Vent.

[?!?]

but believe what you want so it can help you sleep better at night lol and yes im a falco player that knows alot lol I taught emilio how to get around camping easily and I dont even sue or know how to use ganon well lol or have exp against fox with ganon. I just explained to him how can you **** up fox's camping with ganon and my fox camps lol. thats why he beat colbol right after I taught him how to get around camping colbol camped him horrible too lol the match up with ganon is so much worst than peach and fox match up. too bad melee is dead now I would prolly taught you how to wreck fox like you always wanted to me to teahc you lol cept b4 I didnt have the right words to put in a sentence to tell you lol

 

[derf]

linguini, host a melee tournament and ill go (if at all possible) and bring exarch too. even if its been like 2 years since ive been to sfl.

ill even MM chops's peach with my fox who misses 100% of his drill l cancels

 

[exarch]

Colbol sucks against ganon.

Have Linguini beat Darrel's fox when he decides to play gayly. Then I'll believe you.

I'd be willing to bet Fred's fox beats Chops' peach too.

----------
Edit: Not trying hard enough to approach?? Approaching is for noobs in brawl. There's so much limitation on approach the smartest thing to do is camp.
In melee fox was one of the best approachers in the game but many foxes chose to camp instead because he was an equally good camper. Both Snake and Rob are good campers, why would either bother to approach?

Blah I might make this better stated a little later. I'm going to the beach.

 

[derf]

man the thing is i think if somebody acted soon and organized some melee tournies, the scene wouldn't die. i'd do it myself if there were anywhere in gainesville to host a tournament other than exarch's church. right now we're doing biweeklies even without a venue

there are a lot of players who dislike brawl and a hell of a lot of players that still like both games. make it happen. you could be the guy who saved melee (in florida). you wont be alone either. smashpocalypse in PA is still doing monthly melee tournaments and knivez is looking into hosting a large melee tournament in california. granted, there'll be more money in brawl (if for no other reason than wifi + # of wii/brawl sales), but if you were playing for money, you wouldnt be playing smash brothers anyway.

not all the top players are in love with brawl either. everyone knows m2k's opinions of the game and heres a quote from mango i saw trolling pacific west (DISCLAIMER: not reproduced for the sake of debate, just as an example)

BRAWL IS **** GARBAGE PEICE OF CRAP ****TY **** GAME WHERE EVERY ONE CAMPS AND THERE **** 6 MINS MATCHES IN THE **** FIRST ROUND AND WHERE PEOPLE CAMP MY POOR CAPTAIN FALCON WHEN ALL I WANT 2 DO IS KNEE BRAWL NOOBS ARE DUMB AND DONT SMILE TOURNEYS ARE THE MOST BORIEST THING EVER THE ONLY WAY I CAN HAVE FUN ON BRAWL IS GOING RANDOM AND ITS NOT BECAUSE IM NOT WINNING THE GAME JUST DOESNT PLEASE ME U CANT GO FROM MELEE TO BRAWL =/ IF WE WENT FROM 64 TO BRAWL THEN MELEE =D

Edit Another thing people dont even know who forward is

so organize a tourney already. if nothing else, you'll get to see my ugly face one more time

 

[XIF]

Mango: WHOO I WON POUND 3??

...

whut r u guys doing? I'm the best in melee now!

whut?

brawl?

fvck a brawl <_<;

Lambchops: ok please bestow upon us the wisdom you posses over not only us in the topic but the entire community for the past 7 years because i'd love to know how in the world peach was supposed to go even with fox when in 5 years of serious serious tournament play nobody really accomplished it.

 

[SynikaL]

If you're not camping in Brawl, you're bad at Brawl. Period. The game's mechanics simply do not culture more aggressive playstyles. You're naive if you believe otherwise and if you're winning the majority of your matches in Brawl, it's not because you're an agent of impulse. Between two equally skilled players, the player attempting to force the action in Brawl should LOSE the majority of the time -- even in a matchup that doesn't take projectiles into account. Suggesting Air Dodges to bypass camping is makeshift, as at higher levels of play, despite its low lag it becomes easily bait worthy -- similar to baiting someone into Rolling towards you.

Obviously, camping is a legitimate strategy, but no one wants to attend a tournament or watch videos full of that sh*t. And that will be the end result at high levels when players are attempting to play this game seriously.

Seriously, before the Rob vs Snake vids, I hadn't watched a Brawl vid in weeks the game is so f*cking boring to watch.


-Kye

 

[Finch]

I would love so much to start playing melee again.

 

[derf]

ok xif ill take the post down. im trying to get people to host a melee tournament. and one of the big arguments i see is all the good players are playing brawl, therefore i should play brawl too (as if **** like michael jordan playing baseball didnt happen)

btw dude maybe he just likes melee more. maybe we all just like melee more. i dont win **** and i still enjoy playing this game and giving colbol all my ****ing money

 

[XIF]

If you're not camping in Brawl, you're bad at Brawl. Period. The game's mechanics simply do not culture more aggressive playstyles. You're naive if you believe otherwise and if you're winning the majority of your matches in Brawl, it's not because you're an agent of impulse. Between two equally skilled players, the player attempting to force the action in Brawl should LOSE the majority of the time -- even in a matchup that doesn't take projectiles into account. Suggesting Air Dodges to bypass camping is makeshift, as at higher levels of play, despite its low lag it becomes easily bait worthy -- similar to baiting someone into Rolling towards you.

Obviously, camping is a legitimate strategy, but no one wants to attend a tournament or watch videos full of that sh*t. And that will be the end result at high levels when players are attempting to play this game seriously.

Seriously, before the Rob vs Snake vids, I hadn't watched a Brawl vid in weeks the game is so f*cking boring to watch.


-Kye

I have a couple of people in mind that completely disregard the notion that camping wins, like what are most likely the best in brawl right now, like bum, azen, etc.

Matter of fact, the only character of azen's I beat soundly was his pit, and his entire strategy was to stay away in shoot arrows, which while annoying and dealt some damage, was wholly counterable, and those arrows are a REALLY good projectile. His Ike however absolutely ran me and it was far more aggressive. Bum plays DK and by nature of his character he doesnt really camp either. Of the matches i've seen between what are the best players now, camping is hardly at all the best strategy, campers lost at Final Round. Bobby tried it against Marty with his Snake and to no avail, and marty tried to waddle dee justing wong to death, and while jwong certainly played extremely patiently, it was not blatantly camp. And in the end Mike G obliterated jwong with his snake anyway, and his style certainly is not campy.

Final Round is probably the biggest brawl tournament to date. At least it had the most OOS and diversity (random SF, GG, and marvel players practicing brawl and being fairly good just by being smart players.)

We dont know enough about the intricacies of brawl to pass such sweeping judgments like that. The basis for most of my arguments come from personal experience, and while generally using personal experience in an argument is not the basis of a sound argument, because brawl is so new I think it's one of the few ways to really present any idea.

 

[XIF]

ok xif ill take the ****ing post down. im trying to get people to host a melee tournament. and one of the big arguments i see is all the good players are playing brawl, therefore i should play brawl too (as if **** like michael jordan playing baseball didnt happen)

oh lighten up fred I was poking fun moreso at mango than anything else. I understood your argument perfectly, and its a valid one too. Melee isnt a horrible game suddenly, and people still want to play it, so by all means host a tournament.

Brawl will still probably be far more popular but at the very least melee will have a niche. If not its very possible for it to be like super turbo, played alongside brawl.

But my purpose here is to try to get people to stop dismissing brawl on faulty premises. Personal taste is one thing but not liking the game over something that isnt really true, or rather, just not proven really is another.

 

[SabinX]

time will show, and if some actual good matches are recorded ever, that would show too.

camping..not that big of a problem. Two equally skilled people is usually decided heavily on favorable matchups in Brawl. Some people have VERY bad matchups in this game. Having a backup character for your main's bad matchups is very important.

Also comebacks in brawl are completely harder than in melee. If you SD you are pretty much done with your round. Two equally skilled players in an equally favorable matchup will almost always be a fight down to the wire. Always intense and definitely fun to watch.

no S HIT a rob vs. snake match sucked. Once one character is down a stock.. why camp? you are losing. gotta make up some ground. You stop turtling and .. o wait, I get it. People just suck at playing offensively maybe.

 

[SynikaL]

We dont know enough about the intricacies of brawl to pass such sweeping judgments like that. The basis for most of my arguments come from personal experience, and while generally using personal experience in an argument is not the basis of a sound argument, because brawl is so new I think it's one of the few ways to really present any idea.

But wait a minute.... my arguments are based off personal experiences, too! I guess this is the part where you imply your personal experience holds more credence than my own, since it was cultured by Final Round, right? That your experiences involved a higher level of play, despite the fact little can be deduced about the game because it's "new", right?

I'll admit that the statements are sweeping, which I generally try and avoid, but I'm done being nice with Brawl, as no amount of logic, reason or universal truths will change anyone's mind on the internet as long as they are afforded the time to conjure up methods of disagreement.

"You make valid points, Syn...but I disagree with them!"

I can't believe I let myself get quasi-roped into this sh*t, again. I'm done here.


-Syn

 

[Zone]

I love Melee more than brawl by so much. I'm a Zelda Main, and Zelda got uber buffed, and I still don't like Brawl over melee. Well not 100% Zelda Main. I play Marth, Fox, Shiek, Falcon as well for tier whoring, but I do like to go all zelda at some tournaments I attend.

I'm not saying brawl sucks. I personally just don't like it. Sorry, but If Brawl destroys the melee scene. I'm going to put forth more of my time into a game I think is worthy of my time. I have more fun with practicing infinites with fox, than I do playing against real people in 1v1's in brawl. Not gonna lie though, snake is a pretty dang fun character. I wish he was in melee >.>; But besides all this wishing which will never happen.

Not bagging on people who play brawl. I'm not judging it's potential. I just don't enjoy the game.

As Xif put it with the candy and the beef jerky. I like Candy... it's sweet, normally small, and you can eat alot of it fast. Jerky on the other hand is kinda tasty, tough and takes forever to chew, making it hard to eat fast.

So if melee is surely dying. And I can't get to a tournament. I'll just be looking forward to StarCraft 2 or something.

 

[derf]

ok xif sorry. im slightly more prone on agitation right now. if you dont mind, ill repost mango's quote even though it is admittedly silly and extreme (and extremely silly)

and back on the topic of trying to dismiss brawl. what about the removal of the grab game? grabs lead to like nothing for most characters, hell throwing people off the stage isnt even effective till high damage. going with ike v zelda-- if i grab zelda (28 times with no shield grabbing since im doing jab out of shield) and up throw her, it doesn't effectively lead to anything. sure i can land a few hits here and there, but for the most part, if i jump at her, she up bs downward to the level and lands with no lag and if i dont chase her through the sky she can space away from me with the option of up b-ing to the ledge. this doesnt even touch on the dodge/jump/aerial mix-up.

for a moment, ignore the obvious solution of "grab less, n00bsauce"...

granted there are forms of punishment in brawl other than grabbing and some characters (gw) can shield poke very easily. but that aside, the removal of (most of) the threat of grabs takes a substantial chunk out of the game play, especially considering shield-retaliation is a very powerful technique in brawl.

 

[derf]

also about not knowing enough about the intricacies of brawl...im only sort of buying this. certainly tactics will continue to evolve, but even gimpyfish agrees (i can dig the post up if you want) that comparing brawl's infancy to melee's isn't fair. there are far more people experimenting with and playing brawl than played melee at its start, plus, at least to some extent, we know what to look for now-a-days.

furthermore, this is the youtube generation. every new discovery spreads like wildfire. if there was some game-breaking change in the game mechanics coming up, dont you think m2k or some random computer science major would have come up with it by now and that you, me, and exarch's little brother would all know about it?

edit: ok, so someone might come up with something in the next month or so, but dont expect a lot of these revelations two years down the line

(my bad about double post, sorry)

 

[SabinX]

so you don't like brawl because grabs aren't broken.

seriously?

If you want a good grabbing character you have plenty to choose from.

How does one say a game sucks when GRABS aren't what helps you win.

I think melee was stupid with its grab game. The amount one could punish off grabs was crazy. Rewarding camping and shield grabbers? Wtf is wrong with some people. It lost balance in a match of skilled players when one could chain grab to high %'s with practically no skill at all.

Play Falco, DDD, Ice Climbers in brawl then. They can down grab people a lot. And for IC/DDD its their main source of damage. It fits into your "I wanna grab like it's melee" to win strategy.

 

[derf]

i would have been all for a reduction in the effectiveness of the grab game. but they made it useless. and my personal preference is not to chaingrab or infinite b/c i find it boring. i mean i play a sheik that doesn't chaingrab in melee. i know that srk guys largely find this notion appalling but one of the things i liked about the smash community is a large number of us made a concerted effort to make the game both more enjoyable and more balanced. scrub attitude? sure. but i liked it, and a lot of top players even did things like this. for example, when chu played m2k, they had a gentleman's agreement that chu wouldn't wobble infinite and m2k would only counter to neutral stages

and i dont care if grabs dont help you win. i care that the most direct and universally viable counter to shield camping, other than counter-camping, is effectively useless for all but like 4 characters. and i care that this game tactically removed elements present the in previous games.

plus i own campers in melee

 

[Linguini]

But wait a minute.... my arguments are based off personal experiences, too! I guess this is the part where you imply your personal experience holds more credence than my own, since it was cultured by Final Round, right? That your experiences involved a higher level of play, despite the fact little can be deduced about the game because it's "new", right?

I'll admit that the statements are sweeping, which I generally try and avoid, but I'm done being nice with Brawl, as no amount of logic, reason or universal truths will change anyone's mind on the internet as long as they are afforded the time to conjure up methods of disagreement.

"You make valid points, Syn...but I disagree with them!"

I can't believe I let myself get quasi-roped into this sh*t, again. I'm done here.


-Syn

It's when I read posts like this that I really appreciate kye's articulate grammar,haha.

EDIT: Fredenderf, I will be hosting a melee tournament sometime in MAY.
Ill post the thread during the beginning of april, most likely ill have it arranged to take place at ZP. It will be ONLY MELEE.

 

[SabinX]

I have nothing to do with the SRK community. I think someone confused me with another person earlier. Players shouldn't need agreements to play a match because one or the other has a completely unfair, overpowered move. "ok magneto, you dont put me in that infinite of yours.. and I wont 3x air hyper viper beam you. ok?"

Seems stupid to me. People don't have to agree to not do something broken off a grab now in order to play on equal ground.

Seems like a step in the right direction.

 

[derf]

ok my bad about the srk thing. but youre replying to my personal rant about chaingrabbing in general (which admittedly was probably not a good tangent) as opposed to my logical argument about the uselessness of grabs taking an element away from brawl.

 

[exarch]

Sabin, I'm afraid you totally misunderstood what Fred was trying to say.

The most effective thing to do against shield spammers in melee was to just run up and grab them. Because of the extensive combos available from grabs in melee, it discouraged shield spamming. Other forms of shield punishment in melee have been made obsolete by reducing shield stun even more and providing the buffer system for the shielding character.

Thus the one effective punisher against shield spamming, grabbing, has been reduced to a negligible counter. It is unbalanced.

I mean in melee if you were a pika against a sheik (by your hatred towards CGing my guess is you probably played at least a little pika who gets CG'ed by everyone) you would not shield very often at all but keep moving so as not to get grabbed. Now think of Mario against Peach. How much more would you be willing to shield in that matchup when she ran up to you knowing she has absolutely no followups to any throw at any %.

If you know shielding is advantageous, why not just shield almost every time your opponent approaches; what are they going to do, 7% maybe?

Shielding vs Grabbing in Brawl is UNBALANCED.

 

[?!?]

ya just some whining *****es lol brawl is good melee is more fun there ya go

 

[derf]

good **** linguini. and i long ago came to the conclusion synikal was some combination of genius/reincarnation of aristotle

 

[Fenrir VII]

going with ike v zelda-- if i grab zelda (28 times with no shield grabbing since im doing jab out of shield) and up throw her, it doesn't effectively lead to anything.

Well, to discuss this particular topic...Ike's uthrow doesn't lead to anything...no...it doesn't. I'm not really sure why you would try it 28 times in a row, but yeah.

I, maining Ike, have GREAT luck with fthrow and bthrow both...they don't combo into anything by themselves, but they certainly apply pressure that causes your opponent to have to make a decision. if you fthrow or bthrow on the stage, you can follow it with a charged forward B or another grab...or continue to pressure with fairs and nairs.

The first instance, forward B, causes them to do SOMETHING out of shield, which is a free hit instantly. the second keeps them guessing in their shield, helps with spacing, and puts you in the same game again...with them slightly more frantic. And the third basically keeps applying safe pressure and beats a jump.

off the stage, they have the option of jumping or not, basically...and you follow with fair, in the case of a guessed jump, or your choice of edgeguards if they don't.

The throw game is not as good as it was in Melee (thank the heavens) obviously...but it's also not useless.

Im also really getting sick of people thinking camping is the end-all tactic. If anything, I see it as LESS effective than it was in Melee....and again, I'm playing freakin Ike. The ROB Snake match that's all the rave now is a complete joke. ROB's camp game is horrid, and the strat against him is to apply inside pressure...the Snake, instead, resigned himself to throwing stuff back...yeah, it was just a dumb match on both parts...not a significant showing of anything. Put Rohins in that Snake's place, and it's an easy 3 stock. done.

The only character I can see being a very good actual camper is Snake. He has the two mines, and a couple projectiles...so obviously, his game lends itself to zoning yourself behind defenses and throwing stuff. I'm sorry. Even then, though...if he's not brilliant about it...you have enough options to approach and punish easily. Snake is an overall good character, but not by using only that strat.

I really don't get the big deal here...and it's a huge fallback issue that a lot of people mention, and nobody readily refutes, it seems.

Approaching airdodge is a viable tactic. Powershield is a viable tactic. Rolls, dodges, jumps, and just running are ALL viable anti-camp strats...and I haven't seen a strat, in person or on video, that couldn't be beaten by one person being somewhat smarter in their approach than a doorknob.

Airdodge can be baited, Syn? um....ya think? everything in this game can be baited...same as in Melee...HOWEVER, that does not instantly make the move unusable. Rolling is still in Melee's competitive scene...as are SMART sidesteps and etc. even though those are obviously baitable. so what's the issue?

 

[?!?]

Colbol sucks against ganon.

Have Linguini beat Darrel's fox when he decides to play gayly. Then I'll believe you.

I'd be willing to bet Fred's fox beats Chops' peach too.

----------
Edit: Not trying hard enough to approach?? Approaching is for noobs in brawl. There's so much limitation on approach the smartest thing to do is camp.
In melee fox was one of the best approachers in the game but many foxes chose to camp instead because he was an equally good camper. Both Snake and Rob are good campers, why would either bother to approach?

Blah I might make this better stated a little later. I'm going to the beach.

linguni is pretty horrid against fox too I just taught him the logic behind camping and why people thiink fox camping is broken and how getting arounds simple lol its like fishing yo ugotta bait fox he has to come to you eventually to combo you what do you do predict when he wants to come to you and punish him for trying to chase you lol. or if he knows you want to lure dont lure lol go at him without try to fake out your moves just rush him down or wait till he does the defensive move that he wants to do to dodge your aggresive move and punush him for it

and fenrir vs linguini i aint gonna say anything about ill let linguini answer that

 

[Angrylobster]

Sabin, I'm afraid you totally misunderstood what Fred was trying to say.

The most effective thing to do against shield spammers in melee was to just run up and grab them. Because of the extensive combos available from grabs in melee, it discouraged shield spamming. Other forms of shield punishment in melee have been made obsolete by reducing shield stun even more and providing the buffer system for the shielding character.

Thus the one effective punisher against shield spamming, grabbing, has been reduced to a negligible counter. It is unbalanced.

I mean in melee if you were a pika against a sheik (by your hatred towards CGing my guess is you probably played at least a little pika who gets CG'ed by everyone) you would not shield very often at all but keep moving so as not to get grabbed. Now think of Mario against Peach. How much more would you be willing to shield in that matchup when she ran up to you knowing she has absolutely no followups to any throw at any %.

If you know shielding is advantageous, why not just shield almost every time your opponent approaches; what are they going to do, 7% maybe?

Shielding vs Grabbing in Brawl is UNBALANCED.

I think that while the grabbing game was definitely nerfed, shielding was nerfed as well, i.e the shield depletes faster then it did in melee; making it much easier to poke through shields with moves like Mario's dair.

 

[?!?]

the game is not all about camping cuz camping only gets you ***** . switching between offensive and defensive is the pro way of playing not camping only lol try camping ONLY agains me after playing this game for 2 years i garantee that ill 3 stock you lol

 

[derf]

darrel, how much are you playing brawl live (as opposed to wifi)? a lot of those follow ups to forward and back throw don't work as well in person b/c ike telegraphs his moves (i havent done over b, i usually dash attack for the roll back) and you can react appropriately on reaction. thats not to say they're not good strategies, as i often forward throw to full jump retreating forward air and it seems to be sort of effective/fairly safe. still though, with these throws youre putting someone back in their shield. and although you can continue to do safe moves that react to certain defensive options, actually punishing that shield can only be done via another very unsafe grab

if youre playing all your brawl live, feel free to respond with "stfu n00b" or something

edit: similarly, punishing peoples defense on reaction seems a lot harder in this game. in melee, you can be like ok, this guys gonna roll, and then just wait till he rolls. now you have to guess where he rolls, and lots of times, when hes going to roll as well (i guess one scenario isnt technically "better" than the other, but im a fan of being able to more frequently punish mistakes)

lobster hit the nail on the head with shield stabbing, but with the exception of gw, most shield stabbing occurs after multiple moves hit your shield or with moves like fox's forward air and marios down air that dont combo into anything. although this is better than nothing, id prefer a more positive result for predicting your opponent. (my relative lack of knowledge about large parts of this game may be showing here. if so, please contradict me)

 

[Fenrir VII]

darrel, how much are you playing brawl live (as opposed to wifi)? a lot of those follow ups to forward and back throw don't work as well in person b/c ike telegraphs his moves (i havent done over b, i usually dash attack for the roll back) and you can react appropriately on reaction. thats not to say they're not good strategies, as i often forward throw to full jump retreating forward air and it seems to be sort of effective/fairly safe. still though, with these throws youre putting someone back in their shield. and although you can continue to do safe moves that react to certain defensive options, actually punishing that shield can only be done via another very unsafe grab

if youre playing all your brawl live, feel free to respond with "stfu n00b" or something

70% + of my play lately has been live. I was playing wifi a lot...but school caught up, so lately, it's just been with friends here...

over b keeps charging forever, so as soon as they move, you get the hit. if they don't move, don't let go...if they jump and you miss it, use it and you are in no danger of being punished as it finishes so quickly. Ike's bthrow is my favorite throw in the game so far, because people ALWAYS react to it...and you can always punish in some way, if you're quick to pick up on things....over wifi...in person...different people...just have to guess out what they'll do. same old story.

I've played around with dthrow and uthrow some...but uthrow seems to be his worst. I kinda like dthrow for certain setups, but I mainly stick to back and forward.

 

[derf]

my bad yo i sort of realized i might be overextending myself.

edit: also lobster, it occurs to me lots of moves shield poke with one aerial. i misremembered. but i cant think of any that actually combo. so were still stuck in this one low damage move to punish a very powerful tactic routine

edit2: since sleep hates me and i have class in two hours anyways, i thought i'd respond to this:

Airdodge can be baited, Syn? um....ya think? everything in this game can be baited...same as in Melee...HOWEVER, that does not instantly make the move unusable. Rolling is still in Melee's competitive scene...as are SMART sidesteps and etc. even though those are obviously baitable. so what's the issue?

his point as i understood it was that camping creates advantages. the vulnerability after the approacher's air-dodge puts the camper at an advantage. if the approacher perfectly air-dodges (or rolls, dashes, etc) through the projectiles without getting hit, only then does he enter a position where both attacker and camper are on equal footing. this "attacker's dilemma" combines with fact that hitting with a ranged attack has roughly the same benefit as hitting with a melee attack to give relatively little incentive to approach (other than boredom).

the lack of initimacy as defined by syn creates a ton of opportunities to camp as well

edit3: since im like on an all-time brawl hating binge here, i would like say that i think the addition of immobile, permanent projectiles (snake's mines, diddy's bananas, waddle dees) is really innovative and is pretty much the only real argument for competitive brawl over melee (this ties in with character diversity point)... unless you prefer the new shield system. but the more i play the game, the more i find it more or less equivalently attractive to melee's shield system of relatively well devised frame advantages minus the unforeseen brokenness of fox/falco's reflectors as attacks

 

[hungrybox]

i wanna hold a melee tournie...

 

[h1roshi]

brawl is too good!!!!! just play the game. its fun. try not thinking about melee when you play. it'll help

my ***** rohins knows where its at.

-hiro

 

[derf]

try playing melee again then going back to brawl. it'll make you cry

 

[C@sH Mooney]

try playing melee again then going back to brawl. it'll make you cry

I cried inside this week

Because I couldn't do a half jump with CF for like half an hour after playing brawl so much

D:

But I'm all good now.

 

[GAwes]

(i havent seen many consistent non-chaingrab grab combos period). grabbing someone just doesnt lead to anything. like i said in an earlier post, I landed 28 grabs in a 3 stock match with ike and lost.

i grab with luigi, down throw, on lighter characters i go into the short hop double upair into a neutral and then juggle them, on heavy characters i go straight into the upsmash, wait to see where they're going, i can slide across the ground with another upsmash, if they airdodge, i wait, grab them again, if they DI back i jump back with the nair. what are you talking about lol. thank god you cant up throw rest or backthrow into shine at 3 percent, upthrow upsmash, or downthrow neutral knee anymore.



wes

 

[hungrybox]

Lol

my gayness transferred over

but melee is beautifully fun

 

[derf]

good example wes. although i dont think it actually combos past the first up air and with the buffer system, i eventually foresee people air dodging after the first up air (and possibly landing before luigi and hitting him) i am also aware mario has a similar throw combo. just wondering, can some people give some others? the characters i have exp with or against other than ddd (ike, zelda, zss ,metaknight, samus, toon link) basically have zero grab combos with proper DI. from a personal perspective, ill add im not horribly interested in chaingrabs since they're the aspect of melee's grab combo system that most needed to be removed (and wasnt)

edit: do people actually think gimps took something away from melee? despite the fact fox was way too good at it, i loved gimping and fighting off the stage in melee was one of its most entertaining and rewarding aspects.

also people seem to hate the extent to which you could combo in melee, but if you factor in the fact you have 4 stocks each match, there are no 0 to death combos. ive always viewed the stock system as an extremely valid compensation for melee's penchant for quick kills.

 

[?!?]

dam so many big *** post

 

[hungrybox]

this thread is amazing

 

[Mike G]

I think this needs to be said here aswell.

This is a Quote From Chaos over at SRK

It is readily apparent that for whatever the Melee metagame was morphed into what it became, the same minds are absolutely dead set on doing the same in brawl. They want what they want, regardless of what that means in terms of quality of the experience for everyone else.

For some reason they do not understand the idea that complex button pushes are not depth. If these "glitches" are required to make you competitive then they are not "deep" at all, they are a requirement to be able to maximize your character performance. Nothing that is required to be successful at a tourney level is "deep". Wavedashing and triangle jumping are technical skills that are required to play MVC2 well. They in no way add to the depth of the game, they just make certain characters better, IE the ones that can take said techniques and apply them most easily and with best results.

I get the impression that smash players want the game to be about repeatedly doing "safe" things until one hits and then rolling to victory. They don't want to have to alter the patterns in which they play because of their opponent, they don't want the stage to alter the way they play, and they absolutely despise any inactivity or attempt to control space as "camping".

Brawl is set up far more like an old school game where a gameplan against each unique toon and opponent and the ability to control gameplay flow so that you are in position to maximize the tools of your character at all times are far more important than fast twitch reflexes and the ability to execute somewhat complex button combinations. It is a thinking mans game, not a hopped up on red bull rushfest.

This is a view from a community that has been through game tiering wars, I have personally seen the evolution of MVC2, CVS2 and the GG series from infancy. To call a game empty after a month is foolish. Most of this commentary is based on the average smashboards poster, but my inability to find anyone who isn't in this vien to talk to frustrates me. The voice of the scrub is overwhelming the voice of reason.