UK player thoughts on how to improve your game; for the UK :)

[Bullet Bill]

I agree with what was said in this post and good job on keeping your focus against Coey cos I know you due tend to lose it sometimes.

I think in this thread that we have identified the majortiy of the problems in the UK but now that we have identified, how do we go about actually improving our personal gameplans and the peoples around us.

I think the first point would be for everyone to somehow have some recording equipment and looking at their own mistakes. That's if your a person who struggles to see the mistakes they make in gameplay and says stuff like 'I couldn't do anything' when you probably could have lol.
Getting countered off the edge by marth (even though in some situation the counter is techable) and then a marth coming down and Fairing you is a situation when you can apply 'I couldn't do anything' lol not getting ***** throughout the match.

Friends around each other should try to give information but it is VERY important that the right information that needs to be given out. Not something that just seems intellectual but won't make much of a difference. As I said before alot of people in the UK have spacing problems, if you find yourself getting sheildgrabbed even a few times in a match that probably means you have bit of spacing problems or sheild pressure
As a fox player I aim to NEVER get sheildgrabbed.

I know I say this quite alot but being technical is a very important factor in the game. All of the top people in the UK have a good level of tech skill, this opens the gates to becoming a smarter and better player.

I think people need to work together in their regions for the improvements as people outside can't do that much unless you post vidoes and then we can all identify the problems of everyone together.

agreed. Nice colours as well

 

[Cpt.Zeppo]

I would see this post as a furthering of Robbys excellent post a few pages ago. I say this because I was concerned before posting that it would be too similar, but I think as opposed to Robbys post which lays foundations to work on, I am going into some of that stuff and metagame-specific things that the UK will benefit from studying.

Ant and Allan both make excellent points IMO. Also agree with Pro that spacing is lacking in the UK, but actually think general essential stuff to the metagame at the moment is inherently scratchy in the community. For example;

Getting out of the tumble animation. This is an assumed skill now as it gives you so many more options as you recover, but still I see so few players get out of it in the UK.

Wavedash fastfall onto the edge. The few frames between your being off the stage and on to the edge can make such a difference.

DI. Self explanatory but so, so important. Read THIS, if you haven't already, and if you have read it again. My DI is only decent with Falcon and at times it is still really bad. Its a very complex thing. Smash DI is essentially moving in the few frames of hitstun of the move, so you have to be quick and know of the various inputs involved. Don't be half-hearted when DI'ing.

Memorizing the lag of moves/other options. Ie. with Falcon you want to knee as fast as possible after you have D-aired. You want to jump in the first available frames out of Peach's uthrow. I practiced all this stuff ages ago, trying to make sure I could combo as quickly as possible. I have never been able to combo as well as I could in tournaments(as opposed to friendlies) but a lot of the hitlag/stun of certain moves etc. is ingrained in my memory and makes all the difference. The best way to get this sort of stuff consistant in your game, is simply play as much as possible, and try to be as quick as you are capable of in reactions, tech- chasing etc. until it becomes natural, and it WILL become natural, just like L-cancelling and wavedashing did .
Learn these things and the timing of fastfalls and combo-ing and tech-chasing will follow almost naturally along with watching and copying good players.

The subject Will(Coey) touched upon is very relevant to all of this too, as the UK outside of the best London players are all **** under pressure (Except Ryan for the huge banter). This is clearly because of lack of events, and some outside factors like the fact Londoners just seem to be so much more competitive than everyone else. Being Clutch is make or break in tournament and has f*cked me over many a time. As much as I agree that the mental side of the game is very over-looked and taking advantage of it will only give you.. an advantage... it is much easier to un-nerve an inexperienced player to a good, well-versed player, to which spamming a certain move will actually just become a weakness and leave you very vulnerable.
One thing the top players always talk about is momentum. Notice when a player gets a stock lead, they take advantage of it by playing extra-defensive and racking up damage. They become more relaxed and feel more in control and this usually results in them playing better.

Understanding the level of your opponent and playing to that respect is also paramount. I know certain players are great against good players but lose to someone not regarded too highly. Craiigg being the best example I can think of. Being good isn't just about beating great players but about sifting through the lesser competition sufficiently as well, and that is a skill in itself!

Thats all I can be bothered writing at the moment. I guarantee if you don't know or are not used to the stuff I outlined, and very few players in the UK are, and some of it I am only appreciating truely now, then you will see huge differences. Along with spacing, lol.

 

[Bullet Bill]

hmmmm a lot of these posts are quite useful. I'm def gonna come back and read some of these again.

Z- the playing under pressure was my point

 

[Gantz ak-47]

hmmmm a lot of these posts are quite useful. I'm def gonna come back and read some of these again.

Z- the playing under pressure was my point

yeah this is alot of help. i think another big factor is underestermating ur opponent. for example i underrestimated chrisboi, and wel...he 4stocked me. i underestimated tamoo and pms and they beat me quite easily with low teir characters: such as stinkin jiggs and effin samus.....joke characters.

 

[Bullet Bill]

Yep, except with me it's always overestimating myself

lol @ the Joke characters comment

 

[ac_anon]

rofl i money match the guy who called samus a joke character, i hope you play fox.

 

[VA]

I call samus a joke character, she sucks and I know it. Her potential is so gimped, watch her fail her way down the tier lists as the only person who knows how to play her properly (HugS) has quit. Maybe I should pioneer her...she's too boring though.

Also Z on the tumble animation. I think it's cancelled by jumping and it serves as a good mindgame against the likes of people who think you can't act during it. I just tumble away and then jump out when I need to. I find it useful to stay in tumble Could be wrong...but I thought cancelling tumble was kind of pointless.

 

[Cpt.Zeppo]

Yeah I remember having this conversation with you before. You wiggle the analogue from side to side. Its aided me on several occassions and I've seen a lot of good players use it to good effect, but I may have exaggerated its usefulness lol.

and Samus is good times

 

[ac_anon]

im fairly sure samus hasnt moved down the tier list in quite some time, and IMO its far more fun to try and play and impove a character you like than to simply got "lol they are crap, I will go with the character who has a great proven record."

As you said HugS played samus correctly, therefore it is the players rather than the character that are the problem, so saying you know samus is **** is almost like you are admitting your own inability to improve her game, so you moved on. Of course you said she is boring which is fair enough unless that is simply a john to casually make it look like you didn't give up on her.

And there is no point in coming back to say your samus is better than mine since that is probably still true and I'm too lazy to do anything about it at present

and I don't find her boring, leave my character alone

Your hat is a joke character

obligatory advice: CC D-smash >>> Fox

 

[VA]

well the point is, no one can play like HugS or figure out how to do the things he does with Samus. She moved down the US tier list I'm pretty sure and if it were updated I guarentee you she'd move down further.

I left her because I also cannot be bothered to improve her, I'd rather learn things that are set in stone not set about innovating a character because that takes a ridiculous amount of time and skill. I probably don't have enough to do that and I'm pretty sure not many people in the UK do. Swizzy is good with ganon but I can see that he'll progress to a point and find it REALLY hard to get much better once he gets to that stage.

Don't get so protective over Samus, it's only a character. I like Marth I think he's awesome but his day in smash is pretty done, I think you can't do much new stuff with him and people have left him behind. But I'm not going to QQ about it.

 

[Gantz ak-47]

well the point is, no one can play like HugS or figure out how to do the things he does with Samus. She moved down the US tier list I'm pretty sure and if it were updated I guarentee you she'd move down further.

I left her because I also cannot be bothered to improve her, I'd rather learn things that are set in stone not set about innovating a character because that takes a ridiculous amount of time and skill. I probably don't have enough to do that and I'm pretty sure not many people in the UK do. Swizzy is good with ganon but I can see that he'll progress to a point and find it REALLY hard to get much better once he gets to that stage.

Don't get so protective over Samus, it's only a character. I like Marth I think he's awesome but his day in smash is pretty done, I think you can't do much new stuff with him and people have left him behind. But I'm not going to QQ about it.

thats one of the sillyest things i've heard in a while. i expected better V.A. imo no chareter has been played to there fool potential. the fact of the matter is Marth is still amazing and theres still alot to be dicoverd, but dont take my word for it.. play chrisboi, edwin, or frostbyte then you will see. plus samus is a really good charecter. if you have profs tech skill and fuzz's brain you can be good with anyone.

 

[VA]

I'm not responding to this as it's patently stupid. I doubt you can read.

What i will say though is that my words are too harsh and I didn't mean marth or Samus are **** useless characters. Make of that what you will.

 

[gm jack]

Bit off the main topic here, but I've recently tried to get back into melee, just as a side to brawl in case I fancy a change of pace. There is nobody close to me that I can just go to to teach me again (will try and contact a guy in the nearest town who should be interested), so what are the key skills I should focus on for brawl which I can teach myself vs the low level CPUs?

I've decided to keep my brawl main of Sheik in melee (who I seem to remember hauls *** in melee) so any specific techniques would be appreciated. I'm working on consistent wavedashing and L cancelling (you hit just before you land, correct?), and am also getting into turnaround needles and comboing, which is actually fairly similar to her brawl combos, but with less strict timing, and Fair is a pretty good killer).

Any advice?

 

[Kone]

You live in reading? craiigg lives there and is pretty decent (as much as you will be needing at the moment). He can teach you all you need. Also, jam (top 5 in uk) is currently living in reading (and is friends/plays with craiigg a lot). You have access to two very good players.

Id send craiigg a pm.

 

[gm jack]

You live in reading? craiigg lives there and is pretty decent (as much as you will be needing at the moment). He can teach you all you need. Also, jam (top 5 in uk) is currently living in reading (and is friends/plays with craiigg a lot). You have access to two very good players.

Id send craiigg a pm.

He was the guy I was going to talk to.

 

[Bullet Bill]

much love for samus

Anon- if we ever meet at a tourney again would you be up for teaming again? XD

 

[Gantz ak-47]

I'm not responding to this as it's patently stupid. I doubt you can read.

What i will say though is that my words are too harsh and I didn't mean marth or Samus are **** useless characters. Make of that what you will.

your a waste

 

[Professor Pro]

if you have profs tech skill and fuzz's brain you can be good with anyone.

I have to 100% agree with this statement.
If this was possible then every character would move 2 places up on the tier list (even though it would mean that everyone would stay in the same place) but we would change the metagame of every character. I can do it right now with any character anyone names.
If you name Kirby I will have him in 7th place on the tier list in about 5 days.

your a waste

loooooooooool.
I just laughed at the way you responded to his comment with that.
Mostly cos I know wot you sound like when you say it in real life lool.

 

[VA]

lol you can't just do that with any character, it would be cool if you could though.

 

[Bullet Bill]

I have to 100% agree with this statement.
If this was possible then every character would move 2 places up on the tier list (even though it would mean that everyone would stay in the same place) but we would change the metagame of every character. I can do it right now with any character anyone names.
If you name Kirby I will have him in 7th place on the tier list in about 5 days.



loooooooooool.
I just laughed at the way you responded to his comment with that.
Mostly cos I know wot you sound like when you say it in real life lool.

Do it with Doc

 

[Professor Pro]

lol you can't just do that with any character, it would be cool if you could though.

I can, have you seen my tech skill as Gantz said and plus my BRAINSSSS!!!

Do it with Doc

I would do it with doc but I know it would benefit you so I won't lol

 

[Professor Pro]

I heard Fuzzyness got 13th at the tournament so it seems he did pretty well.

 

[Kone]

Why can't the UK compete in Europe....

I think that this is appropriate for this thread and dicussion is needed around the topic . These are the results from the last three major european tournaments;

SMACK
-------
: Armada
2: Zgetto
3: Amsah
4: A-D (Adam)
5: Remen
5: Poilon
7: Tonberry
7: Faab
9: Luma *
9: Kirby Squad
9: FlikkFlakk
9: Aldwyn
13: Chrisboi
13: Neutroni
13: Salepate
13: GOAT
17: Captain Jadde
17: Baxon
17: Efen
17: Fuzzyness
17: Pasi (BrokenBone) *
17: Linkje
17: Smasher89
17: Ice

ESA3
-----
1.Armada
2.Amsah
3.Strawhat
4.Zgetto
5.Infernum
5.Adam
7.Polion
7. Makenshi
9.Over
9.K-12
9.Kjab
9.Ice

TSL4
---------
1 Amsah
2 Overtriforce
3 Poilon
4 Zgetto
5 Makenshi
5 Faab
7 Inf
7 Ice

---------------
Supposedly charles got 13th or so at TSL4. Obviously at the moment that isn't 100% accurate but from what people are saying and info from twitter updates it seems likely. Personally I was quite looking forward to seeing charles doing well at this tournament. 13th isn't not doing well (i couldnt ever get that) and we don't know who he lost to but I think charles may have been hoping for more? (he has talked a big game recently).

My point of this post is that looking at the previous large euro tourneys (and if we go back further we see similar results) the UK doesn't perform as well as other european countries. Our top playes have never broken the top ten at such a tournament and yet we are the second oldest european smash community (after holland) and significantly outdate the likes of spain and germany YET their top players (over, strawhat, k-12, kjab, ice, luma etc) all make up europeans top ten.

I ask our community why? what can we do to change this? Ive got a few ideas but would like to see waht other people come up with before influencing the conversation down a few paths to early on.


Discuss!


edit- im aware no brits made esa3, however, it serves to illustrate how proportionately other countries best do vs each other.

 

[Bullet Bill]

I think all the reasons why the UK is poor compared to other european countries are obvious

 

[Kone]

Obvious how so? id like to hear your thoughts as either they'll be signficantly wrong or very appropriate for this discussion.

Just saying; 'other countries have better players' doesn't constitute an answers, as, that is the point of this discussion; to determine why.

 

[Charlie G]

I guess because apart from London, we don't really have anywhere that takes the game seriously enough to challenge at European level, ie, regular ranbats, serious competition- everyone I know just plays the game for fun

And although London is undoubtedly a competitive area, although Britain has been playing smash for a long time, 'London as serious' hasn't been in place for a long as the other countries have been competing on a serious level- charles & prof, for example, may be not at a top european standard yet, but they're evidently still improving

It's not that Britain is fundamentally less talented, it's just that the talented players (jam, Z etc) have had less opportunity to develop their skills to a higher level

 

[Bullet Bill]

you can write a fairly big list

1. not enough players overall
2. Not enough nationwide tournaments
3. too many many people flaking tournaments
3. not enough people motivated enough to improve signifcantly
4. For a lot of players there's harly anyone near enough to play if anyone at all
5. not many people willing to host tournaments and house people
6. Travel is expensive in the UK and a lot of the players don't have all that much money to pay for it
7. A lot of players are too content with being 'good' and not trying to improve because they think it won't happen
8. A lot of good players in the UK have either quit or become inactive, new players have come but they need time fro their skill level to be brought up
9. Not enough V.A.s and professor Pros

I'll stop there

 

[Kone]

The list you have given is very good (can be expanded on in fact) as general list as to why communities could suffer. However, it has no evidence, makes huge generalisations and worst of all implies that the rest of europe does all 9 or the majority of them. I think that you would fine that this is not true :/

I do like your list and in fact relates a lot to the main thread title, as such, we could atually go through them one by one in more depth as a means to improve our current community size/strength/scene. This actually does give answers to, id say, 50% of my question; 'why can't the uk compete in europe' as a means for us to attempt to get better. I don't think it generally does a overall good job in answering as to why we do so bad though :/

I think we should go down two routes. One to think about why we do so poorly and the other to work out how the UK can try improve as quickly as possible. On the latter, may I suggest the UK circuit idea again? not so much in terms of a implemented/rolling over ranking system but a means to already have planned the next 2/3 or so tournaments in 09/10. I think the last time we did this the UK had plenty of tournaments and we did , as a scene, improve quickly.

However, who would host a tournament. No one since SHS1 has stepped up yet ;_;


Charlie - I agree with your last sentence. I think we have the talent there but as you mention it doesn't have the play time to improve. Thing is I wonder why the other european countries new players improve as such a greater pace? from what ive seen looking on the french boards they dont have more tournaments than us, dont do ranbats and have infrequent smashfests instead. Hmmmm :/

In terms of the London comment London has been very competitive as a scene for sometime now. It is reaping rewards in terms of monopolising the UK tournament results but how do ehy push themselves onto the next level? are they stuck if the rest of the UK are behind them and can't catch up if they aren't in london? what if no one can beat charles? does that cap our scene? is charles improving or being worse of because of the rest of the UK? would he be much better if he was in france or spain?

Lots of questions!

 

[Gantz ak-47]

the problem is obvious as a whole the u.k dosent play enough for us to get to international level. thats not my opinun, its just fact. we dont put in enough time and effort so its hard to get to a international level. fair enough we all have busy lives but at the end of the day you put in what you get out. sorry to be rude but its true.

 

[Kone]

How much time is required to get to international level? it seems to me a lot of the londoners play melee a helluva a lot. What with national tournaments, local london tournaments, ranbats, smashfests and you guys just meeting up weekly or so.

I spent a week staying at amsahs place a year or so back. I can tell you he certainly has a life. I think your comment is a bit vague. Put more effort in can be, or is, one factor. But there is more to it Im guessing.

I do agree that there needs to be a substantial improvement in effort from areas of the community. I know personally ive not attempted to improve my game in some time (something im hoping to change).

 

[Bullet Bill]

The list you have given is very good (can be expanded on in fact) as general list as to why communities could suffer. However, it has no evidence, makes huge generalisations and worst of all implies that the rest of europe does all 9 or the majority of them. I think that you would fine that this is not true :/

I do like your list and in fact relates a lot to the main thread title, as such, we could atually go through them one by one in more depth as a means to improve our current community size/strength/scene. This actually does give answers to, id say, 50% of my question; 'why can't the uk compete in europe' as a means for us to attempt to get better. I don't think it generally does a overall good job in answering as to why we do so bad though :/

I think we should go down two routes. One to think about why we do so poorly and the other to work out how the UK can try improve as quickly as possible. On the latter, may I suggest the UK circuit idea again? not so much in terms of a implemented/rolling over ranking system but a means to already have planned the next 2/3 or so tournaments in 09/10. I think the last time we did this the UK had plenty of tournaments and we did , as a scene, improve quickly.

However, who would host a tournament. No one since SHS1 has stepped up yet ;_;


Charlie - I agree with your last sentence. I think we have the talent there but as you mention it doesn't have the play time to improve. Thing is I wonder why the other european countries new players improve as such a greater pace? from what ive seen looking on the french boards they dont have more tournaments than us, dont do ranbats and have infrequent smashfests instead. Hmmmm :/

In terms of the London comment London has been very competitive as a scene for sometime now. It is reaping rewards in terms of monopolising the UK tournament results but how do ehy push themselves onto the next level? are they stuck if the rest of the UK are behind them and can't catch up if they aren't in london? what if no one can beat charles? does that cap our scene? is charles improving or being worse of because of the rest of the UK? would he be much better if he was in france or spain?

Lots of questions!

Well not that my answers seem to be good enough lol but i'll say again that too many players are too comfortable with how good they already are- i.e. they can but themselves in the top 10 in the UK and are happy with that. Theres still the fact that tournament results are still very much predicatable, with so few players breaking through into the top, some players prob get discouraged as it seems like they can't.

 

[Kone]

1.Hmm I do like what you are saying Ben don't get me wrong, I much enjoy debating this with you than seeing you vs prof again . Your also very right, but how do we change that? im guessing by more regular tournaments? I think it would be benefitial if london could host or travelled, as otherwise it'll just maintain a gap between London and the rest ( no need in London to travel at the moment e.g. shs1 turnout and no way for the rest of the UK to play London). If our best can't play our best regular enough then I guess it would cause issues in players focusing on getting better.

Its abit like the UK is two communities with separate tournaments

2. Im thinking of maybe making two surveys. One for individuals to complete and one for a know smasher in each country to compete. The first survey would be asking general questions like how much time you spend playing melee etc. The second survey would ask how many tournaments the country has per year, where the players are located, size of their community etc. Very brief surveys mind cos im not going to invest that much time I think they would produce needed information to really compare as to why the UK does so bad? what do people think? suggestions on questions would be good

3.Another interesting thought I had was the locality of the major european tournaments. It is well known that players generally improve at tournaments. As such players generally improve a lot more at larger european tournaments Usually as players travel to the venue from far a field so spend a lot more time there, a lot more time playing melee and more time playing a variety of opponents. Sweden has had the ROS series, France ESA, Holland the DT/XTC/ATM series. Germany recently hosted SMACK. Norway has ran a series as well but cant name it. At these tournaments half the players there will be native. Therefore, im presuming that country must get a huge boost in terms of how competitive it scene is post tournament (large amount of their players improving). It also must be very good competitively to know that in a year there will be e.g. another ESA to test yourself at.

My point? the UK has never hosted anything european. Coincidence?

 

[Bullet Bill]

1.Hmm I do like what you are saying Ben don't get me wrong, I much enjoy debating this with you than seeing you vs prof again . Your also very right, but how do we change that? im guessing by more regular tournaments? I think it would be benefitial if london could host or travelled, as otherwise it'll just maintain a gap between London and the rest ( no need in London to travel at the moment e.g. shs1 turnout and no way for the rest of the UK to play London). If our best can't play our best regular enough then I guess it would cause issues in players focusing on getting better.

Its abit like the UK is two communities with separate tournaments

2. Im thinking of maybe making two surveys. One for individuals to complete and one for a know smasher in each country to compete. The first survey would be asking general questions like how much time you spend playing melee etc. The second survey would ask how many tournaments the country has per year, where the players are located, size of their community etc. Very brief surveys mind cos im not going to invest that much time I think they would produce needed information to really compare as to why the UK does so bad? what do people think? suggestions on questions would be good

3.Another interesting thought I had was the locality of the major european tournaments. It is well known that players generally improve at tournaments. As such players generally improve a lot more at larger european tournaments Usually as players travel to the venue from far a field so spend a lot more time there, a lot more time playing melee and more time playing a variety of opponents. Sweden has had the ROS series, France ESA, Holland the DT/XTC/ATM series. Germany recently hosted SMACK. Norway has ran a series as well but cant name it. At these tournaments half the players there will be native. Therefore, im presuming that country must get a huge boost in terms of how competitive it scene is post tournament (large amount of their players improving). It also must be very good competitively to know that in a year there will be e.g. another ESA to test yourself at.

My point? the UK has never hosted anything european. Coincidence?

imo you've always been an ambitious smasher Ed, and have always done things to move the secne forward. I think a European tournament would be good in a lot of ways for the UK. For one thing, seeing as most players in the UK, me included haven't even dipped our toes into the other European tournaments. I think if there was a big European tournament here, then a lot of our players will get to see the scope for improvement and a good perspective in terms of what sort of standar most good european players are. In the UK there is too much rivalry and bickering. Too much wanting to be the best of whatever main, or wanting to be best in the region or wanting to be better than the other guy. A european tournament might be good in terms of banding the UK together.

So yeah if it can happen then a European tournament would be brilliant. Talking about UK national tournaments though, I think your idea of the UK circuit is a very good one. Put tournaments on the map so that they're there for people to book in plenty of time and we should be seeing lots of players improve.

Btw I'm just gonna bring this up now- We (Me Dacacia and PN) would be able to do another Phantom hits. Now most of you horryfically flaked the last one but if you ask the people that did go I'm sure you'd get positive feedback

 

[Gantz ak-47]

So maybe the u.k should host a european tornement.

 

[Kone]

This is quick as im busy but I dont see an issue in another phantom hits. I think people flaked as it came at a bad time and there were some organisational issues (not so much on your part ben, more change of dates and petes lack of presence). Charles has fully supported there being another and I thinky ou would get a large london turnout. Go for it!

In terms of european tournament I would really like to host one. Its probably the only thing that I still see as a challenge within the smash scene especially as a past prolific hoster. My issue is that my current location sucks. Im hoping to be living in brighton by june next year. If this works out I will definetly attempt to run a large european tournament in the summer. If i dont move I may still attempt it. I can't commit to anything earlier than summer. Im pretty confident that with my experinece (coupled with a dedicated group of UK past TO) + proximity to the london if I moved for easy access by foreigners + english being our main language (and european communication language) we'd have the largest euro tournament to date

 

[Cpt.Zeppo]

Nice posts. Such a can of worms opened. I was going to make a very large and in-depth post on this subject, but it was going so broad it would take me about a month to be satisfied with lol. On that note Ed I've actually been faintly composing questionnaires as I was actually going to do similar stuff LOL though more based on player attributes than the geography and habits of a scene, but the two would work very well together so we should discuss it or something? Collaborate or whatever. Also cant make Thursday- Saturday apologies for late notice again but I had to consider my options. Talk to you on msn soon likee

Gantz this subject is too broad to just answer it in one paragraph lol. And most of Eds retorts I agree wth completely, also nice posts Ben liked the listing one although yeah couple exaggerations but there we go. Charlie G nice to see ye nice post also.

I will say this- London is actually an underachieving scene and I expected Charles to get 13th at TSL4 :suess:

 

[Kone]

Don't worry about this week, shall let you of paul . In regards to the collaboration that would be really safe. One for individuals and one for a scene to complete would be great imo. With the questionnaire you have been faintly composing what questions or information were you looking to gather? Also, I would quite like you to reply fully to the topic at hand. I know you said it would be very broad, but, broader the better. If we all participate then the dicussion will grow, if not, we maybe watching another prof v va/ben squabble

I agree that london is underperforming on a whole. I think a lot of the UK don't realise that europe isn't afforded larger or more healthy scenes than what london has. As such, they should be improving at a greater rate imo.

 

[Cpt.Zeppo]

Yeah agree with the last paragraph fully.

Couple things I think should be mentioned lol, think this is a good thread to do it:

-It would be really nice when setting up commentary for matches to do it out of the participating players earshot. I didn't mention it at the time cause it was of no use but it was very distracting at SHS . I also know other players have complained about it.

-Joe should do commentary again. I was looking back at those vids of GGT2 and hes right for the part. Ben your commentary was inconsistent, you didnt analyse the games much. You made a couple amusing comments/anecdotes , but you generally said generic things on the matches. The SHS vids sound like they were recorded in a library .


Ed regarding the questionnaires I'll either talk to you about them on msn or PM lol.

I think the two things holding the UK back can be summed up in two categories:

Attitude and Geographical Circumstances.

Somehow the UK scene is prone to stagnation. This is such a complex issue which is why I dont want to go very in-depth with it. The possible reasons I believe:

-We are prone to put our best players on pedestals and the best players prone to a lack of ambition(why this is Im not sure yet)

-The general social pressure of our scene. You get people everywhere on the boards who say if you practice a video game a lot you have no life(and imply that its bad etc.)- but usually not half of an active video game scene in itself Even Professor Pro whos technical ability visibly shows that hes put several hours in to the game has felt obliged on several occasions to put down other players for their activity in the community(!!) and mention that he has a girlfriend etc.

-UK players love flashiness in exchange for clinical, consistent gameplay- which is deemed as gay, cheap etc., stunting the growth of their game and creating barriers. Essentially, on a wide scale, UK players don't practice properly. Improvement at the game is misunderstood.

-we have less able hosts for smashfests and tournies than other countries

-Talented UK players outside London are in awkward locations limiting their progress. Notice when 2 or more players are very close by in the UK, they usually play very frequently- Old Mafia would play 2-3 times a week for hours on end. I used to play Davemans 2 times a week and I now play Looman 3 times a week, Ed and Phil would play once or twice a week, Robby and Swizzy play frequently for long hours, Jam and Craiigg play frequently for long hours. Joe and Will played often.
However playing one or two people frequently will only develop certain skills and often put you into bad habits, and often with no final result in sight for your hard work due to lack of UK tournies- and you probably can't host one yourself because of work/student/effort constraints. Its also very hard to get your friends into the game once you're at a decent level, because few people like getting beaten about all day, those that do will have usually shown the initiative and looked up their hobbys community online. For over a year Mafias main hub for smashfests was my house and I had to limit its usage because my family live there. If one of us had a useable flat then we may have practiced a lot more and improved a lot quicker. Or if we lived 2 hours between each other as opposed to 3. Small factors like that can make a huge difference.

As a side point, this perhaps not being as conclusive as the other points- I also believe that Doug leaving the scene wasn't a necessarily good thing. He was an already established, very experienced player who had a lot of wisdom about the game and who played very methodically. He was like my guide to improving but at the same time my goal was to defeat him and it motivated me greatly, and the same went for Charles and Jam. Once Doug left, me and Charles dominated somewhat for a while and there was very speedy improvement and medium placings in European tournaments. Then our egos over-inflated and we started talking stuff about the game we didn't know, spreading a bad influence to new players- a result of the pedestal effect. The UK would probably be better if a top 10 player in America didnt win every tournament for 3 years uncontested, but I don't think that made his leaving the community a good thing for the scene around at the time.

Charles hasn't gotten out of the medium placings, holding his ground but it goes to show a lack of improvement in the whole of the UK if he wins every tournament. Also, watch Zhu vs M2K ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6eqa850P1I ) then watch the vids from SHS. We simply do not compare. The reason I cite a top-of-the-metagame match is to emphasise the gulf, and with Armada doing so well at Genesis it has shown that the top Euro players can compete. Nonetheless, heres a Zgetto vs Amsah match for good measure- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JxhoN56J4E With those factors I think 13th makes more sense as a placing :-/. No offence to Charles intended.

Thats what I can think of at the moment, Im sure theres much more and I've probably made a couple mistakes. I think with definite data it would be much easier to find the errors of the scene or define them better.

 

[Fuzzyness]

lol zeppo i lost to a jigglypuff main, thats why i placed 13th haha. Lack of inconsistency is the fault there because I went fox on the second game and 3 stocked him on Dreamland, then lost on FD.

After TSL I realised why I got a problem with my game and it's always been this reason.. I don't stick to one character. Therefore I'm now going to try main falcon and if you think I'm kidding get ***** next tournament

your point about lack of improvement isn't true, londoners are always trying to improve at both melee and brawl >_> maybe it's just outside london because you guys need to hype it up more seriously :/ once you guys get more active I'm sure results may change finally

 

[COEY]

What made you choose falcon Charles? Personally i can see where you're coming from i thought similarly after birmingham, i figured trying to remember 4 or 5 characters match ups and everything about them is alot to have in your head, especially if your trying to concentrate on winning. But i felt after shs1 that only playing luigi had made my game somewhat stagnant, and it also reduces your options and advantages when it comes to counter picking. Hope any of that helps mate.

Also i agree the scene up here needs more effort, i'm going to start ranbats again as of next month. But to be fair i've been hosting in one way or another for like 3 years, but recently i've been unable. The unfortunate thing is in my abscense no one has either been able to or been bothered to keep things running. I'm not pointing the finger or putting blame anywhere, i guess it's kinda johns for not winning my SHS1