Wario's Match-Ups!

[Croi]

+2 with chaingrab, +1 without it.

 

[LOE1]

hell, i say its even without the cg, but +2 with it.

 

[(S!C)]

between 0 - 30 % against dk:

get a bite -> grab (true combo) -> go for the chaingrab


next stock -> repeat




so can we talk about ike now?
he is almost that terrible as d3 for me :/

 

[DMG]

Bassem and I have stuff vs Mr Doom, but that was years ago. I think it's roughly 55:45 Wario favor. Ike can beat a lot of our offensive options, but there are holes to punish and doing that puts Ike in a worse spot relative to what happens when Wario gets hit by Ike. Shield grab Jab 1 is a huge HUGE thing in this MU. In fact I'd say grabbing overall is probably one of your most important options for that MU because it's your only really safe up close option vs Ike, that you can also use OOS. In fact a lot of your punishes WILL have to be grabs framewise because you will not have enough time to OOS aerial.

 

[Ruinn]

dk loses to wario bad cause grab = gg
but if a dk grabs wario above 70% gg that stock

 

[Attila the Hun]

dk loses to wario bad cause grab = gg
but if a dk grabs wario above 70% gg that stock

Must be some pretty bad DI on those Warios, lol.

I'd say -2, but only because -3 sounds really dramatic to say. Wario has a lot of options for poking at our horrendous shield, a far superior grab range, the CG obvs, the guaranteed combos into grab (which are mean, btw > ), very good kill potential (offstage wafts actually work a good amount of the time, because of our predictable recovery), and a great uair to cover our upB break returns to the stage.

Sure we have grab release options for days, and do get guaranteed kills off on Wario a lot easier than other chars do, he's really hard to grab cuz our grab range sucks, and if we try to pivot grab he can just nair OoS or use his great spotdodge.

Bair is our main line of defense, and that has to be perfectly spaced or falling off the stage in order to not get shieldgrabbed, pree sure, so that's pretty annoying.

Hi Croi. I'm not doing this 'cuz I'm mad at you, so don't worry. xD

 

[DMG]

No that's pretty accurate, depending on stage or where you are located. DK Punch is strong lol.

 

[Attila the Hun]

Are you referring to dying anytime above 70%?

I can't even kill a Marth at 70% with punch, I'm pretty sure I main this character too, lol.

If you're talking about the mu description being accurate, then thanks. Pretty sure you guys can shield grab Punch though, haha.

 

[DMG]

I meant for DK punch. If you are in the center of say FD, no that won't kill at 70% lol. Smaller stages or closer to edges, sure 70-80ish. DK kills Wario pretty early, it's comparable to Marth Fsmash tipper out of grab release. 80% may be closer to reality but around there lol. Your MU assessment is pretty accurate, although DK tilts are also a good spacing tool vs Wario. It just will suck really bad if he closes the gap too quick, shields the Ftilt, then grabs your hand. If Wario couldn't grab your limbs during stuff it would be a bit harder.

 

[Attila the Hun]

I meant for DK punch. If you are in the center of say FD, no that won't kill at 70% lol. Smaller stages or closer to edges, sure 70-80ish. DK kills Wario pretty early, it's comparable to Marth Fsmash tipper out of grab release. 80% may be closer to reality but around there lol. Your MU assessment is pretty accurate, although DK tilts are also a good spacing tool vs Wario. It just will suck really bad if he closes the gap too quick, shields the Ftilt, then grabs your hand. If Wario couldn't grab your limbs during stuff it would be a bit harder.

I kinda look at it as he can just shield all day, cuz of what you said (grabbing limbs). He can't shield grab downB, but what Wario is going to get hit consistently by downB? xD

Shielding makes DK want to grab, which Wario beats him in, so yeah. When tilts are working though, that's a good time, lol.

Get Will in here, haha.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I take this topic to ask, is it true that a non-fully charged Punch (iirc, 7-wind when 8 is the max) kills earlier than a full charged one?

 

[Iota]

10 wind is the max charge iirc. 9 wind can kill around 30-50% depending which part of the hitbox you get hit by. 7, 8, and 9 wind are all stronger than 10 wind

 

[Iota]

oops double post. X.x

 

[Attila the Hun]

I take this topic to ask, is it true that a non-fully charged Punch (iirc, 7-wind when 8 is the max) kills earlier than a full charged one?

Iirc, 6-9 winds (9 being the strongest possible) are all stronger than a fully charged punch.

You guys get away with murder though, as GR->9-wind will only work if the Wario player dies during the gr. xD I'm pretty sure it's like when Wario drops on a platform, where he auto powershields. Even if I am wrong about the shield, he can definitely dodge it. GR 9-wind would kill at just above 70%

Ninja'd. :x

Also 30-50%, are you kidding me!? I thoroughly doubt it. What stages are you thinking of, Iota?

 

[DMG]

Yeah. 9 wind is ridiculously powerful, it's probably about as strong as one of the stronger/est Wario Waft's possible (think just a few seconds before you get the full waft). I'm not sure honestly why they are stronger than the full DK punch, I was pretty sure the full DK punch also did more damage?

 

[Tesh]

9 wind is so stupid, it doesn't even sound like it would hit that hard but its just freaking insane. 30-50% sounds like how early it kills folks like olimar/mk , but wario would still be dying off of like 3-5 reads if a 9 wind is involved.

 

[Attila the Hun]

Yeah. 9 wind is ridiculously powerful, it's probably about as strong as one of the stronger/est Wario Waft's possible (think just a few seconds before you get the full waft). I'm not sure honestly why they are stronger than the full DK punch, I was pretty sure the full DK punch also did more damage?

Yup, fully charged does like, 28 or 30, I think. I'm not the most knowledgeable DK, but yeah, it's not gonna kill Wario from 30-50%, and it's not easy to hit without SA frames.

I haven't tried hitting a 9-wind on MK/Olimar at that percent, cuz the MU's aren't the best, and fully charged punch goes through nado, sooo.

Also Tesh, 3-5 reads is all DK needs on every character, lol. 9-wind or no. That's just the icing on the cake, haha.

Hopefully other DK's get in on this, I'm lonely.

 

[Croi]

Wario isn't dying to anything until at least 90%, no matter what. Assuming it's centre stage FD and the Wario can DI worth his salt. DK hits hard, but not nearly that hard.

In the air, you want to be either directly in front of or directly below DK. He's not fond of his fair and his dair isn't really worth the risk unless he's being pushed/he has a huge lead/has balls of steel, Attila. His bair is, well, his bair, and his uair is basically ours but with his face.

Ban YI, counterpick SV, Frigate. FD can go either way, it favours both of us this time. Maybe Rainbow Cruise depending on your preference. I wouldn't really suggest Brinstar - DK doesn't really have an issue GR there and he likes to extend his hitbox on the things. The floor is uneven so it's difficult to CG there. The ceiling is pretty low, too, so GR>usmash will kill at maybe 80% or so.

Tires are alright, I guess, but don't let DK grab the bike. He can do things with it.

 

[Attila the Hun]

Do you guys normally have Brinstar legal? "You guys" being the Warios minus Croi, cuz he mah dawg.

 

[DMG]

GR Usmash with no DI already sends us into the top bubble at 70%, on FD.

 

[Croi]

Then have DI?

 

[DMG]

Even with DI, the reasonable killing threshold for DK is probably closer to 80 than 90. If you are talking about very good SDI + good DI, every single time, possibly.

 

[Attila the Hun]

With no DI. You guys are saying stuff about dying at 70% with DI, haha. At least Ruinn was. Maybe I'll do some testing while practicing with the guys, soon.

 

[Tesh]

No excuse not to have good DI out of a grab release, you know whats coming. Might even be able to tech that stuff too.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Balls of steel, Attila.

 

[DMG]

Only thing you would be able to tech is likely Usmash at lower %. Even then IDK how many SDI inputs you would need to get to the ground before that though

 

[Attila the Hun]

I do the stupidest and ballsiest stuff, and that's me trying, too. xD

Croi's testing right now, so we'll see stuff.

 

[Croi]

Boom, ******es.

In Training mode so there's no stale moves. Set to Control to ensure there is absolutely zero DI.

usmash = 90%
fsmash = 90%
dsmash = 100%
9-wind = 80%

 

[Ruinn]

dk's fsmash, fully charged punch, and usmash not stale can all kill at like 75-80% im serious lol.

 

[Iota]

What part of the stage?

U-smash and f-smash can only kill that low if near the ledge or on an elavated area ruinn.

 

[Tesh]

When I did 9 wind at 70% it killed wario from across FD. I didn't set it to control and I do have stale moves in training mode.

Most important thing to take from this is just that 9 wind kills earlier than everything else that could happen from a GR.

 

[Attila the Hun]

In training mode, moves are ALWAYS fresh.

Yeah, 9-wind is deff our strongest move, but you guys are overrating it a tad, lol.

 

[Croi]

In training mode, moves are ALWAYS fresh.

There are codes to turn that off and makes moves stale. Good for, you know, actually training.

 

[Tesh]

This might just be some old debunked myth but arent truly fresh moves in vs mode 105% the power of "fresh" training moves? That might be why my 9 wind killed earlier.

I use that hack croi is talking about. Its alot better for practicing combos or seeing how low percent stuff works on 2nd and 3rd stocks.

 

[Iota]

I'd like to know one of those codes.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

This might just be some old debunked myth but arent truly fresh moves in vs mode 105% the power of "fresh" training moves? That might be why my 9 wind killed earlier.

That's not a debunked myth; that's a legitimate thing.

 

[Croi]

SIGH.

10sighs

 

[Attila the Hun]

So anyway, -2 imo. I'd like to say -3, but I'm also not the most careful player.

 

[Croi]

Basically, just don't get grabbed.

80% to everything, 90% to dsmash.

 

[DMG]

Basically, just don't get grabbed.

80% to everything, 90% to dsmash.

Yeah sounds about right. Like I said earlier, Usmash at 70% no DI already put us into the bubble. I doubted we could get near 90% on that move lol. Everything else depends on stage/positioning but yeah 80ish rough estimate.