Tournament Mode [1.1.0] Community Patch Notes

[Thinkaman]

Landing Lag is essentially "mystery param" as it's tucked into the Attributes table. The params we can grab and compare easily are generally just floating points on specials.

But there are no such unaccounted for params that match the Charizard bair landing lag change, nor the Marth/Lucina landing lag changes.

 

[Linkshot]

Ah, I guess I misinterpreted "mystery param" as a term. You mean the things I'm poking the WFT boards about right now to slowly solve

@ Thinkaman I believe we found all params for Marth.

1 frame inv. reduction on spot dodge and the rolls.
Utilt, all forms of neutral B, dancing blade 1, and landing lag on all up B's reduced frames
dancing blade increased input window for all hits

And then the other stuff like landing lag on every aerial except Nair reduced. And the Nair damage increase.

Can confirm that all the Marth/Lucina parameters are labelled on my end.

Spoiler: Lucina

[05C][2] 40 -> 37 (uTilt ends 3 frames faster)
[21D][2] 42 -> 40 (Shield Breaker ends 2 frames faster)
[21E][2] 42 -> 40 (Storm Thrust ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[21F][2] 42 -> 40 (Dashing Assault ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[221][2] 42 -> 40 (Max Charge Shield Breaker ends 2 frames faster)
[222][2] 42 -> 40 (Max Charge Storm Thrust ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[223][2] 42 -> 40 (Max Charge Dashing Assault ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[22D][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Shield Breaker ends 2 frames faster)
[22E][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Storm Thrust ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[22F][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Dashing Assault ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[231][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Max Charge Shield Breaker ends 2 frames faster)
[232][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Max Charge Storm Thrust ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[233][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Max Charge Dashing Assault ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[14][1] 22.0 -> 19.0 (Dolphin Slash landing lag reduced by 3 frames)
[14][10] 36.0 -> 33.0 (Crescent Slash landing lag reduced by 3 frames)
[14][19] 42.0 -> 39.0 (Dolphin Jump landing lag reduced by 3 frames)

Spoiler: Marth

[05C][2] 40 -> 37 (uTilt ends 3 frames faster)
[219][2] 42 -> 40 (Shield Breaker ends 2 frames faster)
[21A][2] 42 -> 40 (Storm Thrust ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[21B][2] 42 -> 40 (Dashing Assault ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[21D][2] 42 -> 40 (Max Charge Shield Breaker ends 2 frames faster)
[21E][2] 42 -> 40 (Max Charge Storm Thrust ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[21F][2] 42 -> 40 (Max Charge Dashing Assault ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[229][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Shield Breaker ends 2 frames faster)
[22A][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Storm Thrust ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[22B][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Dashing Assault ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[22D][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Max Charge Shield Breaker ends 2 frames faster)
[22E][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Max Charge Storm Thrust ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[22F][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Max Charge Dashing Assault ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[14][1] 22.0 -> 19.0 (Dolphin Slash landing lag reduced by 3 frames)
[14][10] 36.0 -> 33.0 (Crescent Slash landing lag reduced by 3 frames)
[14][19] 42.0 -> 39.0 (Dolphin Jump landing lag reduced by 3 frames)

 

[Thinkaman]

Right now we are mostly concerned with:

1. Landing Lag changes (which we have no data for)
2. Figuring out what the hell is up with conflicting data/reports on Palutena grabs
3. WFT mystery params

 

[LancerStaff]

Doing a quick test, Palutena's grab ends ever so slightly faster post patch. I can only see the difference on 1/4 speed, though.

 

[Linkshot]

Right now we are mostly concerned with:

1. Landing Lag changes (which we have no data for)
2. Figuring out what the hell is up with conflicting data/reports on Palutena grabs
3. WFT mystery params

There were Frame Speed Mods added to the ACMD of Palutena's grabs, while the floating points for IASA were nerfed, resulting in overall faster grabs, but avoiding ludicrous IASA times.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Right now we are mostly concerned with:

1. Landing Lag changes (which we have no data for)
2. Figuring out what the hell is up with conflicting data/reports on Palutena grabs

Don't worry about landing lag changes. Zapp and Will - The Super Frame Bros. already finished chronicling changes for landing lag on aerials on day 2 of the patch. Side by side comparisons to spot changes, and then video footage of both patches to frame count the difference is a pretty unbeatable system.

As for Palutena's grabs, we don't know why that discrepancy is there. I can tell you as I watch her grabs that the idea that her standing grab increased its endlag is simply not true. It's faster. And from what I keep hearing, the IASA changes in the dump don't account for frame speed multipliers which sounds like the only solid explanation for this case scenario. The dump also suggest her pivot grab is 9 frames faster, and thus faster than her standing. Yeah, right.

Her Pivot grab definitely plays more of its animation in post patch, despite ending two frames eariler, so my money is on frame speed multiplier.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Hey @ Shaya , amateur hour is over, let's pound this out:

includes changes to Luigi Fireballs, Fox Laser, Marth/Lucina Shield Breaker,

Anything on Robin, Sheik, Shulk, Greninja or anybody else who has gotten a neutral special change since the game release?

 

[Thinkaman]

Ohhh, see I thought Master Core 3 had FSMs stated, which as of this moment aren't labelled. But they are instruction 7172A764.

Palutena has a 0.85 FSM on frame 2 of grab and dash grab, and a 0.75 FSM on frame 2 of pivot grab.

This means her overall effective grab times should be (34 -> 31), (42 -> 38), and (40 -> 38) respectively.

Cool!

Edit:
Also, Mega Man Leaf Shield now hits every (24 -> 18) frames
Thrown Leaf Shield and Skull Barrier now hit every (20 -> 11) frames
No other changes.

 

[Dogmaster]

Right now we are mostly concerned with:

1. Landing Lag changes (which we have no data for)
2. Figuring out what the hell is up with conflicting data/reports on Palutena grabs
3. WFT mystery params

Has anyone figured out he Link mystery params?

 

[Linkshot]

Has anyone figured out he Link mystery params?

It definitely LOOKS like Power Bow, but I think there's a damage modifier somewhere else that DIDN'T get changed, which is altering the output damage value.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Anything on Robin, Sheik, Shulk, Greninja or anybody else who has gotten a neutral special change since the game release?

Uh huh. 1.10 Kirby is totally up to date on changes to neutral Bs from this patch and previous ones. He's got Greninja's quicker startup on shuriken, Robin and Bowser Jr's damage buffs, even differences on Mii Fighter specials. And what kinda weirdo cares about Mii Fighters? I don't.

Which is why I spent a good portion of my time today looking for differences that weren't reported.

Hey, open question to data miners. How confident are you that all damage differences, knockback, and angular differences have been found out for the moves in this patch? Cause I randomly found Link's Power Bow dealing 19% damage instead of 20 at a full charge. And I don't make dumb mistakes while testing so don't ask about that. I'm just wondering if I need to check each individual custom move in this game for changes like that.

 

[Thinkaman]

Uh huh. 1.10 Kirby is totally up to date on changes to neutral Bs from this patch and previous ones. He's got Greninja's quicker startup on shuriken, Robin and Bowser Jr's damage buffs, even differences on Mii Fighter specials. And what kinda weirdo cares about Mii Fighters? I don't.

Which is why I spent a good portion of my time today looking for differences that weren't reported.

Hey, open question to data miners. How confident are you that all damage differences, knockback, and angular differences have been found out for the moves in this patch? Cause I randomly found Link's Power Bow dealing 19% damage instead of 20 at a full charge. And I don't make dumb mistakes while testing so don't ask about that. I'm just wondering if I need to check each individual custom move in this game for changes like that.

The Link power bow change simply has to be the second mystery param.

I just found a random change in Mewtwo_search that afaik hasn't been discussed yet. I have no idea what the article is; it's not neutral special, down special, f-throw, or final smash.

 

[Linkshot]

The Link power bow change simply has to be the second mystery param.

I just found a random change in Mewtwo_search that afaik hasn't been discussed yet. I have no idea what the article is; it's not neutral special, down special, f-throw, or final smash.

Are you CERTAIN it isn't the part of Final Smash that seeks out where to send Psycho Break?

Also, I think both of those params are Power Bow. It's just that the previous 1% got barely compressed down and still reports 1%.

EDIT: Robin boards came through and we solved their mystery params

Spoiler: Elwind

[14][2] 0.20000000298 -> 0.600000023842 (Elwind's first gust has triple the aerial control)
[14][3] 0.600000023842 -> 0.800000011921 (Elwind's second gust has 30% more aerial control)
[14][9] 0.699999988079 -> 0.800000011921 (Soaring Elwind's second gust has 14% more aerial control)
[14][29] 0.300000011921 -> 0.800000011921 (Gliding Elwind's first gust has nearly triple the aerial control)
[14][30] 0.20000000298 -> 0.600000023842 (Gliding Elwind's second gust has triple the aerial control)

 

[Aunt Jemima]

People have been saying Confusion got a change, it may be related to that.

 

[Thinkaman]

Are you CERTAIN it isn't the part of Final Smash that seeks out where to send Psycho Break?

Nope! (As in I'm not at all certain)

Meanwhile, WFT also has +1 BKB on all instances of Sun Salutation. (charged, uncharged, custom, whatever)

 

[Vipermoon]

Ah, I guess I misinterpreted "mystery param" as a term. You mean the things I'm poking the WFT boards about right now to slowly solve



Can confirm that all the Marth/Lucina parameters are labelled on my end.

Spoiler: Lucina

[05C][2] 40 -> 37 (uTilt ends 3 frames faster)
[21D][2] 42 -> 40 (Shield Breaker ends 2 frames faster)
[21E][2] 42 -> 40 (Storm Thrust ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[21F][2] 42 -> 40 (Dashing Assault ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[221][2] 42 -> 40 (Max Charge Shield Breaker ends 2 frames faster)
[222][2] 42 -> 40 (Max Charge Storm Thrust ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[223][2] 42 -> 40 (Max Charge Dashing Assault ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[22D][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Shield Breaker ends 2 frames faster)
[22E][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Storm Thrust ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[22F][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Dashing Assault ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[231][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Max Charge Shield Breaker ends 2 frames faster)
[232][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Max Charge Storm Thrust ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[233][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Max Charge Dashing Assault ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[14][1] 22.0 -> 19.0 (Dolphin Slash landing lag reduced by 3 frames)
[14][10] 36.0 -> 33.0 (Crescent Slash landing lag reduced by 3 frames)
[14][19] 42.0 -> 39.0 (Dolphin Jump landing lag reduced by 3 frames)

Spoiler: Marth

[05C][2] 40 -> 37 (uTilt ends 3 frames faster)
[219][2] 42 -> 40 (Shield Breaker ends 2 frames faster)
[21A][2] 42 -> 40 (Storm Thrust ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[21B][2] 42 -> 40 (Dashing Assault ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[21D][2] 42 -> 40 (Max Charge Shield Breaker ends 2 frames faster)
[21E][2] 42 -> 40 (Max Charge Storm Thrust ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[21F][2] 42 -> 40 (Max Charge Dashing Assault ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[229][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Shield Breaker ends 2 frames faster)
[22A][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Storm Thrust ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[22B][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Dashing Assault ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[22D][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Max Charge Shield Breaker ends 2 frames faster)
[22E][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Max Charge Storm Thrust ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[22F][2] 42 -> 40 (Aerial Max Charge Dashing Assault ends 2 frames faster; not accounting for frame speed mods)
[14][1] 22.0 -> 19.0 (Dolphin Slash landing lag reduced by 3 frames)
[14][10] 36.0 -> 33.0 (Crescent Slash landing lag reduced by 3 frames)
[14][19] 42.0 -> 39.0 (Dolphin Jump landing lag reduced by 3 frames)

But this is missing some more of the 42 to 40s. Those missing in your list are: 21C, 220, 22C, and 230.

 

[Linkshot]

But this is missing some more of the 42 to 40s. Those missing in your list are: 21C, 220, 22C, and 230.

220, 22C, and 230 are Custom 3 placeholders back from when each character was going to have 3 customs to unlock. That was scrapped, but the parameters stick around and get swept. Therefore, they don't actually change anything at all. 21C was not changed, based on the diff dump. 05C (uTilt) was, so maybe you misread?

 

[ORANGEtheGORILLa]

god dang, i reallt dont have any patch notes, but im very impressed by all the hard work being put into this.
why no changes to olimar?

 

[Vipermoon]

220, 22C, and 230 are Custom 3 placeholders back from when each character was going to have 3 customs to unlock. That was scrapped, but the parameters stick around and get swept. Therefore, they don't actually change anything at all. 21C was not changed, based on the diff dump. 05C (uTilt) was, so maybe you misread?

OIC for those 3. Thanks.

But 21C is definitely in the listed in the diff params.

Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[21C][2] from 42 to 40

This is copied directly from it.

 

[Linkshot]

OIC for those 3. Thanks.

But 21C is definitely in the listed in the diff params.

Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[21C][2] from 42 to 40

This is copied directly from it.

Oops, was only looking at Lucina. It's the same deal for Marth. You can tell because it's after the Custom2 special.

 

[Vipermoon]

Oops, was only looking at Lucina. It's the same deal for Marth. You can tell because it's after the Custom2 special.

What's the same deal for Marth? I don't understand. Why doesn't Lucina have a 21C change? What is 21C in the first place?

 

[Thinkaman]

What's the same deal for Marth? I don't understand. Why doesn't Lucina have a 21C change? What is 21C in the first place?

They are the same changes; Lucina's subactions are just indexed differently, offset by 4.

 

[Vipermoon]

They are the same changes; Lucina's subactions are just indexed differently, offset by 4.

I see, okay.

So umm...does this mean dancing blade 1 never received a lag reduction like Shaya said it did? I can't tell exactly where DB1 in the paramTable because the place I think it should belong (sub[232]) says IASA 44. Which isn't correct for last patch. Actually, nothing I know of has IASA 44 on Marth.

 

[Linkshot]

I see, okay.

So umm...does this mean dancing blade 1 never received a lag reduction like Shaya said it did? I can't tell exactly where DB1 in the paramTable because the place I think it should belong (sub[232]) says IASA 44. Which isn't correct for last patch. Actually, nothing I know of has IASA 44 on Marth.

The only changes Dancing Blade got are the +5 "mixup" frames on the first 3 slashes.

 

[Thinkaman]

I see, okay.

So umm...does this mean dancing blade 1 never received a lag reduction like Shaya said it did? I can't tell exactly where DB1 in the paramTable because the place I think it should belong (sub[232]) says IASA 44. Which isn't correct for last patch. Actually, nothing I know of has IASA 44 on Marth.

Marth side-b grounded first hit is 0x22e, 0x22f, 0x230 respectively.

 

[Vipermoon]

Marth side-b grounded first hit is 0x22e, 0x22f, 0x230 respectively.

Thank you. Checked them, IASA 40. Perfect. Last thing, do you know what 232-234 are?

 

[Thinkaman]

Thank you. Checked them, IASA 40. Perfect. Last thing, do you know what 232-234 are?

marth 0x216 Shield Breaker (ground uncharged)
marth 0x217 Storm Thrust (ground uncharged)
marth 0x218 Dashing Assault (ground uncharged)
marth 0x21a Shield Breaker (ground charged)
marth 0x21b Storm Thrust (ground charged)
marth 0x21c Dashing Assault (ground charged)
marth 0x226 Shield Breaker (aerial uncharged)
marth 0x227 Storm Thrust (aerial uncharged)
marth 0x228 Dashing Assault (aerial uncharged)
marth 0x22a Shield Breaker (aerial charged)
marth 0x22b Storm Thrust (aerial charged)
marth 0x22c Dashing Assault (aerial charged)
marth 0x22e Dancing Blade (ground first hit)
marth 0x22f Effortless Blade (ground first hit)
marth 0x230 Heavy Blade (ground first hit)
marth 0x232 Dancing Blade (ground second hit up)
marth 0x233 Effortless Blade (unused ground second hit up)
marth 0x234 Heavy Blade (ground second hit up)
marth 0x236 Dancing Blade (ground second hit forward)
marth 0x237 Effortless Blade (ground second hit forward)
marth 0x238 Heavy Blade (ground second hit forward)
marth 0x23a Dancing Blade (ground third hit up)
marth 0x23b Effortless Blade (unused ground third hit up)
marth 0x23c Heavy Blade (ground third hit up)
marth 0x23e Dancing Blade (ground third hit forward)
marth 0x23f Effortless Blade (ground third hit forward)
marth 0x240 Heavy Blade (ground third hit forward)
marth 0x242 Dancing Blade (ground third hit down)
marth 0x243 Effortless Blade (unused ground third hit down)
marth 0x244 Heavy Blade (ground third hit down)
marth 0x246 Dancing Blade (ground fourth hit up)
marth 0x247 Effortless Blade (unused ground fourth hit up)
marth 0x248 Heavy Blade (ground fourth hit up)
marth 0x24a Dancing Blade (ground fourth hit forward)
marth 0x24b Effortless Blade (ground fourth hit forward)
marth 0x24c Heavy Blade (ground fourth hit forward)
marth 0x24e Dancing Blade (ground fourth hit down)
marth 0x24f Effortless Blade (unused ground fourth hit down)
marth 0x250 Heavy Blade (ground fourth hit down)
marth 0x252 Dancing Blade (aerial first hit)
marth 0x253 Effortless Blade (aerial first hit)
marth 0x254 Heavy Blade (aerial first hit)
marth 0x256 Dancing Blade (aerial second hit up)
marth 0x257 Effortless Blade (unused aerial second hit up)
marth 0x258 Heavy Blade (aerial second hit up)
marth 0x25a Dancing Blade (aerial second hit forward)
marth 0x25b Effortless Blade (aerial second hit forward)
marth 0x25c Heavy Blade (aerial second hit forward)
marth 0x25e Dancing Blade (aerial third hit up)
marth 0x25f Effortless Blade (unused aerial third hit up)
marth 0x260 Heavy Blade (aerial third hit up)
marth 0x262 Dancing Blade (aerial third hit forward)
marth 0x263 Effortless Blade (aerial third hit forward)
marth 0x264 Heavy Blade (aerial third hit forward)
marth 0x266 Dancing Blade (aerial third hit down)
marth 0x267 Effortless Blade (unused aerial third hit down)
marth 0x268 Heavy Blade (aerial third hit down)
marth 0x26a Dancing Blade (aerial fourth hit up)
marth 0x26b Effortless Blade (unused aerial fourth hit up)
marth 0x26c Heavy Blade (aerial fourth hit up)
marth 0x26e Dancing Blade (aerial fourth hit forward)
marth 0x26f Effortless Blade (aerial fourth hit forward)
marth 0x270 Heavy Blade (aerial fourth hit forward)
marth 0x272 Dancing Blade (aerial fourth hit down)
marth 0x273 Effortless Blade (unused aerial fourth hit down)
marth 0x274 Heavy Blade (aerial fourth hit down)
marth 0x276 Dolphin Slash
marth 0x277 Crescent Slash
marth 0x278 Dolphin Jump
marth 0x282 Counter (success)
marth 0x283 Easy Counter (success)
marth 0x284 Rush Counter (success)
marth 0x28f Final Smash
marth 0x291 Final Smash

 

[Vipermoon]

marth 0x216 Shield Breaker (ground uncharged)
marth 0x217 Storm Thrust (ground uncharged)
marth 0x218 Dashing Assault (ground uncharged)
marth 0x21a Shield Breaker (ground charged)
marth 0x21b Storm Thrust (ground charged)
marth 0x21c Dashing Assault (ground charged)
marth 0x226 Shield Breaker (aerial uncharged)
marth 0x227 Storm Thrust (aerial uncharged)
marth 0x228 Dashing Assault (aerial uncharged)
marth 0x22a Shield Breaker (aerial charged)
marth 0x22b Storm Thrust (aerial charged)
marth 0x22c Dashing Assault (aerial charged)
marth 0x22e Dancing Blade (ground first hit)
marth 0x22f Effortless Blade (ground first hit)
marth 0x230 Heavy Blade (ground first hit)
marth 0x232 Dancing Blade (ground second hit up)
marth 0x233 Effortless Blade (unused ground second hit up)
marth 0x234 Heavy Blade (ground second hit up)
marth 0x236 Dancing Blade (ground second hit forward)
marth 0x237 Effortless Blade (ground second hit forward)
marth 0x238 Heavy Blade (ground second hit forward)
marth 0x23a Dancing Blade (ground third hit up)
marth 0x23b Effortless Blade (unused ground third hit up)
marth 0x23c Heavy Blade (ground third hit up)
marth 0x23e Dancing Blade (ground third hit forward)
marth 0x23f Effortless Blade (ground third hit forward)
marth 0x240 Heavy Blade (ground third hit forward)
marth 0x242 Dancing Blade (ground third hit down)
marth 0x243 Effortless Blade (unused ground third hit down)
marth 0x244 Heavy Blade (ground third hit down)
marth 0x246 Dancing Blade (ground fourth hit up)
marth 0x247 Effortless Blade (unused ground fourth hit up)
marth 0x248 Heavy Blade (ground fourth hit up)
marth 0x24a Dancing Blade (ground fourth hit forward)
marth 0x24b Effortless Blade (ground fourth hit forward)
marth 0x24c Heavy Blade (ground fourth hit forward)
marth 0x24e Dancing Blade (ground fourth hit down)
marth 0x24f Effortless Blade (unused ground fourth hit down)
marth 0x250 Heavy Blade (ground fourth hit down)
marth 0x252 Dancing Blade (aerial first hit)
marth 0x253 Effortless Blade (aerial first hit)
marth 0x254 Heavy Blade (aerial first hit)
marth 0x256 Dancing Blade (aerial second hit up)
marth 0x257 Effortless Blade (unused aerial second hit up)
marth 0x258 Heavy Blade (aerial second hit up)
marth 0x25a Dancing Blade (aerial second hit forward)
marth 0x25b Effortless Blade (aerial second hit forward)
marth 0x25c Heavy Blade (aerial second hit forward)
marth 0x25e Dancing Blade (aerial third hit up)
marth 0x25f Effortless Blade (unused aerial third hit up)
marth 0x260 Heavy Blade (aerial third hit up)
marth 0x262 Dancing Blade (aerial third hit forward)
marth 0x263 Effortless Blade (aerial third hit forward)
marth 0x264 Heavy Blade (aerial third hit forward)
marth 0x266 Dancing Blade (aerial third hit down)
marth 0x267 Effortless Blade (unused aerial third hit down)
marth 0x268 Heavy Blade (aerial third hit down)
marth 0x26a Dancing Blade (aerial fourth hit up)
marth 0x26b Effortless Blade (unused aerial fourth hit up)
marth 0x26c Heavy Blade (aerial fourth hit up)
marth 0x26e Dancing Blade (aerial fourth hit forward)
marth 0x26f Effortless Blade (aerial fourth hit forward)
marth 0x270 Heavy Blade (aerial fourth hit forward)
marth 0x272 Dancing Blade (aerial fourth hit down)
marth 0x273 Effortless Blade (unused aerial fourth hit down)
marth 0x274 Heavy Blade (aerial fourth hit down)
marth 0x276 Dolphin Slash
marth 0x277 Crescent Slash
marth 0x278 Dolphin Jump
marth 0x282 Counter (success)
marth 0x283 Easy Counter (success)
marth 0x284 Rush Counter (success)
marth 0x28f Final Smash
marth 0x291 Final Smash

Thank you so much. I'm putting these in a word doc.

Marth's angled variations of dancing blade 2 and 3 apparently have different IASA values!! Not even I knew that (I mean how would I notice? Only the forward variants are useful).
@A_Kae You'll have to make corrections to your absolutely beautiful thread http://smashboards.com/threads/complete-marth-frame-and-hitbox-data-1-0-8.409036/

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Regarding WFT's various small knockback buffs, how big a difference will they actually make in practice? As in, how much earlier can her fsmash (for example) be expected to kill? (Her smashes and aerials got +2 KBG IIRC.)

 

[Thinkaman]

@ Thinkaman If you have these stashed away somewhere maybe you can paste the rest of Marth's moveset/everything here or in a private message? If you compiled this list by hand forget I asked.

The rest of movesets are standardized between characters, and labeled in dantarion's files. These are just the specials, which vary between characters.

 

[FallofBrawl]

Just a question, Link could always do this right? It seems to be much more slippery than I could remember (did he even slide?)
https://twitter.com/gameloveshuhei/status/626998594340425728
EDIT: He could always do it, I just avoid playing Link like the plague.

 

[Dogmaster]

It definitely LOOKS like Power Bow, but I think there's a damage modifier somewhere else that DIDN'T get changed, which is altering the output damage value.

Interesting. Regarding the dash and pivot grabs, these changed but we never knew exactly what though right? Maybe dumb quesiton but could it be related grab range? Last time the grab range buff was pretty noticeable to see with the naked eye, I do not know if it was figured out where in the files the actual range changed.

 

[Methacrylate]

I just found a random change in Mewtwo_search that afaik hasn't been discussed yet. I have no idea what the article is; it's not neutral special, down special, f-throw, or final smash.

If it is none of those I would guess that this is confusion... though I have no idea what changed. Looking at a complete mewtwo_search lacks any hitbox and timer information. Maybe it is the grab action? I am at a loss here.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Was playing with link's customs to try and figure out something from the dump, and for some reason, the fully charged power bow is doing one less damage. I have no idea why it's doing 19% instead of 20%. There's no equipment, I'm playing in training mode, nothing to explain this change. And if this is a nerf to the move, I have to ask why just 1%? I'd like it if somebody could investigate the data dump for changes to Link's arrows.



Hold on, there's more. The move naturally cuts Brawler's vertical momentum when in the air and stalls him for the move's duration. But if you were to land before the move's IASA frame, you'd suffer landing lag unique to the move. 39 frames according to this source. You don't suffer that lag anymore. In post-patch, Brawler's landing animation for the move still plays, but he can act as fast as if he was only suffering basic landing lag (2, 3 frames, however much it is for this character). The move is effectively lagless from the air. I did manage to get that landing lag under just one condition, using the move just under a platform will push brawler on top of it. Other than that, this seems like an attack with pretty good reward from the air, even if you hit their shield, you can double jump away before landing, or land for your own shield. What a wild update.



There's definitely no change to the move's damage, duration, startup, or endlag. I've compared the move post and pre-patch multiple times and have no idea what would make the combo counter so consistently different. If there were such a thing as hitstun multipliers, that's all I could think of, since the combo counter should be accurate at communicating hitstun. Regardless, there appears to be no change to the move's function.

As I said, the change to Blurring Blade that results in a combo is an increase in Weight Knockback on the multi-hits. Weight Knockback works by effectively substituting the WKB value in for the move's damage in the knock back formula while also substituting 10 in for the foe's damage percent.

 

[Thinkaman]

If it is none of those I would guess that this is confusion... though I have no idea what changed. Looking at a complete mewtwo_search lacks any hitbox and timer information. Maybe it is the grab action? I am at a loss here.

I'm guessing it's part 1 of his final smash, as suggested.

 

[fox67890]

After searching this thread, I'm surprised that no one mentioned that usage of the Cstick in training mode is no longer finicky at low speeds (an example being that you had to tap it very quickly to make it work at 1/4th speed, pre-patch)

I honestly think this should be noted. Using the cstick was really stupid in 1/2 and 1/4th speeds, but it's legitimately perfect now.

 

[Vipermoon]

The only changes Dancing Blade got are the +5 "mixup" frames on the first 3 slashes.

Didn't see this post.

It says IASA 40 in the paramTable. Shaya even put it in the first post. It's still there.

It's the frame speed situation isn't it? Slowed from frame 4 to 7. That would make it IASA 43, 42 total frames which is what people kept saying it was last patch.

@ Shaya So it was a mistake? Remove it from the OP?

EDIT: Actually, you're wrong. Like Thinkaman said, grounded DB1 is 22E.

Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[22E][2] from 42 to 40

It's in there. Nvm Shaya.

Just keep reading.

 

[Thinkaman]

@ Shaya What about DHD's dodge improvements? He has one frame faster IASA on all 4 dodges.

(For those playing the home game, that puts DHD as tied with Mac for best ground dodges in the game, and tied with a handful of characters for 2nd best air dodge after Mewtwo.)

Edit: I lied, they are tied with Giga Mac. DHD is now the #1 ground dodger in the normal cast.

 

[Shaya]

I think there's this as a possibility:

Original end frame was 45 at 1.0.
We were made aware it was buffed by 3? frames in a patch along with ftilt and jab. I'm pretty sure we said the end frame was then 42.
The next patch jab frame reductions were reversed for the new "melee fair" jab. Maybe dancing blade was switched back at this point and no one noticed?

And now in this patch dancing blade was buffed again, although it doesn't seem to be different to what we're aware of from before, huh?

Unless I'm wrong, these animations parameters are tied to the frame of the animation itself and would not consider how game data can alter frame rates. Considering it's going from a frame 4 start up to 7 (+3 frames without any other modifiers afterwards), if it was at 42 it would've been 45 FAF "again" (although actually 44).

This would mean that currently DB1 should be ending on frame 42 (+3 on 39), just like we thought it was after 1.06.
And yes, there's a lot of ambiguous plus/negative 1 arithmetic going on here.

 

[Vipermoon]

I think there's this as a possibility:

Original end frame was 45 at 1.0.
We were made aware it was buffed by 3? frames in a patch along with ftilt and jab. I'm pretty sure we said the end frame was then 42.
The next patch jab frame reductions were reversed for the new "melee fair" jab. Maybe dancing blade was switched back at this point and no one noticed?

And now in this patch dancing blade was buffed again, although it doesn't seem to be different to what we're of from before, huh?

Unless I'm wrong, these animations parameters are tied to the frame of the animation itself and would not consider how game data can alter frame rates. Considering it's going from a frame 4 start up to 7 (+3 frames without any other modifiers afterwards), if it was at 42 it would've been 45 frames again.

This would mean that currently DB1 should be ending on frame 42 (+3 on 39), just like we thought it was after 1.06.
And yes, there's a lot of ambiguous plus/negative 1 arithmetic going on here.

This is a freakin murder mystery...

@LordWilliam1234 Didn't you redo Marth's frame data for 1.0.8 and still find it at 42 frames?

At this point, someone needs to count frames for DB1 in 1.0.8 and 1.1.0 versions and we'll call it a day.

Solved.