We really need to get rid of the turmoil thats been going on recently.

[Chis]

I 3-stocked a Sonic mainer in these boards with Ike.

And I'm having a greater success with him then with my Sonic.

Plus some argue Sonic: Ike is 50:50 (not me)

Discuss//

 

[ShadowLink84]

I 3-stocked a Sonic mainer in these boards with Ike.

And I'm having a greater success with him then with my Sonic.

Plus some argue Sonic: Ike is 50:50 (not me)

Discuss//

it is because your ability to read the opponent is more heavily rewarded. however, unlike Sonic, Ike has a terrible issue with dealing with pressure. Primarily because of the fact hat all he really has upclose is his jabbed and while it is good, doesn't solve the problem.

It is why i think Sonic has a 60:40 matchup against Ike. Sonic is capable of racking up damage quickly on Ike, can gimp is terribly predictable recovery and really is good at pressuring Ike.
Ike just has too many openings with his moves that Sonic can take advantage of.
Of course Ike has his range and power but the speed and pressuring issue as well as recovery can be problematic.

 

[Chis]

Ike can SHAD away, OoS Bair, OoS jump if under pressure. But you're kind of right.

The correct DI helps Ike with the gimping issue. If Sonic messes up he could loss a stock. Eruption, Dtilt, Dair work when on Sonic's recovery.

Sonic can easily punish Ike though, even from a retreating Fair...

 

[da K.I.D.]

uhm, publicly it was a while ago.
it was around when me and panda where going at it

when you deal with nubs in the sonic boards, i mess with you...

when you talked to the SBR, I ALWAYS had your back, remember that.

I hope you mean like tier-wise. Cuz Ike gets owned by sonic.

not really. play kirk.

sonic is like a bootleg Marth.

marth goes even with most people except for a few characters that he just *****.
sonic goes even with most people except for a few that **** him

 

[Boxob.]

not really. play kirk.

>_>

Captain falcon ***** Bowser.

'lolno play gimp-e-fysh'

Don't do that.

D:

 

[Chis]

Doesn't Marth have an advantage against most of the cast?

 

[da K.I.D.]

gimpy mains shiek now doesnt he...

with most of the cast he has the advantage but its not that bad.

 

[Boxob.]

I was referring to Melee, and last I heard, he still mained Bowser?

And yeah Marth is even/slight advantage on everyone besides like, Boxonic.

Which is Boxob's Sonic, which ***** marth.

 

[thecatinthehat]

I think Gimpy still mains Bowser.

Marth is gay.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Marth has two or three very small disadvantages which are MK and 2 others whom I cannot remember at the moment.

Ike can SHAD away, OoS Bair, OoS jump if under pressure. But you're kind of right.

Everyone can OOS jump XD.
As for OOS Bair that requires your opponent is behind you which is a compromising position anyway since he doesn't have a reliable Bair like DK.

The correct DI helps Ike with the gimping issue. If Sonic messes up he could loss a stock. Eruption, Dtilt, Dair work when on Sonic's recovery.

Why are you trying to gimp Ike directy? let alone that you will not lose a stock if you mash ^B. Its far from a Ganondorf spike.

Ike's edge guarding is easily avoided by Sonic's options.
Dair will not work unless you recovery in suhc a predictable manner that you could get grabbed anyway. you could also just ^B it as well you know.
Dtilt is the same issue, you really should not need to recover below the stage when confront Ike.

Sonic can easily punish Ike though, even from a retreating Fair...

I believe Sh nairs cannot be punished even when shielded.

 

[da K.I.D.]

D3, snake,
lolz, he is disadvantaged to the 3 best characters in the game.

my sonic does pretty well v. marth as well.

im pretty sure he mains shiek now.

 

[infomon]

Everyone can OOS jump XD.

Except for Yoshi.

I still don't know how you ppl deal with Marthas. Way too much range for Sonic, and good Marthas leave very very few openings. Retreating Fairs = can't shieldgrab, our gimpy arms don't reach far enough to pull it off, and they can easily Dtilt after, or other stuff, they outrange us for everything except Ftilt which I can never land since it's slower than Martha's Dtilt and prolly other stuff too. And afaict they can safely approach with retreating Fairs, which just means I just get caved into the side, a sad little hedgehog crawling away from the big mean sword-wielding..... girl.

man I suck, any help what to do?

 

[da K.I.D.]

how do you approach with retreating f-airs?

if he tries to SH double f-air, you can f-air him out of shield inbetween the f-airs,

and i believe KID AT #5 helps tons in this match up

 

[Jim Morrison]

Another annoying thing with Sonic is a relatively small shield. I want it bigger :O

 

[da K.I.D.]

dont be so defensive then...

 

[Jim Morrison]

True, it's better to run away than to shield with Sonic, but sometimes you just need to shield. Ah well, shield isn't that big of a deal.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Sonic's shield is actually quite average.
A character with a beastly shield is friggin DDD.

 

[BlueTerrorist]

How to fix Sonic:

*Sigh*

Boards:
- Stop Spamming
- Stop being defensive and angry towards others from other boards.
- Stop fighting among yourselves.
- Be true to yourself, Sonic DOES have weaknesses.
- If you want others to stop being ignorant of Sonic, go to tourneys (offline ones) and consistently take down top name players. (No it's not limited to just 3000, Malcolm, Me, Puffball or any other Sonic's i forgot to mention that won or at least went high in an offline. We need more Sonic people to take names and occupy the Top 10, that will definitely turn heads.)

As A Character:
- Stop abusing and approaching with Spin Dashes, that's why you get owned in a close up conflict.
- Start experimenting with OoS options, barely any of you do it.
- Make better use of Sonic's speed.
- Smarter use of his current AT's, trust me spinshot isn't just limited to recovery.
- More creativity with the spring.
- Stop thinking Homing attack is the holy grail of gimping, it's not.
- Start chasing properly
- Better use of his Fox trot (Well, it can be good at times. Mix it up my dude .)
- STOP WITH THE BATTLEFIELD/PLATFORM JOHNS!!! If you have problems handling any stage not named Brinstar/Norfair you're not ready as a Sonic yet (CP's and characters come to mind but still). Too many times I heard upcoming Sonic's or even other Sonic's tell me I lost cause my Sonic (Or Sonic in general) is not good at *insert stage here*. No, not acceptable. If you can't rock on other stages aside from FD/Smashville/Yoshi's Island as a Sonic, I guarantee you, you will never win against ANY competent player and you will have no one to blame but yourself.

Now this doesn't apply to everyone, but if this struck you somewhere inside, i can assure you, you have much improvement to do .

 

[Tenki]

As A Character:
- Stop abusing and approaching with Spin Dashes, that's why you get owned in a close up conflict.
- Start experimenting with OoS options, barely any of you do it.
- Make better use of Sonic's speed.
- Smarter use of his current AT's, trust me spinshot isn't just limited to recovery.
- More creativity with the spring.
- Stop thinking Homing attack is the holy grail of gimping, it's not.
- Start chasing properly
- Better use of his Fox trot (Well, it can be good at times. Mix it up my dude .)
- STOP WITH THE BATTLEFIELD/PLATFORM JOHNS!!! If you have problems handling any stage not named Brinstar/Norfair you're not ready as a Sonic yet (CP's and characters come to mind but still). Too many times I heard upcoming Sonic's or even other Sonic's tell me I lost cause my Sonic (Or Sonic in general) is not good at *insert stage here*. No, not acceptable. If you can't rock on other stages aside from FD/Smashville/Yoshi's Island as a Sonic, I guarantee you, you will never win against ANY competent player and you will have no one to blame but yourself.

Now this doesn't apply to everyone, but if this struck you somewhere inside, i can assure you, you have much improvement to do .

It's been a while...? lol

The Homing Attack thing especially o_O; I don't know the last time I ran across that one.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I think we got homing attack message trough quite well.

 

[SonicX580]

Well Blue Terroist good message about the boards and the combat stuff 50-50.

 

[Tenki]

Well Blue Terroist good message about the boards and the combat stuff 50-50.

lol almost like the pokemon trainer team-up


on a more serious note:

Shadowlink, can you change the title?

random metagame discussion or something, ahha

the current one has a nasty aftertaste ,'/

 

[Jim Morrison]

I get the feeling that when the title changes, the thread will not be as productive o.O. Tenki you main changer. Having trouble with Olimar?

 

[Tenki]

I think I explained the lolimar elsewhere ;o

secret.
this is a hint if you look around closely enough:
shhh

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I didn't even notice this thread. XD

Do we really fight amongst ourselves that much? I don't really have a problem with anyone here.........

I think something we should discuss at some point is Sonic's disadvantageous positions. During the ban MK podcast it was mentioned that Brawl is a game of options. This is true. Also that the key to beating most characters is to put them in a position that's horrible for them i.e. knock ROB up and **** him. This is also true. So I think we should discuss any positions that give Sonic trouble. A lot of us disagree about matchups because, due to the myriad of ways Sonic can be played, different positions give us different problems. I think options discussions are in order. i.e. Rd3s How to deal with specific enemy moves thread in the Peach boards.

 

[infomon]

Some problem situations for Sonic, IMO:

• Hanging on the ledge (enemy on stage, or enemy recovering)
• In the air without our 2nd jump (recovering, or above opponent on stage)
• In a grind
• Falling to land after a Spring

 

[Jim Morrison]

Some problem situations for Sonic, IMO:

• Hanging on the ledge (enemy on stage, or enemy recovering) Use my thread :D
• In the air without our 2nd jump (recovering, or above opponent on stage) Wait untill above his head, SPRING!
• In a grind Wuts a grind
• Falling to land after a Spring Auto-canceled D-air does wonders.

You were right though, they aren't good Sonic situations.

Anyway, I'm moving on to Falcon boards. It was fun learning Sonic. I hope I can still stay in (weird S)BR.

 

[infomon]

Grinding aka surfing: when Sonic's sliding on the ground, like if you do a foxtrot, Sonic gets his arms out, and comes to a slow stop, in which you can't really do anything. Attack input causes a dash-attack. You can't use a Jump or any Specials except for side-B, and you can't shield but you can roll-dodge. You can extend the length of time of the grind by tilting the control stick slightly after you've started grinding. I hope that makes sense :o

but yeah, I know the obvious options we have in those situations, the problem is that they're limited and/or predictable...... autocancelled Dairs still get punished pretty hard; when Sonic springs up, everyone knows to expect a Dair.

.... ?? Falcon!?!? have fun, yo... don't give up ur hedgehog!!

 

[Jim Morrison]

Yer, Falcon. Also, AC D-air works an awful lot for me. Infzy, I wanna play you again.

 

[da K.I.D.]

people need to experiment more with laggy down airs, cus nobody expects it.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Yea, laggy D-air is only bad when you miss. Have an obvious hit, DAIR!

 

[Kinzer]

You people can just freefall after you Spring if they expect you to Dair down.

It's a great mindgame, Sonic is not as limtied as you think he would be.

trufax.

 

[infomon]

It's still one of our most limited situations to be in. Good opponents know how to punish your landing, if they're anywhere nearby.

 

[Kinzer]

Why must you Sonic boarders make everything I say have some kind of flaw in it, can't we just say Sonic doesn't completely suck?!

 

[Browny]

you dare bring turmlamp-oil to my lair?

you must die!

this thread is lol. silly little difference of opinion on the tactical boards finds its way here, wtf

 

[TwinkleToes]

Why must you Sonic boarders make everything I say have some kind of flaw in it, can't we just say Sonic doesn't completely suck?!

lol. Reminds me of the Sonic boards a few months ago when we were all excited to be discovering new stuff only to realize most of the time, "oh, this makes Sonic worse..."

xD

 

[memphischains]

theres so much johning in this thread its gross

 

[Kinzer]

No Johns about Johns.

Also yeah Twinkles is right, we don't need stuff that tells us Sonic is worse, we need moar Steaktastic moose! (think it over before you post about it...)

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Why must you Sonic boarders make everything I say have some kind of flaw in it, can't we just say Sonic doesn't completely suck?!

Trial and error is how you learn. Deal with it.

 

[da K.I.D.]

You people can just freefall after you Spring if they expect you to Dair down.

It's a great mindgame, Sonic is not as limtied as you think he would be.

trufax.

or you cna freefall and than down air their landing camp, its more effective than it should be.

It's still one of our most limited situations to be in. Good opponents know how to punish your landing, if they're anywhere nearby.

and good sonics know how to avoid that punishment...

cwutididthar?

Why must you Sonic boarders make everything I say have some kind of flaw in it, can't we just say Sonic doesn't completely suck?!

welcome to my world young one...