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Weekly Character Discussion: Pokémon Trainer
- Thread starter Overswarm
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
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- 10,478
PT sux.
Next topic.
Next topic.
DoH
meleeitonme.tumblr.com
Ivysaur is so much fun...until you get off the stage. Wall of bairs to bait attacks + bullet seed set ups is incredibly frustrating
PT was the first character I picked up as a trial main in Brawl.
It did not last long. I couldn't handle the fact that no matter which character I picked, I always had pretty severe limitations. None of the three had good recoveries, squirtle died too early, switching took too **** long, Ivy could get gimped retardedly easily.
Charizard is my favorite of the three, but Bowser is just plain better. I dropped PT when I realized this, picked up Bowser, and satiated my desire to play squirtle by picking up Pikachu and G&W, who are both light and fast, but with better recoveries, better KO potential, better edge guarding, better projectiles, and didn't wear out after 2 minutes.
I hate Ivysaur. His smashes are way stronger than they look, but they are all pretty slow coming out, and really predictable. His Fsmash isn't too slow I guess, but still...just PS and punish.
It did not last long. I couldn't handle the fact that no matter which character I picked, I always had pretty severe limitations. None of the three had good recoveries, squirtle died too early, switching took too **** long, Ivy could get gimped retardedly easily.
Charizard is my favorite of the three, but Bowser is just plain better. I dropped PT when I realized this, picked up Bowser, and satiated my desire to play squirtle by picking up Pikachu and G&W, who are both light and fast, but with better recoveries, better KO potential, better edge guarding, better projectiles, and didn't wear out after 2 minutes.
I hate Ivysaur. His smashes are way stronger than they look, but they are all pretty slow coming out, and really predictable. His Fsmash isn't too slow I guess, but still...just PS and punish.
JesiahTEG
Smash Master
Anyone saying Charizard and Ivysaur are better than Squirtle seriously have something wrong with them.
Squirtle is amazing. His speed and quickness of attackes let him punish pretty much anything. Everytime someone lands he can grab them. After every attack he can punish with at LEAST jab combo. It's not hard for him to get damage because it's hard to hit him if he's being super careful...He can just camp with aerials and grabs until the opponent is at a really high percent, then grab and Dthrow really fast and chances are the opponent won't have a chance to DI it and they'll die. It's pretty strong. His Dair is probably his best punishing move. It hits a ton of times and the last hit is really strong, killing at pretty low-medium percents. I use Waterfall out of shield sometimes because it's not bad...Hmm what else. All of his aerials are great, Dtilt is probably his best ground move. His Smashes are too slow to be used that much IMO.
Squirtle is amazing. His speed and quickness of attackes let him punish pretty much anything. Everytime someone lands he can grab them. After every attack he can punish with at LEAST jab combo. It's not hard for him to get damage because it's hard to hit him if he's being super careful...He can just camp with aerials and grabs until the opponent is at a really high percent, then grab and Dthrow really fast and chances are the opponent won't have a chance to DI it and they'll die. It's pretty strong. His Dair is probably his best punishing move. It hits a ton of times and the last hit is really strong, killing at pretty low-medium percents. I use Waterfall out of shield sometimes because it's not bad...Hmm what else. All of his aerials are great, Dtilt is probably his best ground move. His Smashes are too slow to be used that much IMO.
the rock is too good.
srsly, charizard's rock is crazy. why doesn't he hurt himself?
srsly, charizard's rock is crazy. why doesn't he hurt himself?
Overswarm
is laughing at you
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- May 4, 2005
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- 21,181
Charizard is probably the best overall, although I believe Ivysaur, if used properly, has the most potential of the three. Squirtle is the worst by a significant margin.
Ivysaur can only be used at high%; having him out at low % means you're gonna get gimped. Start off with Squirtle and then switch to Ivysaur after knocking the opponent off the stage or getting the first KO, and suddenly Ivysaur can just DI well and never even have to USE his up+b. His greatest weakness is gone!
His bullet seed is his best move by far, doing a zillion damage (I counted). His f-smash and f-tilt are both pretty good, and his fair can be a surprise KO. While his u-smash, u-air, and dair are all strong, I haven't ever been able to use them in a match successfully on a consistent basis. It feels like they go against Ivysaur's natural flow.
Charizard is like a mini-Bowser. He's a favorite to lead with for most PT players I've seen, and some actually just main this character alone, taking hits to switch straight to him!
His rock smash is epic, his f-tilt is a great poke, and his grab releases are pretty nuts. His fair can be used to gimp fairly well against those with bad recoveries. Other than that, I'm not too big of a fan of his aerials... and I don't even really like his fair. While charizard's options are severely limited, they aren't exactly difficult to pull off.
Squirtle isn't that great. He LOOKS great and definitely has some excellent options, but the decay the receives from simply existing on the field is enough to make him a poor character. Squirtle is my personal favorite to lead, as the first stock generally goes the fastest; this prevents the decay from hurting him unless the opponent is smart and just sits there and waits for squirtle to get tired.
Squirtle's grab game is great, even having a killing throw. His aerials remind me of Jigglypuff in that they are very "in and out", and his dair has decent damage. His u-smash is exactly what you'd want from this character, although a little slow... His recovery is lackluster from below, but from above his over-b can really make an irritating target to edgeguard. His turn around animation is a great movement tool, and he is fast enough to get inside the range of most opponents. That said, the opponent can simply grab the ledge and Squirtle can't do anything. Wait about 2 minutes and it is game over for squirtle. Even if someone didn't want to be on the ledge, Squirtle can ONLY go in and out with his aerials. Landing inside someone is a good way to get rock when you are squirtle, and he isn't heavy enough to take it.
Ivysaur can only be used at high%; having him out at low % means you're gonna get gimped. Start off with Squirtle and then switch to Ivysaur after knocking the opponent off the stage or getting the first KO, and suddenly Ivysaur can just DI well and never even have to USE his up+b. His greatest weakness is gone!
His bullet seed is his best move by far, doing a zillion damage (I counted). His f-smash and f-tilt are both pretty good, and his fair can be a surprise KO. While his u-smash, u-air, and dair are all strong, I haven't ever been able to use them in a match successfully on a consistent basis. It feels like they go against Ivysaur's natural flow.
Charizard is like a mini-Bowser. He's a favorite to lead with for most PT players I've seen, and some actually just main this character alone, taking hits to switch straight to him!
His rock smash is epic, his f-tilt is a great poke, and his grab releases are pretty nuts. His fair can be used to gimp fairly well against those with bad recoveries. Other than that, I'm not too big of a fan of his aerials... and I don't even really like his fair. While charizard's options are severely limited, they aren't exactly difficult to pull off.
Squirtle isn't that great. He LOOKS great and definitely has some excellent options, but the decay the receives from simply existing on the field is enough to make him a poor character. Squirtle is my personal favorite to lead, as the first stock generally goes the fastest; this prevents the decay from hurting him unless the opponent is smart and just sits there and waits for squirtle to get tired.
Squirtle's grab game is great, even having a killing throw. His aerials remind me of Jigglypuff in that they are very "in and out", and his dair has decent damage. His u-smash is exactly what you'd want from this character, although a little slow... His recovery is lackluster from below, but from above his over-b can really make an irritating target to edgeguard. His turn around animation is a great movement tool, and he is fast enough to get inside the range of most opponents. That said, the opponent can simply grab the ledge and Squirtle can't do anything. Wait about 2 minutes and it is game over for squirtle. Even if someone didn't want to be on the ledge, Squirtle can ONLY go in and out with his aerials. Landing inside someone is a good way to get rock when you are squirtle, and he isn't heavy enough to take it.
SamuraiPanda
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 22, 2006
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I think almost everybody has a low-tier character they wish they could use in tournaments. PT is mine. Hopefully I'll get the time to write a bit about him before I move the thread.
Also, I just put up the new hint. Its not as good as I was hoping it would be, 'cause I couldn't spend much time on it, but it gets the job done. I got the idea from a conversation with Ankoku last week :D
Also, I just put up the new hint. Its not as good as I was hoping it would be, 'cause I couldn't spend much time on it, but it gets the job done. I got the idea from a conversation with Ankoku last week :D
Taking the first letter after the word “not” in each sentence spells out two things: ztonk and abnah, each being a different paragraph. Those are Knotz and Hanba spelled backwards, which are the last names of the voice actors (English and Japanese, respectively) for PT.
That clue is ridiculous.
PT is my low tier character of choice, with Charizard being my favorite of the three. In fact, like OS mentioned, sometimes I take hits just to get him out. His rock smash has such a wide and long-lasting hitbox that it makes a great catch-all move as you feel out your opponent's strategy. Gimping with fair works, but you have to get in close since the edge of the fire only does damage, no knockback. f-tilt does indeed make a good poke and I love using down-throw (the coolest throw in the game, btw) to set up other attacks. His aerials are not that great, but you can catch descending opponents off guard with his up-air, since the animation stretches him upwards when it often doesn't look like it will hit. His Smashes are actually pretty solid, but they need to be set up. For instance, after a throw that puts an opponent up on a platform, Charizard can dash into up-smash as they tech. If they shield it, you weaken the shield considerably. If I could main Charizard by himself, I think I just might do it.
PT is my low tier character of choice, with Charizard being my favorite of the three. In fact, like OS mentioned, sometimes I take hits just to get him out. His rock smash has such a wide and long-lasting hitbox that it makes a great catch-all move as you feel out your opponent's strategy. Gimping with fair works, but you have to get in close since the edge of the fire only does damage, no knockback. f-tilt does indeed make a good poke and I love using down-throw (the coolest throw in the game, btw) to set up other attacks. His aerials are not that great, but you can catch descending opponents off guard with his up-air, since the animation stretches him upwards when it often doesn't look like it will hit. His Smashes are actually pretty solid, but they need to be set up. For instance, after a throw that puts an opponent up on a platform, Charizard can dash into up-smash as they tech. If they shield it, you weaken the shield considerably. If I could main Charizard by himself, I think I just might do it.
Who's PT? I call him Ash, I don't care what anybody says. I'll put my commentary soon, I have a lot to say about this one.
pt is cool in theory but bad in practice
i think that about sums him up
his playstyle also continues to 'SEEM' like it should be more fun than it actually is simply because everyone likes the character and the idea so much- there isn't really a lot too him.
the one with the most variety is ivysaur and even ivysaur doesn't have much...
bleh
i think that about sums him up
his playstyle also continues to 'SEEM' like it should be more fun than it actually is simply because everyone likes the character and the idea so much- there isn't really a lot too him.
the one with the most variety is ivysaur and even ivysaur doesn't have much...
bleh
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
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- 10,478
Wow, not much discussion about this one.
PT was greatly hyped prior to Brawl's release. Being able to switch among three unique characters was theoretically the ultimate counterpick to any opponent... but it just didn't work out that way. I agree with Gimpy's post.
PT was greatly hyped prior to Brawl's release. Being able to switch among three unique characters was theoretically the ultimate counterpick to any opponent... but it just didn't work out that way. I agree with Gimpy's post.
my roommate is a pt main and he was excited as all hell about him at first.
then he realized that they get tired after two minutes. and to switch out in combat you have to basically leave yourself open to reciprocation. playing pt is a harsh, thankless job : (
then he realized that they get tired after two minutes. and to switch out in combat you have to basically leave yourself open to reciprocation. playing pt is a harsh, thankless job : (
PT is fun to play, but not too practical. Charizard is good. Ivysaur gets gimped way too easily, and Squirtle is cool.
Charizard rock smash is ridiculous.
I like Squirtle's aerials and tilts for some reason.
Charizard rock smash is ridiculous.
I like Squirtle's aerials and tilts for some reason.
omegablackmage
Certified Lion Rider
people put him second to last and bottom of low on the tier lists, which is just ridiculous.
Squirtle as mention mainly by jesiah, is incredibly at simply not getting hit. Small frame, good air movement, good turtledance, quick aerials, 1 frame jab? all amazing at simply avoiding everything. Lacks kill moves ya, but he can rack damage up really quick and getting that grab shouldn't be too hard.
Ivysaur is not even discussed seriously just because of his recovery. Has a really good projectile and a really annoying bair. These two things make him a really good camper and when you can punish mid to heavy characters with 40 percent for even slight mistakes, really good character. Dash attack is also amazing for kills, don't think thats been mentioned yet.
Charizard, good range and really strong. Rock smash and his fire breath, if landed right can probably do 70 damage combined. Upsmash is a really great smash, as its so fast, as is the dsmash. Bair has a good range to it, great for approaching and edgeguarding. Probably my least favorite pkmn, but still really good.
IMO, at least the top of low tier, so many characters are way worse than pt. Only problem i have with them is how quickly they get tired. Other than that their weaknesses can be easily worked around if you just know how to play them.
Squirtle as mention mainly by jesiah, is incredibly at simply not getting hit. Small frame, good air movement, good turtledance, quick aerials, 1 frame jab? all amazing at simply avoiding everything. Lacks kill moves ya, but he can rack damage up really quick and getting that grab shouldn't be too hard.
Ivysaur is not even discussed seriously just because of his recovery. Has a really good projectile and a really annoying bair. These two things make him a really good camper and when you can punish mid to heavy characters with 40 percent for even slight mistakes, really good character. Dash attack is also amazing for kills, don't think thats been mentioned yet.
Charizard, good range and really strong. Rock smash and his fire breath, if landed right can probably do 70 damage combined. Upsmash is a really great smash, as its so fast, as is the dsmash. Bair has a good range to it, great for approaching and edgeguarding. Probably my least favorite pkmn, but still really good.
IMO, at least the top of low tier, so many characters are way worse than pt. Only problem i have with them is how quickly they get tired. Other than that their weaknesses can be easily worked around if you just know how to play them.
You can say this about any character, really.
But what I'm hearing (and what I can relate to from experience. I too tried to play this character) is that it takes a practiced and experienced player to pull them to the top of low tier. Sounds like bottom tier potential for me.
But I'd agree with middle of low tier, actually.
omegablackmage
Certified Lion Rider
ya i guess your right, i just get upset at how underrated he is
SamuraiPanda
Smash Hero
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- May 22, 2006
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I guess I'll just add a little bit about each of the three. My favorite is Charizard (like many other people), but I don't really know who the best of the three is. I've seen a ton of people claim that its each one of them, but nobody really knows. I feel that each of the characters, alone, would have had a ton of potential... but together they are quite limited. There is a bit of a "myth" about PT that's been going around: For almost every character you play against, PT has one good, one neutral, and one bad matchup. And I find that to be mostly true.
But anyways, I only really wanna focus on stuff that is more unknown than other things, so I'm not gonna talk about the obvious stuff.
Squirtle
- Gets owned by grab release just as bad (if not worse) than Wario. Hell, one grab by Yoshi is an instant death. Not very fun.
- Side-B is really awesome in some situations, but if you get footstooled then you are flung onto your back and you can't move for a bit. Also, they can just hit you and you slide off so fast that you won't be able to recover sometimes.
- Dsmash has very little lag after it. I've come to realize that it's probably one of his best smashes.
- Dair is extremely useful in many situations, although its underused by many people.
- ALWAYS save Dthrow for KOs, because most of his other KO attacks are extremely situational, and its difficult to leave his Fair unstaled (which makes for a very good KO move otherwise).
- Squirtle is so ridiculously small that tons of characters have a difficult time actually hitting him, especially when they're in the air. So sometimes you can just crouch with Squirtle as they approach you, and you're safe from most of their attacks. Plus, his Dtilt isn't half bad (shield pokes some characters rather well).
Ivysaur
- Dtilt is amazing. Shield pokes half the time, its fast as hell, and it has great range. A horribly underused attack.
- You can SDI the first hit of his bullet seed so you'll never get hit by it. Most people I play against consistently SDI out of it, so landing that move on the ground is ridiculously difficult sometimes.
- SH Nair -> bullet seed works at low percents, and its a great way to rack damage. Ivy's Nair is also quite underused, although its great in tons of situations, and can lead to a fair or up air.
- His recovery isn't as bad as, say, Olimar's. This is because of his side-B. Most opponents will grab the ledge while Ivy is far away, and expect him to just die. But you can razor leaf them off the edge and immediately up-B to recover, and his up-B is quite long. The number of gimps that happen will drastically reduce if the Ivysaur player can use the side-B correctly on recovery.
- Pivot grab is very useful because of how fast it is in comparison to his normal grab. Very good for his camping game.
- His jab is like wtf awesome. I've yet to see someone consistently punish Ivy after getting hit by his jab attack.
- Dsmash is sooooo bad, but it can be useful at times for a quick "get away from me" attack when you really need it.
- Landing the KO can be hard with Ivy sometimes. As mentioned by someone else, his dash attack can really help if you get them to a high percent but just can't hit them with a strong attack.
- If you tether and just wait there, he'll make a ridiculously cute wiggling motion and pull himself up.
Charizard
- SO fast on the ground.
- Grab grab grab grab grab. His game is all about that long-as-hell and fast grab.
- Up-smash out of sheild or running up smash (mostly because of his ground speed) are great punishers, and its another relatively underused attack.
- His Fair is horrible for approaching, but his Bair is awesome.
- His Dair has a pretty big disjointed hitbox. I land quite a few spikes because nobody sees it coming. And a full hop dair actually hits most of the taller opponents while they're standing.
- Jab combo is good at times, but best if you jab-jab-grab instead of finishing it.
- Flamethrower is pretty long (because he slightly extends his neck out), and it can be awesome to hit an unsuspecting enemy with it. I LOL everytime someone tries to Melee DI the flamethrower to land behind me but end up taking like 50 damage before they realize that they can't.
- His tilts are surprisingly good for KOs. His Dtilt is pretty fast, so it may be good for poking, although his Ftilt is rather slow despite being better for KOs, so you may want to save the Dtilt instead.
- His slow glide is sometimes necessary because of how medicore his recovery can be.
- Up-B out of shield for some surprise KOs can work sometimes. Its technically supposed to be one of his more powerful KO attacks, but for some reason its difficult to land the last hit, which has the knockback on it.
- Dsmash is rather laggy, but it comes out relatively fast and has a nice disjointed hitbox on it.
Also, for those who don't know, there are different times for how long it takes to switch between the pokemon. Squirtle to Ivysaur takes the longest, and Ivysaur to Charizard is the fastest.
But anyways, I only really wanna focus on stuff that is more unknown than other things, so I'm not gonna talk about the obvious stuff.
Squirtle
- Gets owned by grab release just as bad (if not worse) than Wario. Hell, one grab by Yoshi is an instant death. Not very fun.
- Side-B is really awesome in some situations, but if you get footstooled then you are flung onto your back and you can't move for a bit. Also, they can just hit you and you slide off so fast that you won't be able to recover sometimes.
- Dsmash has very little lag after it. I've come to realize that it's probably one of his best smashes.
- Dair is extremely useful in many situations, although its underused by many people.
- ALWAYS save Dthrow for KOs, because most of his other KO attacks are extremely situational, and its difficult to leave his Fair unstaled (which makes for a very good KO move otherwise).
- Squirtle is so ridiculously small that tons of characters have a difficult time actually hitting him, especially when they're in the air. So sometimes you can just crouch with Squirtle as they approach you, and you're safe from most of their attacks. Plus, his Dtilt isn't half bad (shield pokes some characters rather well).
Ivysaur
- Dtilt is amazing. Shield pokes half the time, its fast as hell, and it has great range. A horribly underused attack.
- You can SDI the first hit of his bullet seed so you'll never get hit by it. Most people I play against consistently SDI out of it, so landing that move on the ground is ridiculously difficult sometimes.
- SH Nair -> bullet seed works at low percents, and its a great way to rack damage. Ivy's Nair is also quite underused, although its great in tons of situations, and can lead to a fair or up air.
- His recovery isn't as bad as, say, Olimar's. This is because of his side-B. Most opponents will grab the ledge while Ivy is far away, and expect him to just die. But you can razor leaf them off the edge and immediately up-B to recover, and his up-B is quite long. The number of gimps that happen will drastically reduce if the Ivysaur player can use the side-B correctly on recovery.
- Pivot grab is very useful because of how fast it is in comparison to his normal grab. Very good for his camping game.
- His jab is like wtf awesome. I've yet to see someone consistently punish Ivy after getting hit by his jab attack.
- Dsmash is sooooo bad, but it can be useful at times for a quick "get away from me" attack when you really need it.
- Landing the KO can be hard with Ivy sometimes. As mentioned by someone else, his dash attack can really help if you get them to a high percent but just can't hit them with a strong attack.
- If you tether and just wait there, he'll make a ridiculously cute wiggling motion and pull himself up.
Charizard
- SO fast on the ground.
- Grab grab grab grab grab. His game is all about that long-as-hell and fast grab.
- Up-smash out of sheild or running up smash (mostly because of his ground speed) are great punishers, and its another relatively underused attack.
- His Fair is horrible for approaching, but his Bair is awesome.
- His Dair has a pretty big disjointed hitbox. I land quite a few spikes because nobody sees it coming. And a full hop dair actually hits most of the taller opponents while they're standing.
- Jab combo is good at times, but best if you jab-jab-grab instead of finishing it.
- Flamethrower is pretty long (because he slightly extends his neck out), and it can be awesome to hit an unsuspecting enemy with it. I LOL everytime someone tries to Melee DI the flamethrower to land behind me but end up taking like 50 damage before they realize that they can't.
- His tilts are surprisingly good for KOs. His Dtilt is pretty fast, so it may be good for poking, although his Ftilt is rather slow despite being better for KOs, so you may want to save the Dtilt instead.
- His slow glide is sometimes necessary because of how medicore his recovery can be.
- Up-B out of shield for some surprise KOs can work sometimes. Its technically supposed to be one of his more powerful KO attacks, but for some reason its difficult to land the last hit, which has the knockback on it.
- Dsmash is rather laggy, but it comes out relatively fast and has a nice disjointed hitbox on it.
Also, for those who don't know, there are different times for how long it takes to switch between the pokemon. Squirtle to Ivysaur takes the longest, and Ivysaur to Charizard is the fastest.
I freakin' love Ivysaur and would use him all day if it wasn't for his terrible recovery.
Kyari
Smash Lord
LMAO Hylian, I have said the same thing numerous times when getting Ivysaur on random in friendlies.
KishSquared
Smash Master
PT's best move is the RAWRizard hack.
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
Ditto.
I have to agree with Hylian... until I actually sat down and said "okay, let's figure this guy out", I didn't know what his d-tilt looked like. Ivysaur was always just in and out so fast.
Switching to him when at higher % so he doesn't have to use his up+b is generally a good bet... makes him live so much longer.
Also, I really enjoy spiking people off the edge with his up+b. Nothing is better than an opponent trying to edgehog you on his last stock and getting spiked, dying first, and you winning.
I was shocked when I started thinking about it. I'm positive I know what every other move in the game looks like from every character but when I tried to think what Ivysuars Dtilt looked like I drew a blank.
SamuraiPanda
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 22, 2006
- Messages
- 6,924
And thats why I said his Dtilt is horribly underused.
Yup.
If I could, I'd main Squirtle. He's like a faster, less floaty Melee Jiggs. Fair and Bair are great, Dair has a million uses (though I use it probably a tad too much) Uair has good KO potential and is fast and rarely used, to boot. His neutral attack is great, you can give time between the hits so it can be slowed or sped up to mix up the timing against powershielding and dodging. Tilts are good and dtilt has a good length to the attack, both in space and time. Up-tilt spam is my favorite taunt. Squirt squirt squirt squirt squirt!
Watergun is still rather useless, but it's still worth having charged for the rare chance of blocking a projectile, or make someone grab the edge instead of landing on the floor. *Shrug* Forward B is brilliant, 95% of the people I've vs'd just tries to shield/jump over it, except one or two who have had me spam it too much and have learned to grab me out of it
One or two have footstooled me, but only by accident. Invincability to most attacks is great, and if you're about to get hit by something powerful (IE, Falcon Punch) you have to be prepared to bail out asap. Sloped stages like Pipes are great for this. Zip from one side to the other fast.His up-b's an okay recovery, and it's fairly useful as an offensive move too as you can aim it into their DI.
Ivysaur I'm probably the weakest at. I agree with switching to Ivy when squit's at high HP (preferably after they're flying away) but that's more so that after char dies I'm back at Squirt. Bullet Seed is great for those who don't remember to DI, his arials are good (his Nair's fairly decent, can even be used to spike if you hit with the right part) you can shff his Bair. Uair is a killer if timed right, has good range too. Same with Dair, though has unfortunate after-lag. His A attack is okay, tilts are pretty good, his dtilt can trip others. Upsmash is great, the others are average.
Razor leaf's good, though doesn't have much of a range of angles, his up-special's a pretty decent attack move. It does good knockback, especially if hit by the tip and it's incredibly underused and never expected. As a recovery move it's okay, though if he loses his double jump he's probably doomed. Stupid N1ven. **** YOU AND YOUR ROB! Uh...*cough* I mean watch out for rob edge guarding. He gets you off the edge, he'll chase you out and kill you. Watch out for fliers.
Speaking of fliers, Charizard SUCKS when he flies. Slow moving he becomes a huge target and his attack while flying fails as badly. But to the rest of charizard's air game. It's rather average. His dair's decent spike, start up lag weakens it usefulness a tad. Good bair, though range is short. Up air is fast and has decent knockback. Nair is rarely used but isn't too bad. Fair is average.
Smashes are all good, though I tend not to use Dsmash much, can't seem to time it right. Fsmash has a bit of startup lag, but you just learn to time it right. Up smash seems the weakest of the three but has good range. Tilts are great, down and up are fast, downtilt has unexpected range and forward tilt has great ko potential if hit with the fire tip.
Specials have already been covered except his Up-b. Has great KO potential on the last few frames. Super fast and comes from nowhere. Priority's good too, killed a few people jumping down to spike and I end up killing/almost killing them with the up-b
Switching I tend not to do too much, more prefering to start as Squirt and (failing a switch with squirt to Ivysaur in the first stock) and follow through with one poke per stock
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Agreed. Charizard is a baller in Brawl, and an even bigger baller in Brawl+.
Overswarm
is laughing at you
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- May 4, 2005
- Messages
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Synopsis:
Pokémon trainer is cooooooooooool. He's also fun!!!.... and not very good competitively. The lackluster recovery of all three pokémon make their stocks disappear incredibly fast against a watchful opponent. PT's damage racking potential is through the roof, and he DOES have some good KO options, but many of them (especially with Ivysaur!) are situational. PT was originally thought to be a character that had no counterpicks because you could switch to a different character throughout the match, but we have seen that there are a number of characters that do well against all three... and more importantly, even if one of the pokémon can do well against a character it doesn't mean that will make up for the poor performance of the other two!
Despite all his drawbacks, PT would be considered a decent character. He has enough mix-ups and options in his gameplay that a smart player can really take him to a new level. For what he lacks, he makes up for in other areas for each of the pokémon. Squirtle can't take much abuse and can be gimped if he's not careful, but he's got a great in-and-out style of attack that is similar to Wario and Jiggs. Ivysaur has one of the worst recoveries in the game, but has bullet seed that adds enough damage in one or two volleys to make his opponent's life as short as Ivysaur's. Charizard is a big target and moves slow in the air, but he moves incredibly fast on the ground and has a great grab game.
What really holds them back is the time limit. The longer PT is out, the weaker the PT's pokémon of choice gets. That means if I'm facing a squirtle and I'm at high %, I can easily camp him out on the ledge or by simply hitting him away and running. Once he gets tired, his once powerful u-smash KO is no longer worth how difficult it is to land. The worst part is once you hit down+b, the opponent gets a free hit on you.... often a fully charged smash!
If a PT player comes along that is really innovative and uses all the options and is able to solve the crisis of fatigue, we could see PT doing some damage. Until then, it's not going to just be the top tiers that are going to hurt him.
Pokémon trainer is cooooooooooool. He's also fun!!!.... and not very good competitively. The lackluster recovery of all three pokémon make their stocks disappear incredibly fast against a watchful opponent. PT's damage racking potential is through the roof, and he DOES have some good KO options, but many of them (especially with Ivysaur!) are situational. PT was originally thought to be a character that had no counterpicks because you could switch to a different character throughout the match, but we have seen that there are a number of characters that do well against all three... and more importantly, even if one of the pokémon can do well against a character it doesn't mean that will make up for the poor performance of the other two!
Despite all his drawbacks, PT would be considered a decent character. He has enough mix-ups and options in his gameplay that a smart player can really take him to a new level. For what he lacks, he makes up for in other areas for each of the pokémon. Squirtle can't take much abuse and can be gimped if he's not careful, but he's got a great in-and-out style of attack that is similar to Wario and Jiggs. Ivysaur has one of the worst recoveries in the game, but has bullet seed that adds enough damage in one or two volleys to make his opponent's life as short as Ivysaur's. Charizard is a big target and moves slow in the air, but he moves incredibly fast on the ground and has a great grab game.
What really holds them back is the time limit. The longer PT is out, the weaker the PT's pokémon of choice gets. That means if I'm facing a squirtle and I'm at high %, I can easily camp him out on the ledge or by simply hitting him away and running. Once he gets tired, his once powerful u-smash KO is no longer worth how difficult it is to land. The worst part is once you hit down+b, the opponent gets a free hit on you.... often a fully charged smash!
If a PT player comes along that is really innovative and uses all the options and is able to solve the crisis of fatigue, we could see PT doing some damage. Until then, it's not going to just be the top tiers that are going to hurt him.
I know I'm posting this after the synopsis....but I think PT can be played pretty well. Just the fact that he has to use all three really makes it so every character counters one of his characters and really makes it difficult for him to win the match. Charizard is really good against characters whose attacks don't knock him back extremely far because he can attack you right back really well, Squirtle can use his speed quiiite effectively against much of the medium speed and slower cast..and Ivysaur..well, he's just not very good. Bullet seed adds a bunch of damage but I don't see how you can get caught in that if you know it is coming. I actually set him up by pretending to be set up for it then punishing it rather easily because of how slow it cools down.
D
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Squirtle is annoying.
^ the above post is spam
RAWKSMASH
RAWKSMASH
SamuraiPanda
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 22, 2006
- Messages
- 6,924
Crap. I completely forgot about this thread. Uh... we need a hint for the week. Does someone want to do one?
Everything after this post is general discussion.
Everything after this post is general discussion.
Lol, I don't know what Ivysaur's dtilt looks like either.
: /
Wait, this week is Pokemon trainer?
I thought for sure it was Magikarp.
: /
Wait, this week is Pokemon trainer?
I thought for sure it was Magikarp.
I read every post and loved your guy's discussion, fairly accurate on all levels. I think overswam put it best when he said...
but this...
is not really true. Everyone of the pokemon have a grab that allows the switch. Squirtle by far is the easiest to switch out. Even fatigued his down throw has enough knock back to switch. Charizard has the the second easiest switch in his down throw as well. If the opponent does not di the massive horizontal knock back of this move they risk dieing. If they di up then this allows an easy switch as well. Ivy has a little bit of a hard time switching but it is still possible with the back throw.
this.
*cries a single indian tear @ the little ivysaur love*
I agree with the synopsis. I guess I just expected a little more knowledge about the active AT's for PT. I dont think forward hydroplanning was mentioned even once.