We really need to get rid of the turmoil thats been going on recently.

[Napilopez]

Hmm, Lack of safe approaches?

I still don't understand when people bring up that point. Almost all of Sonic's approaches are safe, because they are uncommited. And he's freaking quick. Does anyone truly have trouble approaching with Sonic?

 

[Camalange]

lol, Napi and Tenki said pretty much what I was going to say >_>

Approaching isn't much of a problem for Sonic, seeing as how he's mostly going to be baiting and punishing.

 

[Tenki]

Oh by the way, I'm probably going to make a section or paragraph or something about this in the Side-B/down-B thread, but...

Spindash is NOT a good direct approach!

If you try to use them when your opponent is in a neutral state, your opponent can do mean things to you out of shield. Most people haven't adapted their reflexes to this, but if you watched the Ally vs ShadoFiend (I just got Shadowned!) videos that I posted in Greenstreet's thread, you'd see how spindash>aerial can be punished.

That said, you should mainly use spindashes for lag. Startup, ending, landing, and online lag. But offline, don't overabuse it - you'll get destroyed by anyone familiar with the matchup.

Also:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=210143
change mains to Olimar, then post in the thread asking you to get added
;d

 

[Camalange]

Spindash is NOT a good direct approach!

If you try to use them when your opponent is in a neutral state, your opponent can do mean things to you out of shield. Most people haven't adapted their reflexes to this, but if you watched the Ally vs ShadoFiend (I just got Shadowned!) videos that I posted in Greenstreet's thread, you'd see how spindash>aerial can be punished.

That said, you should mainly use spindashes for lag. Startup, ending, landing, and online lag. But offline, don't overabuse it - you'll get destroyed by anyone familiar with the matchup.

Thank you <3

Also:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=210143
change mains to Olimar, then post in the thread asking you to get added
;d

lol, okay?

 

[aeghrur]

Lol, I asked that question for the sake of asking a question to focus on a common weakness people say of sonic.
Things people think are sonic's weaknesses:
Approach(right?) Meh, cuz this kind of ties in with priority.
Priority
Range
Kill power
Damage
Oh, and aerial maneuverability. I find this to be somewhat of a problem considering sonic's aerial acceleration is pretty low at times.
And, um, what did Overswarm say? All of Sonic's moves are telegraphed?

 

[SonicX580]

Hey guys I've been out for a while what did I miss?

Topic: what did you mean by telegraphed?

 

[memphischains]

he said many dumb things, as did most of the SBR

Hylian admitted to me that they are sonic ********, but don't still don't condone their actions

 

[Camalange]

Are the SBR even bothering now to TRY to understand Sonic? Or did they just admit to it and are going to continue their ways.

 

[aeghrur]

The latter is easier and takes less energy.
What do you think they're going to do? lol. xD

 

[ShadowLink84]

Hmm, Lack of safe approaches?

I still don't understand when people bring up that point. Almost all of Sonic's approaches are safe, because they are uncommited. And he's freaking quick. Does anyone truly have trouble approaching with Sonic?

Um no that isn't what just defines a safe approach. For example, MK and Fox are characters whose approaches in general can be considered committed however one isa safer than the other. One has range and speed allowing a larger margin of error.

wario has less range but he incredible speed and is safe.

Sonic on the other hand does not have the range in any of his moves besides Uair, bair and Ftilt and all of those are committed. He also lacks the mobility that Wario and Marth that they both use.

Sonic isn't really safe ebcause while he can cancel his approaches, those cancels require that the opponent makes a reaction that he can punish. If the opponent doesn't fall for it you don't gain any benefit.

It can be said he is safe since he can reset things to a nuetral position but that is not good because this game is defensive and that lack of strong offensive capability means he really has to rely on mindgame behavior,
Which he is suited for but is hard to factor into matchups in spite of him being geared for it.

 

[Camalange]

The latter is easier and takes less energy.
What do you think they're going to do? lol. xD

Well, as opposed to what they SHOULD do. But you're probably right :/
It's not like anything has really worked thus far.

 

[memphischains]

Are the SBR even bothering now to TRY to understand Sonic? Or did they just admit to it and are going to continue their ways.

idk, their elitist rule won't let them say anything
my guess is they are still idiots and not doing what they are supposed to back there.

i wouldn't doubt they're having virtual circle jerks instead of talking about competitive smash

 

[SonicX580]

idk, their elitist rule won't let them say anything
my guess is they are still idiots and not doing what they are supposed to back there.

i wouldn't doubt they're having virtual circle jerks instead of talking about competitive smash

So I'am guessing that those smash players won't care unless they hack Sonic to make him better, or until someone like malcom takes out a pro using sonic.

 

[Chis]

Not all of them are like that.

 

[SonicX580]

Not all of them are like that.

Yeah right name one pro that cares.

 

[Boxob.]

Yeah right name one pro that cares.

Memphis chains.

*jocks poll*

 

[Chis]

Yeah right name one pro that cares.

Emblem lord (sorry EL for the name drop...)

Nao wut?

 

[SonicX580]

Emblem Lord? doesn't he main Marth or Ike?

 

[Camalange]

Emblem Lord? doesn't he main Marth or Ike?

That doesn't mean he can't care.

It's Marth btw.

 

[memphischains]

anther cares.
lol boxob. idk why but when the sbr has a question it seems like i'm the only sonic main they ask, unless they talk to anther which i wouldn't doubt.

there are a lot who give sonic his credit. i give the wrong impression by saying the SBR sucks, because i pull those people into that give a **** into that judgment, but w/e.

they do suck though. OS, SP, m2k etc are ill informed on the topic. if i'm not an jerk about it no one listens so whatever. i think i got the point across that they should do something.

you guys should have helped me more btw. most of you left me hanging

 

[SonicX580]

anther cares.
lol boxob. idk why but when the sbr has a question it seems like i'm the only sonic main they ask, unless they talk to anther which i wouldn't doubt.

there are a lot who give sonic his credit. i give the wrong impression by saying the SBR sucks, because i pull those people into that give a **** into that judgment, but w/e.

they do suck though. OS, SP, m2k etc are ill informed on the topic. if i'm not an jerk about it no one listens so whatever. i think i got the point across that they should do something.

you guys should have helped me more btw. most of you left me hanging

That's probably because you flamed most sonic's maybe that's why.

 

[memphischains]

because maybe that why maybe mostly because they are scrubs that mostly kinda cluttered the boards and maybe almost just about have NO IDEA what they think they know what they might be talking about.

and you had nothing to do with it. those people know who i am talking to

 

[Camalange]

580, memphis flames the right people. He doesn't just scare away people who know what they're talking about. He eats fanboys who debate in the tier list thread because they think Sonic should be top tier.

@memphis, when did you talk to them last? Invite/inform one of us next time

 

[Napilopez]

Um no that isn't what just defines a safe approach. For example, MK and Fox are characters whose approaches in general can be considered committed however one isa safer than the other. One has range and speed allowing a larger margin of error.

Then it depends on you'r definition of safe. Perhaps I should have been clearer though. Being committed or not is not the only factor affecting safety. As you very well mentioned, MKs approaches are commited yet he has a great approach.

wario has less range but he incredible speed and is safe.

Sonic on the other hand does not have the range in any of his moves besides Uair, bair and Ftilt and all of those are committed. He also lacks the mobility that Wario and Marth that they both use.

Sonic isn't really safe ebcause while he can cancel his approaches, those cancels require that the opponent makes a reaction that he can punish. If the opponent doesn't fall for it you don't gain any benefit.

I'm not sure how much I agree with this. Its not about the opponent falling for it or not, its the fact that Sonic has the option to cancel his approaches if his opponent reacts to your movement, or if our opponent surprises you with a certain tactic or whatever. I'm not sure if I'm being clear enough. But the point is sonic does have some room for error, because he doesn't have to commit to an approach/can cancel his approaches. Even with that, you can't discount his speed. Your can cover ground so quickly that approaching shouldn't be a problem.

But thats the thing though, its not about whether or not it should be a problem for Sonic or not. The fact of the matter is that perhaps with some rare exceptions, it isnt for Sonics. Or so I think. Again I ask, do you ever really have trouble approaching with Sonic? Does any Sonic really have trouble approaching anyone? There may be a couple of exceptions - some might say falco, I would say olimar personally - but when I play with Sonic, or watch other Sonics play, approaching is negligible as an issue for Sonic, if it is an issue at all. Its not like, say, ganon trying to approach Falco or Samus.

It can be said he is safe since he can reset things to a nuetral position but that is not good because this game is defensive and that lack of strong offensive capability means he really has to rely on mindgame behavior,
Which he is suited for but is hard to factor into matchups in spite of him being geared for it.

With this I agree more. It may not be "good", but its not exactly "bad" either. I was never vouching that Sonic's approaches were good(if I did, then my apologies), just that he does not have trouble approaching.

My opinion is this: Most characters are divided into two groups when it comes to approaching, sometimes varying with matchups. Some characters have great approaches. Other cannot approach well. And then there are those that don't have to approach. Sonic is usually in the middle. The characters who have to approach, yet can approach well usually are good because their approaches are in some way overpowering, whether it be range, speed, or strength. Yet they are usually pretty commited. Sonic stands in the middle because he approach, but should he make a mistake, change his mind, or need to react to an opponent, he can cancel it and do something else. Thats where the strength of being uncommited lies. It just isn't overpowering like Marth's or MK's approach.

 

[memphischains]

uhm, publicly it was a while ago.
it was around when me and panda where going at it

 

[SonicX580]

because maybe that why maybe mostly because they are scrubs that mostly kinda cluttered the boards and maybe almost just about have NO IDEA what they think they know what they might be talking about.

and you had nothing to do with it. those people know who i am talking to

Well good to know I'am slowly getting respect.

580, memphis flames the right people. He doesn't just scare away people who know what they're talking about. He eats fanboys who debate in the tier list thread because they think Sonic should be top tier.

@memphis, when did you talk to them last? Invite/inform one of us next time

Yeah I noticed that when he first flamed me but no effect I didn't leave but the n00b questions were annoying.

 

[Boxob.]

Yeah let me know when you want me to help, Memphis. I'm definitely knowledgeable on Sonic so yeah.

 

[SonicX580]

Yeah let me know when you want me to help, Memphis. I'm definitely knowledgeable on Sonic so yeah.

Hey Boxob. if you need my help to let me know and I'll be there ASAP.

 

[ShadowLink84]

oh by no emans am I saying Sonic has issues approaching, he is one of the characters that can approach quickly without incurring alot of damage. Its just that his approaches often carry a good amount of risk also and things can easily turn and become unfavorable.

 

[Camalange]

Yeah let me know when you want me to help, Memphis. I'm definitely knowledgeable on Sonic so yeah.

I'm more knowledgeable than this scrub. Look, he just joined this month.

But yeah, I'd be more than happy to help too, and I would've before (I remember that discussion) but I was at school or something when it all happened. Fail...by the time I got home it was pretty much all over.

 

[Chis]

Count me in,

I fight for my friends!

 

[SonicX580]

I'm more knowledgeable than this scrub. Look, he just joined this month.

But yeah, I'd be more than happy to help too.

Umm guys try not to start a war the boards already took enough damage also let me know when I can help.

 

[Boxob.]

Yeah camalange, **** you.

 

[SonicX580]

Yeah camalange, **** you.

Guys knock it Off! before this thread is locked up.

 

[Camalange]

<3

So before everyone else coins in with their warm and fuzzy "I'll save Sonic too!" phrases, let's change topic.

Steak.

Discuss.

 

[Napilopez]

oh by no emans am I saying Sonic has issues approaching, he is one of the characters that can approach quickly without incurring alot of damage. Its just that his approaches often carry a good amount of risk also and things can easily turn and become unfavorable.

Oh...

Now I feel dumb for writing that wall of text, I coulda written a couple of paragraphs for my final paper due tommorow! XD.

Agreed!

 

[SonicX580]

<3

So before everyone else coins in with their warm and fuzzy "I'll save Sonic too!" phrases, let's change topic.

Steak.

Discuss.

That's kind of how the topic have been locked up aside from people spamming each other with flame posts.

 

[Chis]

Ike is better then Sonic.

Discuss//

 

[Trillion]

I hope you mean like tier-wise. Cuz Ike gets owned by sonic.

 

[SonicX580]

Ike is better then Sonic.

Discuss//

Umm okay how about that Sonic is faster than Ike? or how spindash helps on defeats Ike?
*waits for someone to tell him off...*