Under Construction (FAQ + Q&A)

[-Ran]

The issue with Delfino for most characters is that it has periods during the transformation where the ceiling is much, much shorter than it would normally be. I've scored up tilt kills at 80% during transition periods to new stage segments. Also, for Rob the inclusion of water in the stage doesn't really help his cause. From playing with Sudai back in the day, I'm well aware of how great Rob is off the edge, and how much weaker he becomes without them available. In fact, I would say that Delfino actually removes the recovery advantage that Snake has, due to the nature of the stage. Most matches migrate towards the edges/top of the borders due to how the formations are. These lead to KOs that would normally be survived on a traditional stage.

 

[Yung Mei]

how exactly do i do this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNvNaeY9TXo


im pretty sure im doing it wrong because all i do is tap the opposite direction and snake changes direction, but the momentum doesnt change. he pretty much just turns around and thats it

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Sounds like you arent using it when you have enough momentum to begin with. You need to be steadily heading in the one direction in the air before you use this other wise you will just turn around.

 

[Yung Mei]

Sounds like you arent using it when you have enough momentum to begin with. You need to be steadily heading in the one direction in the air before you use this other wise you will just turn around.

so for example, i should "jog"->jump-> tap backwards->B?

 

[Darkshadow7827]

so for example, i should "jog"->jump-> tap backwards->B?

Incorrect. You press B first then right after press backwards. So Run/jog > jump > B > backwards (the direction facing snake's back.) If you do it right, you'll get the result in the video, if you do it wrong, you will either just face backwards with no direction change or you will pull out a nikita. If you can mortar slide you should be able to do this Hope that helps.

 

[Yung Mei]

Incorrect. You press B first then right after press backwards. So Run/jog > jump > B > backwards (the direction facing snake's back.) If you do it right, you'll get the result in the video, if you do it wrong, you will either just face backwards with no direction change or you will pull out a nikita. If you can mortar slide you should be able to do this Hope that helps.

im mindblown right now D:


ill try that and see if i manage to do it

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Do this:

Go to training mode on FD (any stage will work, whatever)

Grab the ledge of the stage. Jump and use Cypher. Make sure you aren't just falling. Make sure you're falling in a certain direction.

Practice this while your falling from Cypher. The key is pressing the opposite direction JUST after you press B. So if your falling to the left you press B and immediately press right. Don't hold the directional buttons either or you will just Nikita.

Once you've gotten the hang of this try using it twice in the air. This technique is invaluable for mixing up your recovery.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Does soft lobbing a nade come with a hitbox?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I'm almost sure it does. It's a weak one but any thrown Grenade has a hitbox and does minor damage when it hits.

 

[Mister Eric]

Thanks a lot Technical_Chase and -Ran =]

Anyone else have something to add? If so, please do! <333

Appreciate it bunches =3

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Portion with the 3 pillar is like a mini japes with extremely lox celings. Snake can kill ROB really easily there with utilt but ROB can be annoying with camping and spike in the water. But Snake can camp decently, prob in ROB's favor there cuz he can camp better and Snake has to approach to get that utilt.

 

[Attila_]

does anyone know:

1. how many frames it takes a nade to blow up after it has been hit?
2. how many frames the nade hitbox is out for?
3. how long the hitbox extends for on shield/hit?

im just wanting to diversify how i link my nades. i think it would be a good way to stop ledging/planking and crap like that.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Once a grenade has been either struck, or lost it's time, the hitbox appears 2 frames later. Anything more than that I cannot find. My random guess is around 5 frames of shieldhitlag. Most attacks are somewhere around that amount of time the powerful it is.

And I don't use snake...

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Eternal Yoshi frame data on the grenades plzzzzzzzz

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

..............

 

[Attila_]

thanks xeylode, thats helpful already. if we assume that they have 3 frames hitboxes (id propose that as a minimum, they seem to last long), plus taking into account they take 2 frames to explode, we can assume that by joining nades we can have active hitboxes for 8 frames. and thats at a minimum. not half bad, eh?

 

[Yung Mei]

okay im still having trouble WaveBouncing >.>


i do it on accident sometimes, but its weird, his momentum shifts one direction, then moves back to where he was wtflol


is there any other character i could use to learn this tactic a little easier, for practice?

 

[Underload]

I guess you could work with Marth's shield breaker or something. Honestly, Snake's wavebounces are some of the easiest.

 

[Yung Mei]

i must suck really bad then D:

ill try shieldbreaker then, thanks :D

 

[I.L.O.]

is there any special way to execute an up tilt? is it all down to practice or is there a specific way? i upstil half the time and upsmash the other half i am haveing alot of trouble with it, even if i spot dodge and keep me anolog stick down (to spotdodge) than up and try an up tilt my success rate is still only about half the time any advice or suggestions?

 

[Luxor]

About the nades. Copypasted from Veril:
•Shieldstun=Sstun=Floor[(damage)/3]
•Shield hitlag=SHL=Floor[(damage/2.6)*E+5]
E=1 for grenades. I don't remember how much damage a nade does, but plug it into these formulas and you'll get the numbers you want.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Gaiz how I wavedash?

 

[Attila_]

About the nades. Copypasted from Veril:
•Shieldstun=Sstun=Floor[(damage)/3]
•Shield hitlag=SHL=Floor[(damage/2.6)*E+5]
E=1 for grenades. I don't remember how much damage a nade does, but plug it into these formulas and you'll get the numbers you want.

hang on, is this a universal formula? where did it come from?

 

[tibs7]

Have you guys got a picture of snakes hurtbox when he utilts?
And how many frames does it take for mortars hitbox to come out not the rocket.

 

[jbandrew]

Can someone please do me a favor and tell me why I'm safe behind a grenade? Or somewhat safe at least :

Diagram of what I'm talking about:

(Snake).

The dot is the nade lol. So I know this is called camping but I really want someone that knows this character well to explain why he's so safe behind it. Thanks.

 

[etecoon]

you're not safe when you're behind a grenade, I can run up and whack you in the face with fair

<3 marf : )

 

[jbandrew]

you're not safe when you're behind a grenade, I can run up and whack you in the face with fair

<3 marf : )

Well Marth is one of the few character's that can successfully pressure Snake in his sheild when he has a nade in front. And even then I can just pick up the nade and throw it at you after you fair.

 

[etecoon]

full hop fair is pretty much 100% safe unless you powershield it and utilt instantaneously, that being said yeah other characters obviously have their own way of doing things. in general I'd say that snake doesn't have a "safe stance", he's not diddy where you can hide behind a banana while holding one and shut down every approach in the game lol, it's all mixups and mindgames and stuff

 

[Underload]

you're not safe when you're behind a grenade, I can run up and whack you in the face with fair

<3 marf : )

(Snake)----.

Better?

 

[etecoon]

retreating too far puts you close to the ledge, marth is lovin it

I already got bored of marth and started playing snake again though ._.

 

[jbandrew]

Well Marth is a different story. Ally loses to Marth's all the time, let's just talk about a different character. A good example as usual would be Metaknight. Now I repeat my question;

Can someone please do me a favor and tell me why I'm safe behind a grenade? Or somewhat safe at least

Diagram of what I'm talking about:

(Snake).

The dot is the nade lol. So I know this is called camping but I really want someone that knows this character well to explain why he's so safe behind it. Thanks.

 

[etecoon]

well, my example may have been specific to marth, but in MY opinion at least, what I said is true of most matchups. there's no one thing you can do and be safe all the time, every defensive stance you have has a weakness, and the options used to exploit that weakness tend to have their own weaknesses, you have to out read your opponent. that being said, standing behind a grenade is helpful because throwing a grenade itself leaves you vulnerable, if you just pull a nade and throw it, the lag is exploitable. having a grenade nearby before throwing another grenade gives you a little protection especially vs grounded hitboxes obviously. an example is that I use MK's dash attack to punish nade pulls sometimes if I get them to pull it at the right spacing because one nade doesn't cover that, but having a nade in front of you makes that not work

 

[jbandrew]

True true. So having a nade helps eliminate the ways they can approach you... because you have a pivot grab that beats all ground approaches. Okay... gotcha, so what CAN you do against marth? lol

 

[Underload]

You have dash attack, I suppose.

 

[AyatoK26]

Is there a reason why nades drop instantly after being thrown a certain distance without hitting anything?

 

[Darkshadow7827]

Is there a reason why nades drop instantly after being thrown a certain distance without hitting anything?

I'm assuming you're playing against a snake? It's called nade stripping. Snake pulls out nade#1, throws it. The act of Snake pulling nade#2 and shield dropping it causes nade#1 to lose all momentum.

 

[Calzorz]

Well Marth is a different story. Ally loses to Marth's all the time, let's just talk about a different character. A good example as usual would be Metaknight. Now I repeat my question;

Can someone please do me a favor and tell me why I'm safe behind a grenade? Or somewhat safe at least

Diagram of what I'm talking about:

(Snake).

The dot is the nade lol. So I know this is called camping but I really want someone that knows this character well to explain why he's so safe behind it. Thanks.

hes not SO SAFE behind it , it just helps u cancel cg's other chars have etc they cant get in to get the grab /lead it to more hits as easy , it also forces chars to wait for the nade to explode before they ground aproach or they are forced to come in from a height and ariel most of the time

so say u have a nade in front of u a d3 runs in and gets the grab the nade SHOULD explode at d3s back and cancel the further % the d3 can wrack up

 

[Attila_]

i think someone who is able should compile a list of characters we can utilt from a dthrow, even if they roll forward (typically dash-->shield-->utilt). playing around, this seems to work on diddy consistently, at least. this basically means that a throw at kill percents can quite easily kill certain characters if they get read.

 

[Excellence]

Has anyone experimented with Z-dropping grenades while falling in the air. I'm not too sure on their fall-speed but if you press Z early on they can be regrabbed and redropped. They also help to stave away attacks in the air. Is there anymore usefulness to this?

Instead of wavebouncing with a Grenade, how useful is dropping C4 as a mixup for an opponent who follows your DI?

 

[-Ran]

Z drop takes too long to complete, and the times you'd want to drop a grenade in the air are the times that you've been knocked up there without a grenade in hand. Dropping C4 also takes too long to be of use unless you're incredibly high up compared to them.