Tournament Mode [1.1.0] Community Patch Notes

[A_Kae]

Looking at the 1.1 dump: http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/144//marth.html

DB1 seems to be subaction 231, not 22E. 22E looks unrelated.

In the 1.0.4 dump (I think that's this one): http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/48/marth.html

DB1 is 22E. And there's no subaction 231.

 

[Vipermoon]

Looking at the 1.1 dump: http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/144//marth.html

DB1 seems to be subaction 231, not 22E. 22E looks unrelated.

In the 1.0.4 dump (I think that's this one): http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/48/marth.html

DB1 is 22E. And there's no subaction 231.

Wow it's true. Idk what reason it had to change to 231.

So when you take a look at 1.0.8 http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/128/marth.html and 1.0.6 http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/80/marth.html you can see that it's also 231 in here and not 22E.

The IASA always said 40 whether it was .6, .8, or 1. Looks like DB1 wasn't touched after all (unfortunately). IASA 40 + 3 frames of extra start-up = IASA 43 or 42 total frames. Same old DB1.

 

[Protom]

• Grenade Launcher (Neutral 3) projectile now dissipates upon hitbox clash rather than exploding

I'm away from home for a while and this one sentence has me very paranoid/worried. Could someone explain to me exactly what this means??

 

[⑨ball]

• Grenade Launcher (Neutral 3) projectile now dissipates upon hitbox clash rather than exploding

I'm away from home for a while and this one sentence has me very paranoid/worried. Could someone explain to me exactly what this means??

Grenades don't blow up if they get hit by something anymore. They just disappear.
):

 

[Chromfirmed]

I don't understand why Zelda is again banned in some movements, it seems that Sakurai doesn't like the character.
There are other characters that are quite strong and aren't banned, is unfair ... I think.

 

[Meek Moths]

I don't understand why Zelda is again banned in some movements, it seems that Sakurai doesn't like the character.
There are other characters that are quite strong and aren't banned, is unfair ... I think.

zelda was banned because she is too cute

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

• Grenade Launcher (Neutral 3) projectile now dissipates upon hitbox clash rather than exploding

I'm away from home for a while and this one sentence has me very paranoid/worried. Could someone explain to me exactly what this means??

The grenades naturally explode on contact with enemy characters. As well as exploding on a timer. Prior to the update, if your opponent attacked the grenades with a move or projectile they would explode just as if they hit something directly. Now they disappear when attacked like other projectiles.

 

[_____.]

It seems they made aerials easier to perform when setting the c-stick to tilts. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It seems they made aerials easier to perform when setting the c-stick to tilts. Can anyone confirm this?

"Easier?" I don't understand how that could be when flicking the stick has never given me problems. Are you suggesting that buffering from certain situations doesn't give you a N-Air anymore?

 

[Dantarion]

http://smashboards.com/threads/mastercorev3-thread.412710/

Please give me feedback, command labels, etc, here.

 

[TheWozny]

Me hoping next patch that Marth, Roy, and Mario's sourspots are nerfed... especially Mario.

 

[_____.]

"Easier?" I don't understand how that could be when flicking the stick has never given me problems. Are you suggesting that buffering from certain situations doesn't give you a N-Air anymore?

It seems like before, when set on tilts, aerials wouldn't come out based on my c-stick input direction, but more based on my control stick input direction when using the c-stick. I'm not really sure, that's why I'm asking about it. Using aerials definitely wasn't the same as having the c-stick just on default.

 

[Browny]

Someone help me understand something strange with Mewtwos fthrow buff. I am very consistently seeing it do 14%, despite when doing it in training mode 10 times in a row, it does 130%.

Now I KNOW that fresh moves do 1.05% but heres the kicker... Every other attack in the game that does 13%, I use the same attack 4 times in a row and it goes like this; 13-25-36-46

Yet mewtwos fthrow will always go 13-25-36-47

I'm pretty sure the buff in this patch was simply 10.5 -> 13% and nothing more, but there has to be a reason why I see it do 14% so often in matches when his other attacks that do 13% (bair/fair) only rarely get a 14% hit, and none of Mewtwos attacks do decimal place damage.

 

[TheWozny]

Someone help me understand something strange with Mewtwos fthrow buff. I am very consistently seeing it do 14%, despite when doing it in training mode 10 times in a row, it does 130%.

Now I KNOW that fresh moves do 1.05% but heres the kicker... Every other attack in the game that does 13%, I use the same attack 4 times in a row and it goes like this; 13-25-36-46

Yet mewtwos fthrow will always go 13-25-36-47

I'm pretty sure the buff in this patch was simply 10.5 -> 13% and nothing more, but there has to be a reason why I see it do 14% so often in matches when his other attacks that do 13% (bair/fair) only rarely get a 14% hit, and none of Mewtwos attacks do decimal place damage.

As someone who plays a lot of Mewtwo, I myself haven't noticed this much, but could it be that the stale moves multiplier (for lack of a better term) on his Fthrow is smaller due to it using multiple projectiles instead of one single throw hit?

The way I see it, most throws will do less because it's one single powerful move that does less overtime, whereas MewTwo's Fthrow is 5 small damaging projectiles, which might take longer to become stale due to there being a multi-hit and might have a smaller stale move multiplier because each orb is already low damaging.

 

[Browny]

That's the current explanation going around, but it doesn't explain the very high incidence of 14% fthrows compared to fair and bair. I've watched some replays of mine where literally every single fresh fthrow does 14% which only like 50% of fairs/bairs do 14%.

This makes me wonder. In training mode and according to the raw data pulled from the patches, fthrow does 13.00% yet in practice with the staling effect, it actually does like, 13.25% should the patch notes reflect this?

I can't even test the old one any more but I just don't feel like its accurate to say the move does 13% when it consistently does more than that. I mean... if the game data files said marios fsmash did 20 but in-game it does 25, we go with the in-game value. Where do we draw the line on this, is it too close to not even bother with mewtwos fthrow?

I get its meaningless semantics, but Mewtwos fthrow just straight does not do 13% like other 13% attacks do, it does 13.25%.

 

[FlabbyOrb]

Knockback of bowser Jr's mechakoopa has been reduced from 20 to 19.

This is a good fix because sometimes the initial flip up of the mechakoopa would not connect with the explosion at higher percents or on light characters like jigglypuff.

now the explosion is unescapable even on a Jigglypuff at 999% with DI

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/param-diff-128-144/fighter_param_vl_koopajr.bin.txt

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Does that account for SDI?

 

[-Xeroskia.]

Does that account for SDI?

I doubt it does, and well-timed SDI could probably escape it more often then simply not DI'ing, but it's good that the move is a little more secure of it's own accord.
Apparently, it was just dodges and roll data. Welp.

 

[Methacrylate]

Knockback of bowser Jr's mechakoopa has been reduced from 20 to 19.

This is a good fix because sometimes the initial flip up of the mechakoopa would not connect with the explosion at higher percents or on light characters like jigglypuff.

now the explosion is unescapable even on a Jigglypuff at 999% with DI

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/param-diff-128-144/fighter_param_vl_koopajr.bin.txt

There was no change to Bowser Jr.'s mechakoopa. All changes in the bin file you quoted have been accounted for as the first three are the one frame invulnerability reduction to roll, sidestep and air dodge and the last two are the damage increase of the neutral special cannonball uncharged and fully charged.

 

[pikazz]

http://smashboards.com/threads/mastercorev3-thread.412710/

Please give me feedback, command labels, etc, here.

gave feedback in thread but will ask here anyway

can it show info about items aswell as Projectile Items like Peach Turnip, Link Bombs and Jrs Mecha Koopa?

 

[Dantarion]

There was no change to Bowser Jr.'s mechakoopa. All changes in the bin file you quoted have been accounted for as the first three are the one frame invulnerability reduction to roll, sidestep and air dodge and the last two are the damage increase of the neutral special cannonball uncharged and fully charged.

This is absolutely correct.
As of now, these params that are directly linked to subactions are now displayed inline in the diffs, as well as in this seperate param file.

The param diffs are the only part of the site that are not prettified, and that is because most of the data isn't understood, and I don't have a good way other than manual labeling to make it so

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Charizard's Ftilt hitboxes were tweaked in this patch. And I find that the move's sourspot no longer contains a Sakurai angle when I try to jab lock with it. Can anybody confirm this in the data files?

 

[Waroh]

In 1.0.8, Wario was able to spawn his bike from the air, land on the stage with the bike, jump off the bike before it reaches passed the ledge and stay airborne long enough for the bike to reach the blast zone and use it again from the air. In this patch it looks like that doesn't work anymore. I've only heard of the dash attack being the known changed thing in the data, so I have no idea why this is. Perhaps related to Pacman's glitch fixes?

I have both versions so I can provide proof, if necessary.

 

[pikazz]

In 1.0.8, Wario was able to spawn his bike from the air, land on the stage with the bike, jump off the bike before it reaches passed the ledge and stay airborne long enough for the bike to reach the blast zone and use it again from the air. In this patch it looks like that doesn't work anymore. I've only heard of the dash attack being the known changed thing in the data, so I have no idea why this is. Perhaps related to Pacman's glitch fixes?

I have both versions so I can provide proof, if necessary.

I believe this, since stuff like that isnt code inside their AnimCmd file and cant really be datamine that easy

however, show the diffirents since I want to know

 

[Asdioh]

I don't want to jump the gun on this, but I haven't seen Kirby lose Copy abilities since the patch. I even tried it in training mode, and then against a CPU in smash mode. I took multiple stocks (on Temple!) without Kirby losing his power. Before, he would randomly lose Copy abilities. You could get hit once immediately after gaining the power and instantly lose it, or get hit a whole bunch of times without losing it. I'm asking the Kirby boards to test it, but I figured I'd mention it here as well. If randomly losing your power is indeed gone, this is actually a huge (RNG) buff.

Never mind, finally got it after like a BILLION hits. With Greninja's upsmash. Testing RNG isn't fun. Sakurai please remove this RNG.

 

[Dantarion]

I believe this, since stuff like that isnt code inside their AnimCmd file and cant really be datamine that easy

however, show the diffirents since I want to know

The file that a lot of this stuff is in IS something I can read, but its hard to diff because the file is almost completely different each time due to things being reordered.

 

[pikazz]

The file that a lot of this stuff is in IS something I can read, but its hard to diff because the file is almost completely different each time due to things being reordered.

I know it can be readable since pretty much everything is but I said "it cant be easy" thanks that you said, its reorder and reranged most of the time

 

[Natmax]

Link's jab now does 2/2.5/5 instead of 2/3/5 . In older patch two hits would always give you 5%, now it gives 4% half of the time

 

[[Deuce]]

What are all these for Marth in the data dump? It looks like they're IASA frames according to mastercore but its not in the OP

Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[219][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[21A][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[21B][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[21C][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[21D][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[21E][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[21F][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[220][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[229][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[22A][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[22B][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[22C][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[22D][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[22E][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[22F][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[230][2] from 42 to 40

Besides that, only frame data that looks changed besides that is rolls, spotdodge, uptilt, dolphin slash, and these two:

Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[14][10] from 36.0 to 33.0
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[14][19] from 42.0 to 39.0

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/param-diff-128-144/fighter_param_vl_marth.bin.txt
http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore3/diff/128-to-144/marth

 

[A_Kae]

What are all these for Marth in the data dump? It looks like they're IASA frames according to mastercore but its not in the OP



Besides that, only frame data that looks changed besides that is rolls, spotdodge, uptilt, dolphin slash, and these two:



http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/param-diff-128-144/fighter_param_vl_marth.bin.txt
http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore3/diff/128-to-144/marth

All the 42 > 40 are neutral specials + customs FAF.

36 > 33 is crescent slashlanding lag. 42 > 39 is dolphin jump landing lag.

It's all in the OP already.

 

[[Deuce]]

All the 42 > 40 are neutral specials + customs FAF.

36 > 33 is crescent slashlanding lag. 42 > 39 is dolphin jump landing lag.

It's all in the OP already.

No its not.

• Neutral Air
  • Marth first hit damage increased 2%/3% → 3%/4%
  • Lucina first hit damage increased 2.375% → 3.325%~
  • Marth second hit damage increased 6%/8% → 7%/9%
  • Lucina second hit damage increased 6.55% → 7.6%~
• Up Tilt
  • End frame reduced 39 → 36
  • Lucina damage increased 6.65%/7.125% → 7.6%~/8.1%~ (early/late)
• Forward Air landing lag reduced 18 → 16
• Up Air landing lag reduced 16 → 14
• Down Air landing lag reduced 28 → 24
• Back Air landing lag reduced 19 → 17
• Dolphin Slash (Up Special) landing lag reduced 23 → 20 (customs affected)
• Shield Breaker (Neutral Special) end frame reduced 52 → 50 (customs affected)
• Dancing Blade input window duration on first, second and third strikes increased by 5 frames

Dancing blade only specifies input window duration, no IASA frames mentioned at all.

Aerials are noted to have changed when there is no supporting data besides empirical testing

 

[A_Kae]

No its not.


Dancing blade only specifies input window duration, no IASA frames mentioned at all.

Aerials are noted to have changed when there is no supporting data besides empirical testing

Dancing blade didn't get changed aside from the input window. What you posted is shield breaker+customs. Which is mentioned. 2 total frame reduction.

Edit: Also, right now, frame counting 60fps recordings is the only way of getting landing lag for aerials. Multiple seperate tests have confirmed that it's reduced, and all have the same amounts.

 

[Waroh]

Alright, here's proof of the differences to how Wario's bike acts between versions.

In 1.0.8:

And in 1.1.0:

 

[[Deuce]]

Dancing blade didn't get changed aside from the input window. What you posted is shield breaker+customs. Which is mentioned. 2 total frame reduction.

Edit: Also, right now, frame counting 60fps recordings is the only way of getting landing lag for aerials. Multiple tests have confirmed that it's reduced, and all have the same amounts.

How come Shield Breaker has so many entries? Also is it 52-50 (OP) or 42-40 (data)

 

[A_Kae]

How come Shield Breaker has so many entries? Also is it 52-50 or 42-40

The charge state of SB(+customs) isn't counted in the 42>40. There's 11 frames of minimum charge time, so it went from 52 total to 50 total (53 > 51 FAF).

It's got so many entries because there are different subactions for it uncharged, charged, grounded and aerial. And customs for each of those. So there ends up being a lot of them.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Alright, here's proof of the differences to how Wario's bike acts between versions.

In 1.0.8:
https://youtu.be/nlF2-6aNKBw

And in 1.1.0:
https://youtu.be/FMaxBS2G05Y

I would've sworn that it worked the current way even in the past, but your video says otherwise. Hmm.

Either way, that's good, because that looks massively degenerate for camping in the 1.0.8 video.

 

[Waroh]

I would've sworn that it worked the current way even in the past, but your video says otherwise. Hmm.

Either way, that's good, because that looks massively degenerate for camping in the 1.0.8 video.

Hah, yeah. I believe it was very abusable versus certain characters.

I guess there was no problem with my 1.1.0 upload though? Weird... it wasn't working for me.

Edit: I guess it's just smashboards. It goes to my old link which I edited out shortly for some reason when I click it. It can be fixed by manually highlighting and copying it if anyone else is having trouble with my 1.1.0 link.

 

[LancerStaff]

Still never got an answer if Pit's rapid jab has a different KB angle somewhere...

 

[Balgorxz]

Me hoping next patch that Marth, Roy, and Mario's sourspots are nerfed... especially Mario.

nerfing marth sourspot would be a buff, that's one of the main reasons why he can combo in other games, in smash 4 he has a strong sourspot so the KB it deals is a lot higher and does not allow for more followups.

 

[Renlock]

Ryu and roy still godlike. (no buff or nerfs detected.)