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ways to avoid getting shined while chainthrowing?

EmuKiller

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EmuKiller?! More like... FREEmuKiller!!!!!!
while chainthrowing the space animals, (around the lower percents while you are still just grabbing and throwing, no up tilts or what nots) I'll get shined. Is this because I wait too long to grab? Or rather, what are ways to avoid this? What would be most helpful is if someone could post a link to a thread where this is already discussed, since I'm guessing this is a talked about topic.

If it makes anyone feel better, I DID at least try to search for this topic, I'm just a noob.
 

UMBC Super Smasher

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while chainthrowing the space animals, (around the lower percents while you are still just grabbing and throwing, no up tilts or what nots) I'll get shined. Is this because I wait too long to grab? Or rather, what are ways to avoid this? What would be most helpful is if someone could post a link to a thread where this is already discussed, since I'm guessing this is a talked about topic.

If it makes anyone feel better, I DID at least try to search for this topic, I'm just a noob.
I guess you failed to notice the question and answer thread that is stickied at the top of the page, then?

I believe the only way for fox or falco to shine marth is as Salaad mentioned - that marth missed the grab. It has happened to me on occasion when I thought I had the grab nailed though, so who knows. Also, percentage has something to do with this. If the space animal is over like 40% then it is time for utilt comboing rather than more grabbing.
 

Dark Sonic

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It happens when you miss the grab and if you grab too late. Most of the time it's because you miss the grab though. If they DI slightly up and back then it's sometimes hard to tell which direction you should grab in. I just pivot to space my grab correctly and out range a shine in the event that my grab is late, so if you're decent at pivoting (using either method) then I suggest you do that.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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actually i believe if they DI up they have the ability to shine before you grab. im not 100% on this, i just read it once and ive seen a falco (PC i think) do it on ken before.
 

thebluedeath1000

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I've been shined out of the grab at lower percents by foxes who were very skilled with jc shines..usually around 25% and I could have sworn I was grabbing properly..maybe I'm wrong but eh, some foxes can get the shine in.

In a few new videos I'm uploading soon, I'm fighting a fox that has learned how to di the chaingrab and shine out..so then you can see whats the best ways to deal with it..mostly ending your chaingrabs earlier than usual and unexpectedly.
 

thebluedeath1000

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I am going by things I have did against GOOD players, UMBC mentioned at this sort of thing abit considering he thought he was doing it correctly, yet encountered problems...I due believe they can jc shine out at lower percents by di-ing up then rapidly trying, normally I only get shined at high 20s or low 30s..when they do that, it can happen at mid 20s.

I don't need some noob who just joined to be telling me something entirely basic when they know nothing of whats going on more than whats already been said.
 

knightpraetor

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be nice blue...they just want to raise the post count..however, i didn't think you had to jump to shine out..is that required? or is it faster? or what
 

Dark Sonic

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^^It doesn't matter if you pivot your grabs. Lol

But that's an interesting point. Maybe we can have Scotu or Magus check it for us.
 

thebluedeath1000

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I can't help it, my hatred for noobs is too great when they act like that.

And perhaps I just suck but a few good foxes have done it consistently, but its really caused my chaingrab game to change against fox from "long and damaging" to "quick and effective"..doing the most I can while minimizing risk. So if It is just me sucking, it has helped my game quite abit.

I just uploaded two more videos of me fighting a decent fox, waiting for them to be approved.
 

FrostByte

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They *will* get out of the chaingrab if they know what they're doing by DI-ing slightly behind or inside Marth. You have 2 other options however, uptilt to dash attack. Not many people will react in time after the utilt and miss their tech. The other is a pivot (or something like it) full jump fair/uair since they usually jump after they shine.
 

Dark Sonic

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They *will* get out of the chaingrab if they know what they're doing by DI-ing slightly behind or inside Marth. You have 2 other options however, uptilt to dash attack. Not many people will react in time after the utilt and miss their tech. The other is a pivot (or something like it) full jump fair/uair since they usually jump after they shine.
Or you could do what I've been saying and pivot a grab to out range their shine. Serioussly it's not that hard especially if you use the flick method.

Most good foxes will get the tech if you up tilt because of how much time they have to react before hitting the ground. Now if you were to simply f-throw them instead of upthrowing them when they get to that percent then they'd be much more likely to miss the tech.
 

thebluedeath1000

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People need to learn to read

I'm not missing grabs, I'm getting shined before the grab, hes shining marth's shoulder area, mostly like my head, and its under 30%..he says he simply tries to jc shine rapid and it does that. as I said, maybe I'm slow..after all, I play a slow marth but I'm doing fine, I just wanted to throw out that bit of info, that you need to be going for quick and brutal over chainthrowing for longer periods.

I already stated I've modified my grab game to avoid being shined and I'm doing well.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jR1T6EGlFRw

while you're at it, go to my ganon topic! http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=117377
 

Emblem Lord

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Wait. Who is blue getting mad at? The guy that posted above him? I don't think that guy was talking to you blue. He was just posting his thoughts.

Stop jumping the gun and chill the **** out.
 

Dark Sonic

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Can you shffl a uair at that percent and get a regrab? If you tip the uair then stun shouldn't be a problem, but I want to know if they'll get hit too high or if there's not enough time for the uair itself.
 
D

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fox can shine out from 27%. if you do pivot grabs, he can't do this. You can pivot grab in the CG from 25% I think.
 

ComboTurtle

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People need to learn to read

I'm not missing grabs, I'm getting shined before the grab, hes shining marth's shoulder area, mostly like my head, and its under 30%..he says he simply tries to jc shine rapid and it does that. as I said, maybe I'm slow..after all, I play a slow marth but I'm doing fine, I just wanted to throw out that bit of info, that you need to be going for quick and brutal over chainthrowing for longer periods.

I already stated I've modified my grab game to avoid being shined and I'm doing well.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jR1T6EGlFRw

while you're at it, go to my ganon topic! http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=117377
Blue, i watched some of your videos on youtube. Your marth is pretty good, but u should be using your up and downsmashes alot more theyre marths best moves and instead of doing those air slashes just do forward smashes, if you practice these things i think youll be pretty good. I can upload a video of me playing if you want that will help you improve.
 

Emblem Lord

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U-smash and d-smash definitely aren't some of Marth's best moves. >_>
 

UMBC Super Smasher

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Blue, i watched some of your videos on youtube. Your marth is pretty good, but u should be using your up and downsmashes alot more theyre marths best moves and instead of doing those air slashes just do forward smashes, if you practice these things i think youll be pretty good. I can upload a video of me playing if you want that will help you improve.
I haven't seen Blue's marth, but judging from what you said, he must be pretty good. ;)
 

B-Will

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Blue, i watched some of your videos on youtube. Your marth is pretty good, but u should be using your up and downsmashes alot more theyre marths best moves and instead of doing those air slashes just do forward smashes, if you practice these things i think youll be pretty good. I can upload a video of me playing if you want that will help you improve.
yeah....no.

I didn't watch his vids either, yet, but regardless of how blue plays, your post, combo, was just....wrong.

Downsmashes are situational. I can think of a couple of reasons why I would use it but the number one reason why I use it once in a while is to tech chase an opponent to cover both the opponent teching in front of me and behind me. I use this at times when, for whatever reason, I have absoultely no idea where he is going to tech. I suppose once in a while I do use dsmash to hit underneath an opponents shield if I think it's going to connect.

Upsmashes are situational...at best. I can think of a couple of reasons why upsmash might be used but even then, I find something better.

Anyways, marth's best move is not the foward smash, IMO, marth's best moves are his grabs or the move you call "air slashes" (I assume you mean fairs) Fairs combo very well into all sorts of things, and has relatively little lag time compared to his forward smash. You start spamming forward smash and you'll find yourself getting punished via wavedash out of shield.

eh, that's the gist of it.

Blue, I'll watch your vids later.
 

thebluedeath1000

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Meh, only fighting some noobs is all thats online..renth said he'd come down and match me though to help me get some better videos.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jR1T6EGlFRw (Not that pathetic in this one but in the other, its rapesauce)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tkAzRlpSHeE

they aren't that bad of matches..but the fox is really outmatched, I get away with a few dumb mistakes and he makes bad choices..but eh....hes the best player within two hours drive though.
 

EmuKiller

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EmuKiller?! More like... FREEmuKiller!!!!!!
so back to getting shined out of a chainthrow, I actually started this thread because of it happening to me against a Falco but a lot of the talk has been about vs Fox. Any difference in terms of the percent at which the opponent can shine you?
 

B-Will

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i guess somebody got the joke... sorta and yeah jumping slashes = fairs haha, was just having a bit of fun :)
meh, it's too hard to detect sarcasm over the internet.

Anyways, there are so many noobs on this site that don't know anything about the game, so I figured you were just another one of those guys. There are many people on the site that would say something like, "upsmash is godly" or "jumping slashes."

oh well.
 

FrostByte

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It really depends on much time you have and what % Jiggs is at. You can also use either uncharged Fsmashes or Dsmashes to keep the Jiggs guessing where to DI.
 

thebluedeath1000

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I usually have all the time in the world.

And 99% of the time, the charged shield breaker is the best choice due to how much damage its going to give or how close they are to an edge..% really doesn't come into as too much of a factor due to how light jigglypuff is..doesn't take very much once they are at mid %.

Unless the jigglypuff is king at double stick di and whatnot, usually its over.
 

KevinM

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I think the thread has been answered, personally i only chaingrab till about 25-35 percent before i u-tilt..

u-tilt aerial is good from there or you can u-tilt u-tilt

On a side note, i was playing a falco once, got him on the right side of FD chain throw to 35 Reverse Up-B... So shexy
 
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