VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[The Irish Mafia]

lol reno

what does sheik hate about peach

 

[blast_ssbb]

ok guaranteed im goin to saffron thnx to alex so vanz tec0 lets do some MM!

edit and reno too if hes goin

 

[crismas]

Yay Benny! We should do some team friendlies so we can team potentially in the future :D (without bombs lmao)

 

[Cia]

come to saffron, our sets are too good.

i think the funniest set was you 2 stocking my GaW w/ your Bowser, and then I 2 stocked your Peach w. GaW Next game.

with some terrible logic, Bowser >>> Peach

oh and Tip, we'll get some games in at saffron

:o

Benny - sure

 

[lloDownedu74]

Well, considering I was like 10 at my first tourney, and I sucked really badly, I didn't want to do any money matches. I knew that I was a really bad player from then on, and that there was no way I could win an MM against anyone. But I guess now I might stand a chance (not to any of you, btw xD). But I might try it out. Not too much money tho.

 

[Teczer0]

Benny - Sure why not

Me and Vanz played quarter matches before iirc.

LOL I got like marth vs his gnw though LOOOOOOOOOOOOL

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

well, Considering I Was Like 10 At My First Tourney, And I Sucked Really Badly, I Didn't Want To Do Any Money Matches. I Knew That I Was A Really Bad Player From Then On, And That There Was No Way I Could Win An Mm Against Anyone. But I Guess Now I Might Stand A Chance (not To Any Of You, Btw Xd). But I Might Try It Out. Not Too Much Money Tho.

$1 Mm ?

Vanz don't know if I'm going to Saffron but if things change you can give me that Mango training.

 

[lloDownedu74]

$1 Mm ?

Vanz don't know if I'm going to Saffron but if things change you can give me that Mango training.

Ummmm... Sure? I'll get owned tho xD

Hopefully I get to friendly all u peach ppl

 

[The Irish Mafia]

YO VANS

How's the weegee v peach matchup

He moves mad fast and dairs and ****

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Ummmm... Sure? I'll get owned tho xD

Hopefully I get to friendly all u peach ppl

Not at all. Look at how Vanz worked me.

Turnips and dsmash for Luigi. I don't know how you could go wrong with this.

 

[JFox]

you guys do know that peach vs half the cast (including luigi) is in the OP right?

 

[Samochan]

Not at all. Look at how Vanz worked me.

Turnips and dsmash for Luigi. I don't know how you could go wrong with this.

Dsmash needs to be used sparingly against his shield, cause he gets pushed away so easily. This results in him getting no more hitstun, then he's free to wd into your range and do nasty things. But yea, as he slides away, peach doesn't need to worry about getting shieldgrabbed too often, luigi's best bets from shield are his wd + fair, bair and dair.

I recommend using shield and OoS stuff, luigi's so floathy he has a hard time connecting and still being safe from peach's oos attacks, not forgetting you can get stuff in between his double aerials. Otherwise reasonable float height and dair eats him and protects peach from his ground attacks sans upsmash and uptilt and ftilt tilted up. However quick fc nair/bair on ground is like a roadblock to luigi lol, so if he wd's onto that he's not gonna be a happy camper. Don't get too combo happy, or you will eat a nair. Spaced attacks work really well though and anytime he tries to drop down on you with dair/nair, upsmash eats it away. Edgeguard with turnips till he's on range of your aerials or things (turnip needs to hit before ->b or right after, so it won't get cancelled). Big stages work for luigi, he can recovery easily with forward b and small stages is where he has firepower to kill you. Me thinks medium sizes stages with some platforms would be the best bet (like battlefield, edge might screw him up big time too).

Mwah

 

[JFox]

nah dawg, if u know how to play the matchup right you should always opt for big stages. luigi has no edgeguards, and u can literally bair through all of his forward b's without trading (except misfire). people dont realize how bad luigi's recovery really is once u get the hang of it.

pakman 1 stocked me on fd i think, than i 2 stocked him on DL, than he ***** me right back on yoshi's. BF is pretty good, but dont overestimate it, as luigi players know how recover without smackin their head into a wall all the time. the lack of wall def helps, but its not that big a difference imo.

i like big stages cuz u can retreat when necessary to get your turnips. small stages really force u to play without much turnip game since luigi is gonna be on u the whole time.

edit: vanz, u missed a LOT of stuff....

DONT dash attck luigi if there is any chance at all that he will shield. up b out of shield will **** ur face off. also dont dsmash cuz he will always get u with wd oos punishes. lastly, if he grabs u, DI behind him is always ur best option.

 

[lloDownedu74]

Also try not to play luigi off the edge too much. Maybe its just me, but I can never beat Smash God's luigi off the stage. He always manages to get back onto the stage, sometimes even gimping me in the process. He seems to be able to kill anyone who tries to kill him while he's recovering, I don't know why, but Luigi can be extremely good off stage

 

[Cia]

lol reno

what does sheik hate about peach

No, our money matches are done by picking our characters at random (hitting the blank space below young link or Falco) and then we random pick the stage.

but yeah, most of the time he gets like Bowser, Pichu, and Kirby and I'll get Peach, Fox, Falco, Marth etc. LMAO

What Teczero and I do is even better.

We pick our characters at random and who ever's character is lowest on the tier list gets to pick the stage (even non neutrals). If you get Zelda, you must decide who you'll be using in the match before the stage is selected.

Any dittos are automatically played on FD

:o

Also, See JFox's advice about Luigi. I remember him posting about it before too. I just never got to updating the OP.

I'd like to name some pointers on fighting Luigi. First of all stages- I disagree with vanz 100%, I think DL is your best stage vs Luigi simply because you outlive luigi very easily here. All of the space peach has makes it very hard for luigi to pressure you into a strong hit, so its not very easy to kill off peach if u know how to avoid big hits. Peach on the other hand kills Luigi really easily if you know how to properly edgeguard.

To edgeguard luigi- Luigi's forward B is completely thwarted by bair. Just line up with him while he charges that forward b and get ready to swing those hips at him. Bair outprioritizes his attack so you wont trade, you will just hit him back out. If he doesnt charge forward b, and is smart and just uses little forward b's (while saving his jump), things get a little trickier. You can either try to interrupt his forward b's by timing a bair during the lag of his forward b, or you can trade with his move. To trade, jump to that side platform for height. Than full jump off the edge with your back facing luigi. Use your double jump and float to get out there and hit him with bair. If he double jumps, you double jump. If he tries to attack your bair, he will most likely trade with you, killing himself. If he does make it to ledge, he's gonna try to sweetspot up b, so bair the ledge and he will be forced into a wall tech position. From there it shouldnt be hard.

So that sounds way trickier than it is. Peach ***** luigi's recovery, you can ask pakman, he ***** me on yoshi's and gets ***** on DL.

Other pointers vs Luigi-

Use trades wisely! This goes for almost all floaty matchups vs peach. Know that you can absorb weak arial hits, and than hit them back with a quick nair. (Watch how armada always returns volleys with Mango's Jiggs when armada is at low percent) Know that bair trades with almost everything, so if he is at high percent and you can afford to take a hit, you should lead with bairs. On the other hand, careful not to trade at high percents for you, cuz that trade will often cost a stock. Dont try to protect yourself with moves cuz you will often just trade and die.

Generally you want to be- Aggro when peach is at low percent because peach at low percents is amazing. Than when peach gets to higher percents you wanna start playin campy and careful not to let them get in any big hits. Luigi doesnt have any solid approaches, so dont be afraid to camp it up.

Lets see, some other tips- Luigi is one of the taller characters, so I find that the best thing to do is put yourself in float right above his head. Because luigi's shield pushes him backwards, you can actually bair the top of luigi's head without getting punished by aerials. You just set your butt up so that the bottom of it hits luigi in the forehead. If he shields you have enough time to get away safely from any aerial he can throw out because the bair slightly pushes him from peach, meanwhile you are floating away from him as soon as the bair hits his shield. So basically is a safe attack that cant really be punished.

Lastly- Dont dash attack luigi much, if he shields any dash attack he will Up b out of shield and hit you with teh fire, aka shroyuken. Oh and when he dthrows always DI behind him no matter what.


...why do i know so much about luigi lol

 

[JFox]

****...that was a thorough post

 

[Teczer0]

What Teczero and I do is even better.

We pick our characters at random and who ever's character is lowest on the tier list gets to pick the stage (even non neutrals). If you get Zelda, you must decide who you'll be using in the match before the stage is selected.

Any dittos are automatically played on FD

This is how ******** videos like this happen

 

[The Irish Mafia]

lol ban that stage

44 percent grabs make me go LOL

 

[Cia]

This is how ******** videos like this happen

LOL

i swear. that situation could not have been more perfect for you.

- you survived rest as GaW w/ 55% on GREEN GREENS
- bombs hit me for 44% and INTO A GRAB!!
- Fsmash kills me at 73 ****IN PERCENT!!!!

aaaaah!!

lol

oddly, i still support green greens as a tournament legal stage.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

That video is quite >_____>

 

[Eggm]

I'm not sure what your stance on items are, but the general reason why we don't play with "cool" items on very low is because item carriers are randomly bombs and randomly spawn in front of you and kill you while doing attacks. Apples are item carriers and do sometimes contain bombs. If you are not in favor of items I don't see how you can support green greens as a legal stage.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

I'm not sure what your stance on items are, but the general reason why we don't play with "cool" items on very low is because item carriers are randomly bombs and randomly spawn in front of you and kill you while doing attacks. Apples are item carriers and do sometimes contain bombs. If you are not in favor of items I don't see how you can support green greens as a legal stage.

Great post and this is only a fraction of why Green Greens shouldn't be legal like it hasn't been in prior events. But the truth is you need to run your own tournaments to have a true impact on the scene. TO's pick and choose what is in their favor and it shows. Not all TOs are like this but it is blatantly obvious when Fox main runs a tourney and bans Dreamland.

-Exaggeration

 

[Cia]

I'm not sure what your stance on items are, but the general reason why we don't play with "cool" items on very low is because item carriers are randomly bombs and randomly spawn in front of you and kill you while doing attacks. Apples are item carriers and do sometimes contain bombs. If you are not in favor of items I don't see how you can support green greens as a legal stage.

that's a good point because i DID forget about the apples. but the apples change the focus of the camera and that gives you plenty of time to avoid them. After that, the apples just sit there until they are throw or they fade. (and they're not that strong)

I don't mind that the stage is legal because I don't think it's Hazzards are that invasive, but I can see why some people would want it banned. Jman used to take me to that stage all the time.

 

[Samochan]

Green greens was the only opponent cp stage that I actually lost on smack. *_* And it was against an opponent who does not main fox and lost to me with his weegee on normal stages and I'm better than this person too, lol. I beat every other person on pools 2-0, first seed sheik included. =)

I've also seen someone getting 2-3 apple comboed on gg into fox uair. There was a vid, but can't locate it now.

 

[Cia]

Idk.. it's not really a bad stage for Peach since she can camp on it. But Fox just ***** there. However, Peach does well there against Sheik and Puff.

 

[thesage]

Wouldn't shiek's fair be **** on green greens?

I could see beating puff there though.

 

[JFox]

I feel like Jman barely knows that stage considering went he took Vidjo there at Georgia he didnt know that fox can shoot a ducking anything by shooting through the stage on the opposite platform. That shows a lot of inexperience there considering I know that and I dont even know the stage that well...

 

[Rain(ame)]

Jfox speaks words of wisdom.

Fox is SO gay on that stage. However, if they don't know how to make best use of the stage, then they're kind of screwed. 2-3 stocking a Fox in tourney on Green Greens ftw is funny as all heck, though. It gives a Peach a sense of peace.

 

[Cia]

I feel like Jman barely knows that stage considering went he took Vidjo there at Georgia he didnt know that fox can shoot a ducking anything by shooting through the stage on the opposite platform. That shows a lot of inexperience there considering I know that and I dont even know the stage that well...

Jesus not taking advantage of one tactic shouldn't suggest that he doesn't know the stage. and even if he did just laser, Vidjo would have just taken the ledge. Jman knows how to camp, and he knows how to taken advantage of Green Greens' terrain. that's pretty much all you need to know.

Sage - Peach's job is basically to stay in the center. Sheik ***** the sides. Anything Dthrows can be teched on the walls (and so can fairs.) Uair combos and Nairing through the platforms in the center make Peach a rapist. And the apples are a nice bonus. You should try it

 

[TyrantWolf]

This is how ******** videos like this happen

I remember, years ago we had a tournament (T8) where RaynEX faced I.B in grand finals I think or Winners. Both were at last stock, RaynEX upsmash's I.B's Marth, he survived it due to a falling block, RaynEX got MindgraynEX'd and lost the match.


Man and that level has some effed up camera angles on certain parts of the stage.

 

[thesage]

I'll try out green greens since that's also a good Ness stage...

 

[shounenkel]

fox peach is deff 70/30

i dont think i can ever lose to a peach she cant hit u if u run =P

"My god" Jman is the Gayest fox player out there, what too do about campy fox's Vanz? pick a small map and stuff, idk really thats really hard too win >_< peach can't out camp fox

 

[RaynEX]

Just knock Fox down and stay close and in his face. If you don't give him breathing room you can nair him once you pressure him to jump. dsmash his shield and CC his badly executed aerials for more knockdowns and more damage. Grabbing leads to big damage too. Once he's far away from you..I duno, turnip? Vanz, what should the Peach mindset be? I feel like I'm leaving out alot of stuff.

 

[JFox]

I dont bother using turnips, i just pressure them to make a move, predict, and counter accordingly. For example, if fox is spam'ing lasers from across the stage, try to take little damage as possible while u make ur way over there. than when u get there, dont actually attack fox cuz hes probably just going to run. So instead, see how he retreats when hes backed into a corner. If he retreats to platforms, run at him and than jump up and meet him at the platform with a nair.

That sounds easier than it is of course. A good camper knows how to make up a good mixup game. Some people use turnips to cover options, but i find it just slows me down and never seems to get me far, so ive just stopped turniping fox altogether.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

For fox, I try to meet the nair with bair, or space a fair around it and then punish
If he just runs away, I'll usually throw a turnip during the approach to cover the option of running somewhat, or at least give me time to get him if he trys to run. Your fair can stuff a lot of things, approach with that

Try not to get hit with lazers, that's really just giving him what he wants

Make your ledgeguards count v campy fox. The opportunity doesn't present itself all the time because you won't be hitting him a lot, but remember to ledgeguard long and hard v fox.

 

[RaynEX]

I dont bother using turnips, i just pressure them to make a move, predict, and counter accordingly. For example, if fox is spam'ing lasers from across the stage, try to take little damage as possible while u make ur way over there. than when u get there, dont actually attack fox cuz hes probably just going to run. So instead, see how he retreats when hes backed into a corner. If he retreats to platforms, run at him and than jump up and meet him at the platform with a nair.

That sounds easier than it is of course. A good camper knows how to make up a good mixup game. Some people use turnips to cover options, but i find it just slows me down and never seems to get me far, so ive just stopped turniping fox altogether.

Would floating be a suitable way of avoiding lasers and approaching? I think turnips are applicable in the match-up, just not nearly as much as they are in others. Its understandable that you wouldn't want to use them.

When you corner them, can't you just try to space FC bairs? If they jump, FC the move you had out and cover their other option with a Fh nair or whatever. Again, I feel like I'm missing something. Peaches don't use bair too much from what I've seen. Is it a bad move or something?

Make your ledgeguards count v campy fox. The opportunity doesn't present itself all the time because you won't be hitting him a lot, but remember to ledgeguard long and hard v fox.

This point needs to be stressed. I agree completely.

 

[Cia]

I feel like I'm leaving out alot of stuff.

The mindset I have for this match up is to chase Fox down as hard as possible. Make him feel like you're faster than you are because that'll cause your opponent to panic and panic leads to mistakes. It sounds kind of weird to rely on your opponent's mistakes, but it's just such a tough match up that you really have to mentally overwhelm you're opponent.

Once he's far away from you..I duno, turnip?

I pull turnips when ever the fox is far away because they really are key to alot of my approaches and set ups. Sometimes, I'll throw a turnip upward, FC Fair fox's sheild. They'll usually buffer roll behind me and they'll either get clocked by the turnip, or sheild it. Either way, this creates a grab opportunity. And make every single grab count. the surroundings can really help Peach's somewhat lacking tech chase game. for example. If I'm on YS, and i grab a low percentage (while facing away from the ledge), I might Dthrow because his only options are to get up in place, or roll Forward. just by standing where you grabbed him, you cover all of his tech options. Rather then just hitting him with your strongest hit, try something that can you can follow up. D-smash > Jab > Uair > Nair is very possible in that situation.

So in general, stay focused and capitalize on EVERY single mistake because they don't come often.

 

[JFox]

Raynex, the problem is when your chasing around a fox who is literally doing nothing but running from you, lasering, and retreating to top platform, its very hard to approach quickly with bair while ur being pelleted with lasers. It takes peach and long time to run there, and than to turn around and approach with bair takes so much set up time. I often tech chase with bair because when u tech chase u have more time to set up your positioning than your approaching backwards.

A trick that ryoko taught me though was if u grab a turnip and throw it backwards, you are in perfect position to come in with a bair, and that can be a pretty simple technique to get urself in position for a fc bair approach, so im gonna mess around with it a bit.

 

[Mike G]

A trick that ryoko taught me though was if u grab a turnip and throw it backwards, you are in perfect position to come in with a bair, and that can be a pretty simple technique to get urself in position for a fc bair approach, so im gonna mess around with it a bit.

That move is also useful for a last minute ledge hog and a bair ledge guard.

 

[Samochan]

Turnip throw feinting again counter happy marths anyone? =)