VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[Eval]

Excel_Zero played awfully Saturday sadly... Well that's not too bad still I guess. He had Hbox first in his R2 pool, so GG. Against Zhu I dont think he got particularly destroyed, he just messed up a lot of stuff and missed followups. Both matches went to last stock.

I got eliminated in Pools by Tafokints (both winners semis and losers finals) camping strategies. I fail at campy Sheik matchup, haha! 65th place, need to step it up. Sheik has been my bane in every international tourney... -_-

BTW macd, I was looking to play a mirror against you but I didnt get the chance. I don't like mirror but I felt like playing it in Apex. I have been getting a lot of mirror practice with EZ so I guess I should have given it a try vs you and DoH just for fun. Or a 4 way Peach battle in teams; EZ and Me vs Macd and DoH. Sounds like fun.

 

[Jethrotex]

I've been working very hard at stepping up my game... It's been a long, harrowing road for me.
A few weeks ago, I got 13th out of 70 melee entrants at Silent Wolf & Bladewise's local (Gameclucks, in WA) + 5th in teams, and I'm glad to see noticeable progress despite having moved away from SoCal since July.
I have a long way to go, but I'm systematically eliminating my bad matchups one by one.
As long as I continue to put in the good work, I am eager to progress and start checking off names from my hitlist the next time I visit Cali.

I've been impressed with Jethrotex watching him on a recent Canada stream. Strong peach with good, consistent control.
Didn't catch Excel Zero at Apex so I'll have to look him up.

Lol thanks, my highs and lows are pretty drastic. I was really nervous on stream :s

 

[Phenoz]

I have this mental block of not being able to win 2 matches at a tournament. I just went to my first Game Over tournament in Boston (3rd tournament ever) and again I lose my first match in winners, win my 1st match in losers and lose my 2nd match in losers. Pretty frustrating, although this time I took it to game 3. I did get a terrible first round matchup against Mr. Lemon (Dr. Mario) who is way out of my league. I beat a Marth in 1st round losers by just out dash dancing him and then I lost in losers round 2 to a Marth, The series could have gone either way. I won on FD with a dramatic Bomb-omb pull and kill, he beat me in a close game on FoD, and then we went back to FD and he 2 stocked me. I feel like I should have used more turnip approaches and played more defensively. I considered switch to Marth because I really like playing the ditto but I stuck to my guns and it didn’t pay off. I just wish I beat him because I know I was better. It isn’t helping that my control stick gets stuck sometimes and I am having trouble with quick FC Nairs.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

oh man phenoz you go to game over? do you go to school in the area? do we know each other? also mr. lemon is free to bair.
i don't think it's necessarily a mental block preventing you from winning 2 matches. It could be that you have trouble pacing yourself throughout the course of a tournament, or it could be a lack of tournament experience, which you can really only get the hard way.

 

[Phenoz]

oh man phenoz you go to game over? do you go to school in the area? do we know each other? also mr. lemon is free to bair.
i don't think it's necessarily a mental block preventing you from winning 2 matches. It could be that you have trouble pacing yourself throughout the course of a tournament, or it could be a lack of tournament experience, which you can really only get the hard way.

It was my first game over and yes I go to NEU. I guess it is just lack of experience. I don't own the game at the moment so I only get to play at other peoples places so I don't get to work on tech skill at all

 

[EPsilon933]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWgbY8goNqo

This is probably not a new glitch, right?

 

[DoH]

It's not a double hit; the first one clanks with the phantasm, and then he gets hit by it.

 

[MacD]

look at the % he goes 59 > 67 > 71 and he obviously gets interrupted in his phantasm

my guess is it has to do with the fast it looks like he got hit right when the turnip was released and it hit the phantasm too. so it like confused the turnips properties and it kept it's hitbox.

if you look, there is a blue "firework" type hit confirm on the back of falco. you can see the same thing when he hits the turnip the 2nd time.

so unless peach's arm random get's a hitbox for 1 frame, idk what else it could be besides the turnip hitting twice.

 

[DoH]

Maybe when it's being thrown there's a hitbox on her arm? And then the turnip hitbox starts once it's been released?

 

[ShroudedOne]

Doesn't seem like there is one there.

 

[DoH]

 

[DoH]

Also if you guys want to watch me fight puff...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5wyV-O4jqs

 

[knightpraetor]

nice. i wish you came to more tourneys and gave me tips on my matches that don't get recorded. It's annoying not being able to remember and fix everything. i wish everything i played got recorded

 

[MacD]

LOL mahone really threw that 2nd game vs you. after that dsmash on the platform last stock he like lost all his confidence and i could tell you felt in control.

same goes for that last stock on FD. he lost his confidence and started playing weird, and you jumped on that and took it convincingly.

mahone should start doing that double bair on shield with puff. the one where you land then full hop another bair away from them but space it so it still hits the shield. and he need to stop yolo pounding LOL, those were hilarious.

 

[DoH]

I really wanted to pull a mccain and just throw out upsmash to counter the yolo pounds but he never ran into it

 

[MacD]

you got him with 1 upsmash. but it's hard. puffs don't normally go above you when you have the ability to usmash. i could tell you were throwing some out trying to get them.

you got more fsmashes than i seem to vs puff. not sure if it's just mahone's style or what though. i need to practice using those vs puff more

 

[DoH]

I killed him at like 80 with it in doubles so I think he was being cautious of them

 

[Phenoz]

I try to U-air puffs but its also very hard

 

[MT_]

Would anyone here be gracious enough to tell me how to play this character? I don't know what I'm doing >_>

vs Marth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjUTLy8Tohc
vs Falco/Fox/Sheik: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2OtBUPQGo8

Any/all advice is appreciated... even blatantly obvious things.

 

[DiamondDust]

This thread is awesome. Just got second place at a tournament with Peach thanks to all the info here. That Marth match up is brutal though.

 

[knightpraetor]

rare for me to post a request for help here, but i am really curious. What is your recommended edgeguard setup off bthrow on fox. is there a way to cover everything? or do you hard read and pray? I just want to hear people's suggestions so that I know I am considering all my options

 

[OliClutch117]

Could you guys critique my peach and help me with my puff MU. Any input is appreciated.

 

[BTmoney]

so, peach is a lot of fun. been playing floaties lately (pretty much mained every viable character that isn't a floaty at this point) and they are underrated.

how viable to you peach players think she is? in your eyes is she worth the time investment or does anyone think the meta is shifting against her favor?
watching armada is so inspiring

edit:

and wtf marth. fighting marth feels impossible fighting fox is easier

 

[The Irish Mafia]

She gets to play pretty much every mu as 5050, so I consider that viable. Seeing as someone was able to become the best player in the world with her and only had to change for one matchup.

 

[baka4moé]

Hi everyone, i have a question about edgeguarding fox. Is there a way to somehow cover both fox's side b sweetspot to the ledge, and side b right above the ledge? It seems if i try to cover the former, the latter option hits me; and if i try to cover the latter option, fox just gets back safely by grabbing that ledge. I try to react to the right option for when fox decides to side b, but if he goes to the ledge my dair is too slow, and if he goes slightly above the ledge, my nair sometimes hits with the reverse hitbox to hit them back on stage (so, I end up having to sort of guess at times). Is reacting to both options even possible? Or do I pretty much have to play rps/read them?

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Daniel, if you can go super-fast, you can float dair to cover sweetspot, and then cancel and try to get groundfloat nair out once you hear the noise and see that they aren't sweetspotting. Otherwise I'd suggest bair, but sometimes they trade and go towards the center of the stage, which sucks. Another good option might be fadeaway fair; it's probably active/hits low enough to cover both options, but definitely requires more precision. Whatever you do, it's gonna take a lot of reaction.

 

[john!]

does nair always beat spacies side-b and send them away from the stage?

 

[MacD]

it's all timing

time it right, you hit them off the stage

time it a little late and you clink

don't do it right and they hit you

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

does nair always beat spacies side-b and send them away from the stage?

Short answers, yes.

Spoiler: Reasons

Any action in the game is done in incremental steps and some take larger steps for being faster or not (ex. falling speed). Well, Falco/Fox translate huge steps each frame during the middle of their SideB. In melee, this spacing is still small enough that you can throw out a move like Nair and it will catch fox for trying to go right through it since his steps taken and peach's nair are still big enough to hit it. However, that is only if you start up early enough. If you start-up say a frame late, you might catch fox when he already incremented a step behind you, thus you hit him backwards. In these steps, his hurtbox proceeds his hitbox in these translations by a frame.

 

[WIDL]

I beat a Puff (Tekk) who got 5th at Beast 4. Woo. Really wish it got recorded. Feel like I got the Puff matchup down, but then again, I haven't really played American puffs. I freak out every time I see people use dash attack in that matchup.

Anyways... I know DoH disagree with the team combination, but this is my situation: I'm teaming with a Falco for some coming tournaments. Any tips/good teams to look to? We did pretty ok with this combination at Beast 4.

 

[baka4moé]

Thanks for your response James! What you said makes sense, but it seems very difficult (even possible? lol). I know bair and nair are fast enough, but I'm not sure if dair and fair are (as in, we'd have to input the move before the fox even inputs their side b, which I feel is more read-like than reaction-like). I like the idea of fair though, in that it may be low enough to cover both options if timed right, though it'd be super tight timing. I wonder if bair, if floating as low as possible from the stage, would hit the sweetspot?

Also, if anyone has some spare time, I've been having trouble with fox (specifically this fox lol) recently, and I finally managed to get a set with him recorded. I was waiting for it to go on youtube, but I hope to enter a tourney this weekend and I'll probably have to play him. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! (I did notice I didn't adapt to him sweetspotting the ledge with side b at all, yikes..) Fresh perspectives are always helpful . The set is here (might have to refresh a bit, the link was wonky for me): http://www.twitch.tv/smashstudios/b/505696655?t=70m50s

 

[Blother]

Adding to the question about teams. What are good team comps for peach?

 

[Xyzz]

Fox is perfect, but you can do well with just about everybody.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Peach/Falco is a bit tricky. I've played it a couple times, you're going to need to pay attention to the Falco super hard. He's about ten times more frail than Fox and is going to be a big portion of your combo/kill power. Try to save him as often as you need to without putting yourself in danger, of course.

He can't shoot lasers quite as much in teams, as a general rule, but if you're often floating, he's got a bit more freedom with how he can shoot them, and that's very critical for disrupting the enemy team. I'm sure you can get laser > downsmash or laser > FC aerial combos. Something to practice and look for. I would say it basically works like any Peach/team mate with kill power team, but you need to remember that Falco is frail and sort of slow. This isn't really indepth at all, it only scratches the surface, really, but hopefully it's good for a starting point.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

peaches best teammates are fox and sheik. she's also really good with ganon (& sometimes falco), and pretty good with other floaties, such as peach, puff, samus, and IC's. She needs a teammate whose mobility can make up for hers. It's very easy to keep peach away from her teammate in teams which is usually the best strategy against her.
Daniel, I'll watch your set and post about it after.
So i was writing it up and accidentally backpaged my browser. I guess that's a good reason to be concise.
Game 1 was a solid win. I saw him use fullhop aerials to punish the end of your float, so I'd like to see you use wavedash back more to beat his jumpins, and for you to fullhop back and float just a tad longer. You didn't ledgeguard like armada (kill them everytime they're offstage), but you didn't have any major ****ups.
Game 2 was fantastic. You got big fat punishes every stock and forced him to the ledge with dash attack. I saw him fullhop & doublejump by the ledge a lot, which you punished on reaction with fullhop nair trade. I would've liked to see you predict the fullhop by the ledge with fullhop fair, and punish the doublejump with usmash. Very good win asides from that.
Game 3 was great until the stitchface. You went out of your way to use it and he managed to keep playing aggressive while still preemptively countering it. I liked that you just chucked it up and were done with it, but the damage was already done. On yoshis in particular, I wanted to see you use a lot more wavedash back dsmash. Her punish game on that stage is unreal, and fox doesn't have any good choices except to approach. That being said, I saw you jump and float forward a lot, probably more than I'd advise. Like I said, he'll end up keeping the pressure on himself if you let him. That's also where I saw a lot of the damage you recieved come from game 4. I saw a lot of potential kills get dropped that game because you didn't grab the ledge. I know she has ****tty options from the ledge but you had to grab it with confidence & didn't.
Last stock was terrifying. I feel the reason you lost the last hit is because you committed to floating. Had you stayed grounded, you might've had a better chance getting a fthrow or out of shield punish. The most important thing is that with proper SDI, he couldn't have gotten a kill from a throw, meaning he'd have to land an usmash or bair.

 

[Xyzz]

She needs a teammate whose mobility can make up for hers.

In other words: don't team with Zelda :D

Because, well, Falco / Ganon aren't charatcers that I would mention when we're talking about mobility

 

[Babatunde]

Now that we on the topic of dubz, id like to know what is Peach's best option to claim the stage? (i.e knocking an opponent(s) off to one side of the stage and claiming it for you and your partner) Dsmash, Aerials, or both?

 

[Ryobeat]

Now that we on the topic of dubz, id like to know what is Peach's best option to claim the stage? (i.e knocking an opponent(s) off to one side of the stage and claiming it for you and your partner) Dsmash, Aerials, or both?

This question is too general. It depends on your positioning, your opponents positioning, and what character you are trying to take space from. Can you give me a specific example? Btw, I'm really gonna make it my goal to come to this thread everyday from now on and write everything I can. I want to focus harder on Melee. Btw, I'm gonna critique my own match here, and I would also love if you guys gave me your input Got top 32 at ROM! This is the match vs Tian;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXU5eIPhCfs

I will try to like, critique 1 video a day if there is one (My critiques are mad long. LOL )

 

[Babatunde]

Oh i think i know now, Dsmash when its really packed and aerials to claim stage when things are a bit more separate i believe. Also good stuff against that Sheik! I was rootin for ya ;P

 

[MacD]

@ Ryobeat you weren't pulling enough turnips vs the needle camp early, and you were running into a lot of needles. lucky for you, tian didn't seem to know how to deal with you when you got around a needle and close to him on the platform. someone like okami/sung would sheild drop or something and punish a bad approach.

your edge guarding was ok. would like to have seen you grab the ledge a few times you didn't, but i'm going to chalk it up to partly nerves and partly not thinking you could get there fast enough.

things started off kinda rough but it looks like you figured him out just within the first game.

i suck at advice YAY!!!

also wtf, everyone is more technical than i am god damn it

@ Babatunde i'd suggest just watching teams matches and seeing what people do for different characters, against different characters, and in different situations. it's hard to answer a question like that about teams because there are soooooooo many options