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Twin Christmas Parties 3+4 Mafia {The Matryoshka Scandal.} ~ Over! Who had the merriest Christmas? Who got lumps of coal?

Rajam

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
2,175
Location
Santiago, Chile
But they can't talk to each other, which is HUGE. Not only can they not coordinate their NK, but they can't share information about their present amongst each other - how they solved, what their hints mean, how to keep town from understanding the theme, etc.

And OS where am I assuming that they have no NK? It's day 1, there has been no NK.
When you said "regular powers", I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you meant "night kill and quicktopic".

Because just saying no quick topic is, well, pretty silly. It's not like mafia is going to accidentally kill themselves; Nabe already solved that problem in the last game, I doubt he'd introduce it in this one.
What? tako always meant just QT Powers with his wording of "regular powers" (check the post with the gif again); never implicated Mafia's NKill in there; again, where did you get that he also meant that?

And your last paragraph helps in what exactly against my slot...?? Silly = scummy?? Also idk if tako has / had knowledge of Nabe's setups previously, so why exactly are you bringing that point ¿?¿? It just makes tako looks a lot worse of what he actually is / was; it's barely silly (and even less scummy...)

FoS: Overswarm
 

Rajam

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
2,175
Location
Santiago, Chile
When you said "regular powers", I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you meant "night kill and quicktopic".

Because just saying no quick topic is, well, pretty silly. It's not like mafia is going to accidentally kill themselves; Nabe already solved that problem in the last game, I doubt he'd introduce it in this one.
Actually,

[glow]unvote
vote: Overswarm
[/glow]


That last paragraph is just plain scummy. Silly =/= scummy. Aaaand, most importantly, bringing the point of Nabe's corrections on his posterior setups helps little because tako didn't necessarily had to have knowledge of that, which makes the point of his sillyness weak and you should've realized it while you were putting that last paragraph. You still left it.

There is also something else I want to add but first I'll wait for your answers to these.
 

Rajam

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
2,175
Location
Santiago, Chile
Kantrip (Potassium), between your #200 and your #205 (considering the posts in between of course), why didn't you comment on OS' point(s) on tako (#181, #184)? I also checked your posts after those and you didn't address the issue neither; why is that?

Considering now your #424, what do you think (retroactively) of what OS said at that moment?
 

July

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
142
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Gah there is a lot to catch up on, I'm working on it, I had taken a guess at the theme N0 but haven't guessed toDay, I'd like to make my guesses/get to my role toDay, I'm not sure how close we are to a lynch but if we could not do that yet so I can make my guesses and catch up that would be awesome :)
 

Rajam

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
2,175
Location
Santiago, Chile
Vote: No Lynch

I would normally never do this in any mafia game but I do not see benefit to lynch someone today, there are still people who are clueless on alignment and the mafia have not yet accquired a QT together. I'm going to assume that the Mafia, without being aligned with each other, cannot kill. This is only a guess at the most. The main reason I want to NL is because we gain nothing from scumhunting to this day and the theme/roles have become very important. We gain another chance to use our present opening strategies and I would like to get to get to that point also. I'm not sure what Tako was doing but I think he was lying about knowing the true theme. I'm not going to put it in account but I do love what Chuckie has concluded in this day.
Vote: soup
FoS: Potassium

Sees the window with soup wanting to No-Lynch and uses the "reactive attitude" excuse, without even attempting to substantiate why is that sooo scummy that doesn't deserve explanation
 

Rajam

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
2,175
Location
Santiago, Chile
Wii have waited long enough! Everyone who still has their guess for the day should go ahead and guess Tarot Cards. You'll unlock your third layer :chuckle:.

Wii will now explain, our obsessive compulsive user profile stalking has finally paid off! Before the game began, there was a group pm sent out that included Le Batueluer. Wii were curious after never seeing this player even post in dGames before. What were they doing in a game that Nabe obviously would of put a TON of work into?

This "player" joined sometime in September, made a couple vague posts in the Sign Ups thread, social thread and then was never again to be seen. Before the game thread went up (sometime around the 26th of October) this player hadn't logged in for almost a month (wii kept tabs :b:). VERY suspicious for someone who's supposedly received an invite to a private mafia game!

If you look at the OP, you'll notice there is a character called N, who says he's taking a more active role on the game! Wii speculated that this could be Nabe himself, posing as Le Batuler, somewhat akin to a HepAlien account! This is pure speculation on our part! Wii have no real evidence on this other than what's said in the OP.

Moving on, wii realised that this HAD to be a clue! Le Batuluer (or 'The Magician' in English) happens to be one of 22 major arcana tarot cards. Additionally, the sample pm/night 0 death scene included a "hanged man" which is also another Tarot Card! There was also a connection between the Hanged Man's burning strategy which connected with Tarot cards, as well as the fact that the Hanged Man literally represents sacrifice (a fitting start to a game, no?) This was more than enough info for us to confidently guess Tarot Cards on N0, which opened all the way up to our 3rd layer, which was an actual Tarot Card (wii will not reveal which one it is, at least for now). As there are 18 players and 22 cards, wii assume everyone will receive a different card.

Our plan originally was to scope out this Le Batuleur character to see how they would interact with the game, however the fact that they are yet to post leads us to believe that they are a clue themselves, and that lynching them today could be our best option (especially considering many players are without an alignment yet, and we don't know how much info we get from a flip). It may produce more clues or they may be an unlynchable non player - wii do not know! - but the connection between Le Batuleur and the 3rd layer of the present is too much evidence to be a mere coincidence.

In terms of how the theme ties in with the rest of the game, wii have had a difficult time trying to figure it out. Kat and I have run through many potential themes in our head, however none have been a perfect match. Right now wii believe the theme might be one that is related to Tarot Imagery in some way. The Tarot cards themselves are very vague and often left to interpretation, which made it difficult to make a confident guess at a particular character based on our anime clue and particular tarot card. From this, we deduced that it's more likely that the true theme is one that either connects heavily with Tarot imagery in a broad sense, or at least borrows from its characters and ideas.

Our biggest idea for a theme atm is Star Wars, which according to a lot of sources uses a lot of Tarot Archetypes throughout its movies. This link explains it pretty well:

http://www.mysteryarts.com/starwars/tarot/

For other ideas, wii read somewhere that Death Note apparently uses Tarot Imagery in some of its episodes. Kat and I know nothing about these things, nor whether it would be a theme that Nabe would use, but it might be worth looking into.

Anyway, go ahead and unlock your 3rd layer! Maybe some of this stuff will click with someone, and we'll be able to uncover the true theme sooner. Wrt Le Batueluer, wii propose not proceeding past L-2 until everyone has had sufficient time to make their guess.
Hey vander, why (and since when) are you friends with Le Bateleur?

(Le Bateleur profile)
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
10,188
Location
B.C. Canada
I'm granting a deadline extension to September 9th at 15:00 Eastern, owing to any problems people had post-Sandy. This won't count as the single deadline extension allotted to the players.
Oh no guys we're two months over deadline :smirk:

Unvote

Rajam's FoS on me is a genuine one. @Rajam: I didn't comment on those posts by OS because I probably skimmed them or didn't really have anything to say about them. I don't really know. Why?
 

Rajam

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
2,175
Location
Santiago, Chile
Oh no guys we're two months over deadline :smirk:

Unvote

Rajam's FoS on me is a genuine one. @Rajam: I didn't comment on those posts by OS because I probably skimmed them or didn't really have anything to say about them. I don't really know. Why?
Because the issue seemed too important to just ignore it; you either believe OS or tako, and regardless of who you believe, it puts a bad light on the other, wouldn't you agree?

Also, which one is it: you skimmed, or you didn't have anything to say? If skimmed, why didn't you address this issue later then?
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
10,188
Location
B.C. Canada
Why is this a black and white with one of OS/tako being right and one being wrong? Maybe I need to reread the interaction but I should be doing homework right now and what I remember from it isn't anything that forces me to agree with one of them and put the other one in a bad light. If that IS the case, I would favour OS over tako.

I've skimmed a lot of stuff, but chances are even if I did read it in-depth I didn't feel the need to comment on it. I didn't address it later because I never went back to read. I don't even understand what you want me to address about it. Tako says some stuff, Overswarm disagrees with him and says if things were how he thought it would be silly. Silly of him to suggest and silly of Nabe to include. I don't see how I have to cast tako in a bad light because of that interaction.
 

July

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
142
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Kk so the early interactions were interesting, there were interactions between people who didn't know (or at least claimed they didn't know) the alignment and people who did, so I'm trying to take those with a grain of salt while reading them.

You shouldn't look at it like it's black and white. A lie has an intention behind it and I'm not going to lynch someone just because of it. Elaborate on why you think that we should follow this policy.
I really like this, and especially in a game where mechanics can become the focus and people can become overwhelmed by trying to work out the theme and such, this focus on the basics of scumhunting with looking at intentions is definitely a good sign.

Likely purposes for their own reason. I honestly don't think town would have a huge issue about it but I can't say for certain that all town will think the same. My stance about it is pretty clear and that the dayphase is meant to be where town information hunts. The game theme would be very useful but not above finding scum.
I also think this is a good sign, and I think this is indicative of a town mindset early in the game. I feel like scum would be much more focused on figuring out the entire theme once they found out their alignment because they would want to get all their information, while for town just getting the first layer and everyone finding out alignment is the most important goal because that means you can scumhunt. That's why this makes me a little weary:

Post it.

There is no Pro-Town reason to withhold it.
It's just the sense of urgency behind this comment, once again with a grain of salt because I think that outting the theme had the most potential to help town, but there's very little consideration or weighing of pros/cons here which I think are important and were good to consider before outing the theme.

But then again there's a chance that you guys might not catch on so


What is the purpose for solving the theme as a group for town? We benifit by understanding all past lynches and future lynches. But on day 1, solving the theme gives no immediate benifit other than person PR benifits.

But what about mafia? Understand that I believe strongly of what OS has said about rule 13 from the beginning. They will have no private communication in the beggining of the game. Which means that they have to solve their present in order to gain these basic powers. In general I would like to prevent mafia from gaining their private communication as long as possible, but eventually town will have to solve the theme.

So like I was saying, Pros/Cons of revealing the theme day 1:

Pro - Town gets closer to gaining full powers
All FUTURE lynches would be revealed when flipped.
Con - Mafia gets closer to gaining full powers
Mafia gets closer to gaining REGULAR powers.

Why would we not wait until day 2 to understand theme? The benifit that mafia gain by communication/identification far outweigh the benifit of getting closer to having full town powers, especially since our guesses are so limited on day 1.

Now considering that mafia would be thirsty for information right off the bat I tried to prevent the flow of hints/theme clues to everyone as much as possible, while watching for people baiting conversation about the theme. Right off the Bat Soup/Raz comes to mind. Then I wanted to see if I could tell who desperately wanted the theme to be revealed, so I announced knowing the theme knowing that this would gather a lot of mafia attention while having low odds of even having a doc to protect me (OS/Raz comes to mind). Conversely if I was mafia I would have never made this play, I would have simply laid back and waited for opportunities to drop hints.

The reason why I vote OS over Raz is because I believe he really understand all of this, but sees an opportunity to still push for theme while somewhat identifying his possible teamates. Other people I can't tell if they didn't realize how handicapped mafia is atm.

TLDR: Pretty much don't discuss the theme until day 2.
I actually understand this argument, I don't think it's correct, but I can understand why he thought this way. The issues I have with tako come from the fact that he claimed to know the theme when he didn't, and I'm not sure what his intent was behind that but it doesn't seem very protown.

Also, in regards to theme speculation, I really don't see why outing the theme is a bad idea at this point as long as you're not stupid enough to out any abilities you might now know you have.

At the very least, I honestly think it's necessary for everyone to get through the first layer of their box before we can get to any good scumhunting. Swords, for example, currently claims to not know his alignment (and maybe he really doesn't) and thinks that makes him essentially deathproof for now. I don't like that way of thinking at all. I don't want anyone to be able to make that excuse. I want everyone to know which side they're on as soon as possible, and I want to be able to hold them to that knowledge.
I agree with this, and this is what I was getting at with Soup as well, because it shows a focus on scumhunting over personal motivations to get role/complete theme knowledge.


I'm not going to quote all the stuff where Chuckie talks about the theme and their research on the theme and Le Bateleur, but it was just fantastic and very analytic.

Could I get a quick check on everyone and what layer they are currently on, along with their guesses?
On layer 3, just need to do research on my result (I got distracted by the election) but then I'll be good :)

Actually there wasn't much to analyze in terms of alignment, the only people who I'm suspicious of right now are tako for lying about knowing the theme when he didn't, and Raziek because his attitude towards revealing the theme seemed urgent and agitated compared to other people who were more focused on figuring out alignment first and then everything from there was a plus.
 

Chuckie

Kataefi|vanderzant
Joined
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0
Location
an igloo
@Soup: Could you please get at what I asked you earlier about Tako? Gimme example of when he's done this before. I'd look him up myself but quite frankly I don't have the time atm.

Or if anyone else could I'd REALLY appreciate it.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
6,865
@Soup: Could you please get at what I asked you earlier about Tako? Gimme example of when he's done this before. I'd look him up myself but quite frankly I don't have the time atm.

Or if anyone else could I'd REALLY appreciate it.
In his newbie of Cave Story, he proposed a wacky and zany idea that people townread him off due to the ridiculous plan behind it. He was scum. There's not any need for specifics really as he did the the exact same thing as town in Bust a Move. That's where I don't find it telling and feel he's just more or less of a mechanic player. We've gotten our deadline extension so I'm going to try and focus on bigger and better things.
 

#HBC | Kary

Fiend of Fire
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그루그 화산
literally don't have time to read thoroughly as I have 5 minutes total, just going to respond to some stuff;

Oh hey Kary is in this game. SUP BRO. Let's bro it up.
let's, what do you think of my reads in my big post?

Get a claim first. I'll hammer if I don't have one by midnight CST.
this still in play? I find this interesting mostly because I was prepared to roll on a QL or NL toDay, and hadn't even thought about claims.

Why are we singled out for this idea Kary? I'm certain everyone except for Tako made it clear that if anyone knows the theme they should out it completely. In fact we were kinda hesitant to out our information initially, until we realized that we might not get any flips until the theme is outed.
see my earlier paragraph; given the possibility mafia might not be able to kill without unlocking their role pms/ might not know their partners end up killing them/ etc. there was a reasonable case for not outing the theme ASAP.

and I didn't think we'd come to the consensus that we would just out the theme.

you're only 'singled out' because you were the first to come in and reveal how to get to a certain level of your present, and i felt like you jumped right into that without even asking whether you should.

i'm asking because i want your thought process behind making that knowledge public, basically.

Have you played with Kat before? Just curious because I don't think I've played with you before.
yes. He was scum in ERB.

winging this, but fine with the Rajam lynch. see you toMorrow I imagine.
 

#HBC | Nabe

Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
Joined
Oct 21, 2010
Messages
3,932
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Can't breathe, but the view is equal to the taste
Votecount 1-6

10/18 to lynch.

Rajam [8]: Overswarm, Raziek, Red Ryu, PrivateJoker-Brown, Ranmaru, Jdietz43, Chuckie, Kary
Overswarm [1]: Rajam
July [1]: J
Raziek [1]: Le Bateleur
No Lynch [1]: JTB

Not voting: Circus, Sworddancer., July, Ryker, soup, Potassium

------------------------------------------------------------

[collapse=Vote Log] Circus
Overswarm > sneakytako
Ranmaru > Le Bateleur > sneakytako
Sworddancer.
July
sneakytako/Rajam > Red Ryu > Overswarm > Unvote > Overswarm > Unvote > Overswarm
J > July
Ryker
Le Bateleur > Raziek
Private-Joker Brown > sneakytako
Raziek > sneakytako
Chuckie > Le Bateleur > sneakytako
Jdietz43 > soup > sneakytako
ѕoup > Le Bateleur > No Lynch > Unvote > No Lynch > Unvote
JTB > No Lynch
Kary > Rajam
Potassium > soup > Overswarm > Rajam > Unvote
Red Ryu > Potassium > Ranmaru > sneakytako > sneakytako
[/collapse]

Deadline is November 9th at 15:00 Eastern.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
I'm here but not really. The other game started and i've been juggling that with work today and I don't want to half-*** either game.

But honestly, at this point I don't see anything changing. No Lynch is a dumb option, Rajam needs to get hammered. If you haven't guessed by now you need to do so ASAP. You will LOSE guesses.
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
5,164
Wish I had read more of this thread before making my second guess for the Day. I'm going to get it right (at least I'm pretty sure), but if I'd known the Persona stuff, that would have made all of this much quicker.

If it's not obvious, I'm here after that stupidly long absence and am in skim/catch up mode. Haven't gotten to where Rajam comes into play yet.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
OS: What if they say "Oh I used my guess up already"
Wish I had read more of this thread before making my second guess for the Day. I'm going to get it right (at least I'm pretty sure), but if I'd known the Persona stuff, that would have made all of this much quicker.

If it's not obvious, I'm here after that stupidly long absence and am in skim/catch up mode. Haven't gotten to where Rajam comes into play yet.
O_o

There is no excuse for people not having their role on Day 2 if all you ahve to guess is Persona 3+4, for anyone.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
or if it's something really specific and you just guess "Persona 3+4" and you have to guess "the theme is persona 3+4 with a cherry on top" and Nabe just says "NOT ENOUGH".

But seriously, everyone gets their roles.
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
5,164
Well, if I weren't already pretty sold on a Rajam lynch, that omgus against OS sure would have done it.

Vote: Rajam

Oh no guys we're two months over deadline :smirk:

Unvote

Rajam's FoS on me is a genuine one. @Rajam: I didn't comment on those posts by OS because I probably skimmed them or didn't really have anything to say about them. I don't really know. Why?
Explain this unvote better. What makes you think Rajam's FoS on you is genuine? Looks like textbook deflection to me.

@July: Disagree with you about your comments about the way certain players handled the idea of outing the theme (Raz) and valuing scumhunting over the guessing mechanic (Soup). Even if scum start off just as in the dark as town does (which everyone seems to agree probably isn't true based on info given by the mod), scum gaining QT communication and even a Night Kill would seem like a fair trade for getting full reveal flips. The sooner everyone knows the theme, the sooner bodies will be able to be identified. I'm eager for that perk, and I don't blame people like OS and Raz being eager for it as well. In fact, at risk of getting too far up OS' ***, I find myself very much agreeing with his approach this game.
 

#HBC | Dancer

The nicest of the damned.
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
1,390
Location
Orlando, Fl
That's hammer.

I was caching up. Due to my computer catching a REALLY bad virus (my computer is basically unsable right now, and I'm typing this on a uni computer) and a lack of motivation, I've been inactive.

I'll continue to read, but for now I'm going to just post what I was typing incase Nabe closes the thread before I finished.

Time to catch up.

I've been pretty inactive because my mind really hasn't been on this game, plus my computer contracted a pretty big virus (typing this on a uni computer), which has totally shut my computer down. So yeah.

Soup's 147 said:
I didn't want the game to completely delve off to just talking about the mechanic and interferring with scumhunting
Alright fair enough.

Did you mean to say Le Bateluer here out of curiosity?

Our last q is a bit late now as the game's picking up but if you could answer it still that'd be great. Just go through the player list and comment on your expectations from each player... I'll leave this open-ended. As for the q itself it was mainly a discussion starter as I thought you looked a little awkward coming into the game and wanted to poke around a bit.
I was referring to tako, for whatever reason I had a brain fart and I thought that they were one in the same.

Circus - I actually know very little about Circus. Supposedly he did well last Halloween mafia, but I don't remember much about that game. Also, he was in PF, but I didn't read it. No opinion, but lack luster activity so far. I do expect more out of him.

Overswarm - A waller. Likes to be as detailed and as clear as possible when he communicates. He's the type of guy which goes by math rather than subjective reads, which makes him tricky to read. What I'll really like out of him is for him to give out reads as much as possible rather then trying to make a "plan" for town.

Ranmaru - Tends to ask a lot of questions, but he seems to have calmed that habit down so far this game. His towniness is pretty much directly linked to his activity (where him being more active -> more townie).

Sworddancer. - The shining beacon of hope. Logical fellow, tends to get more reads right than wrong when he REALLY pays attention to a game. Will probably be inactive this game. He needs to pick it up.

July - A waller like OS, but tends to stick herself to reads a lot more. Needs to be more active, but RL might be getting in the way so whatever.

sneakytako - Smart newbie. Pulled a super good play in his newbie game to pretty much give himself the clear for the rest of the game early on (he was scum). I know that there has been pressure building on him so far, will give an opinion on him in more detail later.

Rajam - Tends to take forever and a day to catch up. Will go over material that has already been covered to death, but this is null for him.

J - Will be inactive due to IRL johns. Probably shouldn't of joined this game, probably needs to replace ASAP.

Ryker - Is being inactive right now, if he stays in this game then he'll probably come back strong later. More or less like July in terms of activity.

Le Bateleur - No idea.

Private-Joker Brown - no idea

Raziek -

Chuckie (Kataefi/vanderzant) - I'm expecting you guys to be highly logical. To ask the right questions at the right time. Stuff that will really make me think about the game in a new light.

Jdietz43 - Tends to be antagonistic from what I can tell. Jokes around a lot. Otherwise no idea.

ѕoup - Kinda like me, but with a hipster taste in music and video games (RE1 over 4? Gtfo). Gets more reads right than wrong often as town. Has a solid scum game to. You really need to pay attention to Soup to see how attentive he actually is being to a game to learn his alignment (a lesson learned in Disney Singalong).

JTB - Tends to keep things basic. Him posting but failing to scumhunt is necessarily a tell for him (that said, he shouldn't slack off!). I don't know what the difference between his town game and scum game is, as I can't remember if I ever seen him as scum.

Kary - My new favorite newbie (sorry Kantrip). I really liked his performance in my newbie. He has shown an ability to look deeper into things. Might be kinda antagonistic about it, but that's not really telling for him. I expect him to have solid reads this game if he's town, and to be fairly hard to catch as scum.

Potassium - My second favorite newbie (if he really counts as a newbie anymore). Has a super big attitude that he needs to cool. Tends to latch on to things, hard, as both scum and town.

Red Ryu - Uhhh, slightly inactive town game, pretty inactive scum game from what I can remember.

---

Okay, so about Tako. I for the most part like him, because of how hard he committed himself to the "don't guess the theme **** scum over" over thing. Like I said earlier, I do have a general idea on what's going on, and IIRC Soup has a null read as of his most recent post BECAUSE he knows that Tako pulled the "information" stunt as scum in his newbie. However, there's a difference in that game compared to this game that we have to take into account. That being, he was trying to gain townie points in the newbie with his plan. Here, I think that he really thought that his gambit would bait scum out. There is no "It's a gambit!" moment that he did last game in order to try to obtain townie points. It's all played straight whih makes me think that he's town.

The only two things that give me pause are his 180 (which shows that he was concerned with how he was being perceived) and the fact that he replaced out under pressure without giving a reason (this is WIFOM, I know, but it's still on the back of my mind).

UPDATE: Just saw this, but Tako's 160 also makes me good about my overall conclusion that Tako wasn't trying to gain townie points.

@Raz: I will say right now that I'm not a fan of your play. I won't call scum on you since I know that, as scum, you would be aware of how people perceive you (and thus wouldn't do something that seems so sterotypically scummy), but nevertheless you're play has been purely mechanic focused and your jump on Tako easy. Dislike.

@Chuckie: Up until now, you haven't really been that opinionated on players w.r.t. reading them, even though you have said yourself that you believe scum hunting is possible today. I find this . . . interesting (misused ellipsis for emphasis). Can you give me your opinion on Tako and his wagon? Who should we lynch today?

RR being a bit too basic and in and out for comfort.

Kat's idea on Le Bateleur is interesting, to say that least. However, I'm going to just assume that they are not one in the same person, just because the whole idea seems really gimmicky to me.

I'm going to try to ignore anymore speculation talk since you guys already figured out the theme.

OS said:
Why would scum say they didn't find their alignment? Why wouldn't they just say "town" like in every other game? There's no disadvantage to doing so.
So to become "unreadable" for the Day methinks.

Kantrip said:
@Overswarm: I'm not saying that you don't make a lot of notes. I know that about you as a player. I merely doubt the substance your notes for this game could contain at this time that you would have SO MANY where looking through them to find an opinion on a slot is too much work.
Why do you think that this is vote worthy though?

@OS: How does Soup's 256 influence your read on him?

@Le Bateleur: How old are you? When did you meet Nabe? Why did he invite you to this game?

@288: Yeah, for whatever reason I confused you for Tako.

Le Bateleur, you really are started to make me think that Chickie is right. O_O

@Anyone with Persona knowledge: Is the way Le Bateleur is acting now similar to any of the characters in the game? If so, that would pretty much tip me over the edge that Le is indeed Nabe.

I endorse OS w.r.t. to his position on Le.


Up to post 320 so far.
 

#HBC | Dancer

The nicest of the damned.
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Circus, can you go into why you decided to hammer Rajam? I understand that it didn't look like anyone else was going to be the play at that point, and that we should try to get this game into a phase were everyone has their true roles, but you didn't really lay out your case against Rajam specifically. Instead, you just kinda came in, were like "Yep, I agree with this wagon. Bad OMGUS on OS to *hammer*."

For the record, I have no idea what Rajam did, but I think that Tako was probably dumb town over scum.
 

Rajam

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oh welp, I couldn't read much today, so I'll just leave the notes I took up to where I read (~ near the end of page 7 (40 ppp)):


Chuckie (Kataefi | vanderzant)
#101: Second paragraph, town tell.
#140: Slight town tell.
#230: I have to guess “Tarot Cards”.
#230: ugh, idk why but this guess just seems a little off in the sense of how good it is. Why is vanderzant friends with Le Bateleur?

Circus

J

Jdietz43

JTB

July

Kary

Le Bateleur

Overswarm
#181: Check how his accusation based on the assumption develops; OS did a similar “mistake” in Mario Kart Mafia where he got lynched D1 because he did an assumption and the other players thought he made a slip of having “extra” information.

Potassium
#200 - #205: Skimming? Tako was already voting OS, and Potassium doesn’t make any comment on OS’ point on tako.
#258: Scummy vote; uses soup wanting to No-Lynch as a window, and doesn’t substantiate

PrivateJoker-Brown

Ranmaru

Raziek
#179: I like that reaction; townie.

Red Ryu
#187: Needs to check if that vote is just pressure or not; check until what moment he keeps that vote up. Town Ryu focuses a lot more on intent and is more analytical and careful. For example, like in Celebrity Rehab Mafia D1 when he was open to analyze the chance of 2 cops after I cclaimed X1-12 (Ryu was Town). Also, background, inactive Ryu is scummy Ryu (FFTactics, Taco Mafia, Walgreens), and despite knowing his alignment he doesn’t seem to be doing much of anything or being interested in helping the game move (other than the vote…).

Ryker
#167, #172, #175, #176: Town tells by explaining in detail how scum worked on the previous setup and linking the roles; applies only if Ryker knew if own alignment at this point.

sneakytako > Rajam (Town Amnesiac, Male)

ѕoup

Sworddancer.



---

Also it isn't in my notes but I have a slight town read on ѕoup, so it would be:

Chuckie
Raziek

ѕoup
Ryker


Red Ryu
Overswarm
Potassium


Regarding OS:

A little story here: In Mario Kart Mafia, which had a special mechanic, OS made an assumption about it which Nicholas pegged up as OS having "extra information" and hence we thought he made a scumslip and lynched him D1... he flipped Town -_-

The moral of the story, is that OS should know better than anyone that people must be extra careful when pursuing slips of the sort "assumptions which may imply 'extra information'", which may actually end up as not real scumslips... like in tako's case. OS made pursued tako thinking tako made an assumption of scum not having a NKill currently in his post with the gif, but, that assumption never existed in the 1st place; read the post again, and realize that tako always meant only QT communication with "special powers"

All that aside, I still think OS is scummy by pursuing tako's sillyness and not letting it go, adding poor reasoning like Nabe's corrections on these setups which makes tako looks bad because tako doesn't need to know about those corrections. Now summing the previous thing, is the main reason why OS is at the top of my scumlist.

Close enough are Potassium (actually I'm thinking he's scummier than OS) which doesn't seem to show town intention (please check his posts and the stuff he has been ignoring), and Red Ryu which is following his usual scum meta

[glow]unvote
vote: Potassium
[/glow]
 

Jdietz43

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Haven't read anything since Monday night because of work/school, but if my skimming of this last page is any indication I'm taking it Tako bailed on his "I know the theme" stance and now Rajam replaced him.

Kill him dead, I'm not dealing with a "Just kidding" after going through the trouble of figuring out the real theme when he wouldn't out.
 

Jdietz43

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EBWOP2: Nvm see we got a deadline extension in the latest votecount.

Stance on Tako stands. (I still remember having to fight tooth and nail to kill Rake after Zen's D1 tell in Deadpool Mafia)
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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Circus, can you go into why you decided to hammer Rajam? I understand that it didn't look like anyone else was going to be the play at that point, and that we should try to get this game into a phase were everyone has their true roles, but you didn't really lay out your case against Rajam specifically. Instead, you just kinda came in, were like "Yep, I agree with this wagon. Bad OMGUS on OS to *hammer*."

For the record, I have no idea what Rajam did, but I think that Tako was probably dumb town over scum.
I did not decide to hammer Rajam. I knew Rajam was not at L-1 and decided it would be good for him to be at L-1.

I didn't lay out a case, because the case against Rajam's slot has been laid out already by multiple people. I'm hopping on a wagon; there's no sense in me trying to act like I'm doing anything else. If I'm honest, I also just think this game really needs to move into a Night phase. Aside from irl shenanigans that have basically kept me away from all of smashboards for the past few days, not knowing who knows what about themselves kills my motivation like you wouldn't believe. Now that the theme is out, that shouldn't be a problem moving forward, but it's still an obstacle until we get to D2, when no one should have any reason not to have a full role.

Besides, I'll eat my hat if Rajam flips town. He's trying to look like a good townie now, but Tako's play was ***. He claimed to guess the theme pretty much immediately while trying to push a Lynch All Liars policy (LAL? More like LOL amirite?), then replaced out once he started getting heat. Fundamental scum mistake if I've ever seen one. Reexamining the wagon is going to be awesome.

LCD (Soup) and LSP (Kanty) on my list for hoppin' off that wagon for no reason. Well, Soup's "reason" is that he's on this No Lynch kick this game, but I don't buy his reasoning for wanting that. I think we've established that there's no reason to treat this game any differently than any other game at this point, since we have the theme now. No Lynch is no good.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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Oh my god. You know of LCD Soundsystem. Baller reference. I don't know if I feel like mafia tonight.
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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Gheb ain't the only hipster 'round these parts.
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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ѕoup

[trim]

---

Also it isn't in my notes but I have a slight town read on ѕoup....
Can you elaborate on this, Rajam? Soup is the only player you make special mention of in this way. You go out of your way to give notes and post numbers in support of all of your non-null reads except Soup, who you seem to be tossing into the town pile without reason.
 

Rajam

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Can you elaborate on this, Rajam? Soup is the only player you make special mention of in this way. You go out of your way to give notes and post numbers in support of all of your non-null reads except Soup, who you seem to be tossing into the town pile without reason.
It's because my town read on soup isn't based on specific vibes from specific posts, like with Chuckie, Ryker or Raziek. At some point while I was thinking about the roster, I thought that soup is being townie because I read honest intent from him in trying to move the game when it started.
 

Chuckie

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see my earlier paragraph; given the possibility mafia might not be able to kill without unlocking their role pms/ might not know their partners end up killing them/ etc. there was a reasonable case for not outing the theme ASAP.
You could make a case for not outing the theme, however it is just bold speculation. In the last game Mafia had a kill before they guessed the theme.

What we do know however, is that until the true theme is guessed by everyone, it's very likely we're getting next to no information from flips. Nabe would not confirm whether alignment is revealed upon death. This is REALLY bad for town, and potentially outweighs any gains scum might get from making progress on their presents.

and I didn't think we'd come to the consensus that we would just out the theme.
From the players that were actually posting, yes we did. Raz, OS and iirc Soup were all in favour of revealing the theme. Even though they didn't have their alignments, I'm very sure PJB and Swords were in favour of it as well. Only person who was against it was Tako.

you're only 'singled out' because you were the first to come in and reveal how to get to a certain level of your present, and i felt like you jumped right into that without even asking whether you should.
Uh, this is flat out wrong. How much have you skimmed btw? Iirc Raz and Soup both revealed that guessing their alignments would unlock the first layer. Raz also had mentioned that guessing that the next layer contained a picture would unlock the 2nd clue.

Considering you seemingly have a suspicion of us for outing what we knew about the theme, why haven't you looked similarly at Raz/Soup? Does this change your opinion of them? What about Dietz who outed the entire theme?

i'm asking because i want your thought process behind making that knowledge public, basically.
As I've stated many time earlier, it's integral that Town gets flips asap. We also do NOT know the nature of Mafia's powers. They may get them only upon unlocking their complete present, or upon unlocking their first layer. They may have had a kill to begin with, but it's VERY possible that they had this info well before we made our info public.

yes. He was scum in ERB.
K.
 
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