Weekly Character Discussion: Ganondorf

[Overswarm]

Also new, I also a huge fan of Ganon. It's good to see some real love for the ol' Dorf Monster (as I call him) after so much disinterest. I once saw someone who ruled out Ganon becuase they said he sucked in Melee and hence, probably sucks in Brawl so they won't play him. Bagh!

Ganon has been a favorite character of mine sine the N64. Until I found these boards I have never even met anyone else who likes him, except my brother. I think there are 3 different reasons why Ganon has had trouble with popularity.

1.) You can't button mash with him very well. You can try, but you won't like it very much.

2.) He is difficult to define. Not middle weight, but not heavy either. He is slow and fast at the same time. Some of his attacks seem painfully obtuse, until you learn how to use them.

3.) Did I mention you can't button mash?

There is a reason why MK is number one and Ganon is last in line. MK is a ton of fun to play almost immediately becuase you can pretty much wail on the controller and it will look cool and be at least somewhat effective. Ganon takes time, patience, and planning. He also has no A combo, just one meaty palm strike. The first time I played Ganon on Brawl it was ugly. Like a giant being beaten up by ******* while he clumsily swings and kicks at the air in desperation. Once you figure him out and start to develop strategies, he starts grabbing those ******* and choking them down while booting the others cross eyed. Once you "get" Ganon, those ******* don't stand a chance.

Tipman for the win.

hahahahaha.... best troll post I've seen in a month.

 

[MiraiGen]

And subtle too.

 

[Aleol]

Y'all try running in full plate armor. It feels like a pole's up your ***. You can't move your back.

I've been able to use Warlock punch and Sparta kick and f-air as edgeguarding. I've had trouble picking up the advance techniques, but Ganon is still a beast in battle. he definitely has trouble against faster chars. All he needs is some good timing, and he's a beast

 

[MiraiGen]

I'd recommend using utilt instead of Warlock Punch. Warlock Punch is easy as hell to predict when and where it's going to hit, because his animation changes fluidly and his voice goes on through the entire attack. Utilt you stop, put your leg in the air, and wait. It's much more difficult to predict, and I've seen some pretty great edgeguarding off of it.

Warlock punch is the ultimate silly casuals attack.

Sparta kick, by all means. Great surprise KO move if you keep it in reserve.

 

[Union of Darkness]

I'd recommend using utilt instead of Warlock Punch. Warlock Punch is easy as hell to predict when and where it's going to hit, because his animation changes fluidly and his voice goes on through the entire attack. Utilt you stop, put your leg in the air, and wait. It's much more difficult to predict, and I've seen some pretty great edgeguarding off of it.

I can vouch for this. Ganon's u-tilt has gotten me a fair amount of KOs off the edge. If you stand close enough to the edge the attack can connect if they're hanging from edge and not invincible. Not many people hang on the edge for long, but it's a big surprise to those that don't know better.

 

[Aleol]

Thanks for the advice. I've only used warlock punch when I was absolutely sure it was going to connect though. I'll try using u-tilt the next time. Then again, I'm not the best at edgeguarding...

 

[MiraiGen]

Ganondorf doesn't need to edgeguard that much - just make sure you land an Ftilt or Dair at decent percentages and they die no matter what. Bus full of fat people and all.

 

[Griffard]

Ganondorf doesn't need to edgeguard that much - just make sure you land an Ftilt or Dair at decent percentages and they die no matter what. Bus full of fat people and all.

I definitely agree for most cases. At certain angles though, like when the opponent is approaching diagonally upwards at a slight angle, a backwards up air can mean a stocks difference. Up tilt is handy occasionally for mixing it up, but spiking with wizard's foot or t stomping or just sparta kicking all work fine and are simple.

 

[MiraiGen]

I think that Sakurai saw most Marth/Shiek/Falco/Fox battles and noticed how crucial spiking was, and from there, realized that spiking should be made so it isn't nearly as brutal.

The only one who really can do it is Samus, and it's starting to seem like it's half of her KO game.

Ganondorf could spike but why bother? He's a tank. Use him like one.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Ganondorf could spike but why bother? He's a tank. Use him like one.

Because he's got the best dair in the game?

Given a good chance to spike, you can bet I'll take it... except for mindgames.

 

[MiraiGen]

I don't like to risk it. His recoveries leave him horribly vulnerable and mess up a Flame choke to recover and you end up Ganonciding. It just isn't worth it to me.

He may have the best Dair in the game but it's a straight damage racker for me.

 

[Griffard]

I don't like to risk it. His recoveries leave him horribly vulnerable and mess up a Flame choke to recover and you end up Ganonciding. It just isn't worth it to me.

He may have the best Dair in the game but it's a straight damage racker for me.

just learn to do it right? if you work on it it's hazard-less

 

[Greenstreet]

Grandpadorf is so old!!! And he's slow and he's not even all that strong.

In the next game, he'll be using a walker, and if you crouch you'll hear a *crunch* and you won't be able to move for the rest of the match.

lol acquired

 

[BrawlerChief]

I was looking at a close up of ganondorf face (melee verson) and he looked like ghandhi >.<

 

[mimic_king]

i think that ganondorf has been nerfed from melee big time. he's slower, and that pretty much explains everything else

 

[crap monkey]

Uh, I just want to add one thing, earlier in the topic people were talking about good ways to thunderstorm. Well, I asked this board about a week or two ago and someone told me L-Jump +c-stick down is very good method. The reason for this being that it allows you to move much easier than any method involving the analog stick. I found that when I tried the traditional method of Analog down Y+A that if you didn't time it perfectly, you couldn't move to the side without accidentally doing a Fair or Bair. With the L-jump method you can move freely back and forth and the timing is much easier to pull off. I actually find this a good approach method. My friend constantly tells me of how scared he is to try and punish me because if he doesn't time his attack perfectly he misses and gets stomped or is attacked with a lagless groundmove (my favorite being palm for quickness, F-tilt for KO surprise or D-tilt if they're a bit far away). Hope this helps somebody out like it did me!

 

[mimic_king]

i didnt understand what you said

 

[Clever_Sleazoid]

So, how d you avoid a chaingrabbed spike death from Falco with Ganon? Because quite frankly I lose to good Falco's every time because I am unable to avoid this, and it's annoying as hll because otherwise I would be winning every match.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Don't get grabbed. =(

 

[PukeTShirt]

Uh, I just want to add one thing, earlier in the topic people were talking about good ways to thunderstorm. Well, I asked this board about a week or two ago and someone told me L-Jump +c-stick down is very good method. The reason for this being that it allows you to move much easier than any method involving the analog stick. I found that when I tried the traditional method of Analog down Y+A that if you didn't time it perfectly, you couldn't move to the side without accidentally doing a Fair or Bair. With the L-jump method you can move freely back and forth and the timing is much easier to pull off. I actually find this a good approach method. My friend constantly tells me of how scared he is to try and punish me because if he doesn't time his attack perfectly he misses and gets stomped or is attacked with a lagless groundmove (my favorite being palm for quickness, F-tilt for KO surprise or D-tilt if they're a bit far away). Hope this helps somebody out like it did me!

seconded, the L for jump and c-stick combo for thunderstorming is easily my favorite way to do it. i was struggling for a while trying to do it, and got it literally AS SOON AS i switched to L for jump + c stick down

 

[deadpoe7]

Word! Yeah, that's how I got it, too. Still can't consistently storm, but I can do it once.

 

[Sliq]

Dudes, seriously, thunderstorming isn't that hard to do. PRACTICE MORE.

 

[deadpoe7]

Yeah, I know, I just haven't spent time in training mode to get the mindset for it.

 

[Koskinator]

The easiest way to thunderstorm in my experience, is short hop with X, then slide your thumb down really fast to hit down on c stick. Should work great, and lets you DI left or right while your doing it.

 

[Deception]

Another great method of thunderstorming is using tap jump and c-stick down. Run in the direction you want, slide the stick upwards, then quickly use your other thumb to move the c-stick down.

 

[SaltyKracka]

The easiest way to thunderstorm in my experience, is short hop with X, then slide your thumb down really fast to hit down on c stick. Should work great, and lets you DI left or right while your doing it.

Funny, I just hit X and do the Hadouken motion on the analog stick while pressing A. It works great, too.

 

[deadpoe7]

Okay, I've come to the conclusion that Ike is un-thunderstorm-able...No matter WHAT move he's doing, that front-upwards portion of his hitbox is ALWAYS occupied! Ike could be ASLEEP and his bandanna would still flicker violently to cover the front-upwards hitbox!


YAAAAAAAAAR!

As you've prb guessed it, I just got done fighting my buddy who mains Ike. Thunderstorming didn't go well.

 

[Finns7]

Thunderstorming always goes well espeacially against Ike imo...you just have to find an opening.

 

[deadpoe7]

Seriously?...I'm gonna have to watch some vids then, b/c it's hard for me to find one. (Now that I think about it, maybe out of a shield would work)

 

[MiraiGen]

Try doing it out of his roll.

Flamechoke, and try to predict where he's moving. It isn't easy but if you're Autocancelling it you can just step away before he can hit you back with that insane range of his.

 

[Sliq]

You can pretty much fair out of flame choke my reading it right. The lag from the fair is negligible if you hit them, and if you start it early enough they should still be recovering from their recovery animation, letting you get away with it.

 

[mimic_king]

Flame choke sucks. When you use it as a suicide, you don't win. Either the other person wins or it's sudden death. However, if you've seen Ganondorf's combo vids, you might see that flame choke is the only move that does something.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Flame choke sucks. When you use it as a suicide, you don't win. Either the other person wins or it's sudden death. However, if you've seen Ganondorf's combo vids, you might see that flame choke is the only move that does something.

Please die.

 

[hyperstation]

Flame choke sucks. When you use it as a suicide, you don't win. Either the other person wins or it's sudden death. However, if you've seen Ganondorf's combo vids, you might see that flame choke is the only move that does something.

What you wrote here was not only confusing, but it was simply wrong. First, flame choke doesn't suck. It has true combo follow-ups along with kill follow-ups (iDA, Stomp, Fair). Whether or not Ganondorf wins on a ganoncide depends on which controller port he's synced with. If he's P1, he wins (I believe this is how it works). Also, I rarely use Ganoncides to finish a fight. I use them if I go up 3 stock to 2 and I have really high percentage while they have low percentage. I kill them and we go to 2 stock to 1 both at 0%. Also, if I'm up 2 to 1, a ganoncide wins.

I have no idea what you were trying to say about combo vids.

 

[mimic_king]

In some of the combo vids i've seen, the player uses flame choke constantly. In the sense that it sucks, it's because it can easily be countered, but the people that these players were playing obviously aren't smart enough to know that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73Vx9JQPGNA&feature=related

500 POSTS!!!!

 

[SaltyKracka]

In some of the combo vids i've seen, the player uses flame choke constantly. In the sense that it sucks, it's because it can easily be countered, but the people that these players were playing obviously aren't smart enough to know that.

Again, please either learn or GTFO.

 

[mimic_king]

did you not see the video I posted? The first fight he did a bunch of flame chokes.

 

[SaltyKracka]

did you not see the video I posted? The first fight he did a bunch of flame chokes.

This is called techchasing and was largely eclipsed by the Murder choke combos. However, it also means that you're wrong.

And on another note, that was back in May. This is October. Now stop using outdated information.

 

[mimic_king]

How can it be outdated? I'm pretty sure people still use that.

 

[SaltyKracka]

How can it be outdated? I'm pretty sure people still use that.

And I'm pretty sure that you need to have a little sitdown with Swoops before you embarass yourself further. So go read his guide and then get back to me. Kthxbai.