Top ten at Apex 2013 predictions.

[Dark Hart]

Ylink vs scorp gf?

 

[SonuvaBeach]

Whether or not Mango's falcon can beat Armada's peach is irrelevant, we will never know. I don't remember if it was the big house 2 aftermath with wobbles or when I housed him, but Mango has said he won't do anything other than Fox on Armada. He thinks it's a cop out to counterpick characters instead of just learning the matchup and overcoming it.

I don't care how many times it's been predicted in the past, mango is winning. This is mango nation and I won't give up on the king.

1. Mango
2. Armada
3. PP
4. KK
5. Hbox

 

[Kink-Link5]

Mango thinks it's a copout to switch out of a winning matchup?

 

[Twinkles]

Peach-Fox = 30-70
Armada-Fox = 70-30

Comparatively, Armada-Falcon is losing for Armada from what I've heard.
Essentially, even though in general Fox is considered a harder MU for Peach than Falcon,
people say Falcon is harder MU for Armada because he doesn't know it as well.

That's pretty much what I think Mango is talking about.

 

[Divinokage]

70-30 is like sheik vs ganon.. there's no way in hell the difficulty of the matchup is the same as that.

 

[Twinkles]

I dunno what actual numbers are, I just like the numbers 70-30 a lot.

EDIT: And vice-versa.

 

[SonuvaBeach]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG33v_PfHpE#t=9m50s

That is what I was referring to. Whether or not he actually holds to it, who knows.

 

[Wake]

It's funny that he thinks it's a cop out, but then chooses Fox against floaties instead of going Falco because he knows that Fox is generally harder for floaties to fight.

 

[Armada]

It's funny that he thinks it's a cop out, but then chooses Fox against floaties instead of going Falco because he knows that Fox is generally harder for floaties to fight.

That's what Im talking about!
Finally someone that understand the scenario.

 

[Mahie]

Armada would you please just challenge Mango to a Peach vs Falcon Money Match or something while you're at it, otherwise even if you win, people will be like " he could have won with Falcon but he kept his pride !"


Also I really wanna see this tbh.

 

[The Star King]

How convenient that the match-up Mango supposedly doesn't want to cop-out of is a winning match-up, while the one Armada is "copping-out" of is a losing one... Not to mention that he chooses which space animal to use according to the match-up anyways. I guess Mango is "copping-out" of Falco vs Peach because he stopped going Falco after losing with him to Armada in Genesis.

 

[KanyeRest]

honestly if mango loses this one, no one can john anymore. armada IS the best in the world. he has to do whatever to win, go puff/falcon/whatever.

 

[Wake]

Well yeah I hope people don't actually believe that CPing to win is a "cop out."

 

[Divinokage]

honestly if mango loses this one, no one can john anymore. armada IS the best in the world. he has to do whatever to win, go puff/falcon/whatever.

He clearly already is, goddamn it how many times do I have to say it. He HAS THE ****ING BELT!!!!

 

[Svetsunov]

honestly if mango loses this one, no one can john anymore. armada IS the best in the world. he has to do whatever to win, go puff/falcon/whatever.

I thought the general consensus was that Armada IS the best in the world.

 

[KanyeRest]

I thought the general consensus was that Armada IS the best in the world.

i believe that 100%. i'm just saying there are a lot of people who still think mango is the best and john for him. maybe i'm crazy. but we'll find out if armada can keep his crown anyway, so whatever.

 

[MaskedMarth]

You have a fantastic signature.

Anyone think Dr. Pidgey has a shot?

 

[Battlecow]

Everyone knows armada's #1, it hasn't been an issue in the last ever.

Yeah, armada, how about challenging mango to a big (or medium)-money MM falcon v. peach? If he refuses that, we know for sure he's full of ****. And if he accepts then he can't john about it being friendlies or whatever. Plus free money to the guy who's right.

 

[Habefiet]

As long as we're telling Armada to do high stakes money matches, Armada, please do the following high stakes money matches:

--v. PP's Marth (as Peach)
--v. PP's Marth (as Marth)
--v. HBox's Ness (assuming this doesn't happen in bracket)
--v. HBox's Puff (as something that isn't Peach OR YL)
--v. Javi (assuming you don't meet in bracket)
--v. Mango in an Iron Man
--v. M2K (assuming you don't meet in bracket)
--v. Mango's Puff
--v. Axe's YL (assuming this doesn't happen in bracket)
--v. a team of Hax and S2J, you get six stocks they each only get two (or maybe three, whatever)
--Ganon challenge v. PP/Mango/next highest placing Falco from Apex 2012, don't feel like checking
--v. Kirbykaze (assuming this doesn't happen in bracket)
--v. everyone that entered the tournament in a giant crew battle versus you, you get 99 stocks and we see how many people it takes for you to get knocked out, if you beat more than fifty or so you win
--v. Mango in another Iron Man after the first Iron Man
--v. Hanky Panky (assuming this doesn't happen in bracket)
--v. a fusion of PP/Mango/HBox/M2K into a soulless monster hellbent on your destruction (assuming this doesn't happen in bracket)
--v. a Street Fighter player, but you're blindfolded
--v. a scrubby terrible Street Fighter player in Street Fighter
--v. Everybody that entered, with you playing as Fox or Marth or some character that people are like "he hasn't won anything super big in millenia and is therefore a worse character than we ever knew" for the sole purpose of proving them silly.
--v. yourself

tyvm and have a pleasant day, will be looking forward to seeing the vids from these

 

[outofphase]

mango is the people's champ. hes a crowd pleaser. he doesnt wanna switch off fox because he wants to win in style. you can say what you want, but i think its perfectly fine that hed rather lose playing the game his way than win playing it any other. people trash on him for not doing every last thing he can to win, but winning is hollow for him if he doesnt do it playing his game. not to trash on smashers, but i feel most of them arent typically associated with anything in which attitude/style is as important as winning. the reason he johns is because its incredibly frustrating to stick to that moral code, if you will.
although simplistic reason would lead you to believing armada is better, and by the definition of winning he statistically is. some people just dont see better and winning as one in the same. its like when my casual friends play. one will be doc and spam dash attack to a smash of his choice, winning 3/4 of the time. the others will have an obviously better grasp on the game and make generally better decisions, but all it takes is one of them gets dash attacked near the edge after 65% and they can get killed. i will beat all of them handily, but the others generally can take some stocks here or there, whereas doc has no chance. i would argue that the others are better than the doc, despite losing to him h2h. this is where people who believe being better is not equal to winning are coming from.

tl;dr - if a race of smash playing aliens descended upon the earth and told us to bring them a challenger, id want mango playing for earth and not armada.

 

[Habefiet]

tl;dr - if a race of smash playing aliens descended upon the earth and told us to bring them a challenger, id want mango playing for earth and not armada.

wut

Not gonna address the rest of your post, but hold up for a second here. Are we talking about a battle for Earth, or just a style exhibition? Style is one thing, but... "playing for Earth" to me implies that he's fighting for Earth's survival. Let's assume Mango clinches out a victory at Apex. I'd still probably pick Armada to challenge the aliens if the fate of Earth hung in the balance unless Mango thrashed him so hard that he wept openly on the floor, which I sincerely doubt will occur.

Three reasons I'd pick Armada over Mango.

1. There's a decent chance Mango would show up drunk to fight the aliens.
2. There's a ridiculously large chance that he'd get cocky and try to style on them, which if it went well would severely damper our chances to improve diplomatic relations with the aliens and if it went poorly would doom us all.
3. Armada is absurdly consistent and would probably be fit for a fight no matter when the aliens showed up. Mango may have been randomly not playing for a month or two (some downtime in between major tourneys or something) when the aliens arrived.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

mango is the people's champ. hes a crowd pleaser. he doesnt wanna switch off fox because he wants to win in style.

This doesn't make sense, most people want him go Falcon and his Falcon definitely has style. It's just personal pride, I mean how many times has Armada beaten his Fox already? And don't give me that non-tryhard bull****, there's no other player that gets johned for as hard as Mango.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sheik Ganon is roughly somewhere between 80 / 20 and 110 / -10

 

[Beat!]

@outofphase
Prior to Genesis 2, Mango publicly claimed that he was going 100% try-hard. He was going to beat Armada and everyone else, he was going to win without problem, yadda yadda yadda. All his claims that he could've won if he wanted to, and that he wanted to please the crowd, came in a blog post AFTER Genesis 2. His fanboys were prepared to john all along, of course, but he hadn't uttered a word about not wanting to win prior to G2 (he did bash "playing gay" in an interview, but he also said that ultimately, NOT "playing gay" is better, so at that time he had yet to start using it as an excuse).

Seriously, wake up. Mango's a ridiculously amazing and entertaining player, one of the best in the world, and has been that for years, but you have to accept that he's capable of losing, even when trying his hardest. He's not an invincible super-human. He's a regular guy who's really ****ing insanely good at Super Smash Bros. Melee.

honestly if mango loses this one, no one can john anymore. armada IS the best in the world. he has to do whatever to win, go puff/falcon/whatever.

It didn't stop after Genesis 2, it didn't stop after Apex, it won't stop now. Someone will always find a way to make an excuse. When he plays Fox and loses, it's because he wants to style/didn't want to cop-out to Falcon. If he goes Falcon and loses, it will be because he didn't camp enough (because he wants to win "his way"). If he goes Falcon, camps to his heart's content, and loses, it will be because he's not used to playing defensively/"gay".

And then the next tournament will be the new "this one". It's like a circle of life. Or rather, a circle of johns.

Feel free to quote this and ridicule me after Apex if it turns out I'm wrong (not that it will happen). I'd be to busy being positively surprised to care.


...

While I'm here, I suppose I might as well post my predictions before I run out of steam.

1. Armada
2. Mango
3. PP
4. Hbox
5. M2K
5. Javi
7. KK
7. Shroomed
9. Hax
9. Wobbles
9. S2J
9. SFAT
13. PPU
13. leffen
13. Westballz
13. Fly Amanita


Spots 3-7 could be swapped around a lot, depending on circumstances (M2K going emo again, Javi getting PP in bracket instead of M2K/Hbox/Armada/Mango, etc.). These are imo the most probable placements, though.

 

[Jolteon]

Mango doesn't want to cop-out? How has everyone forgotten about Genesis?

 

[Wobbles]

Or the fact that he switched off Falco vs. Taj so he could go Fox, a matchup Taj is not as good at.

Because he wanted to win.

But CP'ing is lame.

JUST SAYING.

 

[strawhats]

Mango doesn't want to cop-out? How has everyone forgotten about Genesis?

what about Genesis? Im interested now

 

[Beat!]

Read Wobbles' post.

 

[Jolteon]

what about Genesis? Im interested now

He went Puff vs Armada after he lost with Falco.

 

[strawhats]

He went Puff vs Armada after he lost with Falco.

hmm..well tbh, I as well as many others honestly considered mango a JIGGLYPUFF MAIN at that point. So his switching from what was considered his secondary character at that point in his melee career isn't too surprising or much of a devastating copout. His falco for me was a strong secondary, defeating several of socal/norcal's (see epic mango vs Pink Shinobi, Silent Spectre, and Zhu sets from '09) finest in the months leading up to Genesis. (rarely revealing much of his jiggz in big tourneys, giving his puff a sense of mystery/final boss character status)

 

[Beat!]

... but in WFs, he switched from Puff to Falco after losing game 1........

 

[strawhats]

this is true, I think someone had said mango hated fighting peach back then, especially considering Pink Shinobi's play style vs jigglypuff. In some senses, I guess mango uses whatever character he feels will get the job done at that moment in time. Which to your point would be seen as a cop-out. In the end, mango does what mango wants. I mean God knows he'd never go something like Jiggz vs Dr. PP/Armada's YL (I highly doubt it).

 

[Beat!]

In some senses, I guess mango uses whatever character he feels will get the job done at that moment in time. Which to your point would be seen as a cop-out.

No, that's what certain people (uncomfortably many) think is a cop-out when anyone except Mango does it. I don't think CPing characters is a "cop-out" under any circumstances whatsoever.

Edit: Might've misunderstood what you meant by "to your point". Bleh.

 

[Jolteon]

this is true, I think someone had said mango hated fighting peach back then, especially considering Pink Shinobi's play style vs jigglypuff. In some senses, I guess mango uses whatever character he feels will get the job done at that moment in time. Which to your point would be seen as a cop-out. In the end, mango does what mango wants. I mean God knows he'd never go something like Jiggz vs Dr. PP/Armada's YL (I highly doubt it).

There's nothing wrong with Mango doing what he wants, but he is being a hypocrite.

It's not even like this is the only example, or even the only one in this thread, Wobbles just provided a good one.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Using characters you are actually competent with is a cop out. No one wants to see Mango win with jigglypuff because everyone knows that it's now the player that one the match. Clearly it's the character. In order to not be a lame-*** cop-out you have to use a **** character like Mario.



Hey how much sarcasm does it take to screw in a light bulb?

 

[Construct]

Honestly, I think that Mango saying he isn't going to use Falcon or Puff or w/e because he thinks it's a copout is just a crutch. That way if he loses, he can just say it's because he didn't go Falcon/Puff/whoever and would've ***** Armada if he did. He should go whoever he genuinely think he has the best shot with, no johns.

edit: still mango nation 2013 baby

 

[Biglard]

Has Armada already played Hax in the last two years? I'd like to see that if yes.

 

[Wobbles]

FWIW I don't actually care that he switched to Fox. If I could counterpick like M2K, I'd do it. If I could switch to YL and beat HBox, I'd do it. If I could play Falcon and beat Armada, I'd do it. If I could go Pikachu on FD and beat every Fox/Falco for free, I'd do that too. I don't think there's anything wrong with it because if you consider stage and matchup knowledge as part of your skill, then good counterpicking must be a skill as well.

/logic

 

[outofphase]

to be clear i was not johning for mango. i was just trying to point out why people still argue for mango as the best player. people can have different definitions of better, ones that arent based on the mbr or apex 2013 or whatever else ruleset. ITS SUBJECTIVE. nobody denies armada is the most winning player in ssbm at the moment because that is concrete.

 

[Strong Badam]

I predict Wobbles will get top 10 like he does at every national and then people will forget he did so.