Tree Stump Mafia - OVER! Who lived happily ever after in the forest?

[Purple]

First off, let's assume a couple of situations.

1) if i was lumberjack, and you were correct, would you still stump? Or would you find it worthless seeing how You killed lumberjack so you aren't a lumberjack obviously.

2) if we are both town, what's the point of this deal? We lose two trees, not good

3) If you're lumber jack and i'm town, and i flip town, would you still continue with your flip?

I have more to say, but internet going out

 

[tHe-Man]

...what?

If I didn't immediately stump, town wouldn't have to lynch me. They'd just have to agree to lynch me later. If I was a lumberjack, I'd be a guaranteed kill.

Besides, killing lumberjacks is...how we win. If you thought I was a lumberjack, how would my dying be a bad thing?

You just know that I'm not a lumberjack. And stumping yourself gives you no benefit. Prove me wrong.

This is a true statement.

Unvote, Vote: Omis

 

[Deleted member]

First thing Cello Marl. Please don't produce huge Wall of Text. It puts people off and makes it hard to read.

Some response from Cello Marl:

1) I am prone to tunneling. Specifically, I am prone to tunneling on anyone who refuses to cooperate with me. Any such refusal is a disservice to the town and will only serve to further it's destruction. More accurately, do what is best for Town and we are cool.

I hate to be the bear of bad news, but that's life. The same thing happen to me in the Muppet Mafia and if I were to get tunnel again, I know it's my fault. Just because they don't cooperate with you does mean it's a bad thing.

2) I wrote this opening statement before the game began. As of this writing, I am unaware of my alignment. Do NOT use this post as evidence of any sort.

That doesn't mean we can't find some rules annoying. This is Mafia, any post can be used as evidence, whenever you like it or not.

3a) "Time waste" is the only universal scum tell. This is not true in practice, of course, but I take it as a sign of scumminess. Do not waste time.

Remember, a person can be lazy, but it isn't always a scum tell.

3b) For this game only, waiting for responses for an undue amount of time will also be seen as a scumtell, since we can effectively force as many day lynches as we can fit into the Day time frame (i.e. deny scum their Night Kills) until we hit scum.

Please elaborate on this. I have absolutely no clue what you're saying.

4a) Any hammer will be taken as a sign of scum, with one exception, since we can request that that person stumps him/herself. Instead, any person who wishes to hammer will declare, in bold, "I wish to hammer" or "Declaration of intent to hammer". From the time of that declaration to 24 hours later or 1 hour before the deadline (this must be strictly enforced, as people are not on at all times of the day. 4-6 hours is NOT sufficient in the former case), whichever is shorter, the accused will have the opportunity to stump. If it is not taken, the declarer will hammer without prejudice or credit.

Oh, look at the irony! This is a scum tell, for it waste time. Let use this as an example.

I'm holding the hammer. But I have to follow this rule. There is ten minutes left and I promise to hammer in five minutes. I forget and twenty minutes later, there is an no lynch. How do you like that? And you say that we shouldn't waste him. Contradiction in the same post.

4b) Declare your intent to put someone at L-1. Make a post saying, "In ten minutes, I'm going to vote for [name]. Do not vote unless you intend to hammer that person.", or something similar. Then, vote ten minutes later. This will prevent people from accidently, or "accidently", hammering. Honestly, I'd rather this be standard practice, but it's of special note for this game.

See above.

5) On any Day in which there are exactly two more trees than lumberjacks, we should not vote past [L-(number of Lumberjacks + 1)]. Any "votes" at this point should be written, in bold, as "Declaration to put [name] at L-#", or the like. If we do not do this, then we lose the opportunity to force that person to stump and therefore gain another lynch if we are wrong.

I really couldn't care about this rule one bit.

6) Portion redacted.

What in the world did you just say?

9) If I am scum, I am going to go out of my way to try to avoid my scumtells.

You're not doing an very good job if you are scum. Look, you are currently the main candidate for a lynch.

12c) I am due to be mafia, unless you consider scum to be non-town. I don't.

Please elaborate.

This post was very scummy from my eyes. I also don't like this quote:

tl;dr: Heatstroke, Pierre, and Brockin are the scum. Good game.

First off, what's wrong with long posts? As long as they are good reads, they contribute to the game in a positive way, and aren't guilty of Wall Of Text, their is nothing wrong with long posts.

Also, when you posted this, I read all of Heatstroke's, Pierre's, and Brockin's posts and from what I can tell. I have seen absolutely nothing scummy out of them. Plus, how can you determind that they are scum? We've just started yesterday, so it's not a good idea to guess scum teams until we can get concrete evidences that can support this. I'm all for possible scum teams when we have lots of information, but this early in the game? Of course not.

And I just remember this. Why did you ask for an Deadline Extension RIGHT at the beginning of the game? If we do it now, we'll waste the oppertunity to use it later, when we need to.

Overall, from me reading the thread multiple time, easily my top lynch candidate is Cello Marl. With that said:

Unvote, Vote: Cello Marl

@Today: No, I have never played a Stump Mafia game. As a matter of fact, I'm confused what people mean by "stumping themself". Then again, I'm relatively new, so no wonder why I'm confused.

 

[tHe-Man]

First off, let's assume a couple of situations.

1) if i was lumberjack, and you were correct, would you still stump? Or would you find it worthless seeing how You killed lumberjack so you aren't a lumberjack obviously.

This is not a true statement. It doesn't merit a clear.

 

[Purple]

Xonar or whoever you are, note how i asked him would he stump, or would he find it worthless to. I was not saying it's an automatic clear, i know that there is such thing as bussing. Hence why i'm asking him this question. I think you miss read my question as me being serious with the italicized segment.

Cell, i don't see how our trade could help, you're leading, which is something you do when you're town. FMPOV i am also town, us continue with this ends our lives early. If we have to waste a lynch on you, that just gives the opportunity for lumberjacks to kill a potentially good player on our side.

 

[tHe-Man]

So.

I'm scum for not in agreement for posting our logs. Right.

I'm just not in agreement with it, and you not even giving me a reason as to post them is just making me want to secure it. =/

If you're town, what do you have to hide.

Unvote: Vote GSF

A simple vote on him would be an acceptable way to make people post. Or get them to replace/get modkilled (I'm gunning for replacement). Either or, really. Trying to dictate his vote is not a way to drag a person into the game.

So? Voting him will put him on the defensive and you'll never get a stance out of him.

For someone who seems real keen on us being scum, you don't seem too confident in that bold spot right there. *rolls eyes* If you really feel I'm scum, then I suggest you make a case about it. I don't think I've (or my other half) said anything scummy thus far.

Oh! Oh! Can I do it!? PLEASE!?!?!?!?!?

 

[Cello_Marl]

I'm about to go through and make another post, but first, a note.

I am currently at L-2.

DO NOT VOTE FOR ME UNLESS YOU MAKE A DECLARATION OF INTENT.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Ninja'd.

Nevermind. L-3 again.

 

[tHe-Man]

First thing Cello Marl. Please don't produce huge Wall of Text. It puts people off and makes it hard to read.

Not commenting on the stuff directed at Cello.

Deal with the text. It's all useful information. No one is posting fluff to make their arguments look bigger. I've been making long posts out my *** and you didn't say anything to me. We're discussing a wide range of topics, so longer posts are necessary.

 

[Deleted member]

the forced stumping thing is interesting and might actually work. (with not actually voting, just stumping)


pfft.
SSBF, why in god's name are you reacting to that just now and with such general statements or "wut"s, even I know what redacted means.

You are also complaining about "walls" where there are none. everybody (why pick cello on that anyway) is just multiquoting. you later even contradict yourself.
(what do you defien a "wall" and can you give example in this game)

you then proceed to vote based on what seems to be merely based on cello's first post. way to keep up with the game.

Unvote
Because Cello no longer really warrants a lynch. I still find your pushy style super annoying though

FoS: SSBF
I think I made this clear.

Vote: *The Jester*
where are you?

 

[Brockin]

If you're town, what do you have to hide.

Unvote: Vote GSF

Nothing. I just don't see much of a benefit in sharing in something we'll both talk/address/question in the thread filled with both scum and town. I rather speak to my partner, who I know is town. I'm just cautious of who I trust and whatnot. This was the same in Chaco's game where I was the ****** white mage. I had Ronike (who was town cop) town at the time and one of my powers was that I could make someone bulletproof. However, I was a bit scared to give it as there was a possibility that he could be scum.

It's just my personal preference. >>

So? Voting him will put him on the defensive and you'll never get a stance out of him.

Not really (IMO at least). I always thought that by voting/putting pressure on an inactive, you make them vote and get into the game.

Oh! Oh! Can I do it!? PLEASE!?!?!?!?!?

err....go ahead, I guess. I'm waiting to hear what you have to say anyway lol

 

[Brockin]

EWOP: sorry, I kinda effed up

If you're town, what do you have to hide.

Unvote: Vote GSF

Nothing. I just don't see much of a benefit in sharing in something we'll both talk/address/question in the thread filled with both scum and town. I rather speak to my partner, who I know is town. I'm just cautious of who I trust and whatnot. This was the same in Chaco's game where I was the ****** white mage. I had Ronike (who was town cop) town at the time and one of my powers was that I could make someone bulletproof. However, I was a bit scared to give it as there was a possibility that he could be scum.

It's just my personal preference. >>

So? Voting him will put him on the defensive and you'll never get a stance out of him.

Not really (IMO at least). I always thought that by voting/putting pressure on an inactive, you make them vote and get into the game.

Oh! Oh! Can I do it!? PLEASE!?!?!?!?!?

 

[Omis]

@Brock
How is giving your logs a bad idea? Isnt it just the same exact thing as saying your opinion? What you are doing is basically withholding your opinion.
Im not dumb, Swords. Im not gonna follow him telling me to vote so its not really bad for him to do so.

@Cello
Ya Paprika really is reminding me of me. Im going to say that this is pretty much a null tell though, despite me being town previously. It really is a natural reaction for most the get confused and scared by your style.
How did you come up with an opinion on SSBF when he hadnt posted anything of substance yet?

@Most
I just plain and simple didnt pay attention to the thread until today. I've been sick and today I finally didnt go to school so I've had time to catch up.
Im going with the idea that putting people at L-1 and whatnot is a pretty bad idea for this game. If scum, feels like theyve been caught they can just lynch themselves at L-1 to get thier next kill. Town should be more eager to stump when under pressure so we can get more lynch/stumps in.
SSBF gets some town points from me for his naivety in dealing with Cello.

@Heatstroke
What are you trying to say with #81. I couldnt follow well.

@SSBF
What are you saying when you distinguish between Walls of text and long posts? I thought they were the same.
Read the rules as it is clear that you havent.

 

[Brockin]

@Brock
How is giving your logs a bad idea? Isnt it just the same exact thing as saying your opinion? What you are doing is basically withholding your opinion.
Im not dumb, Swords. Im not gonna follow him telling me to vote so its not really bad for him to do so.

That wasn't swords. Swords is actually offline (He might come back on later on today. no garantee since we didn't talk about timezone and whatnot), so you've been dealing with me, Rockin.

Anyway

Not much to hide, nor is there really much to tell. It would just be us trying to gain town points. (when I say this, I mean scum trying to act town). I feel much better by just naturally gaining town points (by contributing, making good cases, taking stances). Posting conversation logs doesn't prove one town at all, especially if we're gonna talk the same ol thing in the thread.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Brockin: It's barely been 24 hours and you're talking about replacing someone?

I'm scum for not in agreement for posting our logs. Right.

So, you do have them. And yes, that does make you scum. Whether you can or can't, you aren't willing to. I can only conclude that the reason for that is that you are afraid of showing the content. Oh, for the record, I think Rule 23 is unfair (for scum). Example: All tHe-Man has to do to prove his town-hood is wait until Day 2 or 3, then post all his logs. All of them will look reasonable and natural. Yours, on the other hand, should you be forced to post a fake, would look completely unnatural. Especially if they were copied from the html log in AIM. Those are hard to replicate. I made a fake one once before. I wasn't a hydra, but I was going to pretend to be mafia in Popstars. That was fun.

For someone who seems real keen on us being scum, you don't seem too confident in that bold spot right there.

You're only one of 3 people that I suggest is scum. That's pretty confident. I'm just more sure of Pierre/Heatstroke team, what with Pierre's turnabout on HS.

In Batma(n)fia, Tom said he was simply going to assume Kevmo was town. He said it was up to everyone else to figure it out if he wasn't because second guessing himself about Kevmo only hurt his deductive skills.

Ah. Then, no.

I was talking about the question itself and it's answer. Neither matter.

I can see your point in terms of direct information gathered. However, there were a few implied pieces of information and posturing that it showed quite effectively, and that were important. First, I answered. Why? I wanted to establish a rapport with him if I did, in fact, make him my go to guy (I didn't). Next, he thought it was an important piece of information (It isn't). I can't think of anything else. Well, it establishes a profile.

I don't support it atm because I don't know what's going on. Let me get to your list to explain.

Okay, as much as you're trying to annoy me with this, I don't have a problem with someone volunteering a scum list on D1. Opinions can change, especially D1 ones, so it's a good place to start. However, trying to force someone else to share a secret they obviously want to keep for later isn't cool. Note that that isn't the same thing from trying to get stances out of people.

This was in response to me saying "Yes, you should". Keep in mind that "Yes, you should" was directed at Heatstroke when he asked "Should I {commit} sui{cide}?".

We should stump four people today, methinks, and use our extension tomorrow if it isn't over.

Which four do you have in mind? Picks for me are in my list. However, a reasonable compromise would be GSF, Pierre, Heatstroke, and Cello. I think people would be willing to go for that.

1) if i was lumberjack, and you were correct, would you still stump? Or would you find it worthless seeing how You killed lumberjack so you aren't a lumberjack obviously.

2) if we are both town, what's the point of this deal? We lose two trees, not good

3) If you're lumber jack and i'm town, and i flip town, would you still continue with your flip?

Bold portions originally italicized. The way you wrote #2 and #3 looks like an afterthought. To answer #1 though (serious or not), I would stump. Even if you are a lumberjack, I promise, I swear, I pledge, to stump myself after you stump yourself. But only if you go first.

Cell, i don't see how our trade could help, you're leading, which is something you do when you're town. FMPOV i am also town, us continue with this ends our lives early. If we have to waste a lynch on you, that just gives the opportunity for lumberjacks to kill a potentially good player on our side.

Interesting. Let's look further into this. In #30, you make several points insinuating that I may be scum by acting essentially "too townie". However, by that point, the very points in the above quote had already been made (that I lead as town). Later, #38 continues the suggestions that my play is anti-town. Then you vote me in #74 for suggesting that SSBF is townie, despite his lurking. I can only think that you did this because you were going to pounce on it as a "scummy" link between the two of us.

Where then, did your sudden insistence that we're both town come from? It only popped up when I challenged you to stump yourself for your beliefs.

Not much to hide, nor is there really much to tell. It would just be us trying to gain town points. (when I say this, I mean scum trying to act town).

...did you really just say what I think you did?

Posting conversation logs doesn't prove one town at all, especially if we're gonna talk the same ol thing in the thread.

Yes, it does.

@Brockin: What do you think about Heatstroke? Would you support the idea of us both stumping? Do you think I'm scum?

 

[Cello_Marl]

Oh, also:

err....go ahead, I guess. I'm waiting to hear what you have to say anyway lol

I told you not to do this. Why why why why don't I believe you more, forever?

 

[Purple]

@Heatstroke
What are you trying to say with #81. I couldnt follow well.
.

This early in the game, i don't see how Cello's options help town FMPOV

 

[Purple]

Just because i find you scummy, doesn't mean i would trade my own life with yours. I find town lives more important than scum sorry.

And i wouldn't make deals with someone that i find is anti-town anyways.

Pretty much, I don't care for dealing with you until i can see how all of these post towards everyone are actually getting us somewhere. Especially at the cost of my life.

SummonerAU, where are you

 

[Cello_Marl]

Just because i find you scummy...

Oh, so you DO find me scummy. Then why did you say...

Cell, i don't see how our trade could help, you're leading, which is something you do when you're town. FMPOV i am also town, us continue with this ends our lives early. If we have to waste a lynch on you, that just gives the opportunity for lumberjacks to kill a potentially good player on our side.

I'm "also town"? Kill a good player "on our side"? These don't sound like you think I'm scum.

Also,

...I find town lives more important than scum sorry.

I'd really like to hear you justify this. Ask virtually any Mafia player, and they'll tell you that lynching a townie in exchange for a scum is worth it (in other words, 3 townies for 1 scum). How can you say that an actual 1 for 1 exchange is bad?

 

[Purple]

Well, if i could just lynch a mafia, and no town, why wouldn't i do that instead of trading both? From a town perspective, i guess three town to one maf is good and all. But why not no town to one maf.

You didn't bold the part that i italicized in the second post. I was sarcastic about you doing something when you're town. Because i have no way of proving that, that to me is a scumtell. "i would never do this as town" or "i would never do this as mafia" is something that can't be used from game to game, therefore is bad to base off of. also in your next post i would like for you to explain that i was infact sarcastic about you "doing that when you're town". Reason i ask for that is because when people read your post, they don't see the sarcasm and it puts more scumminess on me ,that truthfully isn't there.

But back on subject.

Me saying kill a good player on our side does not include you. You would be dead in my example (by lynch) and lumberjack would have killed a townie who is a potential help.

 

[Brockin]

@Brockin: It's barely been 24 hours and you're talking about replacing someone?

Please don't twist around my words. I was explaining that, instead of dictating Omis to vote, one would have to just put a vote or two on a inactive person to get them to be active. If that didn't work, then let them be replaced/modkill. I never said I want anyone to replace currently.

So, you do have them. And yes, that does make you scum. Whether you can or can't, you aren't willing to. I can only conclude that the reason for that is that you are afraid of showing the content. Oh, for the record, I think Rule 23 is unfair (for scum). Example: All tHe-Man has to do to prove his town-hood is wait until Day 2 or 3, then post all his logs. All of them will look reasonable and natural. Yours, on the other hand, should you be forced to post a fake, would look completely unnatural. Especially if they were copied from the html log in AIM. Those are hard to replicate. I made a fake one once before. I wasn't a hydra, but I was going to pretend to be mafia in Popstars. That was fun.

Like I said, I don't feel like showing contents of something that me and swords would discuss/talk about/put into the open. We may as well talk in third person.

besides, we didn't talk that much. I don't even have the log cause I had to turn off the computer due to family issues at my house. We barely talked 3 minutes. He only reminded me and told me to go read up on the thread (which was on page three out of a 20 post thingie), as well as told me my opinion when I was done. I only told him that there was nothing much to be said (as I explained to him it's still pretty early in the game), except that I thought that Cello's first post was a bit odd (which he agreed) for the first few moments, but then I explained that Cellos must've put a lot of thought into the game. I don't think there was nothing else we said.

Then he signed off.

You're only one of 3 people that I suggest is scum. That's pretty confident. I'm just more sure of Pierre/Heatstroke team, what with Pierre's turnabout on HS.

Then tell me, what would you do if there was a chance if I was town?

Yes, it does.

My mistake I guess. I just never saw it as a pro-town thing.

@Brockin: What do you think about Heatstroke? Would you support the idea of us both stumping? Do you think I'm scum?

Give me 10 minutes or so to reread the thread. Most of my post/attention has been responding back to those who questioned me, so I havn't gotten much of the chance to see who I should focus on.

So far, not sure if you're scum, but I'm not seeing much town points either.

 

[Cello_Marl]

For SSBF:

First, I'll explain the game. Stump mafia works like this; if you (plural) say a certain phrase listed in the OP, you turn into an unlynchable stump. You also lose your vote, but you may continue to post. This does not end the Day. If we use this to make townies commit suicide, it allows us to keep "lynching" until we hit scum, who will refuse to stump themselves.

Oh, look at the irony! This is a scum tell, for it waste time. Let use this as an example.

I'm holding the hammer. But I have to follow this rule. There is ten minutes left and I promise to hammer in five minutes. I forget and twenty minutes later, there is an no lynch. How do you like that? And you say that we shouldn't waste him. Contradiction in the same post.

Your scenario is unreasonable. Since the risk versus reward is too unfavorable, if there are ten minutes left, you shouldn't be considering hammering. Going to a "No Lynch" and losing 1 tree to a NK is better than probably mislynching and then lynching you as punishment, with a total loss of 4.

Further, this rule prevents the same scenario from occurring midDay. Rockin lynched Riddle in LoDScrew (both were town) after a scant 5 hours, despite saying that he was hoping Riddle would put something up in his defense. Well, why didn't Riddle defend himself? He wasn't on. Instead, Rockin relied on claiming it was town's will. Such an occurrence here would be disastrous, so I'm taking every precaution possible to guard against such an event.

5) On any Day in which there are exactly two more trees than lumberjacks, we should not vote past [L-(number of Lumberjacks + 1)]. Any "votes" at this point should be written, in bold, as "Declaration to put [name] at L-#", or the like. If we do not do this, then we lose the opportunity to force that person to stump and therefore gain another lynch if we are wrong.

I really couldn't care about this rule one bit.

Really? You don't care about gaining an additional lynch instead of losing?

All the sub-rules are related in some way. You have to read all "rule 12s" and take them as a whole to understand them. I'm saying, "I've not been scum in a while (note that I use scum to mean mafia. If you read tHe-Man's posts, you'll see that he uses the term to refer to any non-town), but if that's all you bring against me as evidence, I'll use that against you."

Omis, SSBF is reminding me of Miller's Kirbyoshi. Do you agree?

 

[Cello_Marl]

Well, if i could just lynch a mafia, and no town, why wouldn't i do that instead of trading both? From a town perspective, i guess three town to one maf is good and all. But why not no town to one maf.

Because that is a completely unreasonable scenario. You have an opportunity, right now, "from your perspective", to expose scum. Not taking it, while still insisting that I am scum, is ridiculous. Stump yourself.

You didn't bold the part that i italicized in the second post. I was sarcastic about you doing something when you're town. Because i have no way of proving that, that to me is a scumtell. "i would never do this as town" or "i would never do this as mafia" is something that can't be used from game to game, therefore is bad to base off of. also in your next post i would like for you to explain that i was infact sarcastic about you "doing that when you're town". Reason i ask for that is because when people read your post, they don't see the sarcasm and it puts more scumminess on me ,that truthfully isn't there.

Nowhere in this entire paragraph do you address my point against you, yet you want me to exonerate you?

Me saying kill a good player on our side does not include you. You would be dead in my example (by lynch) and lumberjack would have killed a townie who is a potential help.

Oh. My. God.

Once again, we can't expect scum to stump themselves (as we can see from your recalcitrance). The only thing that we can do is lynch them. Since you are claiming that you believe that I'm scum, that I've always been scum, that you've never believed I'm town, why wouldn't you want me lynched? tHe-Man has only been saying that because they don't want the Day to go waste so early on by a scum self-hammer.

Cell, i don't see how our trade could help, you're leading, which is something you do when you're town. FMPOV i am also town, us continue with this ends our lives early. If we have to waste a lynch on you, that just gives the opportunity for lumberjacks to kill a potentially good player on our side.

This is your quote. Your quote. You said it.

"FMPOV i am also town, us continue with this ends our lives early". Who is the other person that you are referring to if not me? Who else did you refer to? No one. Whose lives? Who else is also town.

Besides, you say "If we have to waste a lynch on you". How else am I going to die? Stump myself? Sure. I'll do that. If you stump yourself first. That's what I've been wanting, that's what I've been suggesting. So. Just. Kill. Yourself.

 

[Purple]

How about you kill yourself first so we can see who you are, and then i will stump.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Like I said, I don't feel like showing contents of something that me and swords would discuss/talk about/put into the open. We may as well talk in third person.

besides, we didn't talk that much. I don't even have the log cause I had to turn off the computer due to family issues at my house. We barely talked 3 minutes. He only reminded me and told me to go read up on the thread (which was on page three out of a 20 post thingie), as well as told me my opinion when I was done. I only told him that there was nothing much to be said (as I explained to him it's still pretty early in the game), except that I thought that Cello's first post was a bit odd (which he agreed) for the first few moments, but then I explained that Cellos must've put a lot of thought into the game. I don't think there was nothing else we said.

Then he signed off.

So let me get this straight: You were absolutely opposed to showing us the logs, despite being repeated asked. Now, however, you're willing to go over everything that was said? Also, conveniently, your willingness was right after the chat log is gone. You don't have AIMlogger (or equivalent) turned on? I was the only person you talked about? Yeah. Right.

Then tell me, what would you do if there was a chance if I was town?

If you were town, I'd go down my list.

 

[Cello_Marl]

How about you kill yourself first so we can see who you are, and then i will stump.

I'm not the one who's been caught in a web of my own words. Still, if Pierre or Brockin agrees to stump too, then I'll go first. I'm worth two for one.

I'm not arrogant at all.

 

[Purple]

I want to explain something before i continue. Stumping yourself doesn't ever seem like a viable option for town to me. Reason being is oddly enough, something i learned from another mafia game i'm in. Killing yourself is anti-town. Me killing myself doesn't bring any connections to the table (as far as i know), or evidence to help town. I am a tree, so my general being here is also helpful (regardless of if i post 'well' or not). So for this reason if not anything, i do not want to continue with this deal of stumping each other, especially with me going first. Considering i don't trust you, I have no reason to go first in hopes that you will continue to stump after me.

Because that is a completely unreasonable scenario. You have an opportunity, right now, "from your perspective", to expose scum. Not taking it, while still insisting that I am scum, is ridiculous. Stump yourself.

You see, you say that I will expose scum, however am I truly doing it? I would die, flipping as town-sided, and from then on i have no way to force you to stump with me. So with you being on your own, you will... stump yourself as scum? No you would not. Best case scenario you're saved for 'later' (which is still bad, considering if we mislynch wrong, we're at more of a disadvantage), worst case scenario you sway the town towards you again, your lynch might not even be considered and my sacrifice would be worthless, which is just -1 for town.

Nowhere in this entire paragraph do you address my point against you, yet you want me to exonerate you?

I went off subject there, however i would still like for you to do as i said.

Oh. My. God.

Once again, we can't expect scum to stump themselves (as we can see from your recalcitrance).

The problem here is we're in a situation that i am stumping first, this leaves you to not look scummy because you're not in the hot seat, and i'm taking all of the heat here.

The only thing that we can do is lynch them. Since you are claiming that you believe that I'm scum, that I've always been scum, that you've never believed I'm town, why wouldn't you want me lynched?

Didn't I vote for you? This shows me wanting to have you lynched. This also gives me plenty reason NOT to do this deal with you.

tHe-Man has only been saying that because they don't want the Day to go waste so early on by a scum self-hammer.

...what does this have to do with him?

This is your quote. Your quote. You said it.

"FMPOV i am also town, us continue with this ends our lives early". Who is the other person that you are referring to if not me? Who else did you refer to? No one. Whose lives? Who else is also town.

sure did. I'm saying that we both can be potentially town, perhaps i misworded it. However i'm pretty scatterbrained, while i have FoS's on people (i.e, you) and i think people are scum (i.e, you) I give them leeway to explain themselves and i'm willing to unvote and measure out possibilities (all i have against you is your initial post, annoying aggressive attitude, and your pressure to stump potential town, however that doesn't mean i want you dead 'right now' now. I just feel that my lynch would be best with you until proven otherwise). I don't pressure people to almighty hell thinking their scum just to end up putting my foot in my mouth.

Besides, you say "If we have to waste a lynch on you". How else am I going to die? Stump myself? Sure. I'll do that.

If you'd do that, that gives you the possibility of you being town by your logic. Hell, why don't you do it first?

If you stump yourself first. That's what I've been wanting, that's what I've been suggesting. So. Just. Kill. Yourself.

No.

 

[Brockin]

So let me get this straight: You were absolutely opposed to showing us the logs, despite being repeated asked. Now, however, you're willing to go over everything that was said? Also, conveniently, your willingness was right after the chat log is gone. You don't have AIMlogger (or equivalent) turned on? I was the only person you talked about? Yeah. Right.

Again, don't twist my words. I said you was the first to ask me an opinion about someone else (as in, you was asking me what I thought about said person).

I still wasn't willing to really say anything, but you wanted to know so badly of 'what we said,' so I gave it to ya. As said 'not much to talk about'. I don't like how I was constantly pressured for the log. I only told only cause barely much was said between us.

and yeah, you read that right. I still wouldn't share if more content was said between us (swords might be cool with it, but I'm not). Why? cause we'll basically say the same thing in the thread.

Now, to answer your earlier question

Even after the reread, I still can't see you as neither town or scum. Both you and Pierre is neutral to me

Heatstroke looks like a cornered scum who really doesn't want to stump himself. Latest reply on him asking cello to stump himself is scummy enough. (personally, I know I'm kinda one to talk since I'm no.1 in the list, but that's only cause 1) I don't see much of a strong legitimate case against me of being scummy and 2) this is two people on this account and I have to consider Sword's thoughts as well as myself. I don't want to dictate our votes/decisions that we make. it's not fair)

I'm going to go on since I was able to reread

The-man and Paprika I'm seeing as town. SSBF is...meh. I'm seeing neutral, but slightly town (Only cause he seems to be trying).

everyone else seems neutral as well.

If you were town, I'd go down my list.

Least you're honest... =_=

I have to head off to work, so I'll be back after 7AM or so.

 

[Purple]

Man, i had to re-look at my role because i swear i might as well be a lumberjack

Brockin, what does concerned scum act like anyways, not a connection that has much purpose. Just curious of what you meant.

 

[Today]

@Pierre

Nothing has made me scummy, I thought he was just being hyperbolic to fish for reactions, but I'm having a hard time telling what is what he really thinks and what is what he just says, so I said that after he said I have a good case on HeatStroke being mafia (which I don't, I just have an incongruity).

You thought he was trying to fish for reactions so you gave him a, "idk what to do" reaction?

Vote Pierre

Honestly?

@Cello,

This reminds me of the hard time I was having convincing people that we should let Mentos die in Miller's. Basically, a suicide means only one death, whereas a lynch means two deaths if we were wrong. Forcing suicides means we get about a 50% increase in lynches, unless we lynch correctly, in which case their shouldn't be any complaint anyway.

Okay. So are you saying that if there is a lynchee to have them stump instead of lynched just in case of mislynched?

Oh, whoops. Ok. My questions are equally designed to show intent and gather information. I plan to lead until I am dead, and leave a plan of action for Days 2 and 3. I plan to get Pierre, Heatstroke and Brockin lynched.

Explaining the numerical list.

1) This has happened in Miller's (versus too many to count), Nothing Special (against Marc and Kat), Grammy's (also Marc), and Popcorn (against Frozen). I'd rather it not happen again.
2) This is mostly a lie.
3) Making sure the game pace is fast, so we can get as many lynches in a Day as possible.
4) Dissenters to this opinion are obvscum/mislynch bait. There's no reason I wouldn't make this statement. As town, it's in our best interest. As scum, it's worth great town cred.
5) Prevent end quicklynches on MyLo and gets town another lynch. Much like 4) in reason.
6) I thought people would comment on this more...oh well. Don't do it now, it's unimportant.
7) At this point I begin ranting. Inspired by (but not directed at) Summoner (and Vult Redux).
8) Just believe it. Believe.
9) When I'm town, I lie, when I'm scum, I tell the truth. This was just preparing for that contingency (if my role was scum).
10) Inspired by (but not directed at) Frozenflame (which would have been odd, him not being in the game and all).
11) Rant.
12) Bait.

Hm.. Fair enough.

Question, though. How do you feel about Omis?

@omis: Pay special note to 4a and 4b of my list above. No movie will save you if you violate it. Also, don't watch movies while posting. Also, refresh before posting. Also, vote for sworddancer..

@Omis,

@Heatstroke
What do you think of the policy of "Lynch All Liars"?

You haven't posted anything for the past few pages and the first thing you do is ask a question to Heat out of the blue.

After:

FoS: Omis

Asking questions about game mechanics and other miscellaneous stuff is not nearly as useful as furthering the current discussion. You're only giving people an out to not taking stances by providing a distraction. Go die if you're gonna keep that **** up.

You were pointed out you.
And then you decided to post your questioning on Cello:

@Cello
Why have you specifically asked me to vote for people

I find it odd that wasn't the first thing you questioned.

@Everyone,

Let's force:
Brockin
Heatstroke
Pierre
Today
SSBF
Omis
The Jester
Sworddancer or Summoner

If everyone had to choose one person to stump first who would it be and why?

@SSBF,

First thing Cello Marl. Please don't produce huge Wall of Text. It puts people off and makes it hard to read.

It's a start. It gets us somewhere.

First off, what's wrong with long posts? As long as they are good reads, they contribute to the game in a positive way, and aren't guilty of Wall Of Text, their is nothing wrong with long posts.

What? Contradiction?

@Brockin, So you wouldn't post your logs to prove your innocence? Although I understand where you're coming from. I find it odd you completely won't share anything at all.

Man, i had to re-look at my role because i swear i might as well be a lumberjack

What makes you say that? What have you pointed out about yourself?

 

[Purple]

It was a joke Today, I'm hinting at the hardcore feeling that everyone thinks i'm scum.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Virtual vote count:

today (0) -
super smash bros. fan () -
brockin (rockin/swordsrbroken hydra) (2) - Cello_Marl, tHe-Man
the-man (ryker/xonar hydra) () -
omis () -
heatstroke (2) - Cello_Marl, Brockin, Omis (maybe)
sworddancer. () -
pierre the scarecrow (4) - Cello_Marl, *The-Jester* (maybe), Today, tHe-Man
summonerau () -
*the jester* () -
the paprika killer () -
cello_marl (2) - HeatStroke, SSBF

I took out every vote I thought wasn't serious.

Stumping yourself doesn't ever seem like a viable option for town to me.

This runs completely counter to town sentiment. If you are somehow town, you **** well better stump when you hit 7 virtual votes.

Okay. So are you saying that if there is a lynchee to have them stump instead of lynched just in case of mislynched?

Yes. If they refuse, then we'll lynch them on the last day of the Day.

You haven't posted anything for the past few pages and the first thing you do is ask a question to Heat out of the blue.

He had a good point as to why he asked what he did. Like Omis said, HeatStroke lied. He was trying to have Heat be hoist by his own petard once more. Once was enough to convince me, but more doesn't hurt.

How did you come up with an opinion on SSBF when he hadnt posted anything of substance yet?

His anger at me. Early on. Only a slight anti-scum feel. Still, got a big reaction out of HeatStroke didn't it?

Thoughts and opinions on most people:

Summoner: Town. "Macman, with rule 28, does that apply to people who have commited suicide and can still post?" is not the sort of thing he would say as scum, I think.

Today: Town. "This would depend on the situation. If I put myself out there and if I feel threatened to a kill the next night then obviously I would stump myself." This response took me by surprise. But, after I thought about it for a while just now, I realized where her mind was at. She wasn't thinking in terms of payoff (as scum might have), but in terms of self-preservation. By self-preservation, I mean actually being able to post, something that scum would find no use in, and would not consider.

tHe-Man - Town. "Once, I read through the rules like a good player should, and noticed that rule23 was actually wrong. I also corrected rule 16 which was still referencing to Twilight Mafia." Again, not something that would occur to scum to say or do. If we really need them to, they can post all of their logs. Does anyone want them to?

HeatStroke - Scum. Obviously. "I'm pretty certain i confirmed my role" This is not something a person is mistaken on. Yet, he said, "I never looked at this thread when it was closed. I had it subscribed so i only looked at it when Macman opened it." Like I said, he wants us to believe that he memorized all the rules and quoted them back to Macman without looking at the thread (since that's what he would have had to have done). That's unreasonable.

Brockin - Scum. Refuses to post his logs. Honestly...that's all that we need. It's that important. (Interesting point, if Brockin was town, this would be a perfect example of rules 1 and 8a)

Pierre - Scum. I'll let tHe-Man field the reasons why.

Omis - Dunno, really. I like his words. The most accurate way to put it is that I don't think he's scum because I think other people are scum.

SSBF: Much like Omis, but I like his anger and frustration at me. It feels genuine.

Everyone else is going to read like Omis and SSBF.

Well, anyway. I'm pretty much convinced that Today and tHe-Man are town, and very strongly inclined toward Summoner being town. With only three scum, that's good enough for me to declare victory.

One more thing, we need to get off our *****. Ten days is normal time, but if we're going to fit more lynches into this Day, we need to move, move, move, move.

Summoner, SSBF, Paprika, Sworddancer, Omis, Today, Jester: We need you to say that you're willing to lynch Pierre, HeatStroke, and Rockin. HeatStroke first since Rockin is willing to bus him.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I am looking for a replacement for Today.

Also, stumping extends the day by 7 days. I will edit the OP to reflect that.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I'm not counting any GSF votes, or any otherwise dumb nicknames for people with the exception of abbreviations and misspellings.

Also Hydra's can't post logs. What am I stoopidd?

Activity **** Vote Count:

[1]sworddancer: SummonerAU
[3]Cello: Sworddancer, HeatStroke, SSBFan
[1]The Jester:the paprika killer
[3]Pierre the Scarecrow: The Jester, Cello Marl, Today
[2]Omis: Pierre The Scarecrow, Brockin,


[2]Not Voting:the-man, omis

It takes 7 to lynch!

Deadline is set for the last second of May 1st. EST

 

[tHe-Man]

To correct:
Vote: Brockin

Also, I disagree on stumping too much right now. Later on we can stump people with a good town read, right now, if we go purely by chance, we have a 1/4 chance of getting a scum if we stump someone. I don't think 3 townies for 1 scum would be legit, but it's only chance.

Before we get at Pierre like Cello suggested, I rather discuss with Ryker first. I think we need to get some reads straight before I go around posting. Sleeping sucks guys, especially with timezone bullshizzle.

 

[SummonerAU]

First thing Cello Marl. Please don't produce huge Wall of Text. It puts people off and makes it hard to read. *wall of test*

Okay, was I the only one that laughed?

HeatStroke, if you are sure that Cello is scum and you are indeed town, wouldn't stumping yourself point out your are town and still give you a chance to put a case on Cello?

Guys, feel free to talk about it more, I'll stump myself if we get within a day of deadline. Also, I'm completely okay with letting Cello do what he likes and I think voting him just because he's suggesting to do something so different is silly. Unvote too tired to look at detail at what I missed over the last day or so, I'll vote sometime in the near future.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Boy this moved fast. I'm going have to play catch up for a bit.

Cello, do you still want me to answer your question to me all the way back on page 2, or do you not care anymore?

 

[Brockin]

Brockin - Scum. Refuses to post his logs. Honestly...that's all that we need. It's that important. (Interesting point, if Brockin was town, this would be a perfect example of rules 1 and 8a)

No, no, no. We would just have these posts of me talking with my rockier half getting nitpicked by you looking for more scummy reasons to lynch us. We can share our thoughts in the thread without needing to post logs. And macman just said we couldn't even if we wanted to.

Pierre - Scum. I'll let tHe-Man field the reasons why.

So you're too lazy to say why he is scum, but if tHe-Man doesn't think he is scummy then you won't explain your reasoning?

@tHe-man, Cello How do you expect to get scum to stump? No really, it's more likely that you would get scum lynched rather than him stumping. They are able to get a nightkill that way. We like Omis as a lynch right now, but i (the sharper half of the hydra) am starting to like Cello, but i'm going to half to talk to my rockier half first.

 

[Pierre the Scarecrow]

unvote

I don't understand what I did to attract this needless attention. Cello says I'm scummy but doesn't compound on it ever, and then tHe-Man agrees with him? And neither is doing anything about it but brow beating. How am I supposed to quell your qualms, let alone determine if you are scum or just ****ty town, without hearing what you have to say about me? Today's added vote is also terribad and I suspect she just found a reason to stealth onto a bandwagon. Also, Today is being replaced?

I'm very put off by tHe-Man's "I will talk about Pierre later" twice, as well as Cello's "Pierre is scummy," then "I'll let tHe-Man talk about Pierre." FOS to the two of you.

Cello says that he thinks I am scum and he thinks that HeatStroke is scum. He does not provide any reasons for thinking I'm scum, and his reason for thinking HeatStroke is scum is a contradiction that I found. If I were scum and if HeatStroke is scum, I would not have pointed out the contradiction, so this doesn't make sense. Cello is lining up lynches using other peoples reasoning so he doesn't take the fall when we are wrong. I am less convinced by what I found HeatStroke saying by the fact that Cello is pouncing on it so very very hard.

vote: Cello

@Cello: I don't think HeatStroke is scummy, I think that you are.

I would love to hear what *The Jester* and Sworddancer. have to input. I'm having a hard time gauging Paprika and Omis. Brockin seems to talk more about himself and his hydra than anything else. I feel like Cello is scum, I am put off by tHe-Man for his random "Pierre is scum" but has nothing else to say, Today doesn't seem very town by just chiming in to vote me for a bad reason.

 

[Deleted member]

Pierre, any read on SSBF?