Walgreens Mafia - DRAW game - The mod ****ed up pretty bad...=/

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Is there a reason people are voting Rajam that isn't meta or Policy lynch?

 

[Kantrip]

Night is easier to mess with though.

 

[T-block]

Is there a reason people are voting Rajam that isn't meta or Policy lynch?

His responses have been terrible as well.

Night is easier to mess with though.

I suppose. The benefits of using the action at Night far outweight the benefits of using the action during the Day though.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Which still in turn stemmed from people saying do a policy lynch, right?

 

[T-block]

Indeed. Does that somehow make it an illegitimate reason?

 

[Kantrip]

Benefits being what?

If I wait for a guilty to take down in the day, town can carry on and maybe get 2 scum in 1 day.

 

[mentosman8]

Man, Rockin, IMad. The more I think about this role in a small game like this the more it frustrates me XD Worst case scenario for today is a mislynch obviously. If that happens and Kantrip hits a townie over night, we're potentially in MYLO after one night(ml+3 night deaths=8 remaining, 3 man scum team leaves at most 5 townies(mylo), if there's an indy it could leave us at 3v1v4, and town is in an even more horrible place) >_< I'm going to come out and say I don't want this power to be touched without a guilty or other concrete proof that the target is scum, it's just too risky if we aren't sure.

Tblocks response was meh. Nothing much either way to me. Also the benefit of using it during the day is, say the cop gets a guilty and outs it, we get two lynches that day instead of 1 for the price of one townie. The comment about later in the game being too risky would make sense, but A. the post seemed to imply sooner as in earlier in the day not the game(which I may be wrong on) and B. the role is just far too dangerous to town to not use without a sure scumhit regardless of when in the game it's used. Not sold either way on Tblock yet, I'm not familiar enough with his history to know if he would legitimately miss the dangers and the possibility of using it on a guilty(after already claiming miller implying a cop in the setup)

 

[Kantrip]

Yeah T-block shouldn't have missed things he missed.

man this phone sucks

 

[T-block]

Man, Rockin, IMad. The more I think about this role in a small game like this the more it frustrates me XD Worst case scenario for today is a mislynch obviously. If that happens and Kantrip hits a townie over night, we're potentially in MYLO after one night(ml+3 night deaths=8 remaining, 3 man scum team leaves at most 5 townies(mylo), if there's an indy it could leave us at 3v1v4, and town is in an even more horrible place) >_< I'm going to come out and say I don't want this power to be touched without a guilty or other concrete proof that the target is scum, it's just too risky if we aren't sure.

Tblocks response was meh. Nothing much either way to me. Also the benefit of using it during the day is, say the cop gets a guilty and outs it, we get two lynches that day instead of 1 for the price of one townie. The comment about later in the game being too risky would make sense, but A. the post seemed to imply sooner as in earlier in the day not the game(which I may be wrong on) and B. the role is just far too dangerous to town to not use without a sure scumhit regardless of when in the game it's used. Not sold either way on Tblock yet, I'm not familiar enough with his history to know if he would legitimately miss the dangers and the possibility of using it on a guilty(after already claiming miller implying a cop in the setup)

Sooner rather than later did refer to game rather than Day.

I realize the benefits of using it in the Day if we have a guilty. I was still talking about the scenario where we didn't have a guilty.

Apparently I need to communicate better.

 

[July]

Hola

ok guys, here's the deal: I'm clearly the best player in this game, so, I'll offer a limited opportunity to the first three players that say me! (bolded); these players will hold hands with me so we can **** scum together.

Remember, only the first three

There has been a lot of content already, and the fact that this is your first post since confirming and you address none of the current events in thread is an issue. As is this:

vote: T-block

Super Mario RPG...? Anyways, this post seems like you had the urge to gain town points by creating a quick disconnection with me more than anything; I don't care if it was during RVS stage; my point stands.

Your vote on T-Block completely neglects everything else that has happened so far, including his miller claim and various interactions, and instead focuses on the fact that T-Block voted you in RVS and questioned your activity.

 

[Asdioh]

Man, Rockin, IMad. The more I think about this role in a small game like this the more it frustrates me XD Worst case scenario for today is a mislynch obviously. If that happens and Kantrip hits a townie over night, we're potentially in MYLO after one night(ml+3 night deaths=8 remaining, 3 man scum team leaves at most 5 townies(mylo), if there's an indy it could leave us at 3v1v4, and town is in an even more horrible place) >_< I'm going to come out and say I don't want this power to be touched without a guilty or other concrete proof that the target is scum, it's just too risky if we aren't sure.

Wow, you're right. Assuming a kill isn't blocked for whatever reason, this could end horribly. It would be a slightly different case if it were a 13 player game instead of 12.

That's also assuming that his role is real, and that he actually uses it. I take it nobody has any qualms with Kantrip's claim, then?

 

[July]

I don't think this adds up with the information he's given us about his claim earlier - it looks like an attempt to satisfy the idea that a short role name is more likely used by the mod than a long one [a discussion I know T-Block has lurked out because I saw him visit the thread without posting]. In post #30 he gives us the hint that there's more to his role than just his miller status but the flavor, his role name and his role description don't match with these claims. Not all information needed has been included yet in my book. Why claim to be "a worker whose criminal background check would have disqualified me from employment, but was given a chance anyways" when you could simply claim what you actually are? Claiming to be an "ex-criminal worker" would've given us the same information but sounds like an actual role name - you wouldn't bother to clarify this before you were called out on it, eh? ... incidentally, illegal immigrant as miller makes perfect sense whereas "ex-criminal XY" sounds like something anybody can safely tailor as a fake-claim in like ... any game ever.

These are actually really good points, especially the fact that when T-Block presented his role name it was short and concise, in the same style as RR's. I also feel like post #143 and response to Gheb is much less composed and lacks the confidence and straightforwardness of his earlier post. I can see potential for scum intent in claiming early, but I'm still very skeptical that if he's scum his immediate reaction would be to draw attention to himself, and his initial reaction to the counterclaim still seems genuine to me, whereas RR's seemed to force him and T-Block into conflict immediately.

 

[July]

mentos and other people who want me to explain a scumread on July: Learn that pressure is common in this game. I had nothing. Seriously.

I don't believe your "scumread" on me was just for pressure; if it was then why challenge Sokr to go back and pull apart my post? I think that you thought it would be easy to get people to agree that walls are anti-town and you tried to see how far your could get with that argument. AND now you are backing off because it didn't work and you got a lot of blacklash for it.

You ruin it when you defend other people like that. Let July tell me herself I have no reasons next time. It would have gave me more than a bunch of other people screaming at me "YOU HAVE NO CASE!!1!11! YOU HAVE NO CASE1!!!!1!!11111"

I don't understand...you say your scumread on me was for pressure, which means you were looking for my reaction, but I did respond to your scumread on me in my #123 and #124 and you never commented on my responses or answered my questions. If your scumread on me was really for pressure I would think you would have at least noted my reaction to your posts, not just moved on and blame others for your pressure failing.

 

[July]

Screw this. I hate how I play this game.

I'm sorry Gorf. I'm sorry Asdioh. I'm sorry other people.

I am a Terrorist and I'm in this store to blow it up, but I had second thoughts.

I have a one-shot suicide bomb ability, and I want people to tell me who they think I should use it on. I was thinking Rajam.

The game will be better with the two of us gone, I think. Any other suggestions?

If you are telling the truth then there is no one right now that I think should be blown up. My strongest scumreads right now are actually Rajam and yourself, but I also know that if you are town you are active and can be really helpful and productive so you are not allowed to blow yourself up yet. I'm also nowhere near certain enough of Rajam scum to support blowing you both up in the hopes that he's scum. I think there are better ways to use your ability, and using it on D1 on someone who is the top scumpick as much for activity problems as for his scumminess is not a good plan.

 

[July]

(Just a quick aside to Kantrip, like Gorf said you just gotta learn from what people say and go forward from there. The more you play and learn from what people are telling you, the better you'll get c: )

Now, on to game stuffs. Claim early yada yada due to moment of distress, but not a huge deal. I gotta agree with Gorf on this, Tblock saying it should be used earlier after confirmation that a misfire ends day doesn't sit well with me. If we're going to use it during D1 we need to use it on a possible lynch choice later in the day so that if it's a townie we don't lose most of the Day. I mean, yeah it would be ballsy to put it out there like that, but he's already catching some flack from the CC, and if Rajam was town it lets scum take out 3 townies with barely any discussion happening yet, and after lynching him another town death(and 4 for 1 is a very good trade in a 12 man setup). I don't think it'd make sense as both scum, but he wouldn't be cleared by that flip either. Town Tblock is betting up to 5 townie deaths(assuming Rajam town, Kan+Raj+NK+Tblock lynch if he got called on it+NK2). Not sure if he would realize that a mistake would be damning to town like that, but it certainly makes me not see any town reason to push to use the power early.

I'd say it's better off being used during night or with a guilty of some sort. We can also use it as a 2 for 1 lynch at some point if Kan stays alive, but using it during the day and the possibility of losing 3 townies like that is too risky to gamble on imo.

@Asdioh from prior to that: My vote is nowhere at the moment and will remain that way for the time being. Rajam I'm considering, but I also want to see Tblock justify his suggesting to use the power early because it *really* doesn't sit well with me, and I may end up going that way if I don't like what he has to say.

I was going to respond to T-Block's #184 but this largely summarizes what I was going to say. T-Block was so quick to throw his support behind Kantrip's decision to blow up Rajam without even thinking of the consequences, which is bad in general but definitely a lot different from T-Block like he played in Pizza Mafia. Furthermore, saying that he would totally support blowing up Rajam if that is Kantrip's choice is like throwing in the towel on scumhunting already toDay and letting Kantrip and his ability decide what happens toDay.

 

[July]

Is there a reason people are voting Rajam that isn't meta or Policy lynch?

I'm not voting Rajam (yet) but I dislike that he has not placed himself in any of the discussions going on, commented on any current events, and basically only addressed T-Block's RVS vote on him for his frequent inactivity and voted him for it which looked a lot like OMGUS and then changed that vote to Jim Morrison because he was pursuing inactives. All of his reasons are weak and he's been completely absent from any major discussions this game not because he was inactive, but because he has chosen not to get involved or address any of the events happening thus far.

 

[July]

Wow, you're right. Assuming a kill isn't blocked for whatever reason, this could end horribly. It would be a slightly different case if it were a 13 player game instead of 12.

That's also assuming that his role is real, and that he actually uses it. I take it nobody has any qualms with Kantrip's claim, then?

To be honest, I've had issues with Kantrip's play and I'm still having trouble with his role being a terrorist who had second thoughts but is still suiciding. I'm willing to give his role credence, but his claim hasn't made his play completely okay and made him obvtown imo. And I don't want this game to become focused on his claim, I want to scumhunt first and focus on that right now. Kantrip is someone I'm still suspicious of, but less so than Rajam and T-Block. T-Block's most recent posts do not look like the composed, analytic town T-Block I've played with before, and Rajam has done nothing to stimulate conversation or provide content.

Vote: T-Block

Your entire play has changed ever since Gheb questioned you, and your reaction to Kantrip's claim was straightforward, but not in a good way and encouraged something that could have been harmful for town.

@T-Block: What are your reads on Sokr and Asdioh?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

LOL @T-Block's suggestion to use Kantrip's ability asap after he mentioned that him using it on a townie will end the Day ... right after T-Block suggests using it on Rajam! Can we please lynch this guy already? Rajam's neither scummy nor not scummy ... he's nothing right now because he hasn't done anything yet.

Asdioh, I don't see how such a statement gives T-Block pro-town credit. Grilling a popular target like that is actually an easy [aka good] way for a scumbag to give off the "too casual" vibe that you perceive as pro-town.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't think Kantrip should use his ability toDay.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

AsianAussie, you have made 3 posts so far, one of them to confirm your role. I'd just like to remind you of the fact that you often tend to become a suspect in these games because you're not keeping up well and provide little input. If you're not sure you can keep up I'd rather have you replace out to save us - and yourself - the frustration of you becoming a liability.

 

[Jim Morrison]

use that **** on T-block, it'll be so funny

 

[Jim Morrison]

Vote: T-block

 

[Jim Morrison]

You guys are probably right that it would be a wiser play to wait. Using it on a guilty is a fantastic idea that didn't enter my mind. My thinking was, in the absence of such a guilty, it would become too much of a risk to use as we near the end of the game, for exactly the reasoning you provided, mentosman.

No, you already ruined that mostly because of you claiming miller and Red Ryu claiming miller. I am right out assuming one of you is scum, so we couldn't find the scum between the two of you, investigating you is useless already.

So we'd have to look at other players to investigate, while in the meantime, the issue between you two is still sitting unresolved. I'd be really happy with a policy/inactive lynch, but I just cannot let the miller issue sit.

T-block is at L-2 now, if I'm correct.

One of you should go, and my decision is based around play Today, in which RR has bested you.
Something about saying we should wait to use it on a guilty sits very wrong with me.

Agreeing with Gheb's last post on AsianAussie.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Dude, T is like -1 or something now.

Unvote

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wait, do I suck at math now or did Robbie Krieger miss July's vote?

 

[Jim Morrison]

There were 3 on him, +1 from July, +1 from me, puts him at 5?

Lynch at 7.

 

[T-block]

Wow okay. Yes, I realize that using the ability this early is a terrible idea. I actually side with the mentality of not using it at all in the absence of condemning evidence. I thought Kantrip was setting up for a gambit and I wanted to help him do so, and I'm still skeptical of his claim, to be honest. I would straight up not believe it if it weren't for his saying it can be used at Night, which would weaken the believability of it being used during the Day. If it's real, then fine - my true stance on the matter lies here. If it's fake, then I apologize if this ruins anything you were trying to do.

Screw this. I hate how I play this game.

I'm sorry Gorf. I'm sorry Asdioh. I'm sorry other people.

I am a Terrorist and I'm in this store to blow it up, but I had second thoughts.

I have a one-shot suicide bomb ability, and I want people to tell me who they think I should use it on. I was thinking Rajam.

The game will be better with the two of us gone, I think. Any other suggestions?

Sorry Asdioh. I shouldn't have claimed, you're right. I got caught up in being bad at this game and I feel like taking a scum down with me would help town on both fronts.

This sort of emotion looked somewhat over-the-top and staged, which along with the leading question, made me think he was setting up for a dayvig-type gambit.

I breadcrumbed JOKER in my first post addressing the role to show my true intentions.

Just hopping between games. Of course it will be addressed.

Kay... Excellent choice would be Rajam.

I thought Rajam would be the ideal target because he seemed like a player likely to give a fruitful reaction to such a gambit. It also lined up well with my early play. I do think he's scummy, but nowhere near enough to advocate a sacrificial vig on him obviously.

I was sloppy in how I played this though, mostly because I thought Kantrip would have acted sooner after his claim, so action would have flowed right into some sort of reaction. Instead, nothing happened and I got stuck trying to defend a terrible idea haha.

 

[T-block]

@T-Block: What are your reads on Sokr and Asdioh?

I don't really like the Sokr slot at the moment. He looked fine when answering Kantrip's questions, but it's not hard to look fine when Kantrip was being as silly as he was. I want to label him as scummy in a newb-scum way, which matches the fact that he supposedly has not played as scum before. I am noting the agreeing with RR's "argument" early, followed by the retracting of the statement when confronted, unable to provide justification. There's the refusal to appease Kantrip's request to break down July's post which happens to follow Gorf's ridicule of the request. His vote and unvote of Kantrip, as well as his labelling both me and RR as town, while not conclusively incriminating in themselves, fit the careful newb-scum profile. If someone who has played with him before can give me an evaluation of his skill that would be awesome.

Thoughts on Asdioh once I get back from my trip to the bookstore.

 

[T-block]

No problems with Asdioh... he's been pretty open with his thoughts as far as I can see, and there's certainly nothing that sticks out as scummy from him. If it's his reasons for labelling me as town that you want me to address (town wouldn't want to off someone so vocally, etc.), I think they are a little out from left field, but it's not anything I haven't seen from town Asdioh before.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yes, I realize that using the ability this early is a terrible idea. I actually side with the mentality of not using it at all in the absence of condemning evidence. I thought Kantrip was setting up for a gambit and I wanted to help him do so, and I'm still skeptical of his claim, to be honest. I would straight up not believe it if it weren't for his saying it can be used at Night, which would weaken the believability of it being used during the Day. If it's real, then fine - my true stance on the matter lies here. If it's fake, then I apologize if this ruins anything you were trying to do.

OK, now after you "explained" your stuff I feel like I understand even less than before

You are skeptical of his claim ... but decided to "help" him to set up that "gambit" anyway? What gambit? One that would've concluded in Kantrip dying alongside Rajam?

"I would straight up not believe it if it weren't for his saying it can be used at Night, which would weaken the believability of it being used during the Day."
What does this even mean? You should probably reword it because I have no idea what you're trying to say here. I also don't know what the "if it's real" / "if it's fake" part is referring to, whom you're addressing and what point you're trying to make. The only thing about that explanation that is clear is that you though Kantrip was going for a gambit but you don't elaborate what that gambit is, why you think he made that gambit and why there's a need to "help" him. Your response hasn't answered any more questions than it has created ...

 

[T-block]

I don't think Kantrip actually has that role.

I thought he was claiming to have that role, intending to claim to use it on Rajam in order to effect some sort of reaction from him. This is the gambit. All of my posts were made with the belief that Kantrip would not actually be able to take out Rajam.

If it were a gambit, I don't see the need to say that the ability can be used at Night. Since using it at Night is in general a much better option, it would make it less believable if he were to have claimed to have used it during the Day, since the question "why wouldn't you use it at Night instead?" would have been posed. So, saying that it can be used at Night makes me think he wasn't actually going for some sort of dayvig gambit, but that brings up the question in my mind of "why did he claim then?"

Make sense? It's not that hard to understand, Gheb...

 

[Asdioh]

Those damn breadcrumbs that I never notice on my own make me believe TB even more.

Which makes me wonder why I'm fundamentally disagreeing with Gheb and, apparently, Guus Jim Morrison.

Gheb, I want you to show me why you think TB is scum now that he's explained the gambit stuff. It seems to me that he thought it was like a variation of a Dayvig gambit (which are almost always faked) and wanted to go along with it. I don't get what there is to not understand?

The only problem I see with it is that Rajam didn't have time to react to it, which is Rajam's own fault for being inactive I guess.


Jim, I like how you're bringing attention back to the two miller claims, and I agree there's something to be had there, but I think the Day will be wasted if we focus on that to the exclusion of all else. Otherwise, we might as well decide between RR and TB toDay and then lynch the other toMorrow, should the first flip town miller.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Is there a reason people are voting Rajam that isn't meta or Policy lynch?

Well... He IS a scummy lookin dude I mean, just look at his contributions thus far. Would you NOT advocate a Rajam lynch based on his play so far O.o?

 

[Asdioh]

I would! : 3

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

The problem is I find myself feeling this way about Rajam ALL. THE. TIME... which makes me think "Woah should I rethink this or should I just take into the account that the actions are inherently scummy?"... It's one of those people where I just can't figure it out... I mean I'm totally down for the lynch but I've seen this as Townjam AND Scumjam...

^ You wouldn't want a Rajam lynch based on his play? Fiddle me that mang.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I know what you're saying Asdioh, T-block makes sense but ohhh the decision keeps getting harder...
I can totally see T-block was playing along with the gambit, the crumb was definitely set-up intentionally and his later posts on the subject line up with it, so it's genuine playing along.
Then, on the other hand, it could just be a safety net to put down the crumb and if it wasn't a gambit by Kantrip, just say nothing and enjoy the Raj blow-up, being scum and all.

I was gonna add something to this post but got distracted and now I don't know lol, I'll come back later.

In the meantime, unvote
Still uncertain between T-block, RR and Rajam.

 

[T-block]

There is no way anyone gets away with advocating a Kantrip-Rajam death like that if Rajam flipped town. It would have been suicide on my part.

In the meanwhile...

I want to see Rajam come in and post more on something substantial.
I want to see Sokr comment on events thus far - he was reading earlier but disappeared.
I want to see Gheb explain why he is being so dense about the whole issue, when I know he is an intelligent player who is more than capable of understanding why I did what I did.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

TBlock you're really not helping yourself with the whole "I thought it was a gambit"... I seriously don't believe that EVERYBODY had a general idea of when it became an obviously real claim (hint: immediately or soon after he claimed), and you didn't and decided to continue on with your Rajam thing multiple times (iirc) AFTER your JOKER post.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

There is no way anyone gets away with advocating a Kantrip-Rajam death like that if Rajam flipped town. It would have been suicide on my part.

...WHAT?! You've stated ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS that Rajam's a policy to you, and now you're defending youself by saying that nobody would get away with being so cool about a Rajam-Kantrip two townies death? Please tell me if I'm wrong bro cuz...

 

[T-block]

TBlock you're really not helping yourself with the whole "I thought it was a gambit"... I seriously don't believe that EVERYBODY had a general idea of when it became an obviously real claim (hint: immediately or soon after he claimed), and you didn't and decided to continue on with your Rajam thing multiple times (iirc) AFTER your JOKER post.

I feel it was really unnatural for Kantrip to claim when he did. I have seen him frustrated several times before, but he takes this game seriously enough not to jeopardize his side when he gets frustrated. I did strongly think he was lying about his role from the beginning - when he said it could be used at Night, and when he waited to act out his supposed gambit, I began to doubt that maybe it could be true, but I was committed at that point and it would have been awkward for me to turn around completely and say that he shouldn't use it. Plus, even though I began to suspect he might not be lying, I was still leaning towards it being a gambit, and even now I'm still skeptical, as I've said.

...WHAT?! You've stated ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS that Rajam's a policy to you, and now you're defending youself by saying that nobody would get away with being so cool about a Rajam-Kantrip two townies death? Please tell me if I'm wrong bro cuz...

I said nobody would get away with advocating the use of Kantrip's ability on Rajam, especially when it is potentially day-ending. You're implying a contradiction here, but I'm not seeing it, so you'll have to point it out to me more clearly.