Weekly Character Discussion: Marth

[mimic_king]

the fact that the physics engine changed is what made characters worse. there were many combos that were used in melee(ex: ken combo) that you now can't do in brawl. this means that certain characters that had great combos in melee now cant do those combos anymore, making them worse. some characters were buffed(kirby), but there are things that even the characters that were buffed in melee now cant do. that is what makes them nerfed in a way.

so you see, now the characters are both buffed and nerfed. except in cases where they were completely nerfed(ganondorf) or completely buffed(toon link(YL))

 

[Emblem Lord]

No. See the problem is your mindset. You think that combos still have a significant effect on a character's worth.

Comboability is always good, but it's really not the biggest factor in this game.

There is so much more to fighting games then combos. Mobility, speed, range, priority, defensive options, pokes, tech-traps, frame traps, etc.

These are the things that high level play in Brawl puts emphasis on. Especially easy damage builders, good punishment game, good pokes, good camping game, and solid kill moves.

See, without a strong combo engine you need other ways to build damage, stay in control of the match and get your kills. That's where all those last few factors come in.

Of course these things were important in Melee, but the Melee community tends to put alot of emphasis on combos even though comboability is only a small part of the game engine and it isn't even the most important factor.

There are alot of aspects that are more important then combos and I listed many of them.

 

[darkspatan117]

I agree With EL Figthing games are not always on combo on SC IV it all about spacing and punish your enemies

 

[mimic_king]

true, but combos are a way of punishing your enemy. and they make the game more fun

 

[Emblem Lord]

SCIV is amazing and it's proof that you don't need crazy combos to have a great game. Although this SC game has far more comboability then any other Soul Caliber before it.

Anyway, the other thing about combos in Melee were the fact that they could lead to death or edgeguarding which should lead to death as long as you don't screw up.

Combos in Brawl really don't lead to death outside of CG's and CG death combos are very rare in Brawl since they have to be done at 0% or extremely low percents. So comboability as a whole has even less importance due to this reason.

Like I said there are other more important factors in Brawl.

 

[mimic_king]

there are other important factors. i never disagreed with that.

SC series is rigged though. it's all about being cheap. however, SCIV is an amazing game, and i wont contradict that.

 

[Zankoku]

Every fighting game ever is about being cheap.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

From that point of view, the word "cheap" completely looses its meaning but you're right.

 

[mimic_king]

melee wasn't cheap. you could be cheap at that game, but you would fail epically.

here is how it goes:

in melee, if you were cheap you sucked.
in brawl, if you were cheap you were god.
in 64, if you were cheap then you were godliest god of all time.

thus melee is a better game, though this topic has nothing to do with that.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Er. No.

WTF.

All fighting games are about finding the most abusable and best strats and whoring them until you attain victory.

This is playing cheap.

 

[mimic_king]

Er. No.

Er. Yes.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Do you live on an island alone that just happens to be under Texas jurisdiction?

Everything you post goes against fighting game lore and common sense.

 

[Steel]

melee wasn't cheap. you could be cheap at that game, but you would fail epically.

here is how it goes:

in melee, if you were cheap you sucked.
in brawl, if you were cheap you were god.
in 64, if you were cheap then you were godliest god of all time.

thus melee is a better game, though this topic has nothing to do with that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntkoUSScfRc

 

[Alus]

Every fighting game ever is about being cheap.

no.... every fighting game ever is about haveing control of the match....even if you have to be cheap.

melee wasn't cheap. you could be cheap at that game, but you would fail epically.

here is how it goes:

in melee, if you were cheap you sucked.
in brawl, if you were cheap you were god.
in 64, if you were cheap then you were godliest god of all time.

thus melee is a better game, though this topic has nothing to do with that.

fox and marth were cheap.... they didnt suck... and if you chose them you didnt suck...

btw what does cheap mean to you?

 

[mimic_king]

Do you live on an island alone that just happens to be under Texas jurisdiction?

No. I live in Plano which, if you are any good at geography like most people aren't, you may know isn't an island.

Just so you know, I know that you weren't being serious about that, but just a heads up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntkoUSScfRc

That takes much more skill than you think. In brawl, you cant do any of that, so you're subject to being cheap.

fox and marth were cheap.... they didnt suck... and if you chose them you didnt suck...

Fox and Marth werent cheap. I will not accept that statement.

 

[darkspatan117]

look who s trolling^^

 

[Hype]

melee wasn't cheap. you could be cheap at that game, but you would fail epically.

here is how it goes:

in melee, if you were cheap you sucked.
in brawl, if you were cheap you were god.
in 64, if you were cheap then you were godliest god of all time.

thus melee is a better game, though this topic has nothing to do with that.

If you use the term "cheap" loosely you suck.

You have a really bad attitude towards video games if you think like this.

 

[BacklashMarth]

no.... every fighting game ever is about haveing control of the match....even if you have to be cheap.





fox and marth were cheap.... they didnt suck... and if you chose them you didnt suck...

btw what does cheap mean to you?

Cheap is just the opposite of flashy and hard (hard is not always the case though). If it works, its easy, and its effective, then its cheap. Oh and never take the name of Marth in vain by placing it in the same sentence as cheap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntkoUSScfRc

Rolflmfao. The title of that video should be used to make a movie.

 

[feardragon64]

This thread is going completely off topic because of mimic_king. I understand that(and why) so many people disagree with him, but this isn't a thread about what being cheap is. It's supposed to be a discussion specifically about Marth in brawl

And EL, you've said it yourself.

Ok, so dudes.

All the above poster does is go into character threads and post about why that character isn't good. So, just put him on your ignore list and it's all good.

Just ignore him? You're just adding fuel to the fire since he's doesn't want to change his opinion, arguing with him is pointless.

On an ironicly off topic note: backlash has an awesome pun in his sig

 

[Darxmarth23]

This thread is going completely off topic because of mimic_king. I understand that(and why) so many people disagree with him, but this isn't a thread about what being cheap is. It's supposed to be a discussion specifically about Marth in brawl

And EL, you've said it yourself.
Just ignore him? You're just adding fuel to the fire since he's doesn't want to change his opinion, arguing with him is pointless.

On an ironicly off topic note: backlash has an awesome pun in his sig

i agree. mimic is a troll.

 

[mimic_king]

yeah well, you know you could have ignored me and got back on topic, but since you consider it all my fault(even though it is partly my fault), i will just get back on topic and it will stay that way.

what i meant about marth's decreased knockback is not mainly on his moves, but was concentrated on his side b, which all marth pros know was nerfed because of damage and knockback.

and about being cheap, Ankoku was the one who stated that all fighting games are about being cheap, but im not blaming anyone. im just saying that i didnt start it.

think im a troll? i happen to use marth, but he isnt my main, neither is IC's. i need to change that pic.

 

[Steel]

Side b? Nerfed? lolercoasters.

 

[mimic_king]

marth's side b was nerfed, and i can prove it. ill post a video on here in a week or two to show that it was nerfed

 

[Steel]

LOL, go for it.

 

[Shaya]

Try using the dancing blade just after your death (i.e. the move is fresh) and watch it kill opponents upwards before your upsmash/utilt, and at not much higher damage required than a fsmash. (Tippered Dancing Blade btw).

It's not dancing blade that got nerfed, it's the game's paradigm on 'move use' that is nerfed

 

[∫unk]

marth's side b was nerfed, and i can prove it. ill post a video on here in a week or two to show that it was nerfed

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[feardragon64]

lol

Mimic you're implying that Dancing blades was actually good in melee then....
....
Other than for horizontal recovery I mean....

 

[OmegaXF]

lol

Mimic you're implying that Dancing blades was actually good in melee then....
....
Other than for horizontal recovery I mean....

Melee=Better DB for recovery.
Brawl=Better DB for offensive reasons.
Lotion=Top tier

 

[mimic_king]

Mimic you're implying that Dancing blades was actually good in melee then....

it was good in melee, for offensive reasons as well as recovery

i am half way done with my video. it's taking me a long time because i dont always get the time to work on it, but it will be here before next sunday

 

[Shaya]

I guess the point about how Dancing Blade in brawl kills before any other move Marth has other than fsmash and a reasonably charged shield breaker has been ignored. (If dancing blade is fresh)

 

[Nightshine]

Dancing blade i think was better in melee but its still pretty good in brawl also.

Anybody think Marth's sword is shorter in brawl than it is in melee or is it just me?

 

[mimic_king]

it's not just you. his range is shorter in brawl.

my video got deleted thanks to my stupid cousin exiting out of Windows Movie Maker and not saving. i have to start all over again, so you may not see it as soon as you hoped.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Excuses, excuses.

 

[ZHMT]

Dancing blade i think was better in melee but its still pretty good in brawl also.

You ARE kidding right?

Dancing blade is 100 times better in Brawl, I rarely ever used Dancing blade in Melee, it is a staple of Marths in Brawl.

Also Marths range shortening KILLED his fsmash <_<, Marth had the best fsmash in Melee imo.

 

[mimic_king]

i finished my video. but i have to leave now. ill post it tomorrow

 

[Steel]

don't bother

 

[Steel]

in fact, stop posting

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

don't bother

in fact, stop posting

QFT. And I c wut u did thar! tryna not use Search to beat Junk, nice tactic.

 

[darkdemon marth]

so this is about marth or marth n ssbb cause im new and dont wnt to get baned on the first day

 

[mimic_king]

It's about Marth in SSBB, but you can still talk about him in Melee just as long as you're talking about SSBB with it, such as a comparison.