better than others. Sadly for me (as a DDD main), DDD doesn't kill his momentum with his double jumping very much so he doesn't really live as long as characters lighter than him, such as Samus, Charizard and Yoshi. Same thing with Metaknight, and the list is different slightly to what it should be because of this, but this list is USEFUL because it's HOW LONG YOU ACTUALLY LIVE LEFT/RIGHT in REAL MATCHES! Although Zelda and Sheik may technically be the same weight, Zelda's double jump kills her momentum better so in actual matches, she will live longer (sideways) than Sheik will.

*this is all based as Marth attacking all characters from the center of FD on "Control" setting then me mashing double jump while holding left toward the stage and retesting everything many times so it's 100% accurate.
*originally I tested it vs computers on "Stop" so that they would automatically double jump as soon as possible, but when I was like 80% done testing all the characters that way I realized this was wrong and inaccurate to what would truely be useful, so i redid the entire thing over again the way I just stated above.
*note at lower %s Marth's F smash becomes stronger than his up B, but until then Up B is stronger, but that doesn't apply to this list really.
*if there is a > that means that the character to the left of the > has the greater actual weight (without double jumping) if they happen to tie in the 3 moves that I tested.
*when recovering with Peach remember to hold toward the stage and not upwards as you mash double jump, because if you don't hold toward then you'll accidentally float and that won't kill momentum.
*Lucario's Dair does not make him live longer.
*Marth is the lightest character DDD can CG (although I usually prefer not to as it's annoying to not mess up, I prefer hoping the other Marth dodges or up Bs so I can get a Dash attack or F smash in), but he can't CG because Zelda's true weight is less than Marth's, also I think Zelda is a good choice to counter DDD with overall, just throwing that out there.
*practical weight is very similar, the difference between Jiggs and Bowser is only like 1.31x times

Fair .. Up B .. F Smash
170 ... 159 ... 156 ..... Bowser
168 ... 158 ... 155 ..... DK
165 ... 154 ... 152 ..... Snake
162 ... 152 ... 149 ..... Charizard > Samus
161 ... 152 ... 149 ..... Yoshi
161 ... 151 ... 148 ..... DDD > Wario
159 ... 149 ... 146 ..... Ganon
158 ... 148 ... 145 ..... Ike
157 ... 148 ... 145 ..... C.Falcon
156 ... 145 ... 143 ..... Link
155 ... 145 ... 143 ..... Lucario
155 ... 145 ... 142 ..... ROB > Wolf
153 ... 143 ... 140 ..... Ivysaur
152 ... 143 ... 140 ..... Mario
150 ... 141 ... 138 ..... Luigi > Sonic > Ness
149 ... 140 ... 137 ..... Lucas
149 ... 139 ... 137 ..... Pit
148 ... 138 ... 136 ..... Toon Link
147 ... 137 ... 135 ..... Diddy
146 ... 136 ... 134 ..... Ice Climbers > Peach
144 ... 135 ... 132 ..... Marth
142 ... 133 ... 131 ..... Zelda
139 ... 130 ... 128 ..... Olimar
138 ... 130 ... 127 ..... ZSS
138 ... 129 ... 127 ..... Sheik
137 ... 128 ... 126 ..... Falco
136 ... 127 ... 125 ..... Pikachu > Kirby
135 ... 126 ... 123 ..... Metaknight
134 ... 126 ... 123 ..... GW
133 ... 124 ... 122 ..... Fox > Squirtle
129 ... 121 ... 119 ..... Jigglypuff

or you can use this

...... Fair .. Up B .. F Smash
...... 170 ... 159 ... 156 ..... Bowser
+4
...... 168 ... 158 ... 155 ..... DK
+10
...... 165 ... 154 ... 152 ..... Snake
+8
...... 162 ... 152 ... 149 ..... Charizard > Samus
+1
...... 161 ... 152 ... 149 ..... Yoshi
+2
...... 161 ... 151 ... 148 ..... DDD > Wario
+6
...... 159 ... 149 ... 146 ..... Ganon
+3
...... 158 ... 148 ... 145 ..... Ike
+1
...... 157 ... 148 ... 145 ..... C.Falcon
+6
...... 156 ... 145 ... 143 ..... Link
+1
...... 155 ... 145 ... 143 ..... Lucario
+1
...... 155 ... 145 ... 142 ..... ROB > Wolf
+6
...... 153 ... 143 ... 140 ..... Ivysaur
+1
...... 152 ... 143 ... 140 ..... Mario
+6
...... 150 ... 141 ... 138 ..... Luigi > Sonic > Ness
+3
...... 149 ... 140 ... 137 ..... Lucas
+1
...... 149 ... 139 ... 137 ..... Pit
+3
...... 148 ... 138 ... 136 ..... Toon Link
+3
...... 147 ... 137 ... 135 ..... Diddy
+3
...... 146 ... 136 ... 134 ..... Ice Climbers > Peach
+5
...... 144 ... 135 ... 132 ..... Marth
+5
...... 142 ... 133 ... 131 ..... Zelda
+9
...... 139 ... 130 ... 128 ..... Olimar
+2
...... 138 ... 130 ... 127 ..... ZSS
+1
...... 138 ... 129 ... 127 ..... Sheik
+3
...... 137 ... 128 ... 126 ..... Falco
+3
...... 136 ... 127 ... 125 ..... Pikachu > Kirby
+4
...... 135 ... 126 ... 123 ..... Metaknight
+1
...... 134 ... 126 ... 123 ..... GW
+4
...... 133 ... 124 ... 122 ..... Fox > Squirtle
+10
...... 129 ... 121 ... 119 ..... Jigglypuff

same thing

-----

Weight Rankings - ranks characters in order by weight. This was tested with Falco's forward tilt vs a metal coat opponent in training mode, seeing what % it takes to knock them down. The amount these vary by is stressed about double of what it actually is (Jiggs vs Bowser in my other horizontal Weight list has a 1.31x times difference while this one is 1.60 X difference from Jiggs to Bowser) but it is a good way to show the difference between 2 characters (even if nearly doubled by the actual %age difference it should be) and ranks them in order perfectly of how they were programmed for those who were curious. A > means the character to the left of the > lives longer horizontally based off my other horizontal weight test (which involves double jumping ASAP while holding toward the stage), but if they are next to each other that obviously means their programmed weight is the exact same.

*basically, use this list just for the rankings, the Jigglypuff to Bowser difference is nearly twice as great as it should be on this list, this is just because I also wanted an accurate "true" weight list.

.....374 Bowser
+11
.....363 DK
+8
.....355 Snake
+3
.....352 DDD
+5
.....347 Charizard
+3
.....344 Ganon
+2
.....342 Samus
+3
.....339 Wario > Yoshi
+3
.....336 ROB
+2
.....334 Ike
+3
.....331 C.Falcon > Link
+6
.....325 Wolf
+5
.....320 Lucario > Ivysaur
+5
.....315 Mario
+3
.....312 Luigi
+5
.....307 Sonic
+3
.....304 Pit > Ness > Lucas
+3
.....301 Diddy
+2
.....299 Toon Link > Ice Climbers
+6
.....293 Peach
+8
.....285 Marth
+5
.....280 Zelda > Sheik
+8
.....272 Falco > Olimar
+3
.....269 ZSS
+3
.....266 Fox
+2
.....264 Pikachu > Metaknight
+3
.....261 Kirby
+8
.....253 GW > Squirtle
+19
.....234 Jigglypuff

-----

Vertical Weight List - tested Marth's Uair then DDDs up tilt

170 122 ... DDD
165 119 ... Snake
164 118 ... DK
160 115 ... Bowser
158 114 ... C.Falcon
157 113 ... Ganon
156 112 ... Ike
154 110 ... Link
153 110 ... Charizard
152 109 ... Wario / Wolf
151 108 ... Yoshi
150 107 ... ROB
149 107 ... Samus
147 106 ... Ivysaur
145 104 ... Lucario
144 103 ... Sonic / Mario
143 103 ... Pit
143 102 ... Luigi
141 101 ... Diddy / Ness
140 101 ... Lucas
140 100 ... Marth / Toon Link
137 98 .... ICs
136 97 .... Falco
134 96 .... Peach
133 95 .... Olimar
132 94 .... ZSS / Pikachu
131 94 .... Zelda
131 93 .... Sheik
128 92 .... Fox / Metaknight
128 91 .... Kirby
125 89 .... GW
122 87 .... Squirtle
117 84 .... Jigglypuff


also this list is weird and doesn't follow the pattern right all the time with snake's up throw, but here it is:

*Bowser's sum is the same as C.Falcon's, and they both die at 148 from marth's up tilt and 126 from his reverse up tilt, so I'm just putting Bowser above him anyway
*Snake doesn't throw wolf that hard with up throw, so I'm not counting it in the rankings cuz it's weird. Same thing with Pit/Mario, Marth/Lucas, etc. I'm only putting the Snake stuff in because Magus asked for it to see differences, and I don't really get it either nor do I get why his up tilt is randomly so weird, so whatever.
*i don't know why snakes moves hit bowser slightly harder than they should based off that, it really doesn't make sense to me
*Snake's up tilt hits harder than DDDs every time cept vs another DDD, and for some reason hit Bowser extra hard, also does more damage, has much more range and priority, and less total time >_>

Marths Uair / Snakes Up Throw / Snakes Up tilt (close range) / DDD Up tilt

170 243 123 122 ... DDD
165 236 119 119 ... Snake
164 233 118 118 ... DK
160 224 113 115 ... Bowser
158 226 114 114 ... C.Falcon
157 223 112 113 ... Ganon
156 223 112 112 ... Ike
154 219 110 110 ... Link
153 213 109 110 ... Charizard
152 216 108 109 ... Wolf
152 210 108 109 ... Wario
151 210 107 108 ... Yoshi
150 205 106 107 ... ROB
149 209 106 107 ... Samus
147 205 105 106 ... Ivysaur
145 205 103 104 ... Lucario
144 203 102 103 ... Sonic
144 201 102 103 ... Mario
143 203 102 103 ... Pit
143 200 101 102 ... Luigi
141 197 100 101 ... Diddy
141 195 100 101 ... Ness
140 194 99 101 .... Lucas
140 200 100 100 ... Marth
140 195 99 100 .... Toon Link
137 190 97 98 ..... ICs
136 193 96 97 ..... Falco
134 189 94 96 ..... Peach
133 184 94 95 ..... Olimar
132 187 93 94 ..... ZSS
132 185 94 94 ..... Pikachu
131 185 93 94 ..... Zelda
131 185 92 93 ..... Sheik
128 181 90 92 ..... Fox
128 177 90 91 ..... Kirby
128 177 91 92 ..... Metaknight
125 173 88 89 ..... GW
122 169 86 87 ..... Squirtle
117 164 82 84 ..... Jigglypuff
 

Yuna

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
10,358
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
There's also the fact that certain characters can move sooner than others because of their inherent stuntine being less. I'm fairly sure it's still like this in Brawl where some characters suffer less hitstun than others.
 

cwjalex

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
202
Location
Brockton
your dedication to smash never fails to amaze me m2k...and yeah, give us hit stun time too lol
 

Magus420

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
4,541
Location
Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
You should test vertical throw KO percents and see if they follow the vertical attack KO rankings or not. Throws in Melee completely ignored weight, so if they still do you could measure fall speed 'weight' with them like you could before (like how in Melee Falco lived the longest off the top from throws but CF did for attacks since attacks also factored in weight with fall speed).
 

Doc Chronic

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Messages
639
Location
Richmond, VA
wow, this is very thorough, excellent work M2K.

also, "Location: Cinnaminson, NJ", dude i am there all the time haha, my grandparents and like 80% of my extended family live there, what a small world.
 

D13

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
719
Location
up and left
This is stuff is really good to know. Thanks for taking the time to figure all this out, M2K.
 

Mew2King

King of the Mews
Joined
Jul 18, 2002
Messages
11,263
Location
Cinnaminson (southwest NJ 5 min drive from Philly)
this list is weird and doesn't follow the pattern right all the time with snake's up throw, but here it is:

*bowsers sum is the same as falcons, and they both die at 148 from marth's up tilt and 126 from his reverse up tilt, so I'm just putting Bowser above him anyway
*Snake doesn't throw wolf that hard with up throw, so I'm not counting it in the rankings cuz it's weird. Same thing with Pit/Mario, Marth/Lucas, etc. I'm only putting the Snake stuff in because Magus asked for it to see differences, and I don't really get it either nor do I get why his up tilt is randomly so weird, so whatever.
*i don't know why snakes moves hit bowser slightly harder than they should based off that, it really doesn't make sense to me
*Snake's up tilt hits harder than DDDs every time cept vs another DDD, and for some reason hit Bowser extra hard, also does more damage, has much more range and priority, and less total time >_>

Marths Uair / Snakes Up Throw / Snakes Up tilt (close range) / DDD Up tilt

170 243 123 122 ... DDD
165 236 119 119 ... Snake
164 233 118 118 ... DK
160 224 113 115 ... Bowser
158 226 114 114 ... C.Falcon
157 223 112 113 ... Ganon
156 223 112 112 ... Ike
154 219 110 110 ... Link
153 213 109 110 ... Charizard
152 216 108 109 ... Wolf
152 210 108 109 ... Wario
151 210 107 108 ... Yoshi
150 205 106 107 ... ROB
149 209 106 107 ... Samus
147 205 105 106 ... Ivysaur
145 205 103 104 ... Lucario
144 203 102 103 ... Sonic
144 201 102 103 ... Mario
143 203 102 103 ... Pit
143 200 101 102 ... Luigi
141 197 100 101 ... Diddy
141 195 100 101 ... Ness
140 194 99 101 .... Lucas
140 200 100 100 ... Marth
140 195 99 100 .... Toon Link
137 190 97 98 ..... ICs
136 193 96 97 ..... Falco
134 189 94 96 ..... Peach
133 184 94 95 ..... Olimar
132 187 93 94 ..... ZSS
132 185 94 94 ..... Pikachu
131 185 93 94 ..... Zelda
131 185 92 93 ..... Sheik
128 181 90 92 ..... Fox
128 177 90 91 ..... Kirby
128 177 91 92 ..... Metaknight
125 173 88 89 ..... GW
122 169 86 87 ..... Squirtle
117 164 82 84 ..... Jigglypuff


there magus, i have no idea why it's so weird (not just the up throw, but snake's up tilt too) but there's all the data for you, you can recheck it if you want although i'm pretty sure it's 100% right, it just doesn't make much sense at times and it's stupid.

i spent the last 2 days straight doing stat tests omfg i'm so tired but i have college tonight so i have to stay awake :[
 

Atmapalazzo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
48
:dizzy: wicked info... I'll pretend that I didn't get dizzy and pass out from it's awesomeness and managed to read it all.

Edit: Whoa, you're close by, (I'm in Haddon Heights, NJ)
 

RDK

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
6,390
Holy hell. M2K, you just stole AlphaZealot's "Grand Wizard of Wall of Text" title.

But seriously, sticky this ****. It's a welcome change from all the useless threads in the Brawl Boards, like "NEW ADVANCED TECHNIQUE--B!TCHING AND MOANING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO BASH BRAWL!".
 

Percon

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Messages
1,945
Location
St. Catharines, ON, CA
Very interesting list.

Brawl Tactical Discussion sure has got a lot better than a week ago. This is the third very useful topic here that I find here today.

Anyway, a pat on the back is in order. You sure did a lot of tests.
 

MrSilver

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Messages
1,910
Location
Ede, The Netherlands
Interesting stuff. However like all weight lists based of kill percentages or tests of how far characters fly it does suffer from some inaccuracies. Mostly because you don't separate the effects of weight from other factors that contribute to the survival of characters. It also doesn't account for the fact that only a part of the knock back of a move is affected by weight. This explains why you get some odd results here and there.
 

Doodx

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
497
m2k always full of awesome posts but i thouhjt u mained marth 0.o
 

Johnny B

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
8
this list is weird and doesn't follow the pattern right all the time with snake's up throw, but here it is:

*bowsers sum is the same as falcons, and they both die at 148 from marth's up tilt and 126 from his reverse up tilt, so I'm just putting Bowser above him anyway
*Snake doesn't throw wolf that hard with up throw, so I'm not counting it in the rankings cuz it's weird. Same thing with Pit/Mario, Marth/Lucas, etc. I'm only putting the Snake stuff in because Magus asked for it to see differences, and I don't really get it either nor do I get why his up tilt is randomly so weird, so whatever.
*i don't know why snakes moves hit bowser slightly harder than they should based off that, it really doesn't make sense to me
*Snake's up tilt hits harder than DDDs every time cept vs another DDD, and for some reason hit Bowser extra hard, also does more damage, has much more range and priority, and less total time >_>

Marths Uair / Snakes Up Throw / Snakes Up tilt (close range) / DDD Up tilt

170 243 123 122 ... DDD
165 236 119 119 ... Snake
164 233 118 118 ... DK
160 224 113 115 ... Bowser
158 226 114 114 ... C.Falcon
157 223 112 113 ... Ganon
156 223 112 112 ... Ike
154 219 110 110 ... Link
153 213 109 110 ... Charizard
152 216 108 109 ... Wolf
152 210 108 109 ... Wario
151 210 107 108 ... Yoshi
150 205 106 107 ... ROB
149 209 106 107 ... Samus
147 205 105 106 ... Ivysaur
145 205 103 104 ... Lucario
144 203 102 103 ... Sonic
144 201 102 103 ... Mario
143 203 102 103 ... Pit
143 200 101 102 ... Luigi
141 197 100 101 ... Diddy
141 195 100 101 ... Ness
140 194 99 101 .... Lucas
140 200 100 100 ... Marth
140 195 99 100 .... Toon Link
137 190 97 98 ..... ICs
136 193 96 97 ..... Falco
134 189 94 96 ..... Peach
133 184 94 95 ..... Olimar
132 187 93 94 ..... ZSS
132 185 94 94 ..... Pikachu
131 185 93 94 ..... Zelda
131 185 92 93 ..... Sheik
128 181 90 92 ..... Fox
128 177 90 91 ..... Kirby
128 177 91 92 ..... Metaknight
125 173 88 89 ..... GW
122 169 86 87 ..... Squirtle
117 164 82 84 ..... Jigglypuff


there magus, i have no idea why it's so weird (not just the up throw, but snake's up tilt too) but there's all the data for you, you can recheck it if you want although i'm pretty sure it's 100% right, it just doesn't make much sense at times and it's stupid.

i spent the last 2 days straight doing stat tests i'm so tired but i have college tonight so i have to stay awake :[
Thanks M2K! I've been wondering what the weight comparisons are, especially since we don't have an in-game scale like in the Mushroom Kingdoms of 64 and Melee. However, I think your Kirby and Metaknight are switched around on this list.
 

Mr.Victory07

Smash Lord
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
1,294
Location
Mid-State NY
Very nice. Im surprised how light Marth is and how heavy Yoshi is >.<
And question; was this all tested in training, brawl or both. Because if you account for move decay, could it be different?
 

OmegaXXII

Fire Emblem Lord/ Trophy Hunter
Joined
Jul 4, 2006
Messages
21,469
Location
Houston, Texas!
wow, this thread is so dedicated, it's quite useful I might add

Does anyone but me get bothered when they see how heavy Snake is? It's like he was made to be better than every other character.
because he's a heavyweight with tons of Brawn
 

Talazala

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
422
Location
Philly
Yoshi is heavier than I expected. Also, a sticky should be destributed to this thread. Tis useful.
 
Top Bottom