Official Viability Ratings v2 | Competitive Impressions

[Man Li Gi]

Jesus christ, alright, Mewtwo got buffed, I GET IT. Was the "and Mewtwo" REALLY that much of an eyesore to you that you missed my main point in my original post? Mewtwo has an amazing throw and a better down smash, great, amazeballs, but I REALLY don't want to keep talking about someone I didn't really give a **** talking about in the first place.

Pro tip: If u don't care a lot or keep up with a character, don't mention them as this thread is thriving with peeps waiting for arguments or strong character loyalists.

 

[Prometheus16]

I just don't think her "secret weapon" is even that threatening.

With Little Mac, you have to play very careful footsies with him because a single jab or d-tilt can confirm into KO Punch.

With Wario, the entire dynamic of the match changes when you know he has the Waft prepared.

Even weaker characters with "charge shots", i.e. Samus and Mewtwo, demand respect when their neutral-b is ready to go (unless you have a reflect or absorb option, but even the reflect option can be deadly if Mewtwo's quick on the trigger). Even shielding it comes with the risk of getting your shield broken or severely weakened.

With Jiggly, there's isn't that much to worry about. Yeah, Rest can end your stock at about 40% if she gets the hard read, but (and correct me if I'm wrong here) it has no definitive confirms and, if you're on your first stock, a standard off-blastzone kill still gives you ample time to get off of the respawn platform and punish Jiggly for landing the move.

If she misses, well, that's pretty much her stock gone. No other character with a move as powerful as Rest has that kind of risk / reward ratio, since missing KO Punch or Waft means, at worst, you're back to square one. Mac isn't compromised by whiffing KO Punch, he's still a demon in footsies, and Wario is a very strong character even if the Waft is his golden ticket.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but I just don't see how Jiggly's gameplan is sustainable in the realms of high-level play. I can't think of anything about her that I am frankly threatened by.

I like to call his 1-2-KO Punch the Easy Mac combo...

Also, I would think that you could combo into the sing with Jiggly, or even surprise sing them at higher percentages, giving you the rest...

 

[Doctor_Link]

Jiggly should either get startup buff to sing or have 6 hits instead of 3.

 

[Ikes]

I like to call his 1-2-KO Punch the Easy Mac combo...

Also, I would think that you could combo into the sing with Jiggly, or even surprise sing them at higher percentages, giving you the rest...

why not the "Mac 'n' Cheese"?

 

[Prometheus16]

why not the "Mac 'n' Cheese"?

Because the combo is easy and simple....

Jiggly should either get startup buff to sing or have 6 hits instead of 3.

Exactly how much of a buff?

Edit: The move takes like, 1/3 of a second (1/2 at most) before the first hit initiates...unless they hit you, I can't see them being able to react that fast if you do it out of nowhere....

 

[Xandercosm]

Sing should have no lag and allow you to turn it on and off instantly. It also should have a 50% chance of insta-KOing your opponent. Plus, it would be cool if rest reached half way across the board. And Jiggs should have infinite jumps and side-b should insta KO and shield break.

 

[Pyr]

What Jiggs really needs is a Moon stone.

 

[KirbySquad101]

Pro tip: If u don't care a lot or keep up with a character, don't mention them as this thread is thriving with peeps waiting for arguments or strong character loyalists.

Eh, I guess, I apologize on my behalf for bringing up Mewtwo in the first place, then.

Still, we DO agree that the rest I mentioned received buffs, right?

 

[bc1910]

Who said anything about buffs? It's not my jurisdiction to theorycraft about what would and would not make a character better.

My thesis statement is simply that, here and now, Jiggly isn't a good character and that not even Rest can salvage her fundamental weaknesses.

But I think we've beaten this dead balloon-shaped horse to a sufficient degree.

I have a few friends who believe Dedede is "slept on" and that his frame data and non-existent approach options can be mitigated by his immense strength and ability to finish the stock in a handful of hits. Is there merit to this theory, or is Dedede destined to remain in the bottom-tier camp of "can kill you quickly, but has no reliable means of getting to that stage"?

Something something kill confirms.

Discuss.

It's been mentioned already but yeah, D3 doesn't even kill early. Not slept on at all.

This doesn't matter, but for what it's worth he's a contender for most obnoxious character online. He's up there with Mac, Link, Zard and Sonic. He's probably my most hated in fact. Gordos are ridiculous if you can't reflect them back. Some of the worst cheese in the game.

 

[williamsga555]

Dedede is amazing in online and FFAs. He's quite good in doubles. Absolutely terrible in singles.

I feel his capabilities in online play and FFAs are what's keeping him from getting buffed. Iunno.

 

[Pyr]

Apparently Charizard has a grab immunity glitch now, too. Seems to do a lot more extra stuff, too.

答え合わせ pic.twitter.com/pdaZg3jI18

— 卍る (@R18doujinshi) October 11, 2015

 

[Vipermoon]

WHAT!? Well at least he won't be banned in tournaments since he doesn't appear in tournaments.

 

[Routa]

Apparently Charizard has a grab immunity glitch now, too. Seems to do a lot more extra stuff, too.

答え合わせ pic.twitter.com/pdaZg3jI18

— 卍る (@R18doujinshi) October 11, 2015

I'm pretty sure it has something to do with plathforms and get up attack shielding. I'm kinda sure that this wont happen on "real stages".

 

[Nu~]

They should have never taken Pac-Man's glitches away. Sakurai has opened Pandora's box!

 

[Man Li Gi]

R.I.P replays then......I just started getting some good ones too.

 

[LancerStaff]

Apparently Charizard has a grab immunity glitch now, too. Seems to do a lot more extra stuff, too.

答え合わせ pic.twitter.com/pdaZg3jI18

— 卍る (@R18doujinshi) October 11, 2015

Does it require a custom stage? Because that's a pretty wonky setup there...

 

[Vyrnx]

Why is suddenly considered top 15 now? They've buffed some of her moves but fixed none of her fundamental flaws.

-Unrewarding grab
-Extremely limited combos that aren't particularly good or reasonably usable
-Bad range
-Bad at killing--No good tech chases, smash attacks, killing tilts, kill setups within reason
-Not very good at landing

This character has very little going for her. Sun Salutation has to be used in the neutral--not at all ideal--or for edge guarding. She can't get around her problems by camping, she gets beaten midrange, she's really tall... She has very limited results outside customs. Bad at damage racking, bad at killing... I guess she's good at planking and average at edge guarding. I don't buy this top 15 hype.

Seems a clear low tier to me.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Why is suddenly considered top 15 now? They've buffed some of her moves but fixed none of her fundamental flaws.

-Unrewarding grab
-Extremely limited combos that aren't particularly good or reasonably usable
-Bad range
-Bad at killing--No good tech chases, smash attacks, killing tilts, kill setups within reason
-Not very good at landing

This character has very little going for her. Sun Salutation has to be used in the neutral--not at all ideal--or for edge guarding. She can't get around her problems by camping, she gets beaten midrange, she's really tall... She has very limited results outside customs. Bad at damage racking, bad at killing... I guess she's good at planking and average at edge guarding. I don't buy this top 15 hype.

Seems a clear low tier to me.

well nobody in this thread mains WFT, so we'll be left with shallow anaylsis and blanket explanation, so it'll be best that you go to their thread and ask question honestly.

 

[Trifroze]

All these glitches and and hitbox modifications coming and going makes me wonder if they'll ever fix Ness' airdodge. I'm unaware of the numbers but it's better than what the invincibility suggests because he's still in the z-axis for a while after the invincibility ends. Also makes me wonder if ZSS' bair sourspot could hit him from those extra frames since the inner part of her leg seems to be in the z-axis while the hitbox is out.

 

[Vyrnx]

well nobody in this thread mains WFT, so we'll be left with shallow anaylsis and blanket explanation, so it'll be best that you go to their thread and ask question honestly.

I'm asking about the character's viability, and there are a lot of people in this thread. Someone certainly has experience with WFT.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

WHAT!? Well at least he won't be banned in tournaments since he doesn't appear in tournaments.

In all seriousness: just like with Diddy depending on how easy this is to pull off, the requirements, can it be turned off, etc there's a good chance he'll be temp banned.

 

[bc1910]

...Who said Wii Fit was top 15?

 

[PUK]

Basically, if you are australian like Shaya WFT is the scarriest thing ever created.
And australia is the land of real life monster.

 

[Prometheus16]

It's been mentioned already but yeah, D3 doesn't even kill early. Not slept on at all.

This doesn't matter, but for what it's worth he's a contender for most obnoxious character online. He's up there with Mac, Link, Zard and Sonic. He's probably my most hated in fact. Gordos are ridiculous if you can't reflect them back. Some of the worst cheese in the game.

All you have to do is pull your shield up and they disappear....

 

[Prometheus16]

Basically, if you are australian like Shaya WFT is the scarriest thing ever created.
And australia is the land of real life monster.

What makes you say that?

Edit: Double post!? I thought that someone already posted!....

 

[Vyrnx]

...Who said Wii Fit was top 15?

ZeRo, Ace, many posts around Smashboards
And people who don't think she is top 15 still generally accept her as mid tier, and why? There are many others I would say fit the almost viable mid tier zone more comfortably.
And Shaya I know thinks WFT is good, so he will probably have stuff to point out

 

[t!MmY]

@MikeKirby or @Triple R or t!MmY
This is arguably the best time for you guys to voice your opinion on this, seriously it's important

I'm a little late to the party, but I figure it's better for me to share my thoughts on the subject now rather than never.

The first thing I thought of when seeing the change to Shields in 1.1.1. was Kirby's D-air. With it's slow start-up and sad landing lag of course extra Shield Stun would be a big welcome to Kirby's approach/offense options. From what I can tell, however, is that D-air remains unsafe on Shield in general. It may actually be a little more safe, but for practical purposes it's negligible. Depending on how safe it was to throw out against a Shield, this could have been a very useful and powerful attack. Oh well.

Kirby's other attacks also benefited from the extra Shield Stun perhaps a little more than D-air, but again, nothing to the point where Kirby can now attack wantonly. The same can be said of Kirby's ground-based attacks which are now just a little safer on-Shield, such as Tilts or Jabs, but nothing that I have found that can lock an opponent in-Shield or allow for notable pressure and aggro play.

The argument that the 1.1.1 patch is actually detrimental to Kirby has merit. For players who are familiar with fighting against Kirby the Shield Mechanics are generally less detrimental than for the Kirby player. It is, of course, match-up dependent, but Kirby is less likely to force the opponent into a Shield than he is forced to Shield. Also, Shielding is (or, perhaps, was) an oft-used tool to get Kirby in against an opponent who can strike first (usually due to range or speed in relation to Kirby's range/speed options). This, along with globally reduced roll invincibility, can actually hinder Kirby's approach/offensive options.

Kind of silly, huh?

I think the vast majority of players don't keep up with Kirby frame data/tech/meta so a lot of this will be overlooked and overwhelmingly inconsequential. Kirby's just going to do the same stuff he's going to do from 1.1.0 and prior, but other characters will benefit arguably better in 1.1.1/1.1.2 than he does.

Is Kirby viable now?

I think Kirby's always been viable: he's always had the tools to win any given match-up (except possibly vs. Mii Brawler). The problem is that his tools are way harder to use and he doesn't have a easy-win option that a lot of Top Tiers have. The sheer amount of skill and talent required to play and win with Kirby is much greater than many other characters to the point where it's more feasible to play a similar character that does Kirby stuff better. Also, Kirby has plenty of match-ups that may not be atrociously difficult, they certainly can seem atrociously obnoxious to participate in (most notably the characters that play keep-away).

He's going to need a much bigger change to be 'agreeably viable'. It won't be to his speed, because he's intended to be a slow character. It can't be out-right KO power or obviously 'dumb-good' attacks either, because that would just be poor balancing. Something about his risk-to-reward would have to be buffed so that good players who manage to get in are keeping up with their opponents. His combo game with the buffs to D-throw/F-thorw have helped a lot, he just needs something that makes getting a KO more reliable such as: Up Throw knockback, or some sort of way to get a B-air, a Smash Attack, or Stone/Hammer.

That's about all I have to say on the subject.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I'm asking about the character's viability, and there are a lot of people in this thread. Someone certainly has experience with WFT.

it's better to go to a thread full of WFT mains that has more experienced than 80% of posters here than to bank it on one specific poster.

 

[FallofBrawl]

Ftilt for WFT kills, up air and bair OOS are good too. Up throw kills at high % but with deep breathing it's a little more feasible. Deep breathing is also ridiculous when activated, and she can out lame you with her sun salutation volleyball ledge game. She has an easy time guarding ledge get up options with her projectiles and moves that cover a lot of area via multiple hitboxes (jab, ftilt). She has good kill confirm setups off the first hit of nair. She isn't low tier to me. Right now she's like where Ike was right after his major buffs, has the tools but barely any solid results.

As for DDD, can't he just like side b again to catch a gordo that's reflected at him, and why do people think every projectile must be used in neutral?

 

[Vyrnx]

Ftilt for WFT kills, up air and bair OOS are good too. Up throw kills at high % but with deep breathing it's a little more feasible. Deep breathing is also ridiculous when activated, and she can out lame you with her sun salutation volleyball ledge game. She has an easy time guarding ledge get up options with her projectiles and moves that cover a lot of area via multiple hitboxes (jab, ftilt). She has good kill confirm setups off the first hit of nair. She isn't low tier to me. Right now she's like where Ike was right after his major buffs, has the tools but barely any solid results.

As for DDD, can't he just like side b again to catch a gordo that's reflected at him, and why do people think every projectile must be used in neutral?

I thought ftilt didn't kill till really late percents. All of the things you listed are pluses for sure, but do they really make her mid tier (or the same tier as Ike for that matter)? Nair kill setup for instance aren't very reliable because hitting a nair is really tough.

WFT doesn't have much that distinguishes her as being above the low tiers. Deep breathing can't be ignored, but it doesn't give WFT more usable kill setups (keyword setups). Her grab is alright but her grab game isn't good--I know she has some grab combos, but they are limited and not very damaging.

When I say WFT uses SS in neutral more, it is because the game mechanics force her to. She has one tech chase setup at low percents, which is ftilt. Other than that, WFT cannot rely on tech chases or combos to land SS--not to say she can't try for the latter, but in general she uses it more in the neutral and for edge guarding.

Edit: shortened

 

[HeroMystic]

I thought ftilt didn't kill till really late percents.

F-tilt is one of WFT's best kill moves, especially with Deep Breathing active.

 

[Boney]

I thought ftilt didn't kill till really late percents. All of the things you listed are pluses for sure, but do they really make her mid tier (or the same tier as Ike for that matter)? Nair kill setup for instance aren't very reliable because hitting a nair is really tough.

For the sake of comparison... And please don't say it's character bias and start only discussing Samus... I'm going to compare Samus' and WFT's attributes. Not all of them, but some. This is because I need to compare WFT to a low tier, and Samus happens to have a chargeable projectile. I know more about Samus than Mewtwo.

Both have:
-Planking (WFT's is better)
-Generally poor camping abilities
-Good recoveries
-Ability to edge guard and cover ledge get up options
-Poor landing options (WFT's are better)

WFT has:
-Better CQC
-Better side b
-Faster running speed
-Deep breathing
-Better grab

Samus has:
-Better tech chases with CS (better kill setups)
-Better grab game and better combos in general (better damage racking)
-Better OOS (up-b)
-Better zoning
-Better midrange game

So I guess what I am trying to point out is that WFT doesn't have much that distinguishes her as being above the low tiers. Despite being low tier, Samus' attributes keep up with WFT's, who is considered a mid tier. I don't say this to prove that Samus is mid tier, but rather that WFT is low tier.

Deep breathing can't be ignored, but it doesn't give WFT more usable kill setups (keyword setups). Her grab is better, but her grab game isn't good--I know she has some grab combos, but they are limited and not as good as Samus's.

Better CQC and slightly better landing options are the biggest advantages I see here. But when you take into account the reverse: Samus has better damage racking, kill setups, zoning, OOS, midrange--is it enough to actually set her apart from the low tiers?

When I say WFT uses SS in neutral more, it is because the game mechanics force her to. She has one tech chase setup at low percents, which is ftilt. Other than that, WFT cannot rely on tech chases or combos to land SS--not to say she can't try for the latter, but in general she uses it more in the neutral and for edge guarding.

Holy crap, when I was writing this I didn't realize how long it was. Apologies in advance.

Wii Fit is fantastic and definately better than Samus (and I'm a Samus main as you know). First of all, SS is really good and better than CS. Charges faster, can be charged airborne, shoots out faster and heals. It does do less % and knockback but it's a much better harrasing tool while also being a great finisher. And as you noted header is fantastic as well. Nair combos onto itself and can rack up a lot of damage. Back hit of ftilt kills super early and the front one as well on edges. She has a fantastic jab that can set up numerous things. Some great aerial presence as well and not a crap grab like samus (samus doesn't have good throws either past 50%)

She's a really strong characters now after the significant buffs she recieved. I'm upset Samus hasn't recieved such overhaul (I think she's worse than her 1.03 version)

 

[Ghostbone]

Why is suddenly considered top 15 now? They've buffed some of her moves but fixed none of her fundamental flaws.

-Unrewarding grab

maaaaybe, matchup specific

-Extremely limited combos that aren't particularly good or reasonably usable

lol

-Bad range

lol

-Bad at killing--No good tech chases, smash attacks, killing tilts, kill setups within reason

lol

-Not very good at landing

LOOOL

This character has very little going for her. Sun Salutation has to be used in the neutral--not at all ideal--or for edge guarding. She can't get around her problems by camping, she gets beaten midrange, she's really tall... She has very limited results outside customs. Bad at damage racking, bad at killing... I guess she's good at planking and average at edge guarding. I don't buy this top 15 hype.

Seems a clear low tier to me.

You're literally wrong about everything.

She has better results than most of the cast, you don't understand the character at all. (idk who's saying she's top 15 either, but she's probably better than Falcon wherever you place him lol)

 

[Rizen]

Where would you guys rank non-custom WFT (mid tier)? She got some mush needed buffs through patches. How are her tourney results?

 

[Browny]

Hey Shaya how do I find out how many infractions I have active.

Because I just HAVE TO KNOW why norcal, socal and tristate isn't leaping to ban charizard yet. Also, whats your stance on it.

Has no one considered the irreparable damage to THE META?! Charizard literally can't even right now!

Paging MVD esam jtails zero dabuz, namesearch away and hurry up and ban the doom dragon before someone loses to a low tier omfg.

 

[Megamang]

Wii fit is also great at forcing approaches. She can attempt to nair combo you for heavy damage, and when that fails fall back to heal... and you cant let her do that, so you attack, but her dodges feel incredible. I havent looked at frame data but her players seem to like airdodge, especially in conjunction with charging her high damage healing projectile.

Her usmash is tiny but one of the strongest usmashes...

 

[teddystalin]

maaaaybe, matchup specific

lol

lol

lol

LOOOL

You're literally wrong about everything.

She has better results than most of the cast, you don't understand the character at all. (idk who's saying she's top 15 either, but she's probably better than Falcon wherever you place him lol)

Okay, but Vyrnx wanted condescension from good players, he could probably have just gone to Twitter. WFT is a horribly underrepresented and misunderstood character - mind explaining this more for his benefit, mine, and that of a good many players?

 

[Vyrnx]

maaaaybe, matchup specific

lol

lol

lol

LOOOL

You're literally wrong about everything.

She has better results than most of the cast, you don't understand the character at all. (idk who's saying she's top 15 either, but she's probably better than Falcon wherever you place him lol)

Your post is just not good tbh. I actually went through and gave reasons, and you thought that "lol" would suffice. It doesn't make you look clever.

How can anyone think WFT has good combos? Last I heard WFT wasn't much of a combo machine. Oh, nair-->nair-->side b works in training mode? Good luck in an actual match. The best she will get is uthrow to uair, maybe once every now and then she will land a nair and get something nice. But no, WFT was not designed within the game to be a combo character, so she doesn't combo well.

And okay. At least that had the bad but still existent reason of "training mode combos", but you actually think WFT has good range? It's actually really not good, especially for a character that tall. Height is supposed to be a trade off for range, which WFT does not get. Fsmash has alright range, but no, nothing special here.

WFT isn't that bad at killing, I was wrong. I went back and looked at this. No, she is by not by any stretch of imagination good at killing, but not as bad as I had thought. She doesn't have tech chase set ups, and she still doesn't have kill setups within reason. Oh, the back corner hit of nair combos into usmash? Again, it's a training mode combo. Unless it starts being used in tournament matches, it doesn't mean anything.

And she is not good at landing, albeit almost the entire cast is not. Only a few characters are good at landing; WFT isn't one of them. Her aerials aren't good for landing, I guess she can mix up landing with wave bouncing neutral and down b, but these two reasons still don't make her good at landing. She has to go to the ledge a lot, which is fine--she does well at the ledge--but still not ideal.

She doesn't have good results outside customs. I don't know what else to say on this, she doesn't.

Also just an aside, people start discussions on this thread all the time with their competitive impressions of a character and then people discuss the character. I had wondered about WFT for a while and knew some people on this thread used her. Discussing a character's viability and giving competitive impressions is all I ever see on this thread. I don't like the way the moment I give mine and give reasons, people treat me badly and don't even feel like they have to give good points. Why was me bringing WFT up bad?

 

[Ghostbone]

Wii Fit trainer has early throw combos from u-throw > uair on fastfallers, and b-throw/f-throw/u-throw are all really good for positioning throughout the game.
Jab combos into d-tilt for heaps of damage, and the nair trains > uair/side-b can do like 60+% (they're not just training mode combos when nair/uair are good landing/spacing tools and are safe on shield). Outside of that she still has stuff like nair > u-tilt, u-tilt > uair, back hit of f-tilt > uair, etc.

Her range is decent enough, even the moves she sticks her limbs out generally have intagability so they're effectively disjointed. Uair has pretty good range and is her main juggling tool, and obviously she has two projectiles for long ranged stuff.

Deep breathing causes Wii Fit's entire moveset to kill. Uair and bair kill very early and u-throw/f-tilt get the job done at reasonable %s as well. Nair > u-air combos at kill %s which is nice. Her smashes are obviously ridiculously strong but not exactly reliable to land (though jab > u-smash is pretty good lol).

It's also super hard to actually follow a WFT in the air because she can stall her momentum with down-b (which she can air-dodge from at any time), side-b, and utilise b-reverse/wavebounced neutral-b's (which she can also air-dodge from at any time).
At worst she goes to the ledge and gets back pretty safely with side-b and landing nairs.

Vyrnx, you can't just name a bunch of attributes that would make a character bad and claim WFT has those attributes when she doesn't, that's not reasoning. My response was shallow because your original post was shallow.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Your post is just not good tbh. I actually went through and gave reasons, and you thought that "lol" would suffice. It doesn't make you look clever.

How can anyone think WFT has good combos? Last I heard WFT wasn't much of a combo machine. Oh, nair-->nair-->side b works in training mode? Good luck in an actual match. The best she will get is uthrow to uair, maybe once every now and then she will land a nair and get something nice. But no, WFT was not designed within the game to be a combo character, so she doesn't combo well.

And okay. At least that had the bad but still existent reason of "training mode combos", but you actually think WFT has good range? It's actually really not good, especially for a character that tall. Height is supposed to be a trade off for range, which WFT does not get. Fsmash has alright range, but no, nothing special here.

WFT isn't that bad at killing, I was wrong. I went back and looked at this. No, she is by not by any stretch of imagination good at killing, but not as bad as I had thought. She doesn't have tech chase set ups, and she still doesn't have kill setups within reason. Oh, the back corner hit of nair combos into usmash? Again, it's a training mode combo. Unless it starts being used in tournament matches, it doesn't mean anything.

And she is not good at landing, albeit almost the entire cast is not. Only a few characters are good at landing; WFT isn't one of them. Her aerials aren't good for landing, I guess she can mix up landing with wave bouncing neutral and down b, but these two reasons still don't make her good at landing. She has to go to the ledge a lot, which is fine--she does well at the ledge--but still not ideal. What am I missing here? Why did the lol deserve three o's and caps?

She doesn't have good results outside customs. I don't know what else to say on this, she doesn't.

Also just an aside, people start discussions on this thread all the time with their competitive impressions of a character and then people discuss the character. I had wondered about WFT for a while and knew some people on this thread used her. Discussing a character's viability and giving competitive impressions is all I ever see on this thread. I don't like the way the moment I give mine and give reasons, people treat me badly and don't even feel like they have to give good points. Why was me bringing WFT up bad?

Dude, you're looking for thorough, detailed analysis on a weird, eccentric character that a handful of people use period, let alone on this thread and expect somebody to be able to give that analysis to you on a general competitive thread. Now, Ghostbone delivered in this situation, but logically, it won't happen like that commonly. Again, I best advise you to look at character boards for a complete look of a specific character's viability.