Tournament Mode [1.1.0] Community Patch Notes

[Moydow]

With Marth's Dancing Blade having a 5 frame longer window to input the next step, does that also mean Roy's got the same change?

No, there were no such changes to Roy

 

[Ritronaut]

I remember Yoshi had this gimmick where if he was grabbed, no matter how tall the opponent was, he would always be in the air.
Even with Pikachu.

After this patch, it seems Pikachu no longer can hold yoshi for an air release, Yoshi's feet touch the ground now. I think it was patched out. It's a shame, I thought it was something nice they gave us in order to gimp yoshis easier. The size of the character you grab Yoshi with seems to actually matter now.

 

[FUEGO!]

Honestly I view this as a parallel buff. An infinite is a terrible thing to lose (purely in terms of strength), but gaining the kinds of tools that define high level play is a major plus, and it's not at though jab jab is completely gone, it's just not a super braindead setup anymore.

Yeah, morally, i feel better playing him knowing i can't have "braindead" thrown in my face. The new jab actually DOES set up into a bit more than it used to. He honestly feels closer to his melee incarnation, although not quite. Does that make sense? It's like the shine and blaster buffs made his specials feel like aggressive options as much as the rest of his kit, which is why it feels more "melee" in playstyle i suppose.

 

[YerTheBestAROUND]

Hi guys can you please check the following nerf to little mac?

-Little Mac can no longer downtilt -> dash -> upspecial any longer.

Can confirm. That's really weird though.. it seems he can't do it out of a single dash, as in if you just move the stick enough to start the dash but don't continue running. If you continue running he can up b just fine.

 

[Methacrylate]

Hi guys can you please check the following nerf to little mac?

-Little Mac can no longer downtilt -> dash -> upspecial any longer.

There is only one change to Little Mac in the data dump which is not mentioned in the OP and that is an animation effect which will not change the mechanics of the move only its visuals. Therefore, the only changes to Little Mac are the neutral special and side special changes listed in the OP. No changes to down tilt, dash attack or up special therefore I would suspect that combo to function the way it did prior to the patch.

 

[theyellowflash26]

Hi guys can you please check the following nerf to little mac?

-Little Mac can no longer downtilt -> dash -> upspecial any longer.

You can. You gotta jump cancel it tho.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

The Lucario, Shulk and Toon Link differences were annoying me so I've managed to track down a 1.0.5 3DS and I'm getting results more in-line with what others have said. Before I was using a 1.0.0 3DS.

Lucario's forward-smash and down-smash cool down increases. Shulk's dash-attack buff and Toon Link's neutral-aerial landing decrease are actually 1.0.4 / Wii U release patch changes that were somehow missed. I'm consistently able to recreate these differences with a 3DS 1.0.0 copy of the game.

So apologies for confusing people.

@ Shaya Here is the explanation for Shulk's dash attack and why it's not a change for this patch. Please remove it from the OP.

...toon link was removed from the OP? Wasn't that for confirmed changes only? was nair landing lag reduction deconfirmed? is noo ne paying attention to his confirmed dash grab/dash turnaround grab buff?

The person that confirmed the nair landing lag was testing between 1.10 (Wii U) and 1.00 (3DS). Toon Link did in fact have a change in Nair landing lag, but it's not in this patch, it was a previous one. Many changes have gone undocumented in previous updates because it wasn't until just a few days ago that we actually found animation data in the game files that doesn't relate to hitboxes, such as aerial landing lag and FAFs for attacks.

As for Toon Link's dash and pivot grabs, there is no such change in this update. At least not to endlag like I assume you mean. They are completely the same as I compare them now.

 

[Shaya]

@ Shaya there has been a change to Pikachu which has been known for a few days by the Pika board which has not made your list yet. Here is the post to first confirm it: http://smashboards.com/threads/ver-1-1-0-patch-thread.412172/#post-19791088

Several Pikachu mains have tested and can confirm that the thunder wave infinite of neutral custom 2 has been removed.

I was aware of it (had even been talking about it), but I wasn't exactly sure how/what.

Pikachu

• Thunder Jolt (Neutral Special) projectile hitbox angle altered from Sakurai angle to 0° on both default and thunder wave (in the latter case removing it's ability to lock)

So the reason the infinite worked is because the knockback of it would change it to from a spike to 45 degrees. The electrifying stun is set up so that it can't be effective against the same target until they touch the ground. So at a certain percent, 45 degrees, but the knockback after the stun would push them into the ground, resetting the value while they were still in hit stun with pikachu having like 50 years of frame advantage.

How this affects his default special as well will be interesting... no one's noticing much yet with that?
I'm assuming 0 degrees is legitimately "just hit stun, no knock back"? Not sure.

 

[Goesasu]

I was aware of it (had even been talking about it), but I wasn't exactly sure how/what.

Pikachu

• Thunder Jolt (Neutral Special) projectile hitbox angle altered from Sakurai angle to 0° on both default and thunder wave (in the latter case removing it's ability to lock)

So the reason the infinite worked is because the knockback of it would change it to from a spike to 45 degrees. The electrifying stun is set up so that it can't be effective against the same target until they touch the ground. So at a certain percent, 45 degrees, but the knockback after the stun would push them into the ground, resetting the value while they were still in hit stun with pikachu having like 50 years of frame advantage.

How this affects his default special as well will be interesting... no one's noticing much yet with that?
I'm assuming 0 degrees is legitimately "just hit stun, no knock back"? Not sure.

Customs being adressed right here, there was no need to change default but there was a reason to change thunder wave.

Can we stop pretending that developers dont balance customs?

 

[Shaya]

They've been good with "infinites" or things most would consider game breaking thus far. Olimar order tackle whatever was fixed within a patch of it's discovery too.
Fox was the only long lasting one (and it apparently only was non-escapable by like... Shulk and Mewtwo), but now it's probably resolved. But as we could probably muster, his jab wasn't game breaking (just abusive).

Both the default and thunder was altered, although it was more fleshed out with the default.

 

[Linkshot]

So, Angle 0 isn't a special angle if my memory serves correct, even though it sounds like one. It simply means "straight ahead", so technically a semispike because gravity is a thing that affects knockback.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Pikachu

• Thunder Jolt (Neutral Special) projectile hitbox angle altered from Sakurai angle to 0° on both default and thunder wave (in the latter case removing it's ability to lock)

How this affects his default special as well will be interesting... no one's noticing much yet with that?
I'm assuming 0 degrees is legitimately "just hit stun, no knock back"? Not sure.

An angular change, that's interesting. Keep in mind that Pikachu's Neutral B 1 and 2 have different properties when fired from the ground and air. From the air, it's a projectile, and from the ground you get the arc hitbox, even if Pikachu fires from close enough where you never see a visual arc before it hits somebody.

A move that has a 0 degree angle is capable of jab locking indefinitely. Though, when the victim has more damage, they will slide further. It's quite funny to watch jab locks with Jigglypuff's 0 degree Dsmash. But anyway, both air and ground Thunder Wave definitely have a 0 degree angle. But default Neutral B from the air seems to have the same jab locking capabilities as pre-patch with its sakurai angle intact.

So, Angle 0 isn't a special angle if my memory serves correct, even though it sounds like one. It simply means "straight ahead", so technically a semispike because gravity is a thing that affects knockback.

Completely horizontal. 360 degrees is the counterpart angle that is also horizontal, but sends the opponent in the opposite direction, like Wario's late dash attack. Anything between 181 and 359 is essentially a meteor angle by sending the opponent downward and can even have the spike sound effect assuming the move has enough knockback.

 

[Linkshot]

Completely horizontal. 360 degrees is the counterpart angle that is also horizontal, but sends the opponent in the opposite direction, like Wario's late dash attack. Anything between 181 and 359 is essentially a meteor angle by sending the opponent downward and can even have the spike sound effect assuming the move has enough knockback.

Um, er, don't you mean 180 degrees? Pretty sure 360 functions exactly the same as 0, unless it doesn't do the jab lock thing..

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Um, er, don't you mean 180 degrees? Pretty sure 360 functions exactly the same as 0, unless it doesn't do the jab lock thing..

You're right, my bad. I don't know how I mixed that up while typing.

 

[Linkshot]

You're right, my bad. I don't know how I mixed that up while typing.

I probably would've made the same mistake too!

Anyway, to stay on topic, gonna pull up Shulk values

Changed fighter_param_vl_shulk.bin[12][40] from 1.09000003338 to 1.07000005245
Changed fighter_param_vl_shulk.bin[12][81] from 1.09000003338 to 1.07000005245
Changed fighter_param_vl_shulk.bin[12][122] from 1.30799996853 to 1.2840000391

Back Slash momentum?

 

[Methacrylate]

I was aware of it (had even been talking about it), but I wasn't exactly sure how/what.

Pikachu

• Thunder Jolt (Neutral Special) projectile hitbox angle altered from Sakurai angle to 0° on both default and thunder wave (in the latter case removing it's ability to lock)

So the reason the infinite worked is because the knockback of it would change it to from a spike to 45 degrees. The electrifying stun is set up so that it can't be effective against the same target until they touch the ground. So at a certain percent, 45 degrees, but the knockback after the stun would push them into the ground, resetting the value while they were still in hit stun with pikachu having like 50 years of frame advantage.

How this affects his default special as well will be interesting... no one's noticing much yet with that?
I'm assuming 0 degrees is legitimately "just hit stun, no knock back"? Not sure.

After playing around with it a while, Linkshot is correct when he says:

So, Angle 0 isn't a special angle if my memory serves correct, even though it sounds like one. It simply means "straight ahead", so technically a semispike because gravity is a thing that affects knockback.

When hit with the thunder jolt, you will slide across the ground during the hit stun. If you are standing at the ledge when hit you will slide off the side then continue to fly at at roughly a 30 degree angle downward until the end of the hit stun. I do believe what you wrote about the change to Pikachu is mostly accurate, Shaya; however, after reading your post and Linkshot's post you guys gave me an idea which does work to accomplish the thunder wave lock.

You said that electrifying stun can only work if the character comes in contact with the ground, so my question for you is, what do you think the game classifies sliding on the ground as? I would assume it to be continuous contact with the ground during the slide.

Edit: I am able to perform the Thunder wave lock on the 3DS but not the WiiU version...

 

[Ultinarok]

Really pleased with this patch. I'm an "all buffs, no nerfs" kind of guy and I just feel that lesser characters get many buffs while top tiers get none or very minor ones, until everyone is about on par. So to see few major nerfs and many respective buffs for the roster is inspiring. Gotta love that reduced Marth lag! He gets more fluid with every patch and is actually starting to feel like a fencer now. I only want a small air speed buff and I think he'll be perfect.

Back slash is godlike. My god. So much better. Loving it, and playing my monado boy all the more for it. Shulk buffs are always welcome, even if he doesn't need them.

Shine buff is noticeable, been mixing it into my combo game again because its actually worth using now. Palutena finally got buffs where she needed them, those godawful tilts. Still laggy but they actually connect and are harder to punish! Mitigating one of her biggest weaknesses. Been loving that too because I use her fairly often.

Robin and Kirby can start combos from throws. Let it begin. Still getting used to the new Robin DThrow trajectory though.

Really good overall. No Falco blaster buff though even those Fox got one? What's that all about? Hardly seems fair.

 

[ぱみゅ]

If you don't nerf, you'll end up polarizing matchups. It's not a horrible idea a metagame of characters countering each other, but it's not ideal.

Sheik might need nerfs, Luigi could use some (and buffs to compensate?), Rosetta's aerials are devastating to some characters out there, and so on.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Really pleased with this patch. I'm an "all buffs, no nerfs" kind of guy and I just feel that lesser characters get many buffs while top tiers get none or very minor ones, until everyone is about on par. So to see few major nerfs and many respective buffs for the roster is inspiring. Gotta love that reduced Marth lag! He gets more fluid with every patch and is actually starting to feel like a fencer now. I only want a small air speed buff and I think he'll be perfect.

Back slash is godlike. My god. So much better. Loving it, and playing my monado boy all the more for it. Shulk buffs are always welcome, even if he doesn't need them.

Shine buff is noticeable, been mixing it into my combo game again because its actually worth using now. Palutena finally got buffs where she needed them, those godawful tilts. Still laggy but they actually connect and are harder to punish! Mitigating one of her biggest weaknesses. Been loving that too because I use her fairly often.

Robin and Kirby can start combos from throws. Let it begin. Still getting used to the new Robin DThrow trajectory though.

Really good overall. No Falco blaster buff though even those Fox got one? What's that all about? Hardly seems fair.

hey now, Falco got a lazer buff long before Fox did...

 

[Vipermoon]

Yeah don't remind of the game-release Falco laser. That was horrifyingly terrible. Terrible, terrible, terrible. In fact, game release Falco, Marth, and MK were probably the biggest failures in the history of Smash.

 

[RidleyDX]

hey now, Falco got a lazer buff long before Fox did...

Yes to make them less atrocious, there still bad though, Fox blaster was leagues better and now even more so.

Has anyone figured out that change to mewtwo shadow ball listed in the dantarion dump http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/mewtwo_shadowball.html

looks like a change in damage, if I'm reading correctly 1.5 to 2.

 

[Vipermoon]

Funny thing about Fox's blaster is that up close it deals damage faster than you can artificially raise damage in training mode. Not that you'll ever be able to do that in a match. Unless you get a shield break.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The projectile shots on Mewtwo F-Throw deal more damage, is what it is.

 

[Megalopunny3]

Yes to make them less atrocious, there still bad though, Fox blaster was leagues better and now even more so.

Has anyone figured out that change to mewtwo shadow ball listed in the dantarion dump http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/mewtwo_shadowball.html

looks like a change in damage, if I'm reading correctly 1.5 to 2.

It's the damage of the shadow balls in Mewtwos forward throw I believe

 

[RidleyDX]

The projectile shots on Mewtwo F-Throw deal more damage, is what it is.

It's the damage of the shadow balls in Mewtwos forward throw I believe

Ah thanks that was bugging me for a while, wondering what it was.

 

[Yikarur]

Mii Brawler upair 9% -> 8%, first hit fair 3% -> 4% and other changes to Special moves are missing in the op

 

[Meleemaster5000]

How in the heck was Wario not buffed? His foward smash is garbage and never hits, up smash has no range at all (like Mario and luigiis) and he has no range whatsoever to make up for it. He has the worst match ups but he is basically untouched? What the **** man

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The Dash Attack change was largely a buff. Wario is a rather good character as he is.

 

[A_Kae]

http://smashboards.com/threads/new-update-has-altered-engine-and-reduced-input-lag.412566/

Could this be true?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Unless the buffer system was changed (in previous versions, you can only buffer one input at a time), I seriously doubt that there is any change like what he's suggesting.

 

[Lavani]

"I can reliably dthrow into luigi's SJP now, something that was very difficult for me to do before." is a pretty sketchy point of comparison considering its hitbox was buffed generously

I can't prove or disprove anything but I'm highly skeptical

 

[A_Kae]

I'm skeptical as well. That kind of change would be an odd one to make, and testing/proving it would be filled with placebo.

And since it's based on Luigi's hitbox buff on u-special, that makes it even less likely.

 

[Vipermoon]

You would think they'd already be providing us with the lowest input lag possible. That's what makes me skeptical.

 

[A_Kae]

You would think they'd already be providing us with the lowest input lag possible. That's what makes me skeptical.

Didn't brawl have 2 frames of input delay?

I vaguely recall that being a thing.

 

[Vipermoon]

Didn't brawl have 2 frames of input delay?

I vaguely recall that being a thing.

Did it? I only got into frame data (let alone Smashboards) for Smash 4.

 

[A_Kae]

Did it? I only got into frame data (let alone Smashboards) for Smash 4.

http://smashboards.com/threads/input-delay-in-brawl.331376/

Seems like it did. And it's randomly up to 2 frames, apparently.

 

[Deleted member]

There is only one change to Little Mac in the data dump which is not mentioned in the OP and that is an animation effect which will not change the mechanics of the move only its visuals. Therefore, the only changes to Little Mac are the neutral special and side special changes listed in the OP. No changes to down tilt, dash attack or up special therefore I would suspect that combo to function the way it did prior to the patch.

But it doesn't.

Do the following: Downtilt -> Dash -> Grounded Upspecial, It's hard to explain, but it like simply ignores the input. As someone mentioned you can indeed jump cancel it, but it's no where near as effective as catching opponents in the hitboxes and getting the kill.

Note: I just tested this on my 3ds, which has version 1.08 and you can flawlessly Downtilt -> Dash -> Grouded Upspecial and it will register the input the moment you enter it after dashing. This is not the case in 1.1.0 and is therefore a nerf, even if it's not listed in the mined data, it is still occurring.

This might be an unintentional bug, and if that's the case I hope it gets fixed next patch. I would really appreciate if someone could make a video on this and raise awareness.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Try using your 3DS as a controller on your Wii U and doing it. I don't think what you're saying is actually the case.

 

[Ffamran]

hey now, Falco got a lazer buff long before Fox did...

What "buff"? Patch 1.0.4 made it rapid fire faster, but that's pretty useless when the end lag is still atrocious. That was a superficial buff. Lowered end lag on a Fox's Blaster is significant when he's already fast and its end lag was pretty decent. Now, it's even faster.

 

[Sykkamorre]

How in the heck was Wario not buffed? His foward smash is garbage and never hits, up smash has no range at all (like Mario and luigiis) and he has no range whatsoever to make up for it. He has the worst match ups but he is basically untouched? What the **** man

Worst MU's?

Ganon/sheik.