Try Hard 4: Live Free or Try Hard (December 1st) AZ (Last one)

[FerrishTheFish]

I'm confuzzled ... I lost every set in doubles and won two out of four sets in singles, so how the heck did I place better in doubles than in singles?

 

[TommyDerMeister]

SV, Jackie, Jane, Axe and Vincent all had work, or were otherwise busy. Rusty, and Stephen left for some party. Tommy, and Tony refused to enter, Spencer was poor/lazy, etc, Chris was in California.

I know Tucson would be more than happy to go to Phoenix, but you guys really are being unreasonable when it came to THIS turnout. It just so happens that for whatever reason, this ended up being the worst possible situation overall.

I don't play Melee, I only come because just about everyone in the AZ Melee community are cool people, unlike the brawl scene.

You are the unreasonable one. People had things they HAD to do/wanted to do over smash. How can you condemn them for that?

Smash doesn't come first in everyone's life Xander, even if there is a tourney. Even though the turnout may have been disappointing for Tucson, there was nothing that could have been done about it. People had their plans already.

I'm sure you had a good time with everyone regardless.

 

[Tee ay eye]

I don't play Melee, I only come because just about everyone in the AZ Melee community are cool people, unlike the brawl scene.

You are the unreasonable one. People had things they HAD to do/wanted to do over smash. How can you condemn them for that?

Smash doesn't come first in everyone's life Xander, even if there is a tourney. Even though the turnout may have been disappointing for Tucson, there was nothing that could have been done about it. People had their plans already.

I'm sure you had a good time with everyone regardless.

he wasn't saying the people that didn't show up were being unreasonable

he was saying that phoenix was being unreasonable in blowing this poor turnout out of proportion and holding it against tucson

 

[Tee ay eye]

I'm confuzzled ... I lost every set in doubles and won two out of four sets in singles, so how the heck did I place better in doubles than in singles?

They definitely messed the placings up outside of 1-8. I think the Swiss program crashed, and Okami just re-did parts of it to where he could create an accurate 8-man bracket.

FTF should have definitely placed higher than 15th. He beat Book, and he beat bryce, and these matches were towards the end where his record HAD to have been better.

 

[TommyDerMeister]

unreasonableness everywhere.

 

[Tee ay eye]

Shoutouts:

Taj: <3 you, pops
Wobbles: You are a shining beacon of human excellence, you magnificent son of a *****.
Okami: You should implement Taj's Better Rule in all future tournaments GGs in those MMs, though. THAT SET TOOK ABOUT AN HOUR OMGGGGG
Frosty: Good stuff making bracket, thanks for driving, thanks for bringing my TV up for me when I was too lazy to get my *** out of bed, and thanks for letting me land that combo on you Your bracket was kinda dumb (played me and Kyle, who you already played in Swiss). Keep up the good work, anyway. Hopefully you'll be able to get a better chance to test yourself at a tournament with a better turnout.
Coty: GGs
Kyle: GGs
Xander: GGs. We'll step on arrows next time I guess :/
FTF: Good stuff going 2-2 at your first tournament. A few people I talked to were impressed with your skill level for not having been to a tourney before. I'll probably see you within the next few days lolll
Jonny: The homie
CREA: Nice seeing you again
Kosuke: Nice seeing you again and talking to you about stuff. THANKS FOR THE CHIPOTLE OMG <3

 

[FerrishTheFish]

FTF: Good stuff going 2-2 at your first tournament.

Aww, I owes it all to yuz, Tai!

 

[Falcoty]

good thing i didnt go to this one lol if i get saturday off for the next one for sure ill be there

This is a good example of the problem. This is a perfectly understandable stance on the matter. The tournament didn't have a good turnout, so it's good that I didn't go. But this doesn't take into account that all the people who think this, had they gone, would have made the tournament better.

If we are judging this on a case by case basis, then yes, one tournament with bad turnout means little. BUT the conversations that we were having last night included that Phoenix had hosted a tournament with a great turnout, and nobody from Tucson showed up, and we're a tad salty about that. Even if people were busy, ALL of Tucson managed to have johns on that one day. People aren't expected to go to tournaments, but they're not allowed to not go then expect good attendance. The end point is that we go to Tucson because we like to play and we like the Tucson players, but we're a little salty that when we hosted a tournament, Tucson did not reciprocate. Again, we're not implying that this is how it has always been or always will be, we're just going off of recent history.

Bottom line, we love you guys, come see us

 

[Falcoty]

Real Shoutouts:

Taj: lolteams. gg's
Tai: Isn't he that tall black guy?
Okami: Yay Sheik ditto's. See Twin Kyle <3
Xander: Fun games, I needs moar Tucson practice
Kyle: Stop playing peach <3
Robbles: Welcome back!
Frosty: Why ain't you Forward yet?
FTF: Probably the best first timer I've ever seen at a tourney. You have a long way to go but an AMAZINGLY good start.
Kosuke: Come see us plz! I owe you some SFIV. PS, why you always mad? :D

Also in retrospect. I personally like swiss a little less, but that's nothing to do with the system and all to do with how many games you get to play (vs. pools specifically). For a small tournament, I'd prefer a big round robin so we can have lots of games. For a big tournament, when it's very likely to get eliminated earlier, I would much rather have a round robin style so I would get more games for my money. The idea certainly seems to work on paper. But I was very confused by how lowly Minnty placed. He's easily skilled enough to have placed in the top 8, but he placed very poorly. Based on probabilities, it seems very unlikely that he would have placed so lowly because he played VERY badly, and much more likely that the matches he was given in the swiss rounds were against much better players. I'm thinking that the style of swiss might work pretty well for FAIRLY evenly matched players, but we do have a pretty polarized skill level among our players

TL:DR I prefer round robin, swiss COULD work but it seems to need some specific conditions to work properly.

 

[Tee ay eye]

Real Shoutouts:

Taj: lolteams. gg's
Tai: Isn't he that tall black guy?
Okami: Yay Sheik ditto's. See Twin Kyle <3
Xander: Fun games, I needs moar Tucson practice
Kyle: Stop playing peach <3
Robbles: Welcome back!
Frosty: Why ain't you Forward yet?
FTF: Probably the best first timer I've ever seen at a tourney. You have a long way to go but an AMAZINGLY good start.
Kosuke: Come see us plz! I owe you some SFIV. PS, why you always mad? :D

Also in retrospect. I personally like swiss a little less, but that's nothing to do with the system and all to do with how many games you get to play (vs. pools specifically). For a small tournament, I'd prefer a big round robin so we can have lots of games. For a big tournament, when it's very likely to get eliminated earlier, I would much rather have a round robin style so I would get more games for my money. The idea certainly seems to work on paper. But I was very confused by how lowly Minnty placed. He's easily skilled enough to have placed in the top 8, but he placed very poorly. Based on probabilities, it seems very unlikely that he would have placed so lowly because he played VERY badly, and much more likely that the matches he was given in the swiss rounds were against much better players. I'm thinking that the style of swiss might work pretty well for FAIRLY evenly matched players, but we do have a pretty polarized skill level among our players

TL:DR I prefer round robin, swiss COULD work but it seems to need some specific conditions to work properly.

i think minnty actually did place higher

the placings out of top 8 are completely out of order
bryce DEFINITELY did not get 10th, FTF DEFINITELY did not get 15th, i'm pretty sure minnty actually outplaced corey, etc.

p.s. coty, tucson doesn't reciprocate because although you like tucson, tucson hates you LOOOOOOOOOLLLLLL

 

[Tee ay eye]

p.s.

i am indeed that tall black guy

 

[OkamiBW]

Dylan and Jordan also didn't want to enter.

 

[OkamiBW]

@FTF-According to my program, you played SA-X in round 1 and SA-X won. Then you played Frosty and Frosty won. Then you played Dark Shifter and he won. And then you had a bye. If any of those are incorrect, please let me know so I can change it.

For Minnty:
Round 1: OkamiBW vs Minnty
Round 2: Rubyiris vs Minnty
Round 3: Minnty vs Bye
Round 4: SA-X vs Minnty

Somehow I believe he got bracket wrecked... :/

Perhaps we should do pools next time instead?

 

[Falcoty]

I just had a super long discussion of this with Chuckie/Enix. I drew up a big example of this and how it would work (mostly to explain the mechanics to him). In my example, I used a 8-man bracket/whateveritscalled. And after three rounds, one person was 0-3, one was 3-0, two were 2-1, and two were 1-2. Two sets of ties that were most of the entrants is no bueno. It looks like you would need to do at least five rounds for this to work properly. It does seem like a somewhat QUICKER way of kind of weeding people out with less rounds.

BUT, considering we had 15 people, and only did four rounds, skewing seemed inevitable.

 

[Silly Kyle]

We should definitely do pools next time!

 

[Silly Kyle]

1: Wobbles ($50.00) - Nice to have you back, bro. BLUMPKIN!!

2: Tai ($20.00) - What a worthless Marth. I look forward to our rematch next time. <3

3: Silly Kyle ($5.00) - Step it up!!

4: Rubyiris - GGs bro. You can do better next time

5: Falcoty - Lol stick to Sheik next time. xD Peach is hawt

5: Okami - Best doubles partner ever!!! At least we didn't have to play again in bracket - only swiss.

7: Frosty - Good stuff making it into bracket. Work on that Peach matchup

7: Crea - You were super chill. Really glad you were able to make it to the tourney

9: Max - Dude! So close to making it to bracket. Wtf you got this next time!! Had tons of fun blazing up at your place.

10: Dark Shifter - I ****ing love you!! Thanks so much for coming out! <3

11: SA-X - Dat Samus is a sexy ho. <3

12: Book - Nice to see you again! It's been awhile.

13: SuperNoko - Always a pleasure.

14: Minnty - I can't believe you've met Vidjo!! I'm so jelly

15: FTF - Hope you come out to the next tourney!

Jordan - You're awesome. Gays for Bachmann!!

Dylan - So are you. <3 Bong rips for Jesus!

 

[V3ctorMan]

SV, Jackie, Jane, Axe and Vincent all had work, or were otherwise busy. Rusty, and Stephen left for some party. Tommy, and Tony refused to enter, Spencer was poor/lazy, etc, Chris was in California.

I know Tucson would be more than happy to go to Phoenix, but you guys really are being unreasonable when it came to THIS turnout. It just so happens that for whatever reason, this ended up being the worst possible situation overall.

SV could've showed up, sorry, too busy playing Dead Island, and being lazy, and sleeping... uhhhhhhhh yeah, oh yeah and I don't have a vehicle ... ^^

next time hopefully... Good stuff everyone ^^

 

[FerrishTheFish]

@FTF-According to my program, you played SA-X in round 1 and SA-X won. Then you played Frosty and Frosty won. Then you played Dark Shifter and he won. And then you had a bye. If any of those are incorrect, please let me know so I can change it.

Round 1: SA-X (2) vs. FTF (1)
Round 2: Frosty (2) vs. FTF (1) I CP'd and won on Kongo Jungle, then Frosty two-stocked me on Pokemon Stadium.
Round 3: Dark Shifter (1) vs. FTF (2)
Round 4: Book (0) vs. FTF (2)

So, I lost to SA-X and Frosty, but I won against Dark Shifter and Book.

EDIT: Coming from a background of professional chess (where Swiss is used for every tournament), I think that Swiss and Smash just don't mix. Suppose you need 8 people for a bracket but have 4 people tied for 7th place. In chess you can mathematically justify saying, "These two people deserve these spots because they got here by beating experts, and these two got here by beating novices." Good luck trying that in Smash tourney, because not only is there no quantifiable rating system, but things like character matchups can skew results. That's my two cents on the issue, at least.

 

[Falcoty]

I guess it takes a ho to beat a ho...

 

[Junpappy]

Thanks for hosting the tourney. I now remember why I love smash so much (**** brawl).

Kyle/Jane/Max/Bryce/Tommy - it was a lot of fun chilling at Max's. Thanks for loading so many bowls I couldn't keep track.

Tai/Taj/Wobbles/Kousuke/phoenix smashers - nice playing with you guys again. Do you ever have smashfests near chandler/tempe area? I'm down to smash (no brawl), I just need to know when/where.

Also, anyone who wants to play LoL - my tag is pho20.

 

[Duff0]

Also, anyone who wants to play LoL - my tag is pho20.

i play. let me add you right qucik

 

[OkamiBW]

Round 1: SA-X (2) vs. FTF (1)
Round 2: Frosty (2) vs. FTF (don't remember)
Round 3: Dark Shifter (1) vs. FTF (2)
Round 4: Book (0) vs. FTF (2)

So, I lost to SA-X and Frosty, but I won against Dark Shifter and Book.

Okay, give me a tick. As soon as I hear back from Brad, I'll know the pairings better.

The problem that happened was that someone had clicked Drop on Dark Shifter's name during round 3 instead of "Win" and so in Round 4, it had dropped him from the tournament. We tried to repair everything with the exact same pairings beforehand but might have made a mistake then with your pairing round 4. I'll try to get it sorted out ASAP.

 

[AXE 09]

Sorry I couldn't make it guys

Hopefully next time.

 

[Rubyiris]

Mantis has a system to break up ties based on the overall record of everyone you played.

The reason why we ended at 4 rounds was because we didn't have enough players to justify 5. At the end of Swiss there was 1 4-0, 5 3-1s and 2 2-2s.

Sometimes you have to play someone in bracket that you played in Swiss because its based purely on seeding via performance rather than other factors.

@Coty: I want to get friendlies with you when I'm not a zombie. After my set with tai I was mentally exhausted, especially because i was hungry, too.

 

[AXE 09]

Video thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=311030

I don't think that was posted here yet, was it?

 

[Medz!]

who is going to nicknyte's tourney? i might be able to make it so i want to play more ppl

 

[Nicknyte]

everyone. Lawl.

 

[Medz!]

yea i feel like a noob lol

sorry tho i got confused and thought it was a different tourney

 

[OkamiBW]

Okay, I apology to FTF. I got really busy for a bit. I can check up on the bracket now I believe.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Okay, I apology to FTF. I got really busy for a bit. I can check up on the bracket now I believe.

I accept your apologize lol.

 

[Rubyiris]

Just as an fyi, winning or losing 2-1 or 1-2 is irrelevant in swiss. What matters is set wins.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Just as an fyi, winning or losing 2-1 or 1-2 is irrelevant in swiss. What matters is set wins.

For pairings, yes. But aren't win:loss ratios used for tiebreakers? In any case, I won 2 and lost 2, which means I tied for 7th with Crea and Frosty, so SOME sort of tiebreaker should have taken place (for example, Frosty beat me in our individual encounter, so he wins the tiebreak between me and him). Also, not that it matters at this point, that means I did much better than 15th place.

 

[Tee ay eye]

Probably...

Win-loss ratios are used as tai-breakers when there's a three-way tai.

At least, that's my understanding based on how round-robin pools work.

However, if two people tai with each other, the person who won between them will get priority over whoever has better win-loss ratios in each set.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

win-loss ratios are used as tai-breakers when there's a three-way tai.

STOP TALKING ABOUT THREE-WAYS AND PICK UP YOUR TV. >8o

 

[Tee ay eye]

you told me i could leave it

 

[FerrishTheFish]

you told me i could leave it

Yeah, but not forever. I figured you'd be back to pick it up on Friday. If you want to leave it here, don't complain if you walk in and all my dirty laundry and school supplies are piled up on top of it.

 

[Jackie]

I wanna play some more people to test my new playstyle. More reaction/spacing and even more walking.

 

[Falcoty]

Come to Phoenix Jackie! :D

 

[Medz!]

i will prolly go to nyte lyte this saturday, depending how much i get on my paycheck

 

[kid tipper]

Is there a tourny this saturday? I might enter it's been awhile since I've played in some of these