Tournament Mode [1.1.0] Community Patch Notes

[FullMoon]

I'm 99% sure footstool shenanigans doesn't work anymore. I tried Lucas infinites and such and it didn't work at all.

震えろ pic.twitter.com/VkB8t1mqsW

— 鮑 (@pkawabi) July 31, 2015

Greninja got new footstool shenanigans in this update so yeah no lol.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I've still got piles of unlabelled changed parameters in Mii Swordfighter and Wii Fit Trainer. We may have uncovered all the WFT stuff through play already (and just haven't connected the dots), but I'm certain we're missing a LOT on Mii Swordfighter.

I can't find anything else different about Mii Swordfighter's moves. Everything seems to operate as it did before.

I'm 99% sure footstool shenanigans doesn't work anymore. I tried Lucas infinites and such and it didn't work at all.

If it's the one I saw a lot of pre-patch, that's because the middle hitbox of Lucas' dtilt doesn't jab lock anymore due to having a defined angle.

 

[Thinkaman]

Did we find any landing lag changes, besides Marth/Lucina stuff and Charizard bair?

 

[Elite Smasher]

I can't find anything else different about Mii Swordfighter's moves. Everything seems to operate as it did before.



If it's the one I saw a lot of pre-patch, that's because the middle hitbox of Lucas' dtilt doesn't jab lock anymore due to having a defined angle.

So what about Wii Fit Trainer?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Did we find any landing lag changes, besides Marth/Lucina stuff and Charizard bair?

We already covered everything on day 2 of the patch. Well, most of everything. I never input my codes for the DLC characters on my 3DS version. And I can't do that now without patching the game. So those four are prime suspects for people to check landing lag on.

So what about Wii Fit Trainer?

WFT is a mess. I wouldn't know what they need help confirming because its all mystery parameters. All I can tell you is that I didn't find any endlag changes besides side B. Both in the IASA frame and the special landing lag from canceling the move and landing back on the ground. For the default side B, both lags were reduced, but for custom side Bs, just the lag from cancelling the move was reduced. Which is sort of a genius way of making default more relevant as a move.

 

[Winner-Bit]

So, no changes to Roy or Ryu? Kinda odd that Lucas is the only one to receive modification/adjustment, and a lot of it at that.

In any case, good news for me as a Roy main.

 

[Methacrylate]

So, no changes to Roy or Ryu? Kinda odd that Lucas is the only one to receive modification/adjustment, and a lot of it at that.

In any case, good news for me as a Roy main.

There were changes to Roy:
http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore3/diff/128-to-144/roy

As you can see there. I believe the current theory is that this is Roy's up b. Prior to the patch Roy was able to one hit KO opponents by only hitting with one of the hitboxes in the up b. The changes show some alterations to a few hitboxes as well as adding new hitboxes. All probably done to remove the one hit KO, at least I have not been able to accomplish it nor have I seen videos of people doing so in 1.1.0.

 

[Moydow]

There are no changes to the original hitboxes, it only added new ones.
@ Shaya can we have this added to the OP so people stop asking, or are you waiting for more details on what the changes actually do?

 

[erico9001]

hey uhh the frames for back slash in the op are wrong. It was originally thought to be reduced to frame 25 from silentdoom's friend, who did a frame by frame test. But he did it against an opponent flat on the ground in front of him rather than one above him. Back Slash's hitbox comes out above him, not in front. And... it's frame 22. 21.7 technically... Not sure what a decimal in frame data does here. The frame speed modifier is .7.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

hey uhh the frames for back slash in the op are wrong. It was originally thought to be reduced to frame 25 from silentdoom's friend, who did a frame by frame test. But he did it against an opponent flat on the ground in front of him rather than one above him. Back Slash's hitbox comes out above him, not in front. And... it's frame 22. 21.7 technically... Not sure what a decimal in frame data does here. The frame speed modifier is .7.

I can confirm this, it's start-up is 22 frames. I also mentioned this in that long post I made of the endlag/start-up changes.

 

[GP2]

Okay I don't know if anyone has already brought this up and it might just be placebo but....Has anybody checked out Greninja's up air. The hits seem to link more consistently ever since the update (especially when opponents are hit in the middle of the attack)

 

[Methacrylate]

Okay I don't know if anyone has already brought this up and it might just be placebo but....Has anybody checked out Greninja's up air. The hits seem to link more consistently ever since the update (especially when opponents are hit in the middle of the attack)

This would be a placebo. I know it is not specifically stated on the OP, but the filled in star in the right most column indicates that all changes in the data were accounted for. I look at Greninja's file anyways and can confirm that all changed were found and are all mentioned in the OP.

 

[nintendoplayers101]

So what they're saying is that 38 of the 53 characters have been patched? I don't believe that. I feel like everybody has a new feel to them, whether they've been affected or not. Whether it be the animation of the move, or otherwise, I feel like they change little by little in a good way. They're slowly, but surely balancing this game out, which is awesome. This should make for some awesome videos.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So what they're saying is that 38 of the 53 characters have been patched? I don't believe that. I feel like everybody has a new feel to them, whether they've been affected or not. Whether it be the animation of the move, or otherwise, I feel like they change little by little in a good way. They're slowly, but surely balancing this game out, which is awesome. This should make for some awesome videos.

This is placebo.

Outside of the roll/spot dodge changes.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Somebody probably already asked this, but I'm curious if tech rolls and ledge rolls were affected as much as dodge rolls.

 

[King Omega]

Has it always been possible to cancel Falcon's down-air landing lag on the edge of a platform? Either that's possible now or I'm going crazy, because I keep doing it (or hallucinating it) by complete accident on Battlefield and then forget to save a replay.

 

[Shaya]

You can edge/ledge cancel just about everything. Standard mechanic.

Somebody probably already asked this, but I'm curious if tech rolls and ledge rolls were affected as much as dodge rolls.

Unless that invincibility is in a different file, then no. ALTHOUGH I have been confirmation biasing easier to punish tech rolls lately though (but its probably more to do with it being MARTH having less lag).

 

[LancerStaff]

We have completed Dark Pit such that all changes in the data have been assigned. Only Dark Pit's arrows have changed, all 3 custom versions, each does roughly 0.4% more damage. There were no changes in the data to Dark Pit's jab. Pit's jab has had the hitboxes increase in size to his rapid jab with a decrease in z-axis displacement which should mean that it is more consistent.

In short, those feelings you have on the rapid jab are a placebo for Dark Pit but are true for Pit.

Did you look at the knockback of the rapid hits? Because that's what would of changed in this situation. The hitbox change appears to be a fix for opponents DIing inward with the new (?) inward knockback, since the hitbox got bigger at the base instead of outward according to my testing.

Before, people could just jump out of the move. A hitbox that spreads to the handle of the blade wouldn't help here.

 

[Nobie]

Would anyone be able to check if Mewtwo still suffers from the worst ledge getup in the universe?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Mii Brawler's Burning Dropkick (Side B 2) has increased knockback. The data suggests it is an increase in BKB but don't ask me how much. It also suggests a change in some frame count, but I checked and checked and can't find any difference in endlag, charge time, or the window in which you can grab ledges.

 

[Schiffe]

Mii Brawler's Burning Dropkick (Side B 2) has increased knockback. The data suggests it is an increase in BKB but don't ask me how much. It also suggests a change in some frame count, but I checked and checked and can't find any difference in endlag, charge time, or the window in which you can grab ledges.

Assuming this is what you mean, it is quite simple to know the decimal value of these.

Use this website and try literally writing the 0x0 values as-is in the "Hex Value" thingy.

The KBG changed from 82 to 100
The BKB changed from 20 to 40

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Assuming this is what you mean, it is quite simple to know the decimal value of these.

Use this website and try literally writing the 0x0 values as-is in the "Hex Value" thingy.

The KBG changed from 82 to 100
The BKB changed from 20 to 40

How handy. I think it's amazing that hexidecimal still exists in game code today. I remember trying to interpret this in the coding for Final Fantasy for the NES in high school. But back then, I didn't yet comprehend a numbering system that doesn't follow base ten.

Looking at the angle for Mii Gunner's Lunar Launch (Up B 1) projectile, we get the angular change: 0x46 -> 0x37. This comes out to 70° - > 55°. Sure enough, previous data dumps have the move at 70 degrees. @ Shaya can you update this in the OP?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm a noob at hex, can someone explain to me how the **** damage values work on throws? No, don't tell me about throws that have active hitboxes. I just want to know why in the world 0x40a00000 translates to 5 damage and whatnot.

 

[Schiffe]

How handy. I think it's amazing that hexidecimal still exists in game code today. I remember trying to interpret this in the coding for Final Fantasy for the NES in high school. But back then, I didn't yet comprehend a numbering system that doesn't follow base ten.

Looking at the angle for Mii Gunner's Lunar Launch (Up B 1) projectile, we get the angular change: 0x46 -> 0x37. This comes out to 70° - > 55°. Sure enough, previous data dumps have the move at 70 degrees. @ Shaya can you update this in the OP?

Well, I'm not entirely sure how Dantarion converts the fighter bin files, but it seems that it converted some Hex Code into a more simplified Hex Code instead of the decimal I had last patch

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Well, I'm not entirely sure how Dantarion converts the fighter bin files, but it seems that it converted some Hex Code into a more simplified Hex Code instead of the decimal I had last patch

His dump paints a different picture for the burning dropkick. In his, Knockback growth has no change with 0x3c. That's 60. And Base knockback is changed from 0x4c to 0x55. That's 76 to 85. Here's where things get iffy. In this pastebin of 3DS 1.04, it supports the reverse of Dantarions numbers. The pastebin says 76 growth and 60 base. Now, that pastebin has always been riddled with mixups and errors, so I wouldn't be surprised if that happened here. The point is that since that pastebin is derived from Dantarion's work, the numbers seem consistent. Your numbers for the moves knockback don't correlate at all with Dantarion's. Any ideas for the discrepancy?

 

[Schiffe]

His dump paints a different picture for the burning dropkick. In his, Knockback growth has no change with 0x3c. That's 60. And Base knockback is changed from 0x4c to 0x55. That's 76 to 85. Here's where things get iffy. In this pastebin of 3DS 1.04, it supports the reverse of Dantarions numbers. The pastebin says 76 growth and 60 base. Now, that pastebin has always been riddled with mixups and errors, so I wouldn't be surprised if that happened here. The point is that since that pastebin is derived from Dantarion's work, the numbers seem consistent. Your numbers for the moves knockback don't correlate at all with Dantarion's. Any ideas for the discrepancy?

My bad.. I looked at the wrong attack. I looked at SPECIALAIRN2MAX instead of SPECIALS2

76 to 85

I'm a noob at hex, can someone explain to me how the **** damage values work on throws? No, don't tell me about throws that have active hitboxes. I just want to know why in the world 0x40a00000 translates to 5 damage and whatnot.

Try using this website

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

My bad.. I looked at the wrong attack. I looked at SPECIALAIRN2MAX instead of SPECIALS2

So Ultimate Uppercut (neutral B 2) has increases in knockback? Could you investigate further? We only noted a difference in charge time in this patch.

I've been looking at Wii Fit Trainer's Side B, and I feel like I see a difference in how long the ball remains active before disappearing. Though I am testing between a 3DS pre-patch and Wii U post-patch. So the ball's duration seems to be reduced by a fixed amount for each bounce. By shooting from high enough that there's only one bounce across FD, I find that the ball stays active for approximately 3 seconds. But in post-patch, it's active for longer, at least 4 seconds (again, my approximation). But there's another testing method.

If you perform a Side B from a ledge hang to shoot the ball low to the ground across a stage, the ball seems to stay active enough to bounce 4 times before disappearing. While in pre-patch, it was active long enough to bounce just twice. The ball is not bouncing quite as high in post-patch, which should explain the increase in the number of bounces. Though there are many things that this could suggest instead of a trajectory change for the ball.

From my testing, I think the ball's duration seems to be reduced by a fixed amount for each bounce, though I'm not certain this is a feature of the ball's function. I had been investigating whether the ball's duration was increased from ~3seconds to ~4+. Other various tests support that the duration was increased - so long as my theory about bounces reducing that duration holds true.

I dunno what sort of verdict to have. All I know for certain is that the move is bouncing differently when performed from a ledge hang. Lowered launch trajectory? Duration increase? Heavier ball? Without a solid testing method, I can't confirm any or a combination of the three confidently.

 

[Tito Maas]

So on the reduced invulnerability frames, is it one less starting invincibility frame or one less ending invincibility frame?

Did you look at the knockback of the rapid hits? Because that's what would of changed in this situation. The hitbox change appears to be a fix for opponents DIing inward with the new (?) inward knockback, since the hitbox got bigger at the base instead of outward according to my testing.

Before, people could just jump out of the move. A hitbox that spreads to the handle of the blade wouldn't help here.

So can people fall/jump out of the Dark Pit rapid jab

 

[A_Kae]

So on the reduced invulnerability frames, is it one less starting invincibility frame or one less ending invincibility frame?

One less ending. For example, if the roll/spotdodge was intangible on frames 4-19 before, it's 4-18 now.

 

[LancerStaff]

So can people fall/jump out of the Dark Pit rapid jab

Well yes, but standing CPUs and Sandbags appear to fall out later.

Actually, I'm not entirely sure Pit's rapid jab finisher was buffed on 3DS. Or Dark Pit's was buffed on 3DS... Something's screwy here.

 

[_gold_]

Amateur question, but can someone explain to me what growth is exactly? For example:

Growth increased 108 → 117

 

[Shaya]

The knockback growth of the move scales with damage faster than before.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

@ Shaya Those numbers for Brawler's Burning Dropkick's knockback are off in the OP. We were briefly looking at the wrong move's knockback values. The actual change is Base knockback 76 -> 85. Growth and damage are unaffected.

 

[Schiffe]

So Ultimate Uppercut (neutral B 2) has increases in knockback? Could you investigate further? We only noted a difference in charge time in this patch.
.

Well, there was a change to the knockback of the Grounded variations of the action named "SPECIALN2" (which, by logic, can be assumed to be Neutral Special 2). It is an increase in Knockback Growth and Base Knockback

 

[Zage]

So was that rumor of shield regen being slower true?

 

[Vipermoon]

So how exactly was Marth's landing lag on his aerials and his up Bs reduced? IASA or animation speed?

 

[A_Kae]

So how exactly was Marth's landing lag on his aerials and his up Bs reduced? IASA or animation speed?

Looking closely at this video (at least for fair and bair), it seems to be you can interrupt the animation earlier.

 

[Finferno00]

Ok I'm pretty sure that you can't just footstool someone and have them need a neutral get up when high above the stage

 

[dbwithlemon]

Has anyone thought to look into the Size oddities with Mii's(particularly ) with the new patches?

Basically how a max size and min size mii have almost identical reach despite their models being wildly different sizes.
This leads to the hitbox being bigger than the animation for small miis, and smaller than animation for large miis.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Has anyone thought to look into the Size oddities with Mii's(particularly ) with the new patches?

Basically how a max size and min size mii have almost identical reach despite their models being wildly different sizes.
This leads to the hitbox being bigger than the animation for small miis, and smaller than animation for large miis.

I was once browsing threads on the Mii Swordfighter boards and it sounds like they found out long ago that while Mii Size does dictate the visible size of the sword, the hitbox size for the sword never grows or shrinks with it.