Tournament Mode [1.1.0] Community Patch Notes

[dbwithlemon]

I was once browsing threads on the Mii Swordfighter boards and it sounds like they found out long ago that while Mii Size does dictate the visible size of the sword, the hitbox size for the sword never grows or shrinks with it.

Thats exactly what I'm talking about. I was wondering if anyone has tested if that changed.

The issue causes a max size swordsman to not have a hitbox at the end of his sword, where a minimum size swordsman has a hitbox ahead of his sword.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Thats exactly what I'm talking about. I was wondering if anyone has tested if that changed.

The issue causes a max size swordsman to not have a hitbox at the end of his sword, where a minimum size swordsman has a hitbox ahead of his sword.

Oh, I thought you were phrasing it as "has this always been the case before the update?". Well the most criminal example of this issue is when you try to Utilt somebody on a platform with a large Mii. Comparing between 3DS and Wii U with the same sized large Mii, you have the same difficulty hitting them before and after the patch. The sword trails are still inaccurate.

 

[Vipermoon]

Looking closely at this video (at least for fair and bair), it seems to be you can interrupt the animation earlier.

Never knew of this vid.

Watching this at 1/4 speed and looking at the position of things like the cape, sword, head, body, and dust cloud; I'm guessing:

Fair: IASA
Bair: IASA
Uair: IASA
Dair: Animation
Up B: Animation no doubt

We can't see Nair but it's okay.

 

[AndrewOshawott]

It's been like a week and no one except me noticed... Wii Fit Trainer has ANOTHER buff, that no one noticed becuz no ones plays with customs. -.- Sweeping Sun Salutation (Neutral B 3) It heals 3% now instead of 2%

 

[Shaya]

All of them had a +1% healing increase, although not specific (customs affected) is implying the changes were shared.
But whoops, I didn't have that on wii fit trainer's sun salutation *fixed*

 

[Joshua Flynn]

I know the rules state nothing unsubstantiated, and I am new here, and I don't have the tools to investigate (could someone investigate for me?), but as a regular duck hunt duo player, the can feels like it's less sensitive to exploding when hitting players than prior to 1.1.0 (perhaps a sweet/sour box modification?), as if DHD needed any nerfs!

 

[Methacrylate]

I know the rules state nothing unsubstantiated, and I am new here, and I don't have the tools to investigate (could someone investigate for me?), but as a regular duck hunt duo player, the can feels like it's less sensitive to exploding when hitting players than prior to 1.1.0 (perhaps a sweet/sour box modification?), as if DHD needed any nerfs!

The filled in star next Duck Hunt in the OP indicates that all changes in the data dump have been accounted for and thus you are experiencing a placebo.

 

[TriTails]

The filled in star next Duck Hunt in the OP indicates that all changes in the data dump have been accounted for and thus you are experiencing a placebo.

Wait. Does this mean Luigi still has changes that aren't in the OP yet?

BTW. The Super Jump Punch also got a KB buff, not only Fiery Jump Punch.

 

[Spooks]

Nothing confirmed on Rosalina?

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Went through Roy's frame data. He didn't receive any frame changes, but he did receive shieldlag changes on all of his sweetspots as well as his Double Edge Dance.

Jab: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 2 frames, 10 -> 8. Safer on shield.

F-tilt: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 2 frames, 12 -> 10. Safer on shield.

D-tilt: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 2 frames, 11 -> 9. Safer on shield.

U-tilt: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 2 frames, 12 -> 10. Safer on shield.

Dash Attack: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 3 frames, 13 -> 10. Safer on shield.

F-smash: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 3 frames, 17 -> 14. Safer on shield.

D-smash: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot front hit reduced by 3 frames, 14 -> 11. Self hitlag on a sweetspot back hit also reduced by 3 frames, 15 -> 12. Safer on shield.

U-smash: Self shieldlag reduced by 2 frames, from 8 -> 6.

N-air: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 2 frames: 9 -> 7 for the first hit, 10 -> 8 for the second hit. Safer on shield.

F-air: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 2 frames: 11 -> 9. Safer on shield.

B-air: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 2 frames, 12 -> 10. Safer on shield.

D-air: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 3 frames, 14 -> 11. Safer on shield.

U-air: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 2 frames, 10 -> 8. Safer on shield.

Double Edge Dance: Self shieldlag on Neutral 1-3, Up 1-3, and Down 2-3 reduced by 1 frame. Self shieldlag on Neutral 4 reduced by 3 frames, 12 -> 9. Self shieldlag on Up 4 reduced by 3 frames, 13 -> 10. Self shieldlag on the final hit of Down 4 reduced by 2 frames, 11 -> 9. All of this makes each version safer on shield.

Updated my frame data sheet accordingly.

Note that all of this ONLY applies to shieldlag. Hitlag is the same as it was before. And all of his sourspots were unchanged.

I wonder if this is a universal thing for characters who have hitlag modifiers, since this is also the case with Link's spin attack/f-air/f-smash 2 changes that I noted previously; hitlag is unchanged, but the self shieldlag was reduced. Perhaps I should check Ryu and Marth next.

 

[Vipermoon]

Went through Roy's frame data. He didn't receive any frame changes, but he did receive shieldlag changes on all of his sweetspots as well as his Double Edge Dance.

Jab: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 2 frames, 10 -> 8. Safer on shield.

F-tilt: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 2 frames, 12 -> 10. Safer on shield.

D-tilt: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 2 frames, 11 -> 9. Safer on shield.

U-tilt: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 2 frames, 12 -> 10. Safer on shield.

Dash Attack: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 3 frames, 13 -> 10. Safer on shield.

F-smash: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 3 frames, 17 -> 14. Safer on shield.

D-smash: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot front hit reduced by 3 frames, 14 -> 11. Self hitlag on a sweetspot back hit also reduced by 3 frames, 15 -> 12. Safer on shield.

U-smash: Self shieldlag reduced by 2 frames, from 8 -> 6.

N-air: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 2 frames: 9 -> 7 for the first hit, 10 -> 8 for the second hit. Safer on shield.

F-air: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 2 frames: 11 -> 9. Safer on shield.

B-air: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 2 frames, 12 -> 10. Safer on shield.

D-air: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 3 frames, 14 -> 11. Safer on shield.

U-air: Self shieldlag on a sweetspot hit reduced by 2 frames, 10 -> 8. Safer on shield.

Double Edge Dance: Self shieldlag on Neutral 1-3, Up 1-3, and Down 2-3 reduced by 1 frame. Self shieldlag on Neutral 4 reduced by 3 frames, 12 -> 9. Self shieldlag on Up 4 reduced by 3 frames, 13 -> 10. Self shiellag on the final hit of Down 4 reduced by 2 frames, 11 -> 9. All of this makes each version safer on shield.

Updated my frame data sheet accordingly.

Note that all of this ONLY applies to shieldlag. Hitlag is the same as it was before. And all of his sourspots were unchanged.

I wonder if this is a universal thing for characters who have hitlag modifiers, since this is also the case with Link's spin attack/f-air/f-smash 2 changes that I noted previously; hitlag is unchanged, but the self shieldlag was reduced. Perhaps I should check Ryu and Marth next.

Wow those are amazing buffs. I can't believe they went unnoticed. Marth and Ryu would make sense to check if hitlag is the same for Roy. But in what way can hitlag on shields (shieldlag) be reduced? I thought it was 100% reliant on hitlag. And don't Roy's sour spots also have hitlag modifiers? How did those stay the same against shields?

 

[LordWilliam1234]

I believe it was 100% reliant on hitlag previously. Which makes me wonder if this was an engine change, since this applies to both Link and Roy so far.

Or it was always possible to differentiate between shieldlag and hitlag via modifiers but they never made the two values different. I dunno. Like I said I think I should check Marth and Ryu before we make any assumptions.

EDIT: Yep, Ryu got the same kind of changes. Hitlag is the same but shieldlag is reduced. I'll post the numbers here shortly.

 

[PapaJ]

I believe it was 100% reliant on hitlag previously. Which makes me wonder if this was an engine change, since this applies to both Link and Roy so far.

Or it was always possible to differentiate between shieldlag and hitlag via modifiers but they never made the two values different. I dunno. Like I said I think I should check Marth and Ryu before we make any assumptions.

EDIT: Yep, Ryu got the same kind of changes. Hitlag is the same but shieldlag is reduced. I'll post the numbers here shortly.

Hey, quick question. usually I use Kurogane for frame data and when I took a look at yours...well theres a lot more data. I just wanted to ask what the Block-freezes mean, Blockstun, and Advantages mean. Sorry if this is a noob question but I'd really like to be able to understand your frame data.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Hey, quick question. usually I use Kurogane for frame data and when I took a look at yours...well theres a lot more data. I just wanted to ask what the Block-freezes mean, Blockstun, and Advantages mean. Sorry if this is a noob question but I'd really like to be able to understand your frame data.

Block-freeze is how long a character is frozen when you strike a shield with an attack. Blockstun is how long the opponent is stuck in their shield after the Block-freeze ends. Advantage is how much faster (or slower) you recover from your attack compared to your opponent recovering from Blockstun. So if you're -16, your opponent recovered 16 frames before you can act again.

The two different advantage values are for dropping a shield (which takes 8 frames), or for if your opponent were to use an OOS option (which ignores shield drop frames).

Also, got all the numbers for the shieldlag changes for Ryu. Updated my frame data sheet as well.

Jab 1: Self Shieldlag reduced by 2 frames, 10 -> 8.

Jab 2: Self shieldlag reduced by 3 frames, 11 -> 8.

Jab 3: Self shieldlag reduced by 3 frames, 12 -> 9.

Jab (Strong): Self shieldlag reduced by 3 frames, 15 -> 12.

F-tilt (Light): Self shieldlag reduced by 3 frames, 13 -> 10.

F-tilt (Strong): Self shieldlag on the first hit reduced by 3 frames, 11 -> 8. Self shieldlag on the second hit reduced by 3 frames, 13 -> 10.

D-tilt (Light): Self shieldlag reduced by 3 frames, 12 -> 9.

D-tilt (Strong): Self shieldlag reduced by 2 frames, 13 -> 11.

U-tilt (Light): Self shieldlag reduced by 2 frames, 10 -> 8.

U-tilt (Strong): Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 17 -> 13.

Dash Attack: Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 17 -> 13.

F-smash: Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 20 -> 16.

D-smash: Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 20 -> 16.

U-smash: Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 20 -> 16.

N-air: Self shieldlag on the strong hit reduced by 3 frames, 14 -> 11. Self shieldlag on the weak hit reduced by 2 frames, 11 -> 9.

F-air: Self shieldlag on the front hit reduced by 4 frames, 19 -> 15. Self shieldlag on the back hit reduced by 3 frames, 14 -> 11.

D-air: Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 19 -> 15.

U-air: Self shieldlag reduced by 3 frames for both hits, 12 -> 9 for the first and 13 -> 10 for the second.

Focus Attack (level 1): Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 19 -> 15.

Focus Attack (level 2): Self shieldlag reduced by 5 frames, 22 -> 17.

Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku: Self shieldlag reduced by 3 frames for the initial hit, reduced by 4 frames for the remaining hits (all versions)

Shoryuken (Light): Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 20 -> 16.

Shoryuken (Medium): Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 22 -> 18.

Shoryuken (Heavy): Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 23 -> 19.

 

[PapaJ]

Block-freeze is how long a character is frozen when you strike a shield with an attack. Blockstun is how long the opponent is stuck in their shield after the Block-freeze ends. Advantage is how much faster (or slower) you recover from your attack compared to your opponent recovering from Blockstun. So if you're -16, your opponent recovered 16 frames before you can act again.

The two different advantage values are for dropping a shield (which takes 8 frames), or for if your opponent were to use an OOS option (which ignores shield drop frames).

Also, got all the numbers for the shieldlag changes for Ryu. Updated my frame data sheet as well.

Jab 1: Self Shieldlag reduced by 2 frames, 10 -> 8.

Jab 2: Self shieldlag reduced by 3 frames, 11 -> 8.

Jab 3: Self shieldlag reduced by 3 frames, 12 -> 9.

Jab (Strong): Self shieldlag reduced by 3 frames, 15 -> 12.

F-tilt (Light): Self shieldlag reduced by 3 frames, 13 -> 10.

F-tilt (Strong): Self shieldlag on the first hit reduced by 3 frames, 11 -> 8. Self shieldlag on the second hit reduced by 3 frames, 13 -> 10.

D-tilt (Light): Self shieldlag reduced by 3 frames, 12 -> 9.

D-tilt (Strong): Self shieldlag reduced by 2 frames, 13 -> 11.

U-tilt (Light): Self shieldlag reduced by 2 frames, 10 -> 8.

U-tilt (Strong): Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 17 -> 13.

Dash Attack: Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 17 -> 13.

F-smash: Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 20 -> 16.

D-smash: Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 20 -> 16.

U-smash: Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 20 -> 16.

N-air: Self shieldlag on the strong hit reduced by 3 frames, 14 -> 11. Self shieldlag on the weak hit reduced by 2 frames, 11 -> 9.

F-air: Self shieldlag on the front hit reduced by 4 frames, 19 -> 15. Self shieldlag on the back hit reduced by 3 frames, 14 -> 11.

D-air: Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 19 -> 15.

U-air: Self shieldlag reduced by 3 frames for both hits, 12 -> 9 for the first and 13 -> 10 for the second.

Focus Attack (level 1): Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 19 -> 15.

Focus Attack (level 2): Self shieldlag reduced by 5 frames, 22 -> 17.

Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku: Self shieldlag reduced by 3 frames for the initial hit, reduced by 4 frames for the remaining hits (all versions)

Shoryuken (Light): Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 20 -> 16.

Shoryuken (Medium): Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 22 -> 18.

Shoryuken (Heavy): Self shieldlag reduced by 4 frames, 23 -> 19.

Thanks so much man. Also thank god they made Ryu a bit safer on shield.

 

[Athorment]

Is it me? Or did Ryu needed those tweaks... while ROY DID NOT!
I feel Roy is rewarded the most of all the Fire Emblem characters, specially with armored Up B and super forgiving sweetspots. His Side Smash sweetspot can kill around 60% near the ledge, comes fast and has very little end lag... unlike Marth's who you have to space perfectly for the tipper or it whiffs with a lot of end lag... and dont even get me started on Ike's having a sourspot on the tip, being slow as heck in both start up and end lag and killing at similar percentages to Roy.

Now, dont get me wrong, I love playing as Roy.. but he can get a lot of kills out of whiffed attacks much more easily than Marth or Ike with little to no risk. Thankfully Marth and Ike have been getting buffs on recent patches, but they still feel subpar in a lot of areas where Roy just gets to power through with Marth's Speed and Ike's strength. So it boils down to "Give Roy's side smash more end lag, and let the other two catch up to him" imo, Nothing too big for the young lion.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Changes to shieldlag. Interesting approach to making moves safer on shield. Somebody that blocked the move on a whim will have a harder time punishing, while somebody that blocked on a proper read should still have the same advantage as before. I wonder if this is a better approach to making shields less powerful than simply increasing shield stun like a lot of us wanted? It takes a lot of understanding of a character to decide something as intricate as reducing shieldlag on block for moves.

@ LordWilliam1234 I neglected to ask, but can you check on the landing lag of the four DLC characters and make sure they match up to previous patches? I was not able to test those four when running through the cast. And I'm not sure anybody else has checked on a whim. It would seem that landing lag on aerials aren't discovered in the game files (but they found special fall landing lag which is peculiar).

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Somebody that blocked the move on a whim will have a harder time punishing, while somebody that blocked on a proper read should still have the same advantage as before.

Incorrect. Perfect shielding does not have any change on shield-freeze or shieldstun. Advantage against a normal shield is the same as advantage against a perfect shield.

I neglected to ask, but can you check on the landing lag of the four DLC characters and make sure they match up to previous patches? I was not able to test those four when running through the cast. And I'm not sure anybody else has checked on a whim. It would seem that landing lag on aerials aren't discovered in the game files (but they found special fall landing lag which is peculiar).

Roy's frame data is unchanged, aside from that shieldlag thing I mentioned. Gonna check through the rest of Ryu's frame data next.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Incorrect. Perfect shielding does not have any change on shield-freeze or shieldstun. Advantage against a normal shield is the same as advantage against a perfect shield.

I wasn't suggesting perfect shielding. You can block an attack intentionally but still be early on your shield input. It's not optimal, but it happens because players are not robots. What I'm alluding to is that when people block habitually, they often fail to decide what they want to punish with by the time they regain control. And if they do decide, they wouldn't know at what point they regain control to begin with. Those practiced in a matchup will know that information and pre-meditate their response. Shieldlag reduction won't hinder good players, but will hinder block guesswork.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Well, you said advantage, so I thought you were implying the numbers, not reads.

 

[LancerStaff]

Were hitlag modifiers changed or were general shield mechanics changed? Because after the general roll nerf and the previous shield change (one frame difference universally on shield hit or something in an early update?) I think the later could be possible.

 

[A_Kae]

Were hitlag modifiers changed or were general shield mechanics changed? Because after the general roll nerf and the previous shield change (one frame difference universally on shield hit or something in an early update?) I think the later could be possible.

Hitlag modifers definitely were not changed.

 

[teluoborg]

@ LordWilliam1234 Nice work here but I got a few questions : why do you count the shield drop as 8 frames when everywhere else I read it 7 frames ? How did you come up with this result ?
And about Roy am I reading your sheet well when I see that hitting with the part of the sword that does the least damage gives you better frame advantage on shield because they have less self block-freeze ?

 

[LancerStaff]

Hitlag modifers definitely were not changed.

Shield lag, whatever...

 

[LordWilliam1234]

@ LordWilliam1234 Nice work here but I got a few questions : why do you count the shield drop as 8 frames when everywhere else I read it 7 frames ? How did you come up with this result ?

...

...oops. Big oops. I read somewhere that it was 8 frames (or misread, either way) and have been counting it that way since then. It is 7 frames. So all of my Advantage (Drop) numbers are off by 1 frame. Lemme correct that real quick, just gotta subtract one from them all.

Side note, now I know that perfect shielding doesn't negate shieldstun or shield-freeze, but you do ignore shield drop frames. So vs a perfect shield, advantage is the OOS number I have.

And about Roy am I reading your sheet well when I see that hitting with the part of the sword that does the least damage gives you better frame advantage on shield because they have less self block-freeze ?

You have better frame advantage on the sourspot hits because Roy has less self shieldlag. If you have less shieldlag then your opponent, it's essentially as if the move has more shieldstun. If you have more shieldlag then the opponent, it's like adding recovery frames.

 

[A_Kae]

Shield lag, whatever...

Shield hitlag is the same modifier as hitlag.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Shield hitlag is the same modifier as hitlag.

So...how does this explain the shieldlag changes I've been noting? Because for those moves there's a definite difference between hitlag and shieldlag on those moves now.

 

[A_Kae]

So...how does this explain the shieldlag changes I've been noting? Because for those moves there's a definite difference between hitlag and shieldlag.

TBH I have no idea. This shouldn't be happening. Mastercore doesn't have any change in these moves, whether for hitlag mods or some mystery parameter. So, it must be formula change, although I was certain that hitlag and shield hitlag use the same formula, but that might be false (or changed in 1.1). But then you would expect Roy's tipped hits to also be affected, but you said that they're not.

So, I'm left very confused here. I have no explanation.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

It could still be a formula change. The way the numbers were reduced seems to imply that. Roy's hitlag modifiers on his tippers might just be low enough that they weren't affected.

I'll check through Marth's the next chance I get and see how his was affected.

 

[TriTails]

Uh... noob question.

I know bout hitlag. But what is self shieldlag?

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Uh... noob question.

I know bout hitlag. But what is self shieldlag?

It's how long your character is frozen when you attack an opponent's shield. For some characters this is a different value than how long your opponent is frozen for.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Uh... noob question.

I know bout hitlag. But what is self shieldlag?

The amount of frames (lag) where both attacker and the one shielding are still. Literally the same concept as hitlag, but when somebody is blocking a move rather than getting hit. And like hitlag, there's a difference between shieldlag and shieldstun.

If we can pick out a random character that doesn't have any changes on shieldlag, then we know it's not a global/engine change. If we struggle to find a character without reductions on shieldlag, then we can bet it's an engine change.

Didn't Link's moves get a reduction on shieldlag? I thought we were interpreting that as his many mystery paramater changes that nobody can lock down.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Didn't Link's moves get a reduction on shieldlag?

Only 3: Spin Attack, F-smash 2, and the second hit of F-air. All of these have hitlag modifiers.

My best guess is there was some change to how hitlag modifiers work on shield. It seems to be a universal engine change but I'll need to go through Marth (and possibly Robin, he has some hitlag modifiers too with his Levin Sword) to make sure.

 

[LancerStaff]

TBH I have no idea. This shouldn't be happening. Mastercore doesn't have any change in these moves, whether for hitlag mods or some mystery parameter. So, it must be formula change, although I was certain that hitlag and shield hitlag use the same formula, but that might be false (or changed in 1.1). But then you would expect Roy's tipped hits to also be affected, but you said that they're not.

So, I'm left very confused here. I have no explanation.

If you're confused then why are you telling me otherwise..? You're just spreading misinformation.

 

[A_Kae]

If you're confused then why are you telling me otherwise..? You're just spreading misinformation.

I'm confused because by the mechanics of the game, this shouldn't be happening. But it is. Everything I told you is true.

Most likely, there's been a formula change for shield hitlag, but I can't be sure.

@ LordWilliam1234 I suggest that you look at Ganondorf's f-smash as well. It has no modifier, but high enough damage that there should be a change, if there's a hitlag change.

 

[LancerStaff]

I'm confused because by the mechanics of the game, this shouldn't be happening. But it is. Everything I told you is true.

Most likely, there's been a formula change for shield hitlag, but I can't be sure.

@ LordWilliam1234 I suggest that you look at Ganondorf's f-smash as well. It has no modifier, but high enough damage that there should be a change, if there's a hitlag change.

Didn't I just say that..?

 

[LordWilliam1234]

I suggest that you look at Ganondorf's f-smash as well. It has no modifier, but high enough damage that there should be a change, if there's a hitlag change.

Ganondorf's f-smash is 14 frames of hitlag, both on hit and on shield.

Just to make sure I also checked Warlock Punch, which is still 16 frames of hitlag, both on hit and on shield.

This change here only seems to apply if a move has a hitlag modifier.

 

[Big O]

There doesn't seem to be any changes to the shield sefl-hitlag of moves with low hitlag modifiers as far as I can tell.

Does this new shield self-hitlag change on moves with high hitlag modifiers also affect electric attacks or only electric attacks that also happen to have high hitlag modifiers?

 

[Vipermoon]

I'm going to throw out a hypothesis. Moves with hitlag modifiers greater than 1.0 are somehow changed to have 1.0 modifiers on shields. This makes moves less than 1.0 still safer on shield because they weren't affected.

The question is, is this true? And how was this change made?

Lord William, one way to figure out if they're 1.0 on shields is to look at one of Ryu and Roy's moves and compare it with another 1.0 hitlag modified move of the same damage as see if it's the same shieldlag.

 

[A_Kae]

I'm going to throw out a hypothesis. Moves with hitlag modifiers greater than 1.0 are somehow changed to have 1.0 modifiers on shields. This makes moves less than 1.0 still safer on shield because they weren't affected.

The question is, is this true? And how was this change made?

Lord William, one way to figure out if they're 1.0 on shields is to look at one of Ryu and Roy's moves and compare it with another 1.0 hitlag modified move of the same damage as see if it's the same shieldlag.

I had that thought as well, but Roy's jab and utilt should both do 1 less frame of shield hitlag than they do now if that were the case, by my calculations (and the same is probably true for other moves, but I didn't bother checking any others). Possible that the hitlag formula that I have is wrong, so I'll wait to see if LordWilliam can say more with testing.

As for how this change could be made, keep in mind that the devs have much freer access to the internal workings of smash. Adding some kind of special exception for moves with hitlag modifiers greater than 1, or even just for specific moves, is totally possible.

Edit: By my formula, Roy's dash attack (13%) results in exactly 13 frames of hitlag with the modifier (1.3x), and 10 with a 1.0 modifier. So, it's entirely possible that these moves have a 1.1 (or something else, not that exactly) modifier on shield.