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An easy way to find out if additional vectors are added or replaced would be to mash the direction repeatedly. If they're replaced, there would be little difference (only amounting to the time the stick spent in neutral), if they were added, mashing Down repeatedly against a vertical attack would significantly reduce your knockback.
Has it been confirmed that the VI kicks in throughout the flight path?As I understand it, VI influences trajectory, only visually.
Behind the scenes, VI makes constant adjustments to the character's vector, as illustrated in the image below.
In this example, a character is sent upwards at a 90° angle, but left VI is used to influence the character's vector position to the left. It's important to note that the character never translates along the diagonal (black) slope, which is how DI would influence the knockback. Instead, in effect Smash 4 knockback is only applied along the Y-axis, while VI "teleports" you along the X-axis; momentum is maintained after you've "teleported."
As you can see, the vector influenced trajectory is the same (90°), and the total travel distance using VI is the same as the original trajectory travel distance. This is why vector influencing your character in a perpendicular direction to your original trajectory doesn't help you survive longer.
That's an interesting question. Basically if you VI halfway into your launch do you end up with less VI than if you VI'd the hit immediately? If that's true it certainly takes some skill to recognize your flight patch and VI appropriately in the instant you're being hit, very akin to DI.
Was this tested?As I understand it, VI influences trajectory, only visually.
Behind the scenes, VI makes constant adjustments to the character's vector, as illustrated in the image below.
In this example, a character is sent upwards at a 90° angle, but left VI is used to influence the character's vector position to the left. It's important to note that the character never translates along the diagonal (black) slope, which is how DI would influence the knockback. Instead, in effect Smash 4 knockback is only applied along the Y-axis, while VI "teleports" you along the X-axis; momentum is maintained after you've "teleported."
As you can see, the vector influenced trajectory is the same (90°), and the total travel distance using VI is the same as the original trajectory travel distance. This is why vector influencing your character in a perpendicular direction to your original trajectory doesn't help you survive longer.
I see, I thought a circle with the radius of 20(for the vector) would be the most accurate, but if there are really two vectors like you say then the OP is indeed correct, but needs more explanation on that.
![[TSON]](/data/avatars/l/114/114196.jpg?1360761019){kind=avatar}
Talking strictly true combos, this pretty much eliminates them. They were already frame-tight, and Vectoring allows it to have the same amount of hitstun but more knockback. Think of the 70% Mario combos that we were all excited about, things like utilt -> utilt and maybe (someone should test) utilt -> uair won't work.
You manipulated your trajectory with DI too. Why didn't we call DI something more technical like Trajectory Manipulation, then? Because we knew DI was a word with more conveyance and was a better word to use in commentary situations. It was more elegant and made more sense to actually use. Technical words like 'vectors' and 'trajectory' and such aren't good for these applications, which is why we've come up with more elegant words. ie Wavedashing, DI, short-hop, edgehog, pivot-grab, dash attack cancel, tech, etc.
I wouldn't worry about Mario of all characters. His kit is so big for combos(true or not) that this isn't a large factor. you can just supplement a Utilt with a Uair at this point. And someone already tested MArio combos with vectoring. It took upwards of 50-60 percent for it to even factor in to Uair combos(I imagine against a mid-sized character)
I didn't realize that the direction of the control stick could be used as a descriptor of DI.
And that problem is why it should be avoided as a name.
Wavedash sounds super goofy/technical, actually.
This is a negative, not a positive! One of the biggest issues with Brawl is that the defender had too many options for the attacker to reliably cover out of a hit.
This is actually a good point, hadn't thought about that.
I'll probably end up calling it VI for Vector Influence. Makes it easy to use it in the same way we use DI now. "Oh, he has really good VI".
I've had a ton of people think wavedashing was some kind of technique that Smash players use instead of running that made them invincible or other silly things, when it's really just a little slide. I definitely agree on simple names having a positive effect on our PR.
Not to be picky but Brawl was the only game where you could airdodge out of hitstun. If you can't airdodge before you go into the tumble then you aren't air dodging out of hitstun and I pretty sure you have to wait until tumble to airdodge from the videos I've seen.
Yet "air dodge slide" is exactly the kind of name you are fighting against right now and wanting to name something with some other name that doesn't convey what it does because what it does is "too technical".
Wouldn't the vertical component of the trajectory increase if you still die while shifting the trajectory to the left or right? Say being hit straight up at 100 just barely kills you. If you can move the trajectory to the left or right then the vertical component must be higher than 100 to still kill you.
vectoring huh?
Sorry, I used the wrong word. What I meant to say is that in Smash 4 you can airdodge out of tumble.
No but the direction is still relevant. For instance in your scenario where Im likely in threat of dying off the side, I have to decide between shorter knockback, or achieving greater height offstage for better recovery.
Vector rotation is a more convenient form of a specific type of vector addition, which is fine if youre just speaking about melee and brawl. But when youre trying to compare two systems it's useful to jump into a common language.
Not sure if you got your answer, but he answered this earlier. Its percentage based.@Strong Badam , hopefully this hasn't been asked already, but have you been able to figure out anything of the basis for the amount of vectoring you can apply?
Using made up numbers, in your example you get hit by 100 knock-back-units (KBU) and vector 20 (up, down, left, or right). If you got hit by 50 KBU, would you still be able to add/subtract 20 KBU? Or is it a percentage? (get hit by 50, add/subtract 10)
If it's a set number, that means you have HUGE influence over weak hits (for example, hold up on Mario utilt and go way too far for followup, hold down and go nowhere). If it's a percentage it might not be enough to get people out of combos.
As mentioned, distance traveled is not the only consideration because of the different paths that may lead to the blastzone.
You forgot the increased prominence of spiking, because there's no meteor cancelling. That, easier shieldbreaks (which you mentioned), balanced roster (at least imo), and the variety that custom moves adds to recovery and offense should keep the game looking promising.
I had this thought before, on this page. It would definitely explain that phenomena.
Hmm arguably. I see what you mean, but 'air dodge' is an obvious mechanic you'd be using, and 'vector' is not. You have to first educate what 'vector' means, and then describe 'vectoring' / 'vector influence'.
On 2: There is absolutely no way recovering to the stage was nerfed from Brawl. It's definitely much easier to get back. The game actually pushes you up if you recover into the bottom of the stage as your sideways momentum gets transferred to upwards. Have you seen Diddy travelling under FD using only his up-B? And you can still ledgesnap mid attack and now you can do it through a ledgehogging opponent.
Yes. I 100% agree. That not being able to airdodge out of tumble is a small but huge thing that improved the combo system without adding more hitstun
If the goal is to make it easier to grasp, explain and integrate into conversation, then we should call DI in smash4 "VI", because its different in how it works, and its exclusive to smash4.
Brawl had no meteor cancelling either, so I'm not sure what you're getting at there. And IIRC you can only do ftilt and fsmash backwards out of pivots.
This assumes all Smash 4 players will be experienced enough in melee/brawl to know what DI is. DI was likely chosen as a name in the early days of smash because it had conveyance and was simple. We shouldn't stray from that line of logic, as it results in good names for mechanics.
This is the most interesting question.
So, the big question on my mind now is how much influence this actually has.
