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I definitely agree with this one. Bowser's new n-air is laughably stupid. IDK what they were thinking with that. The Melee/Brawl n-air wasn't even all that beastly either, idk why they needed to change it.
Idk these kind of contradictory, crushing you under his immense weight seems like a fitting thing to do for someone who wants take you down. Seems way better for a monstrous creature to do that instead of turning invisible
I agree with this. Actually I knew I went a bit overboard with the down throw bodyslam. I just wish he'd slam the foe on to the ground and ground pound them from there inspired after the Thwomp enemy. I just want him to be more "Bowser" like y'know? I know our definitions may very. It's all so complicated. Bowser's moveset is sooo bland. Bowser is sadistic. And fun.
Down Taunt: Ayumi Tachibana draws a naginata.
Weirdest thing still to think about that, just having him be there to possibly get beaten by him. Maybe should have brought in Morgan instead...
It probably wasn't worth the effort to change the FS when gameplay-wise, it still fit the style of Final Smashes that Ultimate wanted every character to have. Chrom's model was also close enough to fighter-quality (hence it being reused by his playable self) so modeling a different NPC for Robin to summon would've taken away potential resources from...anything else that needed modeling.
You're really blaming the wrong culprit here. Smash has a history of mishandling Assist Trophy reveals and outwardly presenting them as disappointing or inferior, really there needs to be a shift in marketing for dunk-posting to cease to be on a major scale, both hyping up ATs more and piping down the hype around playable characters. They should seriously be taking notes from how the echo fighter name was recieved and reconsider how their marketing effects the fandom.I really want Assist Trophies completely omitted from next Smash-installment. Especially if it meant spending resources on something more substantial to the core gameplay or features.
Their presence in Smash has often been notable only during speculation-era as it's mainly focused on fan favorite requests either getting to be celebrated for getting Sakurai's attention for getting in, or mourned on them getting passed over the roster, some more than once. And then they kind of vanish from any further presece than that as the very function of ATs is linked solely on the casual ecosystem of Smash, which is generally not the one focused on during most of official Nintendo tournaments, and especially competitive scene.
I've long been pretty unimpressed about ATs trying to be these strange alternative take on more naturally sensible concept of Pokeballs as items and trying to pay tribute to Nintendo's lesser-known IPs or fan favorite requests in the mix of NPC characters that fit the AT-role perfectly for how little character they have at base (like, a Hammer Bro). With how the focus is always going to be on the playable roster and how Whispy Woods or Randall the Cloud having more history and presence with hardcore Melee-fans through them being inseparable from it's competitive stages, has made me realize how just lacking ATs' presence in Smash-series is comparison after all these years.
Two ways could be gone about changing this:
- Keep the ATs as is, but go remove requested characters from both featured series (i.e Waluigi, Lyndis, Midna) or C-List Nintendo-games (i.e Isaac, Takamaru) entirely from the Assist-lineup, and concentrate mainly on NPCs or weird iconography from Nintendo's history instead to bring in mayhem based specifically on how they functioned in their games (I.E Mario-enemies, Kawasaki, Dr.Kawashima, etc). The ATs now feel more consistent on what kind of characters it brings out to help you alongside cutting off a major source of bummery to fans of often-recurring Assists.
(Trust me, you won't notice them missing - I certainly didn't with either Isaac in SSB4 or Saki Amamiya in Ultimate.)
- The Assists are instead reworked to become more integral to the overall gameplay - like an assist system inspired by the Capcom's Versus-games, This would allow them to be participate more with the active demographic and even give them moments to shine through cool tactics competitive players could do with them, making them more actively notable and spoken in Smash-fanbase overall.
Would generally lead less to this kinda humor too as Assist become more integral to the main game than before as possible extensions of possibilities for the playable characters.
Weirdest thing still to think about that, just having him be there to possibly get beaten by him. Maybe should have brought in Morgan instead...
You don't see the difference between one mook amongst many other and the main character of two games? Really? That's not a difference made up by the fans...
Klaptrap has fans, Isaac has fans, they're both fictional creations, the amount of fans or significance to the work doesn't really matter. A character's role in their game or size of their fandom is not reflected within Smash's diegetic universe or game design. One's a fantasy hero with element powers, the other's a tiny crocodile that bites. Those are (or at least should be) the only facts truly relevant to Smash. Not that outside factors can't effect character picks, but there's nothing surrounding Klaptrap that at all makes him that bad aside from personal opinion, which is what matters more, not "objective facts".
Pretty much. I never really understood a vocal part of Smash-fandom telling ones being bummed or annoyed by a AT-related deconfirmation to be "grateful" to Sakurai for including characters in Smash in any capacity at all, especially when the way he's come to portray them really plays them in to be dunked on by other parties that don't have such connection to these characters as their fans do.
When you have a character with more closer history or presence in their gamer lives through being a main or secondary character from a game that shaped such lives, next to enemy mooks or weirder in a vein that makes them feel more like mooks themselves to summon - THEN having to shift through 1/56 chance to even see your favorite character already after ATs are already marketed in somewhat non-flattering manner... that's bound to sour someone more often than make them feel happy or content over time.
Lenidem
put it, there's kind of a difference, and it's not something easy to brush down the carpet for "fan demand"-based fallacy thinking.Yet this is a game that celebrates Nintendo's history and then some, and is highly aware of such fact, reveling on it in it's marketing hype, easter eggs (like Simon's weird victory screen tributing to a glitch) and just the way it includes requested characters often in Mii Costumes or Assist Trophies. Your point kinda falls apart when you try to imply all these can be handwaved as having exact same importance across all characters in NPC-roles in Smash-games.
I don't know where you're getting the idea that all Isaac fans are inherently more devoted than Klaptrap fans from, that seems more like a quanitity issue, not a passion issue - there is statistically likely some Klaptrap die-hard out there who has commisioned every etsy plush maker to make Klaptraps and listens to "Someone Get My Teeth Back" on loop every day, I don't get why they as a single person would be less valid to listen to than a hundred Isaac fans for any reason than just really wanting money (which is the core motive behind appealing to fan demand, let's not be naive).
Well, that's a sign that Smash should change really, to work better in a vacuum instead of trying to be a reward for playing other games, and to stop being a marketing hype machine. Plus it's not like you can't get easter eggs out of a mook or side character. Smash has composited characters before, a whip skeleton could do the glitch victory just fine.
I know this goes against your argument that Mario, DK etc. being assists could have exclusive moves, but there's pretty much already assets for each playable character having an assist counterpart thanks to Ditto. Its AI is much more simplistic compared to even level 1 CPUs, and it has limits based on which character it copies, such as only being able to transform into Popo without Nana.
This even moreso. Though it kinda had me think that if playable fighters could be turned to Assists too, then ATs feel a bit more redundant to be spent time on resource-wise.
As an additional heads up, you should probably quote the person you're replying to. See the reply button on the far right?
I had no idea I was the biggest something around here, but okay. I can't believe you make me explain this, but let's go.
That logic makes no sense to me really - it feels way too strongly dependent on the source material and the desire to "represent it" or "please its fans" and not on the character's existence in a vacuum and how it would translate to a fighting style. I mean, you say your MW is Skull Kid, right? Skull Kid is also bad for the playable character. What makes a mook different from a villain or even a sidekick in this context? When Luigi was added in 64 he had previously been mostly relegated to the awkward multiplayer platformer modes very few players would play, he also fails to meet your criteria of "spending time", at least at that temporal context. Additionally, you acknowledge the outliers exist, yet you seem to think that on virtue of being outliers, they just don't matter? If making people happy is to be a goal of Smash's roster design, why doesn't the theoretical single Klaptrap Guy out there matter? It feels like bizarre collectivism to me, "make the most people happy", not "make people happy" - every character would make someone happy, the fan demand mentality either cannibalises itself or just treats the wider fandom as a blobby mass that can only give definitive "Yes" and "No" answers.
I don't. I call the game a cheating ****
I think I'd boo every time he appeared
Then I guess we can stop now. It's like you insist on saying that planets and stars are exactly the same things because they are both shiny objects in the sky: on a superficial level, you're not wrong, but there are huge differences, whether you like it or not.
Smash is a crossover of pre-existing franchises, so its characters do not exist in a vacuum, and pleasing the fans is and has always been at the core of Smash's appeal.
Skull Kid if my most wanted, yes. But if Link wasn't playable, guess who I would want more? Besides, Skull Kid is the main antagonist of his game. I'm not going to explain it, but that makes him way more important and memorable than any of its mooks.
I never said they don't matter, although I do think they matter less. But that was not my point: my point was only to explain you why this difference matters to most people.
Why please a lot of people when you can please just a few? Serioulsy?
If you really have never felt any kind of immersion while playing a game, it's a bit sad. But you understand that the identification is only partial right?...
Understandable!@fogbadge said:
It's clear that I'm looking at a 6 and you're looking at a 9 here, these are all perspectives deep rooted in how we played games growing up and perhaps even what games we played, there's a lot I can pick apart but it wouldn't be worth the time because these opinions may just be rooted in our respective identities and perspectives - but I want to say that this specific remark gives me BAD vibes beyond simple disagreement. I'm not assuming you have any concious prejudices at all, but I view games through their code and design choices, and characters detached from myself, because that's how my brain is wired - the 'tism - so to call that "a bit sad" just makes me... ugh. ew. I percieve films and TV the same way, with the only exception being... like, maybe occasionally satirical content that's intended to be relatable? But not really, at least beyond just a very superficial "he's so like me" level.
I don’t know what this is referring to but just because a practice is a norm in the video games industry doesn’t make it good. If someone criticizes Smash for doing something that other games do all the time that’s fine if they have a genuine point.
Notice how I said "it'd be" rather than "it's". I'm talking about hypothetical things here, like a Smash sequel that doesn't bring everyone back having veterans take up DLC slots.
I agree that cuts are normal and should be expected, but like... what's the point of a dog whistle if it'll only make you look worse without context? I thought you were responding to criticism of something actually morally-based like the mystery season pass system at first.
A Sequel that similar in experience and expands upon what worked last time and not a radical reinvention!? Unthinkable! I've been duped!
