We really need to get rid of the turmoil thats been going on recently.

[da K.I.D.]

effing school...

 

[Trillion]

I don't want to open a new can of worms as far as topics for us to be trying to gather info, but does anyone know what causes the down air to hit someone vertical rather than horizontal?

 

[da K.I.D.]

sonic orochis guide to down air
youtube it

my bad its anthinuss guide to down air

 

[Tenki]

lol it's not even that complicated.

a non-sweetspot D-air sends upwards. if it's really steep, then it's because your opponent DI'd it to be that way.

that's all.

 

[da K.I.D.]

it always sends up wards if they are on the ground tho...

get it right son.

STEP YO GAYME UP!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTvMeBmw15k

 

[Trillion]

Yeah, I watched that, but I'm talking about pure vertical no horizontal movement. it may be caused by them not being prepared to DI, but I'm not sure. Watch in my combo video at 5:20 and at 6:36 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZg7WL5UB1s&feature=channel_page. I hit both ivysaur and squirtle straight vertical. I'm trying to figure out why.

 

[Tenki]

it always sends up wards if they are on the ground tho...

get it right son.

STEP YO GAYME UP!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTvMeBmw15k

Oh yeah, that too

-.-;

@magnificentmagnumartha:

a non-sweetspot D-air sends upwards. if it's really steep, then it's because your opponent DI'd it to be that way.

that's all.

5:20 was grounded and the 6:36 one was a late D-air, both DI'd towards you.

 

[da K.I.D.]

that was bad DI on their part

 

[Trillion]

well, the problem is that I can't replicate 5:23. I tried going into training mode and putting a squirtle at that percent and facing him away from me and trying to make it happen again, but I can't do it. he goes to the side and stuff. I WAS able to make it happen ONCE by having hitting the squirtle in the center of his shell while he was running. The reason I want to figure it out is so that I can see if it is possible to replicate that combo on places that have low ceilings in order to get low percent kills. Rainbow cruise could earn us a kill at like 40% or something if we could use that or the anthinus combo to set ourselves up.

 

[Tenki]

well, the problem is that I can't replicate 5:23. I tried going into training mode and putting a squirtle at that percent and facing him away from me and trying to make it happen again, but I can't do it.

It looks like the situation was this:
- He was grounded
- You hit him with the latter part of your D-air
- He DI's towards you.

It doesn't matter what direction Squirtle was facing, or even what direction Sonic is facing. Just that Squirtle is on the ground, and what side Squirtle is relative to the hit and his DI.

 

[Trillion]

Thats what i thought too Tenki, but it doesn't seem to be quite that way. If I have a squirtle standing in training mode not moving and I hit him with the D-air in the exact same way, then he still doesn't go completely vertical like that. In the video, the squirtle was running on the ground to chase my landing when I hit him. Meaning he was probably DI-ing away from me since he was running that direction. The problem is that his DI didn't carry him that direction, which is what led me to think that perhaps his body position mattered.

I even tried setting the squirtle in training mode to human control so that he wouldn't be DI-ing at all and he still moved away.

 

[Tenki]

- He DI's towards you.

In the video, the squirtle was running on the ground to chase my landing when I hit him. Meaning he was probably DI-ing away from me since he was running that direction.

He was on your left side when you landed, so he was sent leftwards (left/up).

If his DI was going towards you, it pushes it away from horizontal and more towards vertical.

:<

 

[Boxob.]

I thought I clicked on my Sonic boards tab. Not the drama boards. D:

Just every, don't act like jerks all the time, it isn't hard.

 

[Trillion]

Ok, I just got it. It IS if they DI towards. I put the training mode to 1/2 speed and had sonic dair to a squirtle on the right of him. I had the squritle DI left, towards him, and he went straight up. I guess for some reason the squirtle in my video tried to change direction last second and ended up DI-ing toward me. Thanks for the help on that.

 

[Tenki]

nvm ;o

 

[Trillion]

so, it might not be so great, but if a metaknight is stearing his tornado toward you and you could get the dair, then he might still be DI-ing toward you and give you a chance to use that combo. Probably wouldn't happen to often I guess. You'd have to predict it is coming and be able to get out of the dair lag soon enough to punish him with the spirng > uair combo.

Similar to the place the spring under a tornado to make them drill off the side

 

[Tenki]

Something I've been meaning to work on was the spacing for 'lagless' D-air, but not too high:
low enough to hit your opponent on the ground without sending you into landing lag, which is pretty much what you pulled off there.

 

[Jim Morrison]

New topic:

I need help what to do out of this:

So, first hit of U-air has set knockback (truth). This can be useful especially useful on certain characters. Do a grounded spring which they will land on. They will fly up with you. Imagine Anti-thingy combo, but started with first hit of U-air. This doesn't work on heavy/big characters, like Bowser or Crapton Flacon. This works extremely on Mario and characters like him. He immedeatly gets on the spring after the hit up. You and Mario go up synchronized. U-air from the spring doesn't work on him, N-air, D-air and B-air do though.

It seems a valid trick, but there's got to be something better out of it. I always manage to land a foolstool on them, however they just drop back on the spring.

 

[Tenki]

Ohh.

I only skimmed it and what I thought you were doing was like, setting up a spring, then landing near them with a U-air, knocking them into the spring (wtf DI reading) then following up with a spring or double jump aerial of your own for the punish without flying up with them vulnerable like you would if you mistimed the spring and rose too late, like most people do when they try the Anthinus combo.

 

[Trillion]

Something I've been meaning to work on was the spacing for 'lagless' D-air, but not too high:
low enough to hit your opponent on the ground without sending you into landing lag, which is pretty much what you pulled off there.

The only spacing I know for the lagless dair (which I'm sure you already know) is that if you use the spring and then dair at about final height of it then it cancels. You can fall for a few frames and still have a lagless D-air landing, but with such a large distance to the ground, I haven't been able to figure out how to get up there and use the D-air to lagless landing for anything very effective. I've been trying though because the speed of it and the knockback it causes could set up some sweet combos I bet.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Ohh.

I only skimmed it and what I thought you were doing was like, setting up a spring, then landing near them with a U-air, knocking them into the spring (wtf DI reading) then following up with a spring or double jump aerial of your own for the punish without flying up with them vulnerable like you would if you mistimed the spring and rose too late, like most people do when they try the Anthinus combo.

Are you dyslexic or something? Even skimming wouldn't make that.

 

[Trillion]

New topic:

I need help what to do out of this:

It seems a valid trick, but there's got to be something better out of it. I always manage to land a foolstool on them, however they just drop back on the spring.

If a footstool drops them onto the spring, then could you then dair onto the spring without hitting the opponent? If you could, then basically since they are bouncing off the sping and then you are too, then you could up air and be below them enough to hit with it to get the kill.

 

[Tenki]

The only spacing I know for the lagless dair (which I'm sure you already know) is that if you use the spring and then dair at about final height of it then it cancels. You can fall for a few frames and still have a lagless D-air landing, but with such a large distance to the ground, I haven't been able to figure out how to get up there and use the D-air to lagless landing for anything very effective. I've been trying though because the speed of it and the knockback it causes could set up some sweet combos I bet.

The problem with that one is that it's too high to be useful unless you're trying to pick up bananas on landing or if your opponent is in midair/tall. If you do it just sliightly lower then you can get the lagless landing while still having the hitbox out.

If a footstool drops them onto the spring, then could you then dair onto the spring without hitting the opponent? If you could, then basically since they are bouncing off the sping and then you are too, then you could up air and be below them enough to hit with it to get the kill.

@your question:
Yes/no?
If you mean grounded opponent, it's possible with a max-height D-air. If you mean on a footstooled opponent, then no. They'll rise during your startup lag.

haha....

I had this superexperimental spring-cancelled-aerial combo a while ago that I didn't exactly publish because it was way too escapable and unrealistic to land. I might have said it on AiB, but me and BT just omglol'd at it for a bit, then the spring excitement kinda ran out XD.

It was way too good to be true.

like if there was hitstun, it'd be the most overpowered situational kill combo Sonic has.

40-60% starter --> kill

I'll go see if I can find the remnants of it lol

 

[Jim Morrison]

If a footstool drops them onto the spring, then could you then dair onto the spring without hitting the opponent? If you could, then basically since they are bouncing off the sping and then you are too, then you could up air and be below them enough to hit with it to get the kill.

U-air is possible on some characters, not all. And you can't D-air onto the spring. I also wouldn't know how that would help.

 

[Jim Morrison]

The problem with that one is that it's too high to be useful unless you're trying to pick up bananas on landing or if your opponent is in midair/tall. If you do it just sliightly lower then you can get the lagless landing while still having the hitbox out.



@your question:
Yes/no?
If you mean grounded opponent, it's possible with a max-height D-air. If you mean on a footstooled opponent, then no. They'll rise during your startup lag.

haha....

I had this superexperimental spring-cancelled-aerial combo a while ago that I didn't exactly publish because it was way too escapable and unrealistic to land. I might have said it on AiB, but me and BT just omglol'd at it for a bit, then the spring excitement kinda ran out XD.

It was way too good to be true.

like if there was hitstun, it'd be the most overpowered situational kill combo Sonic has.

40-60% starter --> kill

Yes, post it then.

 

[Tenki]

It was too good to be true ;o

[Set up a grounded spring]
[opponent walks through spring]

[Jump+D-air on the spring, hitting opponent] > [Instant Footstool jump] (makes them bounce) > (you fastfall+bounce, or double jump) > [U-air (2nd hit)] > [Spring+Instant U-air (hits with both parts)]

VS a grounded opponent, the D-air knocks them upwards, but it's cancelled by the spring, so you can immediately footstool jump them and force them to bounce on the spring. Either by doing a SH footstool and fast-falling to bounce on the spring or, if you're accurate/cool enough, FH footstool+ double jump, try to hit the U-air so it hits them at the top of the bounce height. The U-air's second hit outprioritizes basically... everything when spaced correctly, and it sets up the height correctly for a spring>instant U-air if you land the U-air at 50-70%

lmao

good luck ever pulling it off in a real match though

 

[Camalange]

... :O

Has that ever been done before? Cuz I would **** in my pants if I were to see that.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I'm gonna do it on you whenever we play.

Cam is right. Owning Steak would have an absolute winner.

EDIT: Cam, I want in the sBR.

 

[Tenki]

... :O

Has that ever been done before? Cuz I would **** in my pants if I were to see that.

not on a human, lol.

@cama:
it's your choice.
;3

 

[Camalange]

Hm, well I just wanted an excuse to make an SNL reference.

I wish I was good at this "come up with cool scenarios that would totally be awesome" thing, but I'm just not >_> I understand what you guys say and how you do it, but I would never think WHAT IF YOU DID THIS INSTEAD? alkdfjakldf

@Gf2tw...is it time yet Tenki?

 

[Trillion]

Gf2tw, what i mean is, up air, spring, bounces you both up. You cant hit with the uair, but you said you CAN footstool and it drops them back onto the spring. The spring would bounce them back up, BUT if you DI-ed backwards after your footstool, then you could dair onto the spring, just like the infinite dair, but bounce back up too and be underneath your opponent for a uair. The question I had was could you do the dair onto the spring without hitting your opponent and if so would you still be able to get out the uair before they could get away or counter?

 

[ShadowLink84]

I was away an hour so I won't respond to Tenki since its already been done I think.
on another note I've been trying to examine the side B's little hop and I think it may be possible to get those invincibility frames like you do on YI.
Primarily due to the angle though I've had little success at the moment.

 

[Tenki]

Gf2tw, what i mean is, up air, spring, bounces you both up. You cant hit with the dair, but you said you CAN footstool and it drops them back onto the spring. The spring would bounce them back up, BUT if you DI-ed backwards after your footstool, then you could dair onto the spring, just like the infinite dair, but bounce back up too and be underneath your opponent for a uair. The question I had was could you do the dair onto the spring without hitting your opponent and if so would you still be able to get out the uair before they could get away or counter?

Yes and yes.

D-air's startup will definitely make it miss your opponent (not hit) and bouncing on the spring resets your movement (and double jumps, if you're not in airtrip state), so you can U-air as soon as you hit the spring.

Also, if your footstool drops them onto the spring...

you might even call that an alternative start to the impossible not-combo that I just mentioned.

That'd be amazing to see ;o

Or maybe not, because my not-combo requires that you land on the floor after you set up the spring, because you U-air from spring height and then spring+U-air again to star KO.

But if they footstool off of you and give you back your spring, then I guess that works too.

 

[Camalange]

SL, I suggest renaming this thread to something like, "Discuss cool Sonic tricks here" because TURMOIL isn't exactly welcoming, and it seems that we're past the drama.

 

[Chis]

What turmoil?
What drama?

Something cause by a single person?

 

[Camalange]

What turmoil?
What drama?

Something cause by a single person?

The title has the word turmoil in it, and Boxob called this the drama boards.

ON TOPIC: Yeah, so keep Uairing and doing spring set ups fellas.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I figured the title would gather more attention if I said turmoil rather than tension.

 

[Trillion]

Assuming its not too hard to do, I think, that the thing I just suggested might be awesome against people like Marth and Falco. Think about it. If you were able to come up from below them like that to get the up air, then they could only defend themselves with a dair (I guess Marth could use counter, but not many Marths actually use that when they panic.) so that means one of three things would happen:
1. The dair hits, you get spiked. You probably hit the spring below and then you fly right back up and get the uair.
2. They miss, the uair hits.
3. The dair hits, doesnt spike.

If situation 3 happens, then I'm not sure what you would have to do. It kinda depends on what way you get hit, but what I can say is that it would be upward and some direction. So based on this you may theoretically be able to ASC and THEN get the uair.

 

[aeghrur]

We're focusing back onto... positives again.
Cmon people, let's go over the weaknesses instead of the good things about sonic like a kill combo at 50-70% lol.

For example, sonic's lack of safe approaches, how do we counteract that?

 

[Tenki]

By running in and shielding? By feinting with fake charges and shielding?

By baiting grabs, spotdodging and punishing?

By moving without intent to immediately attack.