Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)

[Ze Diglett]

If it were up to me, I would axe having entirely different characters being used as alternate costumes (mainly the Koopalings for Bowser Jr. & Alph for Olimar).

It sets a precedent that the character is interchangeable with anyone else, which really couldn't be further from the truth for these characters. It limits their potential to truly be themselves and have their own personalities shown off through animations and moves because they have to share their costumes with unrelated schmucks. They're never willing to commit fully anyway since their Final Smashes are still based on the original skin of the character. At the end of the day you're left with a character with generalized animations so that other characters can fit this mold, instead of making the character actually... have their character.

It only works in specific circumstances; mainly Steve since all Minecraft characters are avatars with no personality and move the same way, although even then I do find short Enderman to be a little egregious. I can't comment on Hero because I'm not familiar enough with the source material.

I think the Koopalings are a fair case since they are individually and collectively about as unique as stale bread. Them turning into Shadow Mario is kinda weird, but I think them sharing a slot is more than acceptable.

 

[Quillion]

Honestly, this whole thing with people going on unpopular opinion threads and being shocked when they see unpopular opinions really does remind me of the NASB thread - the whole marketing campaign for NASB1 was basically just Discord screenshots saying "we have Melee mechanics" yet people on that thread would get mortified every time someone suggested Ultimate has flaws.

It's not that the opinions are unpopular; I prefer when people disagree over echo chambering.

It's more a problem with people presenting genuine insights in spiteful or contemptuous ways. While I won't deny there are people who react horribly towards disagreement, there's certainly a mental toll to reading good meanings presented toxically (even collateral, if one isn't the target).

It's probably even worse than wrong things presented horribly honestly, because it creates internal conflict for readers.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I have to admit, on some level... I'm kind of hoping the project Sakurai's been working on is not Smash.

I love the series, I'd love for a sequel to be announced soon, and his stewardship over the IP has been critical for making it successful. But his entire video series has demonstrated just incredibly well the man understands game design and I'd like to see that utilized for something that isn't SSB again. His creation and early work as Kirby allowed it to be strong right out the gate and he pulled off an impressive (albeit flawed due to control scheme) modern sequel with Kid Icarus Uprising. Imagine what that kind of talent could do with a DK, Star Fox, or even another Kid Icarus. Heck the things he could do with an original IP could potentially be even more impactful depending on the genre.

As much as the next Smash could use him, the wider gaming landscape could use him even more.

 

[Quillion]

I have to admit, on some level... I'm kind of hoping the project Sakurai's been working on is not Smash.

I love the series, I'd love for a sequel to be announced soon, and his stewardship over the IP has been critical for making it successful. But his entire video series has demonstrated just incredibly well the man understands game design and I'd like to see that utilized for something that isn't SSB again. His creation and early work as Kirby allowed it to be strong right out the gate and he pulled off an impressive (albeit flawed due to control scheme) modern sequel with Kid Icarus Uprising. Imagine what that kind of talent could do with a DK, Star Fox, or even another Kid Icarus. Heck the things he could do with an original IP could potentially be even more impactful depending on the genre.

As much as the next Smash could use him, the wider gaming landscape could use him even more.

It'd be a win-win on all levels. Sakurai can use the opportunity to exercise his talents in new areas, and Smash could definitely use a new perspective. I'd say Smash really needs someone who sees combos and move chaining as compatible with accessibility (as has been proven repeatedly by the Marvel vs. Capcom games and their predecessors) as opposed to Sakurai's equating of accessibility to defense.

There's only so much a singular guiding perspective can do after all. There's a reason why Nobuo Uematsu has now retired from being a main composer (though he will contribute a few stuff here and there still).

 

[UserKev]

Ridley and King K. Rool are the last purely Nintendo newcomers that will have everlasting hype. When we're discussing Nintendo prioritizing hype culture, Nintendo's remaining Allstars will undoubtedly be the least center of hype culture in favor of third party. We won't see peak hype with rich controversy for purely Nintendo own I'Ps for a very long time. Ridley and K. Rool will forever have the greatest run in hype, even rivaling third party.

 

[TheZizz]

Tap-jump has its uses. It makes things like frame-perfect full-hop into up-air more practical and energy-efficient. It also better acclimates you to official Nintendo-sponsored tournaments as well as Super Smash Bros. Melee.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I think people do somewhat exaggerate the differences in mentality between 1P and 3P picks. Every newcomer in Ult except maybe Richter falls somewhere in this 3-way venn diagram

1. Generally iconic (Daisy, Piranha Plant, Isabelle, Inkling, Ken, Sephiroth, Terry, Steve, Kazuya, Sora; Snake and Squirtle as part of EIH)
2. Popular with Smash fans (K. Rool, Ridley, Dark Samus, Chrom, Pythra, Inkling, Simon, Banjo, Steve, Sora, EIH)
3. In the modern zeitgeist (Incineroar, Byleth, Isabelle, Pythra, Inkling, Min Min, Joker, Sephiroth, Steve, Sora, a good few others depending on your definition of "zeitgeist")

The mentality is the same all around - 3Ps catch a wider net, sure, but 1Ps and 1P-adjacent characters (like Banjo, Simon) are chosen to catch a net and get "grown man crying" hype moments in the exact same way, just on a smaller scale.

I used to think "oh, Smash used to have good newcomers, but then it fell off", but looking at the Smash roster history more, unfortunately, Smash was never punk-rock, even in the age of Jigglypuff and Ice Climbers, cool characters like those were always treated as "outliers" and many of the "out-there" picks aren't that out-there with some kind of peripheral context (Game & Watch Gallery was still an active franchise when Mr. G&W was added for instance). Sakurai's YouTube channel is pretty eye-opening because he's VERY transparent about only making games for others and not himself, and not really even being that passionate about game dev.

 

[Eremurus]

Smash is boring.

 

[Laniv]

I'm recently boarded on the Oatchi for Smash train, and I don't think he's as safe as people say he is.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

I think people do somewhat exaggerate the differences in mentality between 1P and 3P picks. Every newcomer in Ult except maybe Richter falls somewhere in this 3-way venn diagram

1. Generally iconic (Daisy, Piranha Plant, Isabelle, Inkling, Ken, Sephiroth, Terry, Steve, Kazuya, Sora; Snake and Squirtle as part of EIH)
2. Popular with Smash fans (K. Rool, Ridley, Dark Samus, Chrom, Pythra, Inkling, Simon, Banjo, Steve, Sora, EIH)
3. In the modern zeitgeist (Incineroar, Byleth, Isabelle, Pythra, Inkling, Min Min, Joker, Sephiroth, Steve, Sora, a good few others depending on your definition of "zeitgeist")

The mentality is the same all around - 3Ps catch a wider net, sure, but 1Ps and 1P-adjacent characters (like Banjo, Simon) are chosen to catch a net and get "grown man crying" hype moments in the exact same way, just on a smaller scale.

I used to think "oh, Smash used to have good newcomers, but then it fell off", but looking at the Smash roster history more, unfortunately, Smash was never punk-rock, even in the age of Jigglypuff and Ice Climbers, cool characters like those were always treated as "outliers" and many of the "out-there" picks aren't that out-there with some kind of peripheral context (Game & Watch Gallery was still an active franchise when Mr. G&W was added for instance). Sakurai's YouTube channel is pretty eye-opening because he's VERY transparent about only making games for others and not himself, and not really even being that passionate about game dev.

In Brawl's defense, that had a pretty sensible selection of new fighters. But I guess you're right about Smash traditionally having a couple of awkward inclusions that don't always make sense. It's just that people keep expecting more and more. Times change, people change... and yet Smash almost completely hasn't. Which... thinking about it now, might be one of Smash's main problems. It's been marketing itself as this big hype cycle as of late, yet it's fundamentally been the same for years. Eventually, that's going to lose traction.

 

[fogbadge]

I'm recently boarded on the Oatchi for Smash train, and I don't think he's as safe as people say he is.

he’s not but I think we overestimate most characters

 

[UserKev]

Smash is boring.

I think I can get what you mean. Last I played Ultimate, I could find myself eventually lost of interest. And well, bored. It seems everything I played, finding a character I actually want to play really just take the enjoyment out of it.The roster size is unfun. The stage select is saved by the random button. Ultimate seems to get everything right in what it wants to do but miserably falls flat.

 

[Louie G.]

I'm recently boarded on the Oatchi for Smash train, and I don't think he's as safe as people say he is.

I think it's still a question mark as to whether Sakurai feels it's necessary to represent Pikmin with more than one character. I typically don't like to give too much credibility to this argument, I've argued against it for say... Animal Crossing, or Splatoon which is even more ridiculous. But Olimar is something of a special case where his moveset is so specialized to represent a very abstract, specific gameplay approach. Through him you technically have everything you need to get the idea of Pikmin across and it's not the kind of moveset you want to rehash too much. Kinda how I feel about Min-Min and ARMS, too.

Oatchi makes a lot of sense on paper for a few reasons - Pikmin is one of the series with the most significant Switch-era growth among Nintendo's heavy hitters, Oatchi is one of the more prominent and popular Nintendo mascots created in the last console generation. The series has had a couple entries since Olimar's initial inclusion and his moveset might not be able to tackle many of the new ideas and Pikmin types that have since been introduced. So that opening exists for Oatchi and I do think it's a fairly likely opening to be filled... but it boils down to how much Sakurai thinks he can diversify the basic idea surrounding a Pikmin moveset. They're not gonna add Oatchi if he's just a bigger Olimar who can ram into you.

That's why that moveset that was posted a couple weeks back grabbed so many people's attention I think, because it swayed many into understanding a way that Oatchi can be added to Smash and genuinely bring something fresh and exciting. If that's the mindset that Sakurai and the team end up adopting then I think he has a very strong shot. But if they still feel Pikmin doesn't offer a whole lot of potential outside Olimar's general concept, it's plausible that we just stay there too. Oatchi could very well be an Assist Trophy or something, and they can call it a day. I'd really like to see some of the Switch era's biggest winners like Pikmin and Splatoon make the jump over to being "multi rep" series. But with Pikmin I see the argument for why it might not.

So Oatchi is like a pure 50/50 candidate in my eyes then.

 

[MasterCheef]

These characters do NOT get anywhere near as much ( love & support ) as they deserve.

Tabuu
Vault Boy
Master Chief & Arbiter ( Halo )
( Ahri & Lux ) - League of Legends , via Riot Games
Yumia ( Ryza = Alt ) = Atelier , via , Koei Tecmo

 

[fogbadge]

These characters do NOT get anywhere near as much ( love & support ) as they deserve.

Tabuu
Vault Boy
Master Chief & Arbiter ( Halo )
( Ahri & Lux ) - League of Legends , via Riot Games
Yumia ( Ryza = Alt ) = Atelier , via , Koei Tecmo

basically the characters you love

 

[Perkilator]

I may love Dixie Kong as much as the next guy, but having her moveset revolve entirely around the Animal Buddies would honestly feel forced. It’s like a perfect example of the “two Flickies syndrome” that was talked about earlier in this thread.

I alsofind it kind of hypocritical that people say Dixie can be 100% unique, and yet Funky Kong can only be an Echo. Like, no offense to any Dixie supporters, but that just reeks of bias to me.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I also find it kind of hypocritical that people say Dixie can be 100% unique, and yet Funky Kong can only be an Echo. Like, no offense to any Dixie supporters, but that just reeks of bias to me.

Funky Kong I'm guessing being put as an Echo keeps being due sharing same general design as DK since his inception, but I gotta agree. I dunno if I want to deal with a Yellow Peach-fashion inclusion again like Daisy's in Ultimate.

Funky is an odd beast though - like I could see him as a fighter if there was some kind of interest on top of most likely being the flashiest, gadget-heaviest of the Kongs.
Still I feel like he'd be better coming after we got Cranky Kong and Dixie Kong. In fact, I'm surprised by how just underrated Cranky is among the entire Smash's fanbase despite having as much seniority in Nintendo's history as Mario.

The high possibility for playable old veteran inspired by likes of Slappy Squirrel in means of throwback-style parodies in his moveset, keeps me coming back on Cranky so often.

I may love Dixie Kong as much as the next guy, but having her moveset revolve entirely around the Animal Buddies would honestly feel forced. It’s like a perfect example of the “two Flickies syndrome” that was talked about earlier in this thread.

Animal Buddies does feel very stretched for someone like Dixie, and doesn't really represent her trademark traits at all. I feel like they should be an Assist Trophy instead, either doing better AI-based chasing than Gogoat with collision to stand on them.

I remember exploring Dixie Kong actually being joined by Kiddy Kong for a duo moveset to bolster her bit higher from merely being a semiclone, and harkening back to the duo techniques as used in Country-games throughout.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Rambi should be playable.

 

[SharkLord]

Funky Kong I'm guessing being put as an Echo keeps being due sharing same general design as DK since his inception, but I gotta agree. I dunno if I want to deal with a Yellow Peach-situation again with Daisy's inclusion in Ultimate again.

Funky is an odd beast though - I could see him as a fighter if there was some kind of interest on top of most likely being the flashiest, gadget-heaviest of the Kongs.

Still I feel like he'd be better coming after we got Cranky Kong and Dixie Kong. In fact, I'm surprised by how just underrated Cranky is among the entire Smash's fanbase despite having as much seniority in Nintendo's history as Mario.

The high possibility for playable old veteran inspired by likes of Slappy Squirrel in means of throwback-style parodies in his moveset, keeps being what makes me come back to Cranky so often.



Animal Buddies does feel very stretched for someone like Dixie, and doesn't really represent her trademark traits at all. I feel like they should be an Assist Trophy instead, either doing better AI-based chasing than Gogoat with collision to stand on them.

I remember exploring Dixie Kong actually being joined by Kiddy Kong for a duo moveset to bolster her bit higher from merely being a semiclone, and harkening back to the duo techniques as used in Country-games throughout.

With Funky Kong, it also helps that in Tropical Freeze, he's more or less a clone of DK, with aspects of the other Kongs granted through a couple surfboard moves. From what I've seen you could definitely spin something out of the surfboard and gadgets he sells, but it doesn't seem that jarring the make him an Echo with some tweaked animations

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The issue with Dixie and Funky is that to a degree their popularity is coming (somewhat) from two different places. She has the bulk of her support and strongest push towards a non-clone moveset being done by hardcore DKC fans; a fandom largely wanting her inclusion and more significant representation of the Country series in Smash. That group certainly digs Funky as well, but he's typically less of a priority in comparison to her or Cranky and as a result him as an echo or semi-clone doesn't feel as egregious. He's been a playable character in a mainline game once (and a port at that) and given that the latter largely has him inspired by other characters, a moveset similar to DK himself seems fine.

However, Funky specifically has a push from those more familiar with him from something like Mario Kart Wii and the subsequent DLC in MK8 Deluxe. From that perspective it makes complete sense for a character with such a distinct look to maybe have fairly original moves for a Smash appearance. Such people don't necessarily dislike Dixie and even would enjoy having her in SSB too but are more often than not the ones inclined to see her as a clone/echo of Diddy being wholly fair for her. The broader desire to have more of what makes Donkey Kong Country distinct in Smash is not as much of a priority so there's generally a more open attitude to a fighter concept of "Diddy with variations."

It's the same contrast in attitude that ironically makes certain DKC fans lesser enthused towards a Dixie/Kiddy team fighter (even putting aside the fandom's lukewarm views towards Kiddy); viewing the idea as a more of benefit to him to the point of potentially limiting the more interesting ideas Dixie could have if she weren't tethered to him.

 

[Eremurus]

I think I can get what you mean. Last I played Ultimate, I could find myself eventually lost of interest. And well, bored. It seems everything I played, finding a character I actually want to play really just take the enjoyment out of it.The roster size is unfun. The stage select is saved by the random button. Ultimate seems to get everything right in what it wants to do but miserably falls flat.

It has not changed for over 20 years. The same formula, getting progressively more stale and more linear as time went on. Ultimate is really just very unfun. It doesn't have any spark to it that the other games had.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

If 90+ character rosters were the norm for fighting games, I doubt that many people would be calling Smash Ultimate's roster even good, let alone great. Even putting aside my niche takes on "meme picks", side characters, Banjo, e.t.c. that few share; it's very obviously unfocused and lacking a direction (particularly in regards to Nintendo vs. 3P, but a lot of other aspects as well), which would be a lot more glaring if there were other games of its scope and prestiege with their own ways of handling rosters.

 

[Eremurus]

If 90+ character rosters were the norm for fighting games, I doubt that many people would be calling Smash Ultimate's roster even good, let alone great. Even putting aside my niche takes on "meme picks", side characters, Banjo, e.t.c. that few share; it's very obviously unfocused and lacking a direction (particularly in regards to Nintendo vs. 3P, but a lot of other aspects as well), which would be a lot more glaring if there were other games of its scope and prestiege with their own ways of handling rosters.

Ultimate has 90 characters sure but 70 of them feel the same. Run in short hop nair on shield. Same neutral. Same thing. Boring.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Ridley and King K. Rool are the last purely Nintendo newcomers that will have everlasting hype. When we're discussing Nintendo prioritizing hype culture, Nintendo's remaining Allstars will undoubtedly be the least center of hype culture in favor of third party. We won't see peak hype with rich controversy for purely Nintendo own I'Ps for a very long time. Ridley and K. Rool will forever have the greatest run in hype, even rivaling third party.

Let's not pretend that this is just some sort of first party exclusive issue. Most third parties after Ridley and K. Rool didn't have "everlasting" hype either. Only Steve, Zora, and for Japan specifically, Hero, were comparable to Ridley and K. Rool hype. Yes the other third parties had plenty of fans, but they weren't sources of "everlasting" hype either.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

If 90+ character rosters were the norm for fighting games, I doubt that many people would be calling Smash Ultimate's roster even good, let alone great. Even putting aside my niche takes on "meme picks", side characters, Banjo, e.t.c. that few share; it's very obviously unfocused and lacking a direction (particularly in regards to Nintendo vs. 3P, but a lot of other aspects as well), which would be a lot more glaring if there were other games of its scope and prestiege with their own ways of handling rosters.

Oh, is that why people sing the praises of Ultimate's roster? That's ironic, because out of the 90 or so characters included in Smash, only about 10% are of any interest to me, and I regularly play as even an even lower percentage of that. In fact, quite a few multiplayer titles on the Switch alone offer more characters I want to use than Smash Bros. That selection includes 8 Deluxe, which is already saddled with its version of egregious roster bloat.

Like I said, Smash hasn't exactly changed its requirements for inclusion since Brawl, which was over 15 years ago. And that's been causing more issues over time. The only theoretical difference from after the Brawl days is for DLC characters, which is where the guest inclusion rate exploded. But it makes me curious about a timeline where the Wii could process DLC, which was impossible because of the way it read discs, IIRC. If that wasn't the case, and if Brawl had a chance to offer DLC, I almost wonder if Sakurai would've broken the patterns people expected for guests long before Cloud broke the floodgates. I think in that hypothetical context, nothing would have changed for over 15 years.

 

[UserKev]

Ultimate has 90 characters sure but 70 of them feel the same. Run in short hop nair on shield. Same neutral. Same thing. Boring.

Yeah. It seems Smash oversaturated it's self nowadays. We'll all be very hype once the next game is announced but it certainly won't last long anymore.

Let's not pretend that this is just some sort of first party exclusive issue. Most third parties after Ridley and K. Rool didn't have "everlasting" hype either. Only Steve, Zora, and for Japan specifically, Hero, were comparable to Ridley and K. Rool hype. Yes the other third parties had plenty of fans, but they weren't sources of "everlasting" hype either.

I addressed this? Third party have way more potential for near pop cultural hype in comparison to Nintendo's D listers, Not in a literal sense! Crash is shaping up to be the next central of topic. While incredibly out of left field, Scorpion would bring Ridley level controversy.

Scorpion is the next big dream and a literal cope like Ridley was. He's currently the final left field pick that appeals to dream levels of legitimacy. Ridley broke this for first party.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I don't think a new "big speculation character" is really a possible scenario in the modern age of Smash. A lot of divides have either intensified or developed following the time when Rool/Banjo/Ridley/Sonic/Geno came to prominence:

1. 1P/3P divide (The "must be associated with Nintendo" fan rule continually being dragged through dirt, brand loyalty becoming a modern gaming taboo)
2. International divide (Easier internet communication and Nintendo/Smash's increasing profile outside of JP/NA)
3. Nintendo era divide (The SNES and N64 could've occured in a single person's teenhood, and most NES games transitioned to SNES - now there's way more generations of Nintendo fans and IPs that have come and go, not to mention that Nintendo's shift from edgy exploding-fat-guy marketing to "wholesome" families-on-couches marketing has turned a fandom that once gravitated towards edgy characters like Ridley/Geno into one that gravitates towards lighthearted characters like Isabelle or Waluigi)
4. Era and sub-series divides within a single series (Wario Land vs. Ware, Bandee vs. Adeleine, e.t.c.)
5. A generally wider overton window for character picks, both 1P and 3P
6. Less centralisation of Smash discourse, a lot of it being private on sites like Discord or flooded within random Twitter posts.

The closest there really is left is... maybe Waluigi? But Waluigi is kinda like a bizarro-world equivalent to characters like Banjo or Geno, most of his popularity comes from "normies" and a lot of more die-hand fans in the forum/Discord echo chamber seem to not be aware of how just far-reaching his popularity goes.

 

[UserKev]

I agree that Waluigi is the closest. Yeah. It's him. His request seems established enough in the right places. I feel his reveal trailer will make or break him tho. Waluigi will need a internet breaking reveal trailer that transcends even his addition to the roster. He needs to be remembered for his trailer alone that will give him unique authency.

 

[Ze Diglett]

The closest there really is left is... maybe Waluigi? But Waluigi is kinda like a bizarro-world equivalent to characters like Banjo or Geno, most of his popularity comes from "normies" and a lot of more die-hand fans in the forum/Discord echo chamber seem to not be aware of how just far-reaching his popularity goes.

I think anyone who's been exposed to the band kid demographic in the past 10 years is painfully aware of how mainstream Waluigi is.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

The closest there really is left is... maybe Waluigi? But Waluigi is kinda like a bizarro-world equivalent to characters like Banjo or Geno, most of his popularity comes from "normies" and a lot of more die-hand fans in the forum/Discord echo chamber seem to not be aware of how just far-reaching his popularity goes.

I think anyone who's been exposed to the band kid demographic in the past 10 years is painfully aware of how mainstream Waluigi is.

Pretty much. The highest amount of build-up for a character by this point that has hardly gone unnoticed all the way since Brawl.
That alone makes Waluigi might be only "fan-favorite" character that'd be notable enough to make for a memorable addition via catharsis alone from 1st-party side.

It's such a stinking shame that after him, it kinda feels like we're probably not gonna get anymore Nintendo-characters requested for as long, or even longer, than him.
A lot of time I've been pondering will the general hype from SSB6's side on 3rd Parties be mainly from Indie games getting even more bigger attention and "victories" in means of being part of Smash, with possible inclusions like Sans or Reimu Hakurei.

__

That does make me wonder about my following current belief: I'm genuinely feeling that 1st to 2nd Party additions long requested from older generations like Toad, Dixie Kong, Bandanna Dee and C/D-listers of Nintendo have become the new norm of low to none to be entertained on the roster next to 3rd Parties - basically an inversion of how things used to be way back in Brawl-era.

Some might interject this with us still having good chances with both B-Dee or Dixie. Yet I can't help feeling the more times keep changing as it goes on with this series, with the demographics' expectations or nature changing with every game that these characters have not been allowed to board the train on (Ultimate, but SSB4 even moreso) - the more lacking in relevancy or worth of inclusion they seem to become next to more hype-inducing, history-writing 3rd-party based clashes with Nintendo's biggest icons.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

As a series that has a core philosophy of "everyone can play together regardless of skill", Smash should really embrace optional player-tied handicap functions, (deeper than "start the battle with 50 damage" or "start the battle with an extra stock") with no stipulations, essentially spirit/sticker boosts without having to unlock or balance out anything. Smash Remix has a decent but imperfect take on this (I could go in more depth if any of you are interested). Everyone would benefit from that - for players of an equal skill gap, it's essentially just a more complex Special Smash; for single players, you can make your own CPU challenges; for competitive players, it would allow moveset and general game design to be more skill-based and not have RNG/comeback mechanics infest areas where it isn't welcom; and the benefit to players of ineven skill gaps should be obvious.

 

[SharkLord]

Pretty much. The highest amount of build-up for a character by this point that has hardly gone unnoticed all the way since Brawl.
That alone makes Waluigi might be only "fan-favorite" character that'd be notable enough to make for a memorable addition via catharsis alone from 1st-party side.

It's such a stinking shame that after him, it kinda feels like we're probably not gonna get anymore Nintendo-characters requested for as long, or even longer, than him.
A lot of time I've been pondering will the general hype from SSB6's side on 3rd Parties be mainly from Indie games getting even more bigger attention and "victories" in means of being part of Smash, with possible inclusions like Sans or Reimu Hakurei.

__

That does make me wonder about my following current belief: I'm genuinely feeling that 1st to 2nd Party additions long requested from older generations like Toad, Dixie Kong, Bandanna Dee and C/D-listers of Nintendo have become the new norm of low to none to be entertained on the roster next to 3rd Parties - basically an inversion of how things used to be way back in Brawl-era.

Some might interject this with us still having goof chances with both B-Dee or Dixie - I'm feeling that the more times change alongside the demographics' expectations or nature with every game they've not been allowed to board the train on (Ultimate, but SSB4 even moreso) - the more lacking in relevancy or worth of inclusion they seem to become next to more hype-inducing, history-writing 3rd-party based clashes with Nintendo's biggest icons.

I think we'll have to wait and see on the next game's priorities. Ultimate was an oddball in the series, focusing on veterans first and what little newcomers it could squeeze in were mainly popular ballot votes. In comparison, past Smash games had some retro picks, but for the most part were biased towards whoever was active on the current consoles (Plus a bit of the previous console's later years); They also had significantly more new stages in the base game, furthering that current-gen slant.

That said, while Ultimate had enough third-parties to fill an Eight-Player Smash for the first time, it was still primarily a Nintendo-centric game, with nine out of eleven newcomers being first-party. It's only during the DLC cycle that they focused on big name third-parties. It's also worth noting that third-parties will probably want a bigger piece of the pie if their character's in the game on launch; If they're just selling a piece of the DLC, that's less of the profits you'll have to share with them. Also also, there's no guarantee the next Smash will bring back every single third-party, be it from licensing fees or only having enough time or budget for so many fighters; In this case, third-party newcomers might have to share priorities with third-party veterans, limiting the amount of third-parties they can add overall.

So, Smash 6 could see a continued focus on third-parties, yes. But I think it's equally likely, if not moreso, that the base game will be more in line with Brawl and 4's approach, with the bulk of the third-parties being saved for the DLC. But again, we don't know for certain, since they haven't even announced a new Smash yet. So we'll have to see.

 

[UserKev]

Interestingly, Skull Kid had a very controversy wave at the peak of Ultimate speculation. Maybe speculation will gravitate towards him again after Waluigi.

 

[Dinoman96]

Interestingly, Skull Kid had a very controversy wave at the peak of Ultimate speculation. Maybe speculation will gravitate towards him again after Waluigi.

I'm pretty sure that was because he had, at the time, a seemingly legimitate insider backing him up (lozkid). But once he turned out to be full of it, a lot of the hype surrounding Skull Kid iirc had plummeted pretty hard before finally being deconfirmed as an AT yet again in the November Direct.

 

[MasterCheef]

As a series that has a core philosophy of "everyone can play together regardless of skill", Smash should really embrace optional player-tied handicap functions,

There is a solution for this called ; Mini Games
This would attract casuals who would otherwise be overwhelmed by regular game-play
1 = ( Obstacle & Maze races ) , 2 = Volleyball , 3 = Mini-Golf

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm pretty sure that was because he had, at the time, a seemingly legimitate insider backing him up (lozkid). But once he turned out to be full of it, a lot of the hype surrounding Skull Kid iirc had plummeted pretty hard before finally being deconfirmed as an AT yet again in the November Direct.

Yeah, that situation was a great example of character support becoming visible when it's clear they have a decent shot.

There are a lot of popular characters that don't get discussed much because they're seen as unlikely and Skull Kid and Midna are the poster children of that.

 

[Lenidem]

Yeah, that situation was a great example of character support becoming visible when it's clear they have a decent shot.

There are a lot of popular characters that don't get discussed much because they're seen as unlikely and Skull Kid and Midna are the poster children of that.

It's true that Skull Kid seemed likely back then. Even if you forget this so-called leaker and the (ridiculously funny) chair theory, Majora's Mask 3D was still pretty new at the time, the Moon assist had been shown without Skull Kid himself, and the fact that they kept Young Link's Final Smash hidden for so long really felt like they were saving Fierce Deity-Link for something - and what could it be if not for a Skull Kid reveal trailer?

But to assume that he was and still is supported because of his perceived likeliness... that seems like a leap to me. But of course, I am biased, because I want him playable since the pre-Melee area (yes, I am this old).

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

The fact that perception of likelihood within speculation tends to effect fan demand is another of a billion reasons why Smash needs to step away from fan demand.

 

[Dinoman96]

The fact that perception of likelihood within speculation tends to effect fan demand is another of a billion reasons why Smash needs to step away from fan demand.

It's interesting to think that K. Rool was like the one character exempt from that: he didn't have any recent big new game appearances, he didn't have Sakurai or some other spokesperson say "yeah it'd be cool" (i.e Geno or even Banjo-Kazooie), he didn't even have some faulty insider saying "yeah he's in". All he had was the sheer will of his fanbase mass voting for him on the Smash ballot.

Of the characters that have actually made it into the game, Ridley is probably the only other character that comes close tbh.

 

[UserKev]

I actually am in no favor of Skull Kid making it in but he's impressively specially prioritized and long established. Ridley's hype plummeted hard with every deconfirmation, but with every new announcement of next Smash, always picked itself up again. The difference with Ridley, is extremely recurring to his home series. But Skull Kid does have something going for him AFTER! Waluigi. Fans will favorably rally behind him when there's no other big names left.