Weekly Character Discussion: Pit

[Overswarm]

He's an angel. From Angel land.

 

[the_suicide_fox]

I'm not a Pit user, but I do know he has one of the best projectiles in the game and one of the best recoveries as well. He's an easy character to pick up and play but I have yet to see any outstanding Pit players. He does have quite a bit going for him, but I don't think anyone's quite mastered him yet.

 

[Arash]

the best strategy thus far looks like spamming arrow and using your stronger moves to keep others to mid-range and no closer.

that and his glide attack is possibly his best KO move.

 

[Zankoku]

Apparently Dr. X's Pit can't handle Marth. That's the only thing I really know, and even then only because he said it out loud during my doubles match with him.

 

[Deleted member]

pit has pretty amazing kill potential with wall of pain bairs off the stage.

 

[Jump20X6]

I've played against B-Run's Pit a lot, so I'll chime in here.

One of Pit's strongest attributes is his ability to play from the ledge. Ledge hopping arrows (followed by repeated jumping arrows) can force your opponent to approach. Once they do come, Pit u-air can be used to keep them back. It has a wide range and good priority. This is an effective camping strategy, being especially useful if the Pit is forced into a 2v1 situation. Combined with Pit impressive recovery options, it makes him a very difficult character to edge guard. The only downside is his gimpable up-B, but gimping can be minimized by the talented player.

 

[Cyphus]

i think pit is very underrated. hes just ****ing cheap.

anyway. if does pretty awesome against snake. he's got some great settups and pressure games from d.throw back to the ground...he forces snake to be offensisve. he can arrow snipe his recovery, and you can EASILY WoP w/ f.airs/b.airs til he's dead horizontally.

I'm really not too fond of his downB or even Forward B but apparently i'm just wrong for thinking that. I use him occasionally.
He has a nice arrow trick looping it, which works great for turtlers, but overall its pretty gimmicky.

 

[Deleted member]

I'll add that I think Pit does well vs all the fatass chars on the basis that he can just shoot their movements to stop them. That being said, Pit can literally shoot DDD to death should he need to up B, since pit can keep shooting him out of up B before he can gain any height. Same for DK and campy snake to a lesser extent. On the other hand, I think all 3 of these characters can overcome the spamming with some patience and good use of the character's weight.

I think Ike gets around Pit's spamming fairly well as well, despite being much lower on the tier list. That said, Pit's best single strategem definitely revolves around his arrows and ability to camp with them under ledges. Pit can be neutered very easily on FD.

 

[Overswarm]

Pit has some of the best edgeguarding in the game iwth his down+b; if you call it in advance, you can mirror shield most recovery tactics to push them away from the ledge. Ike's aether, Metaknight's b moves save for down+b, even ROB's up+b is pushed away. Plus, you can jump off the stage and do it; that makes it pretty deadly if you can call your opponent out.

The spamming of arrows though... doesn't work against anyone. Every character has the ability to air dodge through them or simply use an attack (with ROB I use fair) to avoid them; once you get close enough, Pit cannot arrow spam anymore. Arrow's shouldn't do more than 10% if the spam starts with you on the opposite end of the stage... and rarely that.

Overall, Pit is a fairly shallow character with some good base traits. Unfortunately, most of the stuff that COULD make him good is really gimmicky and not so good in practical use. His off the stage game is also pretty poor against anyone with a good recovery; while Pit can almost always get back to the stage when there is no conflict.... someone like ROB, Metaknight, another Pit, or anyone else with a projectile or multiple jumps can easily tap Pit down low enough to force him to use his up+b and that is really dangerous. While a good Pit should be able to get back the majority of the time, the fact that it is so easy to put him in that position if he is confronted off the stage makes some matchups gimp-central for Pit if he makes one mistake. That alone will keep him from being a powerful stand-alone character.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i think pit is good in pretty much every area but not GREAT in many areas - which is the only reason he is separated from the real heavy hitters.

Pit obviously has a great arrow game - loops, off screen ko's, just straight shots, forced approaches, etc etc - not as effective as everyone makes it out to be - but it's still a GREAT distraction at absolute worst.

Pit has good priority decent ko power solid edge guarding quick grabs and so on and so forth... one of the things that seems to be his biggest problem (his up b recovery) is more difficult to hit than most people may think vs a pit that really knows his stuff... but it's still a big weakness.

vs the fatties (as has been discussed) pit can go absolutely crazy just because of arrows and his multi hit airs like his neutral and up air - there isn't a lot

sagemoon in washington has a great pit - he makes good use of everything pit has to offer

pit is very solid but not outstanding - meh.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

After playing against DSF's Pit, I must say that I underestimated the little guy, and a lot of my preconceived notions were shattered.

The spamming of arrows though... doesn't work against anyone. Every character has the ability to air dodge through them or simply use an attack (with ROB I use fair) to avoid them; once you get close enough, Pit cannot arrow spam anymore. Arrow's shouldn't do more than 10% if the spam starts with you on the opposite end of the stage... and rarely that.

For one thing, this is one of the beliefs I had as well. I figured, between airdodging and powershielding, how can anybody actually get hit by Pit's arrows? Well, it turns out that smart Pits will arrow spam with purpose, like when they'll actually hit you, and they'll change the timing of them or shoot for places that your shield isn't blocking. Even if you DO avoid the arrows, they'll account for that and they will read your airdodges and methods of avoiding them to land a free smash or throw. Also, Pit's throws are AWESOME for positioning. They aren't overly strong or anything, they just put him in an advantageous position for edgeguarding slow recoveries, shooting more arrows, or even just taking control of the pace of the game. Between his throws and his arrows, in the hands of a smart player, Pit would never need to approach. I could go on, but suffice to say that good Pits don't fall into the same silly patterns that most Pits fall into.

Also, I've realized that Pit has likely the strongest ledgehopping/ledgestalling game so far. Its not only annoying, but its incredibly difficult to beat. The combination of ledgehopped arrows, U-airs, and a recovery that can get to the other side if necessary (although this one isn't really needed) make Pit ridiculous to play against with some characters. Pit will move higher than we expect in the future, and with ATs that many see as "gimmicky" now that could possibly become useful in the right hands, he may be able to compete with the best, eventually.

 

[Overswarm]

Metaknight's edge game is quite a bit better =P


Pit's throws are pretty beastly though. They are prolly the best in the game as far as positioning is concerned.

 

[Ignatius]

Pit has Pew Pew Pew, though.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

that should be the final overview

"Pit has pew pew pew"

 

[Overswarm]

You forgot to capitalize.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

T - T

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I personally feel Pit's arrows are not a big deal at all. Many attacks in the game will just cancel them out. You just have to use an attack that doesn't have much cooldown time and time it with the arrows to cancel them out. They aren't like lasers or waddle dee's or other projectiles that I feel are much better because you can't attack them as easy to get them out of the way. As per example DK can forward tilt them and approach, Peach can even jab them. I don't understand why people air dodge or shield them so often. You will need to air dodge or shield some of them in certain situations, but in situations where Pit is on the other side of the stage or at least halfway across, you have time to see it coming and just attack it. For this reason I don't think his arrows will be very effective in high level play where someone knows the matchup.

 

[Joshu]

Pit is top tier because he can avoid final smashes by gliding under stages. It's pretty much broken and makes smash balls perfectly fine for tournament play.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Whoa great point...!! From now on I'm using Pit in Smash ball items tournies..haha.

 

[Overswarm]

Are there any matchups that Pit has that are just REALLY in favor for Pit? I can think of a few that Pit has trouble with (mainly anyone that can effectively edgeguard him), but none that Pit just really destroys. He doesn't do poorly against a lot of characters, but he also doesn't seem to counter anyone special.

 

[LeeHarris]

He does well against Ganon because of range + edgeguarding skills. Besides that, I can't think of anything besides slower characters with poor recoveries (Bowser, Ike, etc).

 

[Mew2King]

Pit does well vs DDD

if Pit forward Bs, ddd cannot roll behind him, and pit can run away vs DDD. DDD can't do anything to retaliate except DI away from the forward B and down smash Pit, but that takes too long. Pit can also Nair and fall backwards (or land behind DDD) with no landing lag and basically no punishment. His WoP is really good. I think Pit has the advantage in the matchup.

 

[Deleted member]

ike does fine vs pit. once ike gets past the pew pew pew pit has a really hard time matching ike's attacks.

 

[Overswarm]

Pit does well vs DDD

if Pit forward Bs, ddd cannot roll behind him, and pit can run away vs DDD. DDD can't do anything to retaliate except DI away from the forward B and down smash Pit, but that takes too long. Pit can also Nair and fall backwards (or land behind DDD) with no landing lag and basically no punishment. His WoP is really good. I think Pit has the advantage in the matchup.

Any character can actually quarter circle DI behind Pit when he does this attack; it makes it pretty useless once you instinctively do it, as it is a free grab or smash attack every time Pit hits you with it.


Synopsis:

With a few glaring weaknesses and nothing incredibly power to compensate, Pit becomes a character of averages. His recovery is great distance-wise, but when put into actual gameplay it is nothing especially of note; he can generally get back just as well as other characters in the game. His attacks, while good, aren't especially impressive. His specials, while annoying and unique, don't send him to the top. He doesn't even have that many matchups that seem to be incredibly in his favor!

It is true that Pit has a few things slightly above average, like the damage of his relatively quick forward-smash, the power of his bair, the excellent positioning created by all his throws, his edgeguarding tricks with his down+b, or the power and priority of his glide attack. However, these things have yet to be used effectively enough by a Pit player to show that Pit can be as dangerous as other characters.

It is extremely possible that a Pit player could learn to use arrows to position his opponent into a certain area when recovering so that Pit can edgeguard for the KO with his down+b or a gutsy Pit player could start getting his KOs by glide attacking while his opponent is attempting to recover, but for now Pit's game has become stagnant and filled primarily with gimmicky ATs such as arrow looping or wingdashing that have yet to really propel Pit's metagame. A push back to basics is primarily what this character needs to compete with the other characters that are filling the upper echelons.

 

[Deleted member]

what is the quarter circle DI? where do you start/end it?

 

[Zankoku]

I guess you Hadoken a couple times because it gives you three cardinal direction inputs for SDI.



Panda edit: Oops, I forgot to give a warning. So I'ma hijack Ankoku's post here :D

Everything after this post is general discussion.

 

[Overswarm]

what is the quarter circle DI? where do you start/end it?

Down to forward, where forward is towards Pit.


When you push your control stick from neutral to a direction, you get smash DI which is more powerful than standard DI. When you move from one cardinal direction to another, you get normal DI. By rotating the control stick and the c-stick rapidly (slightly off from one aonther so you aren't doing them at the same time) towards the opponent, you will change your bodies place drastically. This only helps you a tiny bit on single attacks.... but for multi-hit attacks it does a TON. You literally pop behind the opponent during any multi-hit attack. You can quarter-circle DI as long as you are in hit-stun, so if you were fast enough you could even quarter circle DI out of MK's fair and bair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cttJLmAT5PU

 

[Rogue Pit]

Umm how long has this thread been here? And edreeses pits arrows can come from all directions i bet if you played me you couldnt cancel my arrows with simple attacks. You seem to only have faced beginner pits. His arrows arent to be taken lightly.

 

[dguy6789]

Ah yes, Pit, the kid version of Marth. He's pretty interesting with his mobility, reflector, and projectile options.

 

[Overswarm]

Umm how long has this thread been here? And edreeses pits arrows can come from all directions i bet if you played me you couldnt cancel my arrows with simple attacks. You seem to only have faced beginner pits. His arrows arent to be taken lightly.

This is exactly why no one takes Pit as a serious opponent.

Yes, his arrows are to be taken lightly. They aren't as amazing as they were in March. Get over it and move on to more consistently effective things.

 

[Kitamerby]

This is exactly why no one takes Pit as a serious opponent.

Yes, his arrows are to be taken lightly. They aren't as amazing as they were in March. Get over it and move on to more consistently effective things.

Like tauntspamming and his ridiculous spotdodge.

 

[Admiral Pit]

pit has pretty amazing kill potential with wall of pain bairs off the stage.

In addition to that, Pit has his F-air WoP, which I've done on Ikes and Links mostly, which kills them pretty well if they start with like 30-40% when u knock them off the edge. I do this a lot to them so I should know.

One of the things that makes Pit very special and unique is the Mirror Shield. At the time where you hear the "Ping" sound of the shield, where it shines, any attack that hits the shield will *Reverse* your opponent, like a Mario Cape. By simply knowing this, you can use the Shield offensively and not just defensively.
You can use it to Gimp certain recoveries that, well, do damage, like Link's, Ike's (Especially Ike's for me), DK's, Bowser's, etc. Even MK's Up-B, Side-B and Tornado are all vulnerable to being reversed by Pit's Mirror Shield when you time it right. Ledgecamping MK that waits for you to come then uses Up-B? Mirror Shield him to his death.
The Mirror Shield also reflects, like other reflectors do. But what some ppl dont know, that certain projectiles, like Lucario's Aura Sphere, and Samus' Green missile thing, upon being reflected, they move at a faster speed than normal, which could frighten ppl that lack reflexes or just dont expect it.
Finally, somewhere before you hear the "Ping" sound of the Shield, when you are on the ground, The Mirror Shield has Superarmor frames.

I vote the Mirror Shield BEST reflector in the game.
For me, Pit vs MK... Mirror Shield = God Tier! *blushes*

I'll probably talk about Pit's projectile later.

I have a vid of me, just showing 2 Pit ditto matches in one vid (This vid does NOT belong to me)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYcBNmzgOqw
I would be the Gold Pit in the vid, and yes, I go by "Admiral Pit" now.
This vid would probably show why the arrow is my favorite projectile in the game, as well as my playstyle.

I do have a Bizzare Playstyle, which I havent been told that yet, but I think it's very different from other Pits.

Note that Sagemoon is a very exceptional Pit and is really the one representing Pit. You should look for his combo vid "Feathers of Fate" and see the amazing stuff that he does with his Pit.

Pit has a lot of potential, yet many ppl are just noobish and just do the typical B and Side-B spam, abusing the poor angel. If you have the knowledge and skill to use all of the versatility that Pit has, from his brilliant Mirror Shield, reflecting capabilities, good airgame, amazing projectile, and great edgeguarding, Pit can truly be a force to be reckoned with, and Sagemoon (I would too) is representing Pit really well.

May Palutena guide us angels well. She likes you more than me Sage! I can sense it.

 

[M@v]

Pits arrows no more than a minor nuisance. Once you get close, it shuts the arrows down. Plus with fox I can just let pit spam his arrows all day since I have a reflector. If you have a reflector, I recommend using it a little closer to pit than on the opposite end of the stage. One time on FD, a pit got his reflector out before his arrow came back and hit him. The arrow wound up breaking my reflector and resulted in an instant kill. Just keep that in mind.

Ive seen a few good pit players, and their game was all about the positioning. A couple of the players would short hop bair me right after I get up from the ledge and lost invulnerablilty frames, which took me by suprise at first. Pits Side b is massively punishable. Pits recovery is good, but if you force him to do up b, hes in trouble, since 1 hit will kill him. Pits smashes are mediocre, but his fsmash can be punished. As mentioned 100 times already, his throws are amazing for spacing, and give pit many options. Pit is well rounded, but doesn't have any OUTSTANDING qualities.

 

[kupo15]

I will agree that the arrows really doesnt do a whole lot and I dont feel spamming should be his initial plan but more as a last resort. His moveset and throws are good enough to pull of nice combos if you react to your opponent right. Dtilt is great for combo starters also.

Arrow is pretty good but if abused, its no different than spamming straight arrows. The key is unpredictability and in most cases, there is another move that is a better option like Wing refresh.

Side B CAN be punishiable if used wrong. Not only can you ART which throws ppl off (its not that hard) but afterwards you can dtilt them since they will be DIing away. And if they notice your AR lasts X long and can counter it, hold it a tad longer. The bad part would be if someone SDI behind you.

As far as char matchup, of the top tiers MK is the dangerous one. Pit can handle Snake pretty easily, DDD, DK if he is careful (he has a guaranteed 0-40% CG that cant be escaped) and Gimping the recovery should be easy.

Noone mentioned wingdashing...T_T Best for spacing, canceling projectiles while moving and picking up character items while moving without exposing yourself. T_T

 

[Apollo317]

PANDA KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT! Overswarm is biased, I think.

 

[rinoH]

yeah sorta sad they didnt mention wingdashing

 

[Overswarm]

yeah sorta sad they didnt mention wingdashing

I did mentiont it, under "gimmicky and mostly useless ATs"

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Umm how long has this thread been here? And edreeses pits arrows can come from all directions i bet if you played me you couldnt cancel my arrows with simple attacks. You seem to only have faced beginner pits. His arrows arent to be taken lightly.

No, it's because I use Peach. Peach's neutral air will cancel out Pit's arrows from any direction gauranteed. Below, above, any side. The move also lingers around for enough frames to prevent any delayed arrows from hitting her. I'm pretty sure every good character in the game has a move with hitboxes in several directions to clank with the arrows. In addition if you take the time to loop it around the other person is already approaching you a great deal.

 

[kupo15]

I did mentiont it, under "gimmicky and mostly useless ATs"

PANDA KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT! Overswarm is biased, I think.

QFT. Noone even discussed why its gimmicky. I didnt even see the word Wingdash. All I saw was arrows arrows arrows. Take that away and what does an arrow dependent Pit have?

EDIT: So I saw one reference to wingdashing without a discussion. I agree with your basics point OS. The "gimmacky" ATs of his are there to compliment an already fundamental understanding of the basics for good Pits to use. its not ment to replace them or be more of the focus.

Im not saying wingdashing is almighty or anything. For example, it doesnt work against MK at all. But it works great against Snake. I hardly get hit with his tilts because of it. It works good against Mario and his projectiles and ROBs gryo and Diddys banana to pick them up quickly.

I know it works if you know when to use it. I guess it will just take time before its accepted and ppl know how to use it. Kinda like wavedashing. I think I heard that it was discovered by accident by a luigi and noone thought twice about it until later. Just an example. calm down

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Although I mentioned that Pit has "gimmicky" ATs that could become useful in the future, I forgot to mention that he has a ton of gimmicky ATs that WONT become useful in the future. IMO, windashing mostly falls into this category.