Looticforgothispassword
Smash Ace
IMO splitting is the most dishonest thing you can do, still people seem to accept that perfectly fine. I don't get why this should be such a big thing. He tried to win, he knew the rules, end of story.
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Top ten at Apex 2013 predictions.
- Thread starter hungrybox
- Start date
A couple more things:
Had leffen let it go and Scar would've won, how many would've said "Scar won because he paused"? You can never know how pausing affected your opponent, which is why the rules are there.
Pausing by accident shouldn't happen. You don't go around missing other in-game techskill, how difficult can it be to learn the timing for stealing stocks (assuming that's what happened). If you side+B to death with Fox, it's your fault for messing up your inputs.
Had leffen let it go and Scar would've won, how many would've said "Scar won because he paused"? You can never know how pausing affected your opponent, which is why the rules are there.
Pausing by accident shouldn't happen. You don't go around missing other in-game techskill, how difficult can it be to learn the timing for stealing stocks (assuming that's what happened). If you side+B to death with Fox, it's your fault for messing up your inputs.
Stevo
Smash Champion
Leffen is my favorite antihero
the_CAM_factor
Smash Journeyman
pause should have been turned off anyways, and ive personally seen that happen before and didnt let it affect me. ppl screw up
Warhawk
Smash Lord
What? I wouldn't call accidental pausing cheating lol. And at high level a quick pause probably shouldn't turn the tide of a match except in really specific situations (lol M2K pausing during techchases in friendlies and Taj pausing while being wobbled) and if it does than you should turn the pause option off in the first place. Nothing is wrong with what leffen did (it seems a bit slimy but nothing wrong, its in the rules), I just really hate that rule. In this case it was used more to steal a match than make sure the other side doesn't get a competitive advantage. I really think worst case the match should have to be replayed with pause off if the other side deems it was disruptive since in the first place they should have turned pause off, at least in doubles where accidental pausing happens all the time.
commonyoshi
Smash Hero
I've seen/played thousands of matches with hundreds of people over the years. Leffen is the ONLY person I have seen to have ever enforce that rule like a scrubby scrub scrub.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Most people choose to be gentlemen about it, and don't insist on the rule being carried out. Last time I checked though, there was something about the pause-clause in the rules and nothing about being forced to behave like a gentleman.
MountainGoat
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2012
- Messages
- 247
I never would have tried to enforce that rule. I can't be too mad at him because he's just following the rules and wants to win but it just sort of feels lame. Would you really want to win on a technicality?
Mahie
Smash Lord
In this case, SFAT was pinned down to the left edge and Leffen had already imputted the dash to approach him and try to take him down before Scar comes back. The pause happens at that very time where a 2v1 rush was gonna happen and even SFAT was looking like he was tightening up, ready for defense.
Worst timing for a pause.
Do you know for a fact that it was an accident? How can you tell if someone doesn't use it in a stock stealing situation to make it look like an accident?
If you have to replay the match, then hey, let's all pause when we're losing so we get another chance.
No matter how much we all hate this, there has to be consequences. Some people might be more forgiving than others, but you shouldn't be considered an *** if you enforce the rule.
commonyoshi
Smash Hero
We can tell because NorCal isnt a bunch of *****es.
Is that personal opinion or an official fact? We all want to believe it was an accident, I do too, but that kind of trust is abusable and you can't start treating people different. Who decides who to trust?
And from Mahie it sounds like it actually did have an effect on the outcome, making the accident-or-not discussion pointless. Had it been a neutral situation I could understand people getting pissed, but now I'm even more behind leffen on this.
And from Mahie it sounds like it actually did have an effect on the outcome, making the accident-or-not discussion pointless. Had it been a neutral situation I could understand people getting pissed, but now I'm even more behind leffen on this.
Mahie
Smash Lord
SFAT might have died without the pause and I think that's what pushed Leffen to enforce the rule, when he probably wouldn't have if they had been in neutral positions.
In the end Fox 1v2 is better than Falcon 1v2 against Sheik Fox on FD so it might have been a better situation despite SFAT's damage.
All in all, it's too bad it happened that way.
In the end Fox 1v2 is better than Falcon 1v2 against Sheik Fox on FD so it might have been a better situation despite SFAT's damage.
All in all, it's too bad it happened that way.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Clear win > technicality based win > loss.
From a competitive perspective it's just stupid not to go for the advantage. I'm a bit of an airhead though, so I probably wouldn't push for enforcing the rule either (:
How often do you suicide because your opponent does so? (Yeah I know it has happened, but it's rare.)
Pausing is just another misclick that's just as devastating. Sure it's an artificial rule not built into the game, but without those kind of rules we might as well start disconnecting controllers mid-match. It's not that hard to follow either. Miss the timing? Too bad, your fault just like with everything else in the game.
One could argue that Scar not realizing what he did and giving up the stock willingly is just as douchy, if not more, than leffen being pissed about his disrupted edgeguard, or whatever it was.
For all of you putting so much faith in Scar's honesty, I do hope he was perfectly fine with the outcome.
Pausing is just another misclick that's just as devastating. Sure it's an artificial rule not built into the game, but without those kind of rules we might as well start disconnecting controllers mid-match. It's not that hard to follow either. Miss the timing? Too bad, your fault just like with everything else in the game.
One could argue that Scar not realizing what he did and giving up the stock willingly is just as douchy, if not more, than leffen being pissed about his disrupted edgeguard, or whatever it was.
For all of you putting so much faith in Scar's honesty, I do hope he was perfectly fine with the outcome.
Biglard
Smash Journeyman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2snQglitnk at 8:30 for those who haven't seen it yet
Mahie
Smash Lord
Ok , I just checked again http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=a2snQglitnk#t=516s
It's 'worse' than I thought.
So... yeah. No excuse for that pause, Leffen's behaviour makes sense. I might not have done it myself, but I understand where it's coming from.
It's 'worse' than I thought.
- Scar had 1 stock left and didn't have to steal SFAT's who was on his last stock anyway.
- The pause interrupted Leffen's approach on SFAT when it was the very thing they needed to shift the momentum.
So... yeah. No excuse for that pause, Leffen's behaviour makes sense. I might not have done it myself, but I understand where it's coming from.
Warhawk
Smash Lord
Maybe I'm remembering it wrong but it looked like SFAT was not getting hit by leffen and Scar was over top of leffen. Also Ice I'm pretty sure was not in position for the 2v1.
EDIT: Absolutely right that Scar did not even have to take a stock rendering the whole argument useless. They should have lost the match outright (thought if you pause normally you just lose and the stock forfeit thing is only when you are attempting to steal a stock), not even had the stock forfeit.
Do you know for a fact it was on purpose? I mean you were the one implying he was cheating. Also why would he want to pause when he's coming back and has invincibility frames and the chance to press the advantage? Also your logic of the opponent getting a free match replay is flawed since I said the other party has to enforce the replaying of the match, not the ones who paused. Otherwise the one party gets a warning and if they do it again then they lose. For how common it is for it to happen I feel its kind of over the top for a team to win because someone accidentally paused, especially when if the other team was so concerned about pauses they would have turned pause off like its supposed to be. I guess its probably only common because no one gets punished for it but that's another matter.
For the record, it seems that we agree its not leffen's fault nor his problem since the rules are the rules. The rest just seems to be semantics and whether we agree on the way the rule is set up or not.
Mahie
Smash Lord
Ice was right where he needed to be to continue the combo from uthrow bair from leffen, or needle to cancel anything SFAT would do. It was quite a good position for them, in my opinion.
Didn't I just say "We all want to believe it was an accident, I do too, but that kind of trust is abusable". And that's the problem. I don't know Scar personally, I would trust anyone the same unless it becomes a known problem.
Yeah I didn't think that through really, but it's still disruptive and the pause could be well timed to take the lead. No matter how you look at it, without this rule it *could* be abused.
And maybe it's just me, but Scar should be the one concerned about turning pause off if he knows he has problems with the timing. Not the ones who are part of the 100% who might find pausing disruptive. We don't hold gun accident victims accountable just because they can get shot like everyone else.
edit: OK just saw it. He thought he was out of stocks, it wasn't a missed timing. Don't know if that changes anything though, be more aware of the situation I guess.
Things that were done wrong IMO:
1. Scar didn't accept it at first and went to the TO.
2. The TOs had to discuss it, it should be pretty clear that leffen has the right.
3. In this case, I'd say it was SFAT who should give up his stock, because he was the potential casualty of whatever the pause disrupted, but that might be difficult to write a rule about.
4. The crowd.
5. It was only best of 3...
Wretched
Dankness of Heart
Leffen is depraved and desperate.
You can play by the rules all you want, but that doesn't mean anyone will have a grain of respect for you when you need to win by technicalities.
You can play by the rules all you want, but that doesn't mean anyone will have a grain of respect for you when you need to win by technicalities.
Warhawk
Smash Lord
I guess that's true, I dunno I just think with Scar over top it would have been hard (especially from grab) to do anything really threatening to SFAT, but certainly anything can happen.
Sorry, I must have missed this part. Its really one of those areas in tournament play that's hard to regulate without it looking like the consequences or too high or low with any solution. Hopefully in the future everyone just keeps pause off (screw button checks its your own goddamn controller) and the whole situation is averted.
The Business
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2012
- Messages
- 249
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
well personally i think sfat was in a pretty bad spot and pinned by the ledge.. i probably wouldn't have demanded the stock though. i would just demand 5 sec of no action with sfat starting pinned by the ledge and scar on the other side. I think there are other ways for a gentleman to make up for an accidental pause, but leffen was within the rules, so you can't really fault him
shadrach kabango
Banned via Warnings
Leffen is my hero.
commonyoshi
Smash Hero
You mean when scar paused when LEFFEN MISSED A GRAB? Leffen should be on his knees thanking scar.
Kaizer
Smash Journeyman
#leffennation
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
If somebody had enforced that rule on leffen he would've taken it like a man, just like everyone else who have had this rule enforced on them.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
When following the rules is regarded as an unfair act of betrayal, you lose the right to call yourselves a competitive community.
The Business
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2012
- Messages
- 249
shadrach kabango
Banned via Warnings
/thread .
Van.
Smash Ace
ESAM > Javi
surprised that ppl are surprised about USA's 200th best player beating Mexico's number 1, seems like common sense to me *shrug*
surprised that ppl are surprised about USA's 200th best player beating Mexico's number 1, seems like common sense to me *shrug*
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
I heard Javi went Sheik?
Tarv
Smash Journeyman
Does anyone know who's set to be the first match for the USA vs. World crew battle?
Or dont they know that until it comes time?
Or dont they know that until it comes time?
Qzzy
Smash Journeyman
The stream chat mentioned Javi also lost to Trail. Any confirmation on that?
