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Wario's Match-Ups!
- Thread starter xzx
- Start date
Tires.
Playing Wario without tires, is like playing Diddy without Nanas.
This MU is +1, Wario. Ike's lasting hitboxes normally survive through our conditions air dodges. However tires expose openings that will allow you to get in and punish effectively.
Playing Wario without tires, is like playing Diddy without Nanas.
This MU is +1, Wario. Ike's lasting hitboxes normally survive through our conditions air dodges. However tires expose openings that will allow you to get in and punish effectively.
Labernash
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2010
- Messages
- 1,674
I find hitting him high while crossing him up with line fair and nair is pretty effective way to deal damage without getting grabbed. Just space better. Don't try too hard for follow ups if you're getting grabbed so much. Doing 6% damage at a time can win you a match.
Then waft.
Then waft.
Blubolouis
Smash Lord
@ Sic
lol I'm sorry but I can't really say anymore than what the guys above just said. Tires>Ike in the air, unless he catches them, and since his aerials have quite the start-up time (at least nair which he'll use a lot in this mu) he will have trouble doing so. Poking with your fair/nair/dair depending on spacing; since Ike's nair does have some landing lag, if you manage to figure out how to zone him you'll get pokes once in a while.
Also, a lot of the time Ike has to retreat his nair/aerials so he'll have less and less room to work with until he manages to regain stage control.
lol I'm sorry but I can't really say anymore than what the guys above just said. Tires>Ike in the air, unless he catches them, and since his aerials have quite the start-up time (at least nair which he'll use a lot in this mu) he will have trouble doing so. Poking with your fair/nair/dair depending on spacing; since Ike's nair does have some landing lag, if you manage to figure out how to zone him you'll get pokes once in a while.
Also, a lot of the time Ike has to retreat his nair/aerials so he'll have less and less room to work with until he manages to regain stage control.
Croi: +1
G~P: +1
Teh Brettster: +1
(Iota: +1)
LOE1: 0
xzx: 0
(S!C): -1
Labernash: 0
Dynomite: 0
Blubolouis: +1
Sky´: +1
@Iota: No, I don't have trouble with the Ike MU. I don't state things from my point of view, I see it from Wario's point of view (well, kinda... maybe). Please don't say I have trouble with long ranged characters just because Wario has. Wario has problem with (disjointed) range, and every Wario should know that. One shouldn't disregard that. Personally I have "much" experience against the likes of Marth and Ike. This is just a discussion about the MU, and everyone is welcome to state things. Because I want everyone to share their experiences and help each other with the MU. That's all! =)
Discussion is going on and will not end now.
G~P: +1
Teh Brettster: +1
(Iota: +1)
LOE1: 0
xzx: 0
(S!C): -1
Labernash: 0
Dynomite: 0
Blubolouis: +1
Sky´: +1
@Iota: No, I don't have trouble with the Ike MU. I don't state things from my point of view, I see it from Wario's point of view (well, kinda... maybe). Please don't say I have trouble with long ranged characters just because Wario has. Wario has problem with (disjointed) range, and every Wario should know that. One shouldn't disregard that. Personally I have "much" experience against the likes of Marth and Ike. This is just a discussion about the MU, and everyone is welcome to state things. Because I want everyone to share their experiences and help each other with the MU. That's all! =)
Discussion is going on and will not end now.
waldorf2007
Smash Ace
Iota
Smash Lord
O_________________o.....wth? 
Okay, let's move on to Sheik. I have set the Ike MU as +1.
About Sheik: She is really quick and stupid in some areas, and is quite the damage racker. She may be weak, but her grab-release on Wario is painful in either killing (kills around 100%) or damage racking (deals 30%). If you know you are going to die from her grab-release, SDI downwards (that way you will take 30% of damage but receive a weaker hit). If you aren't going to die, SDI upwards (that way you will receive more knockback but less damage, around 16-17% I think). Conclusion from this: At killing %, SDI downwards to take less knockback but more damage. At non-killing %, SDI upwards to take more knockback, but less damage. It's really dependant on the situation, but I always have in mind that when I'm at around 100%, I will survive a grab-release to upsmash by SDI downwards. I take serious damage though, but it's worth it since I will survive that way anyway. Sheik's grab is really good, not to speak of her pivot grab... Seriously, avoid it at all costs.
If Sheik f-tilts you, you can throw out your bike. The bike's hurtbox comes out on frame 1, but the hitbox activates on frame 8 (IIRC). This means she will pick up the bike and you can punish her with waft/f-smash, or something else (if Sheik isn't prepared for this). Her needles can be blocked with the bike, and tires and bite is good mixup tools. Wario can juggle Sheik, but she has a stall-then-fall and can reach the ground generally quick.
Sheik can kill Wario, and vice versa. Sheik is really fast too in both frame data and speed. Sheik has range but it's not a sword, even if she has good priority in her moves. I would say this MU is even, 0.
xzx: 0
About Sheik: She is really quick and stupid in some areas, and is quite the damage racker. She may be weak, but her grab-release on Wario is painful in either killing (kills around 100%) or damage racking (deals 30%). If you know you are going to die from her grab-release, SDI downwards (that way you will take 30% of damage but receive a weaker hit). If you aren't going to die, SDI upwards (that way you will receive more knockback but less damage, around 16-17% I think). Conclusion from this: At killing %, SDI downwards to take less knockback but more damage. At non-killing %, SDI upwards to take more knockback, but less damage. It's really dependant on the situation, but I always have in mind that when I'm at around 100%, I will survive a grab-release to upsmash by SDI downwards. I take serious damage though, but it's worth it since I will survive that way anyway. Sheik's grab is really good, not to speak of her pivot grab... Seriously, avoid it at all costs.
If Sheik f-tilts you, you can throw out your bike. The bike's hurtbox comes out on frame 1, but the hitbox activates on frame 8 (IIRC). This means she will pick up the bike and you can punish her with waft/f-smash, or something else (if Sheik isn't prepared for this). Her needles can be blocked with the bike, and tires and bite is good mixup tools. Wario can juggle Sheik, but she has a stall-then-fall and can reach the ground generally quick.
Sheik can kill Wario, and vice versa. Sheik is really fast too in both frame data and speed. Sheik has range but it's not a sword, even if she has good priority in her moves. I would say this MU is even, 0.
xzx: 0
First (killing) hit deals 12%, second (not-as-good-a-KO-move) hit deals 18%. It's how we survive grab-release -> U-Smash.
As far as knockback goes, yes.
Sorta. Let's say you normally would fly 100 units. The other hitbox usually send you 55. With this, you may go 65-70 units or something like that.
I don't think it works like Melee, where you could cancel the knockback of incredibly powerful moves like rest by simply jabbing them/hitting them with a weak hit quick enough after the move hit.
I don't think it works like Melee, where you could cancel the knockback of incredibly powerful moves like rest by simply jabbing them/hitting them with a weak hit quick enough after the move hit.
ぱみゅ
❤ ~
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Wind hitboxes, tho.
You have that backward, first hit is 17% and side hit is 13%.
I was a fool. Thanks for the clarification.
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
Lmaooo at the last line.
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
Sheik does extremely well on stage against Wario. Bair, Nair and Utilt can stuff Wario pretty well on his approaches when placed right. BF is no longer safe, if we grab you under a platform, you're still dead.
The best thing to do is to harass the **** out of her off stage. This is where Wario can win. Especially if the fart is ready. You can get some easy kills this way.
Reflex and I have played this MU quite a bit when I see him and its typically back and forth. I think it's even. Reflex, can we play this weekend for MU sake?
The best thing to do is to harass the **** out of her off stage. This is where Wario can win. Especially if the fart is ready. You can get some easy kills this way.
Reflex and I have played this MU quite a bit when I see him and its typically back and forth. I think it's even. Reflex, can we play this weekend for MU sake?
Lord Chair
Smash Master
need to full hop stuff
Indeed. Let's make it happen.
I made this post a few days ago elsewhere--
Relatively even matchup, IMO. 0 is fine. Might be a little better if we maximize camping potential, but, Sheik is pretty good at dealing with that. Hmm...
Sensei Seibrik
Smash Hero
i remember i was playing a sheik at whobo in the hotel in a mm, and it came down to last match (wario btw lol)
anyway, he had like 60% and i was at freakin 150 both last stock, it was smashville
so with 5 minutes left i just decided to start platform and edgecamping for farts. he couldn't really deal with it, and i managed to gain about 3 farts. one wiffed and two connected winning me the set lol
moral of the story, i think camping is **** vs sheik
anyway, he had like 60% and i was at freakin 150 both last stock, it was smashville
so with 5 minutes left i just decided to start platform and edgecamping for farts. he couldn't really deal with it, and i managed to gain about 3 farts. one wiffed and two connected winning me the set lol
moral of the story, i think camping is **** vs sheik
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
David....when was this? Were we in TX at that point?
Camping is all right against Sheik since she doesn't have great range and typically will have to charge in and make reads, but we have needles to help hit landings and force Action from Wario. Our speed helps us incredibly in tracking down Wario.
Camping is all right against Sheik since she doesn't have great range and typically will have to charge in and make reads, but we have needles to help hit landings and force Action from Wario. Our speed helps us incredibly in tracking down Wario.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
besides needles, camping on any stage that is not BF will at some point result in us getting frame trapped by broken stuff unless we opt to go for the ledge
ledge isnt strictly a scary place to be against sheik but its far from optimal and at any case not without risk
ledge isnt strictly a scary place to be against sheik but its far from optimal and at any case not without risk
I'm pretty confident about that number. When you're getting hit in the first place, SDI down and toward the side with more space before death, then go at a roughly 45-degree angle. It's a little technical, but I've definitely done it more than a few times, so, eh.
I think it's worth noting that this is likely impossible if you get usmashed from under a Battlefield platform.
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
Lol, didn't even think of that.
It is pretty much impossible in that case, yeah.
Sensei Seibrik
Smash Hero
the match was in the hotel room with the texans we hung with the night after whobo finished.
Wouldn't you in that case be able to SDI+tech it?
You can do that... at lower %'s. It also might depend on whether Sheik tippers Wario during landing lag or not. If you are going through landing lag, I don't think you can SDI downwards. If you are still airborne, you can but teching it would prove difficult or maybe not possible.