Wario Q&A Thread

[bassem6]

Hahaha ok I will :D

 

[toobusytocare]

going back to the momentum canceling, warios best option is actually airdodge.

When you are sent flying, you can air dodge 14 frames after getting hit or arial attack 26 frames after getting hit.

so to determine your best option for monentum reduction you have to compare each characters airdodge to their fastest aerial.

in warios case his airdodge ends on frame 39 and his fair/dair end on 37

so...
airdodge: 14+39=53 frames before you can jump/fastfall
Fair/dair: 26+37=63 frames before you can jump/fastfall

unless you're being sent off the top, in which case you want to fast fall your fastest aerial (since you cant fast fall while airdodging)

 

[Lord Chair]

I'm pretty sure you can't airdodge sooner than you can do an aerial. Your pro tip on surviving vertically is also untrue, you can fastfall any aerial since fastfalling always occurs on frame 1.

 

[toobusytocare]

No you can, im not pulling these numbers out of my *** lol.
many characters' best option for momentum reduction is airdodge because the cast is split into 2 groups, 39 frame airdodges and 48/49 frame airdodges.
here's the list of 39 frame airdodges: diddy, wario, ZSS, pit, robot, metaknight, dedede, olimar, squirtle,
ivysaur, charizard, lucario, ike, snake

all of these chararacter, except MK and lucario (lucarios fair is just as good as airdodge), use airdodge in momentum reduction.


i also say fast fall your fastest aerial because if they're following you up or w.e you don't wann abe stuck in a long *** aerial, unable to defend yourself lol.
but yeah you can FF any aerial

EDIT: my bad, squirtle uses uair.

 

[PhantomX]

I hope you realize that neither moves or airdodges themselves reduce your momentum, what does it is the jump you use after.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I'm pretty sure if you air dodge you momentum carries you further. The fastest aerial allows you to jump sooner than you would any other move and that's what's important. I remember seeing a vid on it a long time ago but I don't think I can find it now. I'll try to though.

 

[Darky-Sama]

So would forward air -> jump be better for momentum canceling with Wario, or what? rofl

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

So would forward air -> jump be better for momentum canceling with Wario, or what? rofl

Fair or Dair. You're supposed to fast fall your fastest aerial then DJ. Dair auto fast falls.

 

[PhantomX]

FF fair or ff dair > jump. They're equivalent. Most people just use dair b/c if you c stick down it auto fast falls.

 

[toobusytocare]

PX, Jumping does not reduce momentum, Fast falling does

and airdodging allows you to jump and FF sooner.

Warios best option is ****ing airdodge>jump>FF.

i dont see how you can still think its fair or Dair when i did the math for you right in that post.

Fair or Dair. You're supposed to fast fall your fastest aerial then DJ. Dair auto fast falls.

no, you use you're fastest option (airdodge or aerial), THEN jump and FF. The only time you fast fall an aerial is when you're above one of the top corners, aka you're being sent more vertical.
The reason you dont FF you're first aerial is because it pushes you down and makes it so you're no longer headed towards the corner. go test it, make a custom stage thats huge and send a diddy flying then use the diddy's dair/bair.
dair pushes him down and messes up the DI.

its hard to explain but yeah

just read this
http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=4377

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[toobusytocare]

Jumping DOES reduce your momentum. It counteracts your horizontal momentum when you jump towards the stage

Also, if you were going to die off the side anyway and you fastfall, you will still die off the side. Fastfalling has absolutely no effect whatsoever on your horizontal momentum.

this is true and what i was trying to say but im bad at wording things
except i didnt know about jumping towards the stage

either way, you want to airdodge because it allows you to jump sooner

 

[Vista]

You jump before the FF to compensate for the FF. Airdodge allows you to double jump the earliest, earlier than any other given aerial. Using an aerial to FF asap just sends you more downwards and messes with DI.

tl;dr listen to tb2c

 

[ssbbFICTION]

if you need to compensate for the FF you are doing it wrong.

 

[PhantomX]

HOLY ****, IT'S FICTION GUYS!

He posted, wtf.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

PX, Jumping does not reduce momentum, Fast falling does

and airdodging allows you to jump and FF sooner.

Warios best option is ****ing airdodge>jump>FF.

i dont see how you can still think its fair or Dair when i did the math for you right in that post.



no, you use you're fastest option (airdodge or aerial), THEN jump and FF. The only time you fast fall an aerial is when you're above one of the top corners, aka you're being sent more vertical.
The reason you dont FF you're first aerial is because it pushes you down and makes it so you're no longer headed towards the corner. go test it, make a custom stage thats huge and send a diddy flying then use the diddy's dair/bair.
dair pushes him down and messes up the DI.

its hard to explain but yeah

just read this
http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=4377

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCX3nIR5uDk&feature=channel_page

Escaping Aerial Hitstun
Different actions break out of hitsun at different times. The order for these is First the Air dodge, then an aerial, then a special, then a double jump.

Ideally, the fastest way to regain control out of aerial hitsun is usually to do your characters least duration attack. Regardless that the air dodge will break out first, a fast aerial will almost always end before an air dodge would.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4158733

Quote and video are from this thread.

 

[DMG]

In Wario's case however, his airdodge ends sooner.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

In Wario's case however, his airdodge ends sooner.

Na I just looked at the frame data they all end on frame 39.

 

[DMG]

I meant his airdodge ends sooner than when his aerial would end.

MK for example even though his Airdoge can start faster, Uair is a better momentum canceling option because it ends sooner than his airdodge. Wario however, his aerials take a long time to end, so Airdodging is his best choice (Horizontal only).

Momentum Canceling basically you do whatever will allow you the best curve in DI. Going Vertical, assuming you DI'd some to the left or right, fast falling an aerial will curve you more towards the corner. However, let's say that you are sent vertical, but you end up going towards the bottom part of the corner, where you are more likely to hit the horizontal boundary than the vertical. In that instance, fast falling an aerial down would curve you towards the horizontal Boundary, which may not be what you want. Where as if you airdodge then jump or Bike, you might get better results.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[DMG]

Ah, but it does my friend. Pythagorean Theorem.

When you aim for the corner, you are trying to achieve a Hypotenuse like Path. By Fast Falling an aerial, you drift off this path into an inferior path that is shorter to the boundary.

I drew this in Paint, on a laptop, with no Mouse. But it still demonstrates what I am trying to show you.

The Yellow path is basically the Hypotenuse path. That is the longest path, from where Wario was hit. Now look at the fast fall aerial path. It is directly lower as you notice. However, by understanding the properties of the Pythagorean Theorem, you would notice that the FF aerial path is shorter than the path above him.

Another Image to demonstrate what I am talking about. Now the Diagonal path, that is the optimal path assuming it leads to the corner. The lower path is not. While they look the same length, they are not. They reach the same distance on the X axis, however the Diagonal line does not take a straight horizontal line towards that X coordinate. It travels along the Y axis, "making the path longer" so to speak.

Now, when using an aerial and fast falling, the difference might not be as dramatic as a flat horizontal line. However, if you look at the "range" of potential points or path flights, you would discover that no matter which point you pick along that range, it's still a shorter path than the complete Diagonal one.

The amount that the path link shortens is a ratio of what angle the Diagonal line goes at. At a really low angle, like 30 degrees or under, there's not a big difference between the two paths. However, say that the path is 70 degrees or so. There's a much more noticeable difference between how long each path is.

 

[toobusytocare]

Na I just looked at the frame data they all end on frame 39.

incorrect good sir

http://www.geocities.jp/kuso_dwi_lovers/list.html

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

incorrect good sir

http://www.geocities.jp/kuso_dwi_lovers/list.html

Yeah you're right i must of had a brain fart or something.

Dair Fair end on frame 37 Air dodges ends on frame 39. Dair Auto fast falls. So Wario's best momentum canceling would be dair assuming you DI'd properly.

Now that that's cleared up can we move on to something else?

 

[MalcolmM]

He's not denying the aerial ends faster if they started @ the same time, but hes saying that u can start up the airdodge earlier therefore making it the better option. I'm gonna give it a shot. Can't hurt too much. He did the math up there earlier...it looked solid.

 

[SGF rocker]

Hey guys im having some issues with the olimar matchup. i need some good pointers against him. ive had more success when i camp hard but there has to be a better a way to approach, ive also had agood success with getting up close and biting too. i need some more advice tho.

 

[Lord Chair]

Don't approach actively really, there's no point in doing so. Force him to the ledge in order to make sure he can't rely on pivot grabbing, then proceed to slowly suck the life out of him. Dair beats upsmash, that's kinda important to know.

Another thing is that once you stand close to him, he doesn't really have any superb options. You can safely perform aerials on his shield without him capable of doing anything really, once you get him up in the air you can just generally screw him over through means you are aware of I hope.

 

[toobusytocare]

Yeah you're right i must of had a brain fart or something.

Dair Fair end on frame 37 Air dodges ends on frame 39. Dair Auto fast falls. So Wario's best momentum canceling would be dair assuming you DI'd properly.

Now that that's cleared up can we move on to something else?

did you not read anything I/DMG posted?

you can airdodge starting on frame 14 and aerial on frame 26

26+37=63
14+39=53

Airdodging allows you to momentum cancel sooner

****.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

did you not read anything I/DMG posted?

you can airdodge starting on frame 14 and aerial on frame 26

26+37=63
14+39=53

Airdodging allows you to momentum cancel sooner

****.

Nope. I just looked at DMg crudely drawn picture. Anyways how'd you find out you can air dodge on frame 14 as opposed to using an attack on frame 26. All the stuff I read on DI monentum cancelling and the works never mentioned this at all.

 

[leatherhead93]

Ive jut noticed this but why cant you be original wario in doubles ?

 

[MalcolmM]

Lulwifi...

 

[leatherhead93]

wut o_O.........

 

[Padô]

So guys I'm having the most common Wario problem: DDD

Seriously, no DONT GET GRABBED ****.

Bair brickwalls and FF Bairs are ****ing me up so does his really campy game for a grab. Also, he utilts my approaches everytime on higher %.

Any tips hints or blessings?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

wut o_O.........

That's only on wifi when you can't be classic Wario in dubz =/.

Pado if you know how's he's going to kill you and you still get hit by the move then that's on you. Be more cautious when your percentages get higher. You know how d3 wants to kill you it's OBV when he's going to try to utilt. You just need to not get hit by it. Play safer and try not to rush in too much wait for your opportunities to punish and make the most off them.

 

[bassem6]

So guys I'm having the most common Wario problem: DDD

Seriously, no DONT GET GRABBED ****.

Bair brickwalls and FF Bairs are ****ing me up so does his really campy game for a grab. Also, he utilts my approaches everytime on higher %.

Any tips hints or blessings?

Stay near the edge of the stage so that if you DO get grabbed which will most likely happen, he can only dthrow you once into grab release upsmash. Use full hop downairs to try to sheild poke him from above. Count his jumps. If he keeps jumping and bairing you, count his jumps and when he uses his final jump and does a bair run near where hes going to land and shieldgrab him.

Some ddd's will b-reverse and suck you up so you cant sheild grab them after using their final jump. Just watch for what they do after they use their last jump and if they try to pivot and suck you up, react quickly and use bite. Bite always beats suck up.

Finally, once you gain the lead, DO NOT APPROACH HIM. Make him come to you. If your fart gets charged up then you can SAFELY appoach him and try to get him with it real quick. If it hits then yay for you. If it misses, then too bad. Either way, after you fart, RUN AWAY MORE. Only do an attack when you KNOW its going to hit. Like if he messes up an autocancelled dair or something you can f-smash him for the kill.

Once you get a stock lead, the ddd should become even more reckless and you will have even more openings to attack. Just remember to camp for farts once you get the leads and MAKE HIM COME TO YOU.

If you lose the lead in the beginning, dont panic. Just camp for your fart and try to get chip damage in with fair pokes and fullhop dairs. Wario usually can combo ddd pretty nicely at lower % so even if he does have the lead for a bit, you can take it back.

Finally, ALWAYS STRIKE FD. And you will most likely wanna ban delfino.

 

[Padô]

Thanks Bassem.

Whats your opinion on Falling bites on this matchup?

 

[PhantomX]

They work if the opponent doesn't pivot grab very much and if they spotdodge every time you approach/don't start rolling away. Start watching what they do. Just make sure you're short-stage side.

 

[SnackAttack]

I want to write a new guide, what do you all think?

I like MC's but I feel as though it may be a bit out of date.

 

[Padô]

Hmm got it, seriously I'm gonna camp the hell out of it next time. Thanks guys.

MCs guide is nice, I don't think we need a matchup guide because the community is almost completing its own.

 

[leatherhead93]

It sucks when you play someone who uses mk two matches then i ban RC and then they go ddd on FD........