Weekly Character Discussion: Ganondorf

[MiraiGen]

Ganondorf is a drastically different character now.

Comparing him to Melee Ganondorf is like comparing, well, Melee to Brawl.

The only people who play him are people who loved him in Melee and are trying to get used to the changes, or the people whom like the new 'Truck Full of Bricks' Ganondorf and want to try him competitively.

I'm not a big fan of the new changes. I think that he'd be much better if his Fair didn't have a sweetspot that was practically crucial to the attack and cause tons of land lag, if he didn't walk like a Bhudda, and if his Utilt was actually useful.

But we'll have to make do.

One thing I've noticed - The Flame Choke to Dtilt combo. Was it supposed to be escapable? I've had a few friends pull off an escape roll.

 

[MojoMan]

AAh. Ganondorf. My second main. I use him because if Gimpyfish can be good with Bowser, i thought I could be good with Ganondorf., also, my main strategy with him is off the edge suicides. He has insane edge-hogging potential, and that's about all he has going for him, though. His side B has insane priority, even aginst Wario's bike. Those are other reasons I use him secondarily, next to ike. If you want to know why, just read my signature.

 

[Sliq]

AAh. Ganondorf. My second main. I use him because if Gimpyfish can be good with Bowser, i thought I could be good with Ganondorf., also, my main strategy with him is off the edge suicides. He has insane edge-hogging potential, and that's about all he has going for him, though. His side B has insane priority, even aginst Wario's bike. Those are other reasons I use him secondarily, next to ike. If you want to know why, just read my signature.

You're probably the lamest individual on the face of the earth.

 

[MiraiGen]

I would agree but that'd be mean.

So, 10char.

 

[Devil7]

ganon has amazing potential and will probably sit mid tier if we all chat loud enough and find a worthy sacrifice

 

[Sliq]

Ganon has very limited potential and isn't good. He's better than people give him credit for, but MK or Snake is basically a lost cause when fighting someone who knows what they are doing. Ganon has too many one sided matchups.

 

[St. Viers]

btw, I've been using ganon for fun recently, but have yet to autocancel his d-air...what is the timing for that (starting the move, whether to FF it, etc). Thanks for the help!!

Also, side B techchasing is the most satisfying thing I've encountered about brawl

 

[Collective of Bears]

I'm OK as Ganon, but I don't plan on maining him by any means. I use him for fun.

 

[MiraiGen]

Including the Utilt I bet.

Something I've been experimenting with is trying to get his Wizard's Foot opening hit to spike. There's a few scenarios I've found.

Edgeguarding - Stomp works better, and just ledge stealing works better. Don't attempt mid-fight. A Wizard's Foot used on an opponent holding onto the ledge without invincibility is a quick KO waiting to happen, but if they have any brain at all good luck with that.

Aerial defense - When you're Usmashed or Utilted or just basically knocked high enough to have them try and follow you for an Uair, Fox style, just do a quick Foot to stop them. Sends you down faster anyway. Being underneath Ganondorf is a risky place (Hur hur hur).

Still not that useful. Wizard's Foot is more for skipping Diddy's bananas and movement anyway.

btw, I've been using ganon for fun recently, but have yet to autocancel his d-air...what is the timing for that (starting the move, whether to FF it, etc). Thanks for the help!!

Autocancelling the Dair is pretty tricky, it basically involves hopping and slamming the attack the second you leave the air. Jumping and sliding your finger down to hit the C-Stick down is probably your best bet, and it takes a few tries to get going.

For a demo I present to you a Youtube Link.

Ganon has too many one sided matchups.

Actually Ganondorf would be totally great if his matchups weren't "Everyone but the Mario Brothers and Peach ***** him, Falco and G+W especially."

Yes I know that doesn't make any sense but it's true.

 

[szh]

Autocancelling the Dair is pretty tricky, it basically involves hopping and slamming the attack the second you leave the air. Jumping and sliding your finger down to hit the C-Stick down is probably your best bet, and it takes a few tries to get going.

For a demo I present to you a Youtube Link.

I think it's easier to have your upper thumb on the Y button and the rest of the thumb on the A button, so you can hit A (and Down) right after you hit Y.

Btw, I think Flame Choke to dtilt is escapable if the Ganondorf crouches a dtilt, but is supposedly not escapable if you do a standing dtilt.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Autocancelling the Dair is pretty tricky, it basically involves hopping and slamming the attack the second you leave the air. Jumping and sliding your finger down to hit the C-Stick down is probably your best bet, and it takes a few tries to get going.

For a demo I present to you a Youtube Link.

I find it easier to just slide from the x button to the a button, it also works.

 

[MiraiGen]

I find that it's tricky considering slamming the D-stick downwards usually borks my momentum.

Oh but that's right, you can buffer it before the jump to avoid fastfalling. Yeah they're right.

 

[WastingPenguins]

I still don't get why people don't just tap-jump and then c-stick the dair. Way easier, and more importantly, you lose absolutely nothing with this method.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I find that it's tricky considering slamming the D-stick downwards usually borks my momentum.

Oh but that's right, you can buffer it before the jump to avoid fastfalling. Yeah they're right.

Or before you can fastfall period you press down, and if you've waited till you can actually fastfall to activate the dair you've already borked the tech up so it doesn't matter.

I still don't get why people don't just tap-jump and then c-stick the dair. Way easier, and more importantly, you lose absolutely nothing with this method.

Don't generally use tap jump unless an AT requires it. But really it's not any easier IMO.

 

[MiraiGen]

Or before you can fastfall period you press down, and if you've waited till you can actually fastfall to activate the dair you've already borked the tech up so it doesn't matter.

Really? When I've tried doing it for the Thunderstomp I usually end up screwing up the timing when I try using the thumbstick. Maybe I'm just not in practice.

Regardless, thanks, and yeah that'll probably work with a bit of practice.

 

[adumbrodeus]

It's definitely being timing screwed, regardless of the method, if you're not in practice with that specific method, you'll hit the attack too late and HELLO LAG!

If you start off with jumping from a crouched position it's easier to practice.

 

[ImpactAR]

Just tossing out there...

But I use Ganon because he's just so fun to play. Competitively, one-on-one I can be cause problems if my opponent let his/her guard down (if you give me the benefit of the doubt that I'm good), but that's not likely to happen in tournaments.

Now, I play Ganon in Brawl teams for the first time just for kicks and with someone who never played in any Smash teams before. We manage to place second though it was a very small tournament... It was a Pit and Ganon team. For teams it seems he can be good partner for characters who can rack up damage, but have problems killing.

It's a given Ganon has a slim chance in singles, but perhaps Ganon may have a strong aspect in teams. Thoughts?

 

[g-regulate]

ganon is my metaknight counter. yea thats right

 

[g-regulate]

and whoever mentioned me not using ganon in tourney, yes i do use ganon in tourney and ive won several times. my ganon is amazing but unfortunately i dont even have to practice with snake and hes still better than most of my characters so i gotta use him in tourney.

 

[LeeHarris]

Same. I use Ganon all the time against great players. I can't say I have the balls to use him against MK, but I love using him against Snake, Falco, ROB, etc. If I lose the random with Ganon I usually switch to Snake. The last tourney I went to I hadn't played Snake in a month and I used him in the final match of a set and wrecked the MK player I was up against.

 

[Dragmire]

If you have wifi I have a decent snake you could practice that way

 

[Gimpyfish62]

are decent snake players hard to find or something? o.O

 

[Dragmire]

good point you'd think there would be a good snake player in Virginia


// MORTAR SLIDES

 

[Blad01]

My main is Falco, but i recently choose to main Ganondorf in tournaments. It's more impressive to loose with a character considered as a Bottom-Tier :D (Yes, Copyright to Gimpyfish and his Melee Bowser ).

I'll see how much i can win with him. But anyway, i can use my (very good) Falco as a counterpick ^^ (>http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=951).

 

[MiraiGen]

It's surprising how Gdorf is becoming one of my main characters. I know he's not as good as several characters I'm good with (ROB and Zelda/Sheik especially) but every time I play him I become more leaning towards his status being set to "Main."

I'm still maining random right now though.

 

[Deck Knight]

Hello everyone, new to Smashboards here.

I loved Ganon in Melee and have been trying my best to main him in Brawl.

What I love about ganon particularly is that he can punish like no other character, is so heavy that most foes need to get him above 150%+ before they can seal the deal with a KO, and most of his specials can be used as alternative forms of movement.

I absolutely love Flame Choke. The only special that goes through shields. Eat that Falcon.

One of my biggest issues is attack placement. I really need to work on it, as well as edgeguarding. somehow I need to train my fingers to use the C-Stick effectively, because my Ground game is good and my aerials are decent, but unless I can perform a throw-spike, it is difficult to utilize Ganondorf's edgeguarding potential for me.

I would love to play some other decent Ganon mains. One of the guys I know that mains Ganon had a pretty good go last time, but I did beat the tar out of him for the most part.

 

[Dragmire]

welcumz to swf doodz lol

we all love ganondorf so much and we've already pointed out the goods and bads would someone like to compile them into one post

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i dont even know where to begin on that one o.O

 

[Dragmire]

HA HA lol I never rally expected anyone to do that it's just fun to try

 

[Gimpyfish62]

oh i was talking to the post above you i got ninja posted lol

 

[AgentJGV]

I've discovered this when it comes to Ganon. AMAZING offline. HORRIBLE online.

 

[The_Dyne]

I don't know, Ganoncides on With Anyone are fun. Imagine the look on their faces.

 

[AgentJGV]

true but its harder to do online than it is offline. i perfer Ike as my online Main

 

[The_Dyne]

Yeah I really have given up on Wifi, mainly because of my bad upload speed...

 

[MiraiGen]

So recently I've been practicing Ganondorf pretty intensely - playing L9 CPUs just trying to get Autocancelling down. Now I'm starting to realize just how badly matched-up he is against the Fire Emblem cast, Wario, G+W, and Snake.

I have the worst trouble with Wario. Not only is his recovery really good against the Ftilt and Fsmash, he can also drift in and out of range of whatever aerial attack you throw out and out prioritizes me like crazy. Anyone have any vs Wario tips?

EDIT: **** FSMASH SUPER ARMOR

 

[Tallon4]

Also new, I also a huge fan of Ganon. It's good to see some real love for the ol' Dorf Monster (as I call him) after so much disinterest. I once saw someone who ruled out Ganon becuase they said he sucked in Melee and hence, probably sucks in Brawl so they won't play him. Bagh!

Ganon has been a favorite character of mine sine the N64. Until I found these boards I have never even met anyone else who likes him, except my brother. I think there are 3 different reasons why Ganon has had trouble with popularity.

1.) You can't button mash with him very well. You can try, but you won't like it very much.

2.) He is difficult to define. Not middle weight, but not heavy either. He is slow and fast at the same time. Some of his attacks seem painfully obtuse, until you learn how to use them.

3.) Did I mention you can't button mash?

There is a reason why MK is number one and Ganon is last in line. MK is a ton of fun to play almost immediately becuase you can pretty much wail on the controller and it will look cool and be at least somewhat effective. Ganon takes time, patience, and planning. He also has no A combo, just one meaty palm strike. The first time I played Ganon on Brawl it was ugly. Like a giant being beaten up by ******* while he clumsily swings and kicks at the air in desperation. Once you figure him out and start to develop strategies, he starts grabbing those ******* and choking them down while booting the others cross eyed. Once you "get" Ganon, those ******* don't stand a chance.

Tipman for the win.

 

[MiraiGen]

Given the fact that this is mostly the pro-competitive boards I wouldn't say Metaknight's fun is about his mashing so much as how he can combo, recover, and KO.

Ganon's problem is he's laggy as hell cause of how powerful his attacks are.

 

[WastingPenguins]

2.) He is difficult to define. Not middle weight, but not heavy either. He is slow and fast at the same time. Some of his attacks seem painfully obtuse, until you learn how to use them.

Really? Personally I'd say he's heavy as hell.

 

[Magus-Cie]

Really? Personally I'd say he's heavy as hell.

Easily one of the heaviest. Only character I think outweighs him is Bowser.

 

[Dragmire]

bowser DK and snake are heavier than him but he somehow outweighs DDD

and wow 1st reason you don't like him is pathetic you don't mash with anyone unless your a noob