Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Speaking of another weird zoning character that Japan thinks highly of, what're your thoughts on Villager? I'm not to sure on his ideal placement myself, but I was surprised to see you put him below R.O.B. and with characters like Greninja and DK.
IMO characters that suffer the most from poor mental states:
Which is why I lose every time I get annoyed or upset.
Pretty much. If you have to constantly mix up and be creative with your setups/options, then the minute you lose your peace of mind, everything falls apart.
His kill power wasn't nerfed (besides tornado's light nerf), his kill setups were. Pretty key difference. Just from this patch and the last, upb and down air are more reliable move to kill with. He still has better kill moves than the majority of the cast!
I didn't mean power as in brute strength but in the ability to kill.
Duck Hunt is exhausting, and the nature of his KO power means you have to be focused a long time.
I would put Duck Hunt on that list. If you're tilting, you won't be able to set up the frame traps you need to finish stocks, and you will quickly fall way behind. Also, the ever so common situation where you need a kill and your opponent is at high rage and you're both a solid hit away from killing despite you being at 60-80%. Playing Duck Hunt feels like a constant battle uphill.
He isn't bad at all, he just relies on a lot of mixups in nuetral since his approach is only ok at best.
I can totally agree with you there. I used to main Duck Hunt, and it was like trying to ride up a 90 degree angle on a recently oiled bike. With no chain.
Yoy go in with the mindset as the Dog that you likely may not end a stock before 170 in a game full of people with rage, kill confirms, practical gimps and spikes, kill throws, or plain brutish power. Just that truth weighs on you.
SmashCapps, what is the writing staff?
Odd, I don't seem to have any trouble with using Duck Hunt. I just use his projectiles to set up some very good combos and even an RAR B-Air at times. If I use his ground attacks, especially his smash attacks, I want to often try making the opponent think, then hit them with a different attack than they might anticipate.
meleebrawler
lists Mega Man as an example, and I can agree to a fair extent, but Mega Man also happens to have qualities that make him fairly forgiving if he messes up: he's small, nimble, and fairly heavy, while also having perhaps the best "reset to neutral" attack in the game.
You sure it's 41 HP? I thought it was 50...
As far as I know, they do not.
I actually made this video because I noticed inconsistencies with the numbers commonly posted on wikis and such. I clearly show the damage being done by the moves breaking shields beforehand. If your move(s) does 42% or more, it will break any shield, period.
You know, people talk alot about how ZSS doesn't have an amazing neutral but tbh, I'm starting to see how that isn't really the case (especially now). ZSS has alot of good moves to use in the neutral (particularly nair, zair, b reverse neutral B and so on) that are pretty safe, and can lead into grabs which then leads to combos. So ZSS doesn't have to constantly go for risky grabs. The one shining advantage ZSS has over shiek is that she has a kill option at any percent practically. We have seen nairo pull it off regularly, it really is possible to kill people over the top (especially from on top of a platform) with landing the grab on sub 40%. Once she is beyond the point where upB won't consistently work (because with ZSS rage/opponent high percent, like you alluded to at the end, people can just slip out) instead, uair, utilt, bair, downb, all can kill and are relatively safe to use if used appropriately. Hence, you always have to respect the ZSS because they can kill you at almost literally any percent. IF I were to nerf her, reduce the knock back growth on her bair and uair so that it can't really be used as a kill move for when upB is inconsistent. (I believe in one of Nairo's last sets (in FAF), he grabbed someone at like 70%, and then killed them with a RAR bair. That imo is a little ridiculous).
If you genuinely have no problems finishing off stocks vs quality tournament players, I could easily say you have to be the best DHD player. This problem is something DHD players like MVD for example have stated is the major thing limiting the character. If you really have set ups, or safe quick options (not a single option, like RAR bair) please let us know. Don't keep the key to DHD's metagame weakness to yourself.
IF you are referring to DHD, well having a lack of kill setup or confirms without something big to compensate does hurt a character's viability by alot. Look at Robin, most people would (rightfully so) place her in bottom 15 or 20 before the recent buffs. One dthrow to uair setup later, she is easily mid tier and (hopefully) will rise to high tier in most people's minds (similarly to Ike) when her metagame develops, and her mains get better. Whether or not DHD is bad or not doesn't change the fact that without an ability to consistently close stocks pre 170%, if you are gonna try to be successful with him in tournament play .............
Not to mention that her neutral comes out on frame 1....
I wouldn't call it small, but its still very young. That and it suffers from the same problem that Melee, and especially Brawl suffered from, in that tier lists become self fulfilling prophecies. The meta is simply too undeveloped to accurately depict the upper echelons of where each character can go. The "easiest" characters get learned the most quickly, and so are developed quickly, and their placement in terms of viability is generally over inflated in comparison to other characters, or they are forever stuck in the "not viable" category until a patch changes them up, which resets the whole process. You're beginning to see some development in many different characters, particularly ones that have many different "moving parts", like Rob, Pac Man, and even Shulk, all of whom have been seen as mid tier or lower at best, yet are slowly making their way up as people learn how to play them more effectively and "lab them out". I'd say all but the simplest characters today still are highly under developed, so people naturally assume that if you can't perform well with a character after playing with them for a month, they must be terrible.
I don't think anybody thinks these are terrible characters.
Yeah, Robin would wreck house if that happened....
Because the moment you get frustrated with him is the moment you start fishing for punishable grabs and usmashes in hopes of big payoff which leads to his downfall. In my experience at least.
![[Deuce]](/data/avatars/l/34/34711.jpg?1423154415){kind=avatar}
