Weekly Character Discussion: Ganondorf

[LeeHarris]

Ganondorf is amazingly awesome.

I'll start by posting my favorite Ganon nickname.

Old Man Winter

Type in Old Man Winter to Google Images. What do you get for the 2nd picture?

That's totally him.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

I call him Pedodorf. Or...OldMannendorf, Grandpadorf, Papadorf...the list goes on.

 

[Meleeruler]

Crap, yayuhzz took Old Mannondorf.

I must say, dair is a beast, especially without the lag. I would want to believe that Ganondorf is better than we give him credit for, but which tournaments has he done well in?

 

[AOB]

Grandpadorf is so old!!! And he's slow and he's not even all that strong.

In the next game, he'll be using a walker, and if you crouch you'll hear a *crunch* and you won't be able to move for the rest of the match.

 

[phanna]

His run is epically slow and stick-up-his-***-y, but his aerials are great (don't land the dair though ew), and his side-B is probably one of his key moves now, as much as snake's downthrow with potential for suicide-happy-fun-time. I personally love his new hair, RockCrock johns nonstop about it though, as most melee Ganon mains do about Brawl Ganon in general. I haven't found anyone in Florida who even plays him competitively, sadly.

One of his most interesting changes, is that while in Melee his up-B would give people back their jump (good for teams, bad for edge-guarding), it now not only doesn't recharge your jumps, it takes them all away (eg up-b edge-guarding a multiple jumper takes all their jumps). His down-B no longer gives him back a midair, just like Brawl captain falcon.

He's also top tier at 2-man HRC.

 

[Omnigamer]

All that Ganon needs is a really smart player behind him. Picking up on rolling/action patterns quickly makes for fun and deadly command grab setups. Usmash is great for the lack of cooldown lag, letting you draw people in thinking they can take advantage of a whiff. Uair can still be used for edgegaurding, although be careful against certain characters (MK). Fsmash has a bit of pullback on it, so you can use it as a quick short-range dodge into a powerful hit. Don't depend on it that way though.

That's all I feel like saying for now.

 

[Overswarm]

Sliq can do well with Ganon. He hasn't been to too many tournaments due to him being in NY on a co-op, but I've played him and he does well.

I can beat him with relative ease with characters like ROB and Snake, but even with such a distinct 'stats' advantage, Sliq does impressively well. He has almost single-handedly figured out many of Ganon's tricks on his own time, and has started to realize distinct advantages and disadvantages that others may have missed on.

G-reg's ganon is also pretty beastly, but I've only played it online.

The trick with Ganon is to be extremely patient, take % when you need to, and just wait until you can get the ball rolling. It's all about momentum in Brawl, and this is even more true with Ganon. A simple 3 hit chain can be enough to put them at KO %, and Ganon's edgeguarding can be pretty sick. Especially since he has a mid-air suicide grab!

Ganon's u-tilt is also crazy. It has virtually zero lag afterwards, but takes forever to start. Sliq will pull it out once every few matches and I'll wait for the move to end, run in, and just get smashed in the face.

Ganon's u-smash is also amazing due to its IASA properties. U-smash to anything is awesome, and the timing of u-smash to jab is pretty good against spot dodges.

Ganon can cancel the lag of his down B by doing it off the edge and grabbing. He can also do this in the air as a great way to get back to the stage. If Ganon is recovering from above and can space properly, he gets BACK.

Unfortunately, Ganon has a lot of trouble getting KOs easily. His moves can DO it... but to hit them at the right time with the right move is hard. This generally makes Ganon's stocks start off by him getting pummeled, then him getting a simple chain that puts the opponent in the danger %, then Ganon getting pummeled again until he dies. Ganon then has a chance to kill the opponent with his fresh moves off of respawn. If he doesn't it will almost undoubtedly go back to Ganon getting pummeled again.

Ganon does NOT, however, have trouble getting people off the stage. If a Ganon player could learn to edgeguard incredibly well (and from what I have seen, the potential is there with proper dairs and reverse u-airs), it could make him an offensive disaster. Just imagine Ganon's jab knocking you off the edge at 40%, only to set you up for super edgeguards!

Also, Ganondorf runs silly.

 

[LeeHarris]

Time to throw in my 2 cents. I use Ganon as a counter pick against Snake, DK, Ike, and several other larger/slower characters. I have a lot of trouble against characters like Pikachu, Squirtle, etc that can dart in and out before I can land a hit.

Like OS said, Ganon is about getting those few critical hits in that can bring a player to KO% and finishing them off. I played a Ganon ditto against G-reg over Wifi and I was doing well until my 2nd stock when I killed myself. G-reg landed only a few hits followed by a forward smash and he won.

Here's the video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ4EEw2VIDg

His tilts, jab, and auto cancelled dair and uair are ****ing amazing. He is one of my favorite characters to play and I love catching people off guard when they think Ganon is garbage. I think I may be the only real Ganon player in Texas

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I've tried, I really have. Ganondorf was my main in Melee so I wasn't really expecting him to come back in the same form for Brawl, but when he did I knew I'd have to play around with him. For a little while I even considered maining him, although I quickly changed my mind after playing with him for few days straight. Right now I've delegated the 'dorf to being my n00b-killer character and occasional counterpick character, but I don't know if he'll ever be able to become anything more.

To me, Ganondorf is all aerials and edgeguarding. His Dair is ridiculously fast, autocancels, powerful as hell, and all around one of the few reasons he isn't entirely useless. His Fair is wonderfully strong and fast, but spamming it is a horrible idea. He always has landing lag on the Fair. Double jumping to the Fair will still leave him with lag when you land. Its a dangerous move to use. I have been able to autocancel the Fair if I do a rising fair during the second jump used at the peak of the first jump, but that just seems useless. As for his Bair, well, its an awesome KO move because of its speed, prority, and power. I prefer to keep it for an unexpected well-timed RAR, but I suppose spamming it could also work. His Nair is OK at best, and it seems like one of his better aerials to approach from the front with. But his Uair is essential to his game. One of the few moves in his arsenal that is spammable, the Uair is great for spacing, edgeguarding, and one of his most useful attacks. Ledgehopping the Uair is also quite fun to do against the unsuspecting opponent.

But his ground game suffers quite a bit. His lighting jab is now a lightning palm to the face (facepalm anyone?) that is very, very good to keep people from abusing his slow attacks, and for setting up edgeguards. His up-tilt is still silly, even with the little vacuum they tacked onto it to make it less silly. His down-tilt has surprising range, and pops up the opponent for a Nair, Bair, or most often a well-placed Uair. His forward tilt is probably the only reason why most people use him. Strong, good range, ok speed, and gives the player the opportunity to yell out "THIS IS SPARTA!" without feeling awkward. And yes, I've done that in a few MMs. His smashes are all powerful, but situational, and with the exception of his Up smash, they really shouldn't be used too frequently.

His B attacks don't really help him much either. Well, other than his side B of course. His side B in the air gives him the ability to scare the crap out of someone trying to edgeguard him (assuming they're at the same stock and in the lead of course) and on the ground gives him an awesome techchasing game. His up B is OK for some situations, but its a horrible recovery move. Normally its fine, nothing spectacular, and definitely one of the shorter ones in the game even with its surprisingly long snap. But any smart opponent with good timing will just knock 'dorf off the stage a bit and edgehog him. Thats all you have to do to beat him, and one of the main reasons I dropped him. Opponents can get low percent KOs on a character made to last, simply by edgehogging him at the right time. Sure, you can try to not fall of the edge at low percents, but the way I play 'dorf (and the way I enjoy him) doesn't really give me much of an option.

I play the 'dorf as an edgeguarding beast. I just need to pressure you to the edges, and then good luck getting back. I use his forward throw, jab, and this-is-sparta as my main ways of pressuring opponents to the edge. Of course I have other methods, but those just work the best and are great to fall back on. Once you're off the edge, I can use the combination of my Uair, Bair, and the incredibly awesome Dair to make you stay down. One of my favorite edguarding techniques is doing a rising SH Dair off the edge, then a rising Dair back onto the platform (or just do the second rising Dair and use side B or up B to get back). Works wonders on some characters.

Everything considered though, I don't really see the 'dorf winning many tournaments in the future unless something happens. Maybe a breakout player figures out how to play him incredibly well, or a new technique is discovered that gives him an advantage. All I know is though, he is fun as hell to play with, but at the same time he's frustrating as hell to play with.

Oh yeah, and I'm like the only person who plays with him often and doesn't like using the Granpadorf color. I prefer my bluedorf =D

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

Oldmanondorf = George Washington

I think I've actually switched mains from GW to Ganon. He's incredibly fun to play once you learn the right place for all his moves. Though I may have to stay GW for some matchups like Falco. Falco grab = free ~50% from zero if you end with a dash attack usmash combo from the CG.

I've found nearly all of his moves useful. Fwd B is pretty much the greatest thing ever. His nair is a great combo breaker now and it comes out very fast. His DASH ATTACK omg, it kills lighter characters at ~90% if you have no hit decay, so I save it up for when I get a fwd b and chase with dash attack. The fair sucks now though. It's not as powerful as it looks, and you're practically always going to land with lag from it. I think the grounded down B is a great move also to punish spacing, and sometimes you can combo into it from dthrow at low %. And need I mention stomp -> usmash -> uair? The IASA on the usmash is fing awesome. You can bait people with a whiffed usmash into getting hit by an IASA jab or dtilt. I have to saythe ftilt isn't -quite- as great as it's made out to be. It's outranged by the jab and the dtilt, and slower to come out and recover from, but it sends at a very difficult angle to recover from. I only use it when I am more confident in landing it; jab and dtilt are much better pokes.

Ganon has a few nice edgeguarding tricks; his fwd b instant ledgegrab is amazing against Marth and others. Using uair during invincibility is powerful. If I can get a Marth off the stage such that he needs the edge to recover, it's over. The ledge-cancelled down b off the edge is cool, it's actually a faster form of movement than his AMAZING run.

Also the suicide grab. It is not hard to bait people to get close to the edge, since you can ledgehop fwd b suicide. It's almost always worth a shot if you're up a stock.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i still call him gameanddorf or ganonwatch... even though that makes no sense anymore...

i guess it never did either lol

 

[chesterr01]

hyuga's post was most informative, he's the only one to have mentioned the power of Ganondorf's dash attack. I always save it, and I kill with it. I usually yell when I connect it.

You can air dodge the upsmash after the stomp but you can do stomp into nair, that's a combo 95% of the time ( the 5% is for when brawl does something unexpected). Dtilt's range is sneaky, and dair ***** snake after ftilt. spike those snakes.

 

[LeeHarris]

Hot **** Ganon is dirty. I've been practicing lots with him the past few days.

- Dash away and pivot the forward smash or side B for sexy results
- I've found that cancelled dair to uair is more effective because you just punish them after their instinctive airdodge.
- Like chester said, save your dash attack and use that to kill. If you save it the entire stock they won't be expecting it and then when it comes out it'll be fully charged and ready to own.
- Dair to jab is nearly unpunishable. I love doing it. People run in thinking they can grab me or do a dash attack only to get a jab to the face. Same with up smash to jab.
- D tilt has amazing reach and its very deceptive. Definitely an awesome move against shorter characters like Pikachu, Squirtle, Lucas, etc.
- I'm pretty sure if you side B, dash away, and pivot another side B towards them it will always reach someone rolling away from you or getting up. If they roll towards you you just dair.
- One of Sliq's posts said that if you full hop a fair from a platform you won't have any landing lag. I like to do that off the side platforms on Battlefield and immediately jump into another fair for edgeguarding.

Ganon ****ing rocks.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

The Ganon love stopped pretty early it seems. I personally have high hopes for the 'dorf in the future. I know he's one of the worst in the game right now, but I feel that will change once we have more experience and time.

But anyways, I'll be movin' the thread as soon the summary is up.

 

[LeeHarris]

One more post before the summary:

The Ganon love stopped so soon because he's not very popular. Few people have good experience playing against him and even fewer have experience playing with him. I know that G-reg, Sliq, I, and only a few others have even bothered to attempt Ganon. He is one of my favorite characters but he is much harder to use than someone like MK. Regardless, he is ****ing awesome and if you don't try to use him you are most likely a Scandanavian girl.

 

[LeeHarris]

Ganon is a beast. When Brawl was first released he was considered by most to be one of the worst characters in the game. Shortly after release, however, several people discovered that a few aerials could be auto canceled with perfect timing and some of his ground moves had IASA frames. This helped Ganon's speed, but he still shines strongest in one category: power.

Ganon hits like a freakin bus full of fat people. Nearly every move is a capable killer and it only takes a few hits to get your opponent to the point of imminent doom. If you can land an auto canceled d-air and follow with an aerial you can get your opponent up to over 40% before they even touch you. Even Ganon's dash attack is a powerful kill move, destroying lighter opponents at around 80% fresh. His power combined with his far reach can catch quicker opponents off guard and send them flying. There's nothing quite like kicking Snake in the chest with a stretched out f-tilt and quietly whispering, "this is sparta" to yourself.

Although we all harp on Ganon's quickness, he isn't as slow as you'd think. His n-air comes out very fast and can catch aerial attackers off guard. His neutral jab, d-tilt, and f-tilt are all surprisingly quick and powerful. His up smash has IASA frames and can quickly cancel into a jab or a d-tilt. His real weakness lies in his running speed and the wind down on several moves. That is why only an expert can effectively wield Ganon. If you completely whiff an f-smash, a d-smash, or you fail to auto-cancel a move - you're screwed.

All in all, I'd say Ganon rules. That may sound a bit general for a summary, but we're talking about Old Man Winter here. He's certainly not top tier, but who cares? He's a badass.

 

[Kyari]

I always knew he wasn't bottom tier trash :D. There's a Bloomington, IN player who uses Ganon, really confused me when I first played him. I said this before in another thread, but he beat my Game and Watch, lost to my Marth... but they were still close games. I'd say he has more potential than Sonic, and perhaps could land somewhere along middle tier, once everybody realizes how powerful he is and how much sluggishness can be removed from his game.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I'm not exactly sure about Ganon having more potential than Sonic, but who knows what the future holds.

Everything after this post is general discussion!

 

[:034:]

Wait wait wait.

You all think Ganondorf isn't trash?

Crazy.

 

[Kyari]

I say that because, unlike Sonic, Ganon is actually threatening, where it seems like with Sonic, there are only a couple of attacks to watch out for. In a game of insane recoveries and stale moves, it's nice to be able to KO. It's been a while since I've played the Ganon south of me, but we're going to be playing in a couple of weeks so I'll see if his Ganon still holds up to my characters after all of this time.

 

[Empy]

I've tried, I really have. Ganondorf was my main in Melee so I wasn't really expecting him to come back in the same form for Brawl, but when he did I knew I'd have to play around with him. For a little while I even considered maining him, although I quickly changed my mind after playing with him for few days straight. Right now I've delegated the 'dorf to being my n00b-killer character and occasional counterpick character, but I don't know if he'll ever be able to become anything more.

I think this best describes Ganondorf. He is amazing against n00bs or generally, players who haven't fought too many Ganondorf players. However, if you can keep him at bay and avoid his dair, by rolling different directions or using your "get-up attack", you can fight him with more ease. The main thing Ganondorf suffers from, imo, is the fact that he doesn't have any really good match-ups. There aren't any characters he destroys.

Also, he does have some trouble with his recovery. His sideB is pretty easily gimped and I think a lot of Ganon users will need to be more careful with it. I'd say the best things Ganon has going for him are the dair, jab, the nair spike and the element of surprise. Once Ganon is predicted and didn't use either dair or jab, he can be punished pretty heavily.

 

[Tenki]

^n-air spike.. wut.
@.@ Predictability arguments are always the same though. Ike players are familiar with it. "But good ____ aren't predictable, they mindgame"

There aren't any characters he destroys... specifically. He kinda destroys everyone with the same prejudice once he gets in range. Projectile characters are said to have advantages over him, due to his slow approach and their ability to get 'more hits' before he gets to them, not taking shielding or dodging in mind. Smaller faster characters... like SONIC
...or characters who can move while either outprioritizing or outranging him, able to get around his moves, seem to give him trouble though.

@.@; Also, Ganon's u-air is pretty good too. I fought Swil/Swoops (hey, he's a TX Ganon main lol) and he used U-air often. It creates an aura around you, like a backwards Ike N-air. D-air is good, but its range requires you to be really close to them, so it's situational, if anything.

His shield pressure is too good :<
2 d-airs > Murder Fist.

 

[3GOD]

I've been thinking that Ganon could be a really good teams character. He has trouble in singles in large part because of his amazing running abilities, but I think he could be a good asset in teams because basically every move is a potential KO move.

Teamed with MK or ROB (anyone who can rack up damage fast), he could be a real threat. I especially like the idea of him waiting for his team mate to pop someone up for a Fair, Bair, or Uair.

 

[Sliq]

Ganon is way easier to play offline. That is all.

Furthermore, Ganon can break tall characters shields with ONE approach. I'm not telling you how, but when I do it to you, you will know. And then you'll be dead.

 

[Kilut]

Was I the only one who lol'ed when they saw it was Ganon? Whatever...

But still, his dair is amazing... my friend uses g-dorf just because he likes the dair, but he still stinks with him... It just seems like untill one person starts ****** with him, he'll just kind of stall...

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I always knew he wasn't bottom tier trash :D. There's a Bloomington, IN player who uses Ganon, really confused me when I first played him. I said this before in another thread, but he beat my Game and Watch, lost to my Marth... but they were still close games. I'd say he has more potential than Sonic, and perhaps could land somewhere along middle tier, once everybody realizes how powerful he is and how much sluggishness can be removed from his game.

are you talking about terry? if you don't know his name tell me his gamer tag i would know it if i see it

i played as ganon in friendlys when the game first came out so i feel he has what it takes to be a dangerous opponent, but what i really like about him is the look on peoples faces when they lose to you when you are using him

 

[-Aether]

I say that because, unlike Sonic, Ganon is actually threatening, where it seems like with Sonic, there are only a couple of attacks to watch out for. In a game of insane recoveries and stale moves, it's nice to be able to KO. It's been a while since I've played the Ganon south of me, but we're going to be playing in a couple of weeks so I'll see if his Ganon still holds up to my characters after all of this time.

True statement here; especially the part about insane recovery and stale moves. But, on the other hand, defensive options are much better in this game (shielding/rolling/sidestepping) which makes landing moves as Ganon improbable. However, I do agree that Ganon rocks the "potential boat" a little bit more than Sonic.

 

[The_Dyne]

Yay! I am so glad you guys did Ganondorf!
BTW, Grampadorf is boring, it's all about the blood red.

 

[Ulevo]

I find Ganondorf to be an awesome combatant with loads of potential. He is definitely an advanced players character, and no less. Because of this, his game won't progress as fast as the rest of the cast, but he still rocks.

His Up Smash happens to be quite fast for being one of Ganon's moves, and has IASA Frames to boot, which can be canceled into a Jab, FTilt, or another Up Smash. I also believe one can combo a Dair with this move, but I may be recalling incorrectly. His Forward Smash isn't all that useful, but can be good on a pivot. It can also be directed downward at enemies returning to the stage, in case you're looking to KO rather than pop them up via Dtilt. His DSmash has wide range, and hits twice like it did it Melee. I would recommend using this sparingly though, as too much use will likely result in Ganon being punished.

His Jab isn't as fast as it once was, but it definitely makes up for that in reach, and the change in speed is minimal. It is still one of Ganons best moves, and can combo out of an Up Smash, Dair, and Forward B. His FTilt, aka "Sparta Kick" has a huge hit box, and is awesome for side KOs, and also combos out of Forward B. His DTilt is good for popping opponents up, and a decent edge guard option. It comes out fairly quick too, and has good range in front. Also, like the other previously mentioned attacks, it combos out of the Forward B. As for the UTilt, don't use it.

His Aerials are all fairly good in there own right, save for maybe the Nair. His Bair has quite a bit of range behind Ganon packed with good knock back, but unfortunately is not an amazing approach through RARing because of how tall Ganon is. His Fair has horendous lag, but comes out fairly fast and can be lag canceled if it is done through a rising double jump. His Uair is very good, as it comes out quick, and hits in front, up top, and behind him. It is really good for edge guarding and stage spiking if you hit with the toe on the back end of it when it's reversed. It is also one of his most reliable means of protection when getting back on the stage through ledge hop attacks. His Dair, through auto canceling, has to be one of his best attacks next to his Forward B. It has zero lag if executed properly, does massive damage, and spikes like mad. As for his Nair, it has it's situational uses, but it's hitbox is deceivingly low, and does not have great knock back or combo potential. Maybe I'm missing something here.

His Specials, while not all are great, offer him the support he needs for his laggy play style. His Forward B is the best thing he has going for him. It by passes shields of any sort, and can lead to suicides, combos from the jab/FTilt/DTilt, KO's through JC Up Smash out of a shield, or amazing tech chases. His Down B is very strong and can have it's lag canceled if used while kicking off the stage. It can also be used for approaches back onto the stage when you are high above. Using this out of a Forward B is a nice alternative to a tech chase, and is will kills at decent percents this way. His Neutral B has very small uses due to how slow it is, but it is the prime move to use after a shield is broken. It is also worth mentioning that if you use a B Turnaround with the Warlock Punch and then use it's reverse animation it covers quite a bit of distance in the air. Aside from that, it's uses are limited to catching someone off guard after a laggy move or recovery. His Up B is very good to use out of a shield, and has a disturbing grab range to it. Edge popping with this technique is also a good method to deter opponents from trying to edge guard you, and is a great surprise tactic.

I do not have much experience with his throws, so I am going to refrain from elaborating on them.

Ganon is just too awesome for words. He runs like he ate ex lax chocolates and he pulls out a sword he never uses, but we love him anyway. In the hands of an experienced player, he is amazing, and will surprise a lot of people. I also highly recommend for you Ganon players to check this thread out if you haven't already:

The Murder Choke Breakdown

 

[piffman2]

I have recently decided to main Ganondorf so I'm kinda lucky that all of this intelligent discussion on him is happening now.

I've been thinking that Ganon could be a really good teams character. He has trouble in singles in large part because of his amazing running abilities, but I think he could be a good asset in teams because basically every move is a potential KO move.

Teamed with MK or ROB (anyone who can rack up damage fast), he could be a real threat. I especially like the idea of him waiting for his team mate to pop someone up for a Fair, Bair, or Uair.

ROB is a good partner for Ganon, my friend has a pretty good ROB and the effectiveness of our combination was surprisingly awesome. ROB can rack of damage leaving Ganon to finish them off with one hit. Plus ROB has some nice projectiles. We're thinking about going to a tournament as a doubles team.

I do have one question. Has anyone discovered a use for the punch at the tip of Ganon's upB? I thought it might be effective in attacking people on the ledge trying to edgeguard him but I haven't tested it out.

 

[Ulevo]

I have recently decided to main Ganondorf so I'm kinda lucky that all of this intelligent discussion on him is happening now.



ROB is a good partner for Ganon, my friend has a pretty good ROB and the effectiveness of our combination was surprisingly awesome. ROB can rack of damage leaving Ganon to finish them off with one hit. Plus ROB has some nice projectiles. We're thinking about going to a tournament as a doubles team.

I do have one question. Has anyone discovered a use for the punch at the tip of Ganon's upB? I thought it might be effective in attacking people on the ledge trying to edgeguard him but I haven't tested it out.

If you edge pop his Up B (hold down while using Up B in order to avoid snapping to the ledge) when spacing this properly, you can hit someone with the end of it, while still clinging if you stop holding down fast enough. I suppose it has it's situational uses beyond that, but nothing specific comes to mind.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

I honestly don't see the potential with the Dorf. yes players can always get better if they properly plan out their attacks and form mindgames but that's not something exclusive to one character. From the dorfs I've played, there is an over aliance in his side special and arial attacks. which really doesn't make sense to the warlock because of his horrible jumps. Thus he dwindles both in arials and edge guarding the two essentials to his play.

I honestly believe as time goes by Ganon might actually go down in 'supposed' tier. While he has some fast attacks, his general running speed is slow, his jumping dynamics suck and he basically in the mercy of any distance or speed fighter in the game which when considered almost covers the entire cast.

He works best as a noob killer. He has pretty powerful attacks and can really can lay out some suprisingly quick decent hits. But in the world of mental strategy and technical prowness I can't see a player really working well with him.

 

[HeoandReo]

I didn't even think it would be Ganon for this week's discussion, myself. I was actually thinking Wario, but maining Ganon myself, I should've realized it sooner.

Ganon is quite good in the air. fair kills, bair can kill, uair juggles, spike, and kills, and dair is the best move ever.

EDIT: The hint didn't mention ground game, so I'm removing my input on it.

 

[Sliq]

I honestly believe as time goes by Ganon might actually go down in 'supposed' tier.

He's currently the supposed worst character in the game, so I highly doubt he'll go down the tier list.

 

[Zombie-Hero]

I love playing gannon. For awhile, i considered trying to become good with him was nothing more than a timesink, where i could be learning 'better' characters. However, playing Gdorf is great fun, and nothing is more hilarious than one of his murder-suicides.

Gannon is all in the mindgames, with his side+b. If you can't get one of the choke followups listed in the link posted earlier, you still have several options. For instance, some characters i have problem being in range to do a shield grab attack on a get-up, but a short hop Nair does a decent job punishing this.

It is really cool that this character was picked, even though i thought wario. I didnt even think about using a B move to get rid of spammers (wizard's foot, presumedly), but that has to be situational, if you are too far away you can be punished. I didn't know about the Up+B robbing multiple jumps, either.

Anyways, if anyone is looking for a character for good, simple fun, def take a look in his direction.

 

[Tenki]

I'm not sure how well the mindgames work with someone who's familiar with Ganondorf.

I'm not sure when I did the match-ups between Sonic and Ganondorf, but I had come from maining/having Ganondorf as a second, but I'm familiar with his movements and playstyle, so it was much easier for me to pre-emptively counter (...prevent?) his moves. Simple things like not reacting immediately after a Flame Choke, or knowing when they'll most likely go for Ganoncides I'm sure made it an annoyance to fight against me.

 

[Zombie-Hero]

I'm not sure how well the mindgames work with someone who's familiar with Ganondorf.

I'm not sure when I did the match-ups between Sonic and Ganondorf, but I had come from maining/having Ganondorf as a second, but I'm familiar with his movements and playstyle, so it was much easier for me to pre-emptively counter (...prevent?) his moves. Simple things like not reacting immediately after a Flame Choke, or knowing when they'll most likely go for Ganoncides I'm sure made it an annoyance to fight against me.

Well, more than any other character, Gannondorf matches can be broken down into separate discrete units, with the pause in the choke. So it makes what follows up a choke fall into the game theory area, (sort of like baseball pitches). This is what i meant by mind games, so maybe i didn't use the term in the traditional sense. So, assuming Gdorf doesn't follow up on a choke with a jab/dtilt, Gannon then has a choice of followups based on the victim's reaction. For instance, if victim pauses on the ground, gannon could then short hop, anticipating a get-up. Since Nair has landing lag, but comes out quick, then he could wait for a getup, or maybe pressure with a down+b (rare, but high payoff, so it might be a good idea since it is a 'bad' decision), or Gdorf could jump again if he wasn't sure of the outcome. Just because he is slow doesn't mean he can't be played unpredictably, even against those familiar to him.

 

[Sliq]

The fact of the matter is that if you are playing Ganondorf and accurately follow someone after and over b, you can ultimately hit them with whatever you want (within the realm of reason).

Roll away, you can forward air or over b again, behind is an f smash, stomp, over b. Get up is an f smash, stomp, over b, fair. Get up attack is a stomp, shield grab, over b, fair, etc.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Was I the only one who lol'ed when they saw it was Ganon? Whatever...

Count me as two. ^^

Honestly Ganondorf isn't that bad. I think he's just low tier material.

Characters I think are worse than Ganondorf:
Ivysaur (can't do damage, telegraphed kill options, no recovery)
Sonic (can't win in priority, and can't kill)
Captain Falcon (can't win in priority, can't grab, and can't kill)

I think of Ganondorf a lot like Melee G&W. He is great at offense, but his defense is godawful. Oh yeah and his recovery is lousy. I see much correlation lol.

 

[Anth0ny]

My 2 cents on Ganon:

He's not as absolutely horrible as everyone says he is. His tilts (except his uptilt...oh GAWD), jab and aerials are all fast and powerful. Not to mention that his side b is amazing and even his falcon kick is quick and could kill. Sure, there's the lag, but that's what makes him a bad character. If you play him smart, you could avoid getting punished by the lag. However, playing him smart is the tough part