Wario's Match-Ups!

[Iota]

Even though u-smash a few frames too slow air dodge and jump don't get you out of the way quickly enough for you to avoid the hitbox. It's really silly. Completely forgot about f-tilt.

 

[DMG]

Usmash hits on Frame 25. I think if you airdodge, it misses. Cause it's what, 30ish frames for grabber and 50 for Wario, and airdodge finally goes invincible on frame 4 right? Sounds about right. Usmash shouldn't hit

 

[LOE1]

i suck vs ike lol. needz some advice!

but eh, its even to a small +1 i'd say

 

[Iota]

If it doesn't hit then I'm just bad I guess, Ike's u-smash comes out on frame 25 so you'd have to be near frame perfect to avoid it I'd think. Basically it's POSSIBLE to avoid it but it's a pain in the *** if you mistime AD by 1-2 frames cause you'd be eating a u-smash.

 

[ぱみゅ]

then.. jump away?

 

[Iota]

Jumping away doesn't work and I'm 100% positive of it. The hitbox reaches you before you're out of range.

 

[Kuro~]

Why hasn't reflex commented on this yet?

Considering he's played ryo and all...

 

[Iota]

I have no idea. Didn't Reflex lose in that set though?

 

[DMG]

Reflex went PT

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[Kuro~]

Errr there was much more play than the 2 matches at whobo rofl.

We all rode the megabus together and did like...

nothing but smash.

 

[Iota]

usmash doesn't hit wtf rofl

Instead of laughing you could actually give reasoning why it doesn't hit. I tested it thoroughly after reviewing frame data and I made these conclusions:

1. You CAN'T jump out of the range of u-smash out of GR

2. If you do it quick enough air dodge CAN come out before u-smash hits.

***

Also Kuro I didn't know that. I don't check who rides with who to tournies along with friendlies done. I just review brax.

 

[DMG]

Airdodge will come out before Usmash. AKA it won't hit. That's why he's rofling

 

[Iota]

I know the reasoning behind why he said it, he didn't have to be a **** about it though. It's rude and adds nothing relevant to the discussion.

Thoughts on how to deal with Ike fair?

 

[Croi]

"Deal" with Ike's fair? It's so slow and telegraphed he should be dealing with you not getting hit by it.

e: can you fair or dair Ike out of GR usmash?

 

[DMG]

He can probably Dair, but you can DI/SDI it towards the stage anyways. Onstage you can tech/punish. He should do Bair Utilt or Pivot Regrab imo

 

[Iota]

No, both moves are too slow and we wouldn't be able to reach him before u-smash came out anyway.

 

[DMG]

You could try to fart out of it actually, that's about it. Airdodging is safer either way cause then you could airdodge and punish the whiff with fart if you wanted to

 

[Kuro~]

Lol if all u think of ikes fair is it's telegraphed then u really haven't played a top ike. That move is amazing.

 

[Croi]

I live twenty minutes from Nysyarc. It's an "amazing" move for Ike, which is to say it's a mediocre move overall.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[xzx]

Also first thing I wanna say is lmao at the majority who claims that this is in Wario's favour when they don't actually know the Ike MU. If you don't actually know some aspects of the MU, you shouldn't be talking. Nothing personally against you guys, but seriously stop overrating what Wario has and underrating what Ike has. I know that it is easy to see why Wario has +1 against Ike, but in reality it isn't. This MU is +1 to Wario as long as the Ike doesn't know how to handle Wario. Yeah, I agree that Wario has many advantages over Ike >in certain situations<, but that doesn't mean Wario needs to have a general advantage over Ike. At first, like Masky said, Ike is better at killing Wario than vice versa. Almost every move Ike has have KO potential. Wario has limited ways of killing (the fart is a hit or miss, and takes time to build up and is hard to land. His f-smash is short and mustn't get staled for actually being a good KO move. Up-air gets staled a lot, since it is used for juggling/spacing, but when fresh it's a good kill move. F-tilt is a good kill move too, but it is too risky sometimes. And then Wario has other random kill moves at higher % like bair and dair...) Yeah, even HIS GRAB kills us if we aren't lucky enough to have a platform above our sorry heads or a nearby bouncing tire for that matter. The GR is very dangerous, and do everything you can to avoid it.

Second, Ike is super safe all the time, except for his ending lag, which is where we should strike. Nair and fair are just silly spacers, especially if Ike decides to move away from Wario while doing so. Ike's jab is faster than all of our ground moves (but it's not that Wario is a ground character anyway). Ike deals serious damage and can easily kill at around 120%, maybe earlier. Yeah, Ike's range is among the longest in the game, and is a pain for Wario. Avoid getting baited by him too.

And third, I laugh at everyone who thinks gimping Ike is an easy job. It isn't. His Aether lasts forever. If we have a bike or tires, then we have an advantage over Ike off stage. Pressuring Ike off stage though is the best we can do, or get a "lucky" foot stool. Yeah, if you really are willing the risk to gimp him, make sure to attack him before he uses his second jump/Aether. Retreat when he uses his Aether (unless you wanna snag the ledge before he grabs it. Even that is hard to do unless you are damaged 100%+).

Wario has the air, Ike has the ground. Wario can punish Ike hard if Ike does a mistake or if the Wario makes a hard read. Both are good at racking damage, and both can kill - just Ike having an easier time for doing so. I feel that the tires are really good in this MU for stage controlling. Since Wario has the ability to be "everywhere", it can get frustrating for Ike to deal with Wario, especially if Wario is camping. And please, just as Marth, never ever land near him. Find openings instead. You can't challenge his range. Ike is just like Marth, just slower and less dangaerous (and less annoying). I can't see why both should have an advantage over the other, so I put this as even, 0. Both are simply good at their own things, and both have advantages in certain situations, that's all. Wario has more options in this MU too. Just be patient and you'll do fine. (I know people will disagree with me now...)

EDIT: Ike's pivot grab is just too freaking crazy. Never approach an Ike if he is "spamming" pivot grabs, especially not under platforms, like BF's.


Croi: +1
G~P: +1
Teh Brettster: +1
Iota: +1
LOE1: 0/+1
xzx: 0

 

[LOE1]

i think its possible to bitecide ike during the animation of his up b if you are behind it. ive done it before, but also pretty darn risky. also, ima change my ratio to even. ike is just too much.

also, im pretty sure we ban FD vs ike. and reliable cp's?

 

[(S!C)]

for me it is -1 for wario :/

i really suck at this matchup

blubois and yoh are my fear ikes

 

[Labernash]

Yeah I always lost to Ike until I switched to Kirby. Now I'm the Ike slayer.

0 cause Wario is terrible because of grab release. Ike can hit you with utilt if you land on a BF platform out of GR.

 

[(S!C)]

i cant get through ike's retreating nairspam

 

[Iota]

Starting to think that xzx has trouble dealing with characters who have lots of range. I agree with a lot of your points Xzx but I feel that you're exaggerating Ike's tools a tad. That's just my opinion though. I'd rather just have my ratio taken off than subscribe to either +1 or 0. I have next to no high/top level experience in this match up to really tell which it is.

 

[Dynomite]

for me it is -1 for wario :/

i really suck at this matchup

blubois and yoh are my fear ikes

Emotion makes me want to agree, but logic tells me even.

My vote: +0

(hate me) walls better than marth.

 

[DMG]

?!?!??

No he does not wall better than Marth lol.

You all need to approach from the ground more probably. Shielding is really good, arguably as important or a bit more than airdodge for this MU. Shield grab Jab 1. DO IT!

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[DMG]

It works vs Ike though. Stops any janky approaches or mixups, lets you shield grab Jab 1,

 

[LOE1]

you know ike has a grab people...and i dont recall us being able to shield grabs

 

[(S!C)]

getting grabbed by ike at around 85% is a stock lose :/

 

[Dynomite]

getting grabbed by ike at around 85% is a stock lose :/

wut? no..

bair wont kill at that % and neither will uptilt.. I guess if u DI expecting a bair and get the utilt instead, but u should see the jump.

 

[Croi]

getting grabbed by ike at around 85% is a stock lose :/

And GR to Donkey Kong's punch kills at 50% too, right? Where do people get these percentages?

Ike's most-likely kill option out of GR is ftilt tilted up, and even then not until roughly 100% with crap DI.

 

[LOE1]

how do you not get grabbed by ike though :|
cant really approach withoutt risking getting grabbed

 

[(S!C)]

where do i have to DI when ike up tilts me out of a GR ?

 

[DMG]

If he does Utilt, DI away. If he does Ftilt, go upwards/towards the stage. If he does Bair, same DI path.

 

[(S!C)]

so i am already doing it right :/

 

[Blubolouis]

Just posting to say that Ike hates being camped, and wario's isn't one you can beat with some dash>perfect shield. I find it really effective.

Tires are a HUGE pain too, Ike can't make them disappear with aerials, so it means he'll have to
A) shield them, which sucks depending on positioning
B) throw them offstage/use them; ike's throw animations are pretty slow and it makes all his good options in this match-up unusable, so it's not a good idea to use them.

So by combining both points, safely getting the bike by air camping and then apply pressure with tires seems pretty effective.

(Ike can short-hop dair out of GR)

I think it's +1 wario.
just my 2 cents :I