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To Those that Oppose the Gameplay Changes

WiiPlaya77

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 28, 2006
Messages
42
Alright, alright, just let it be fun. It'll always be competitive, as long as it's a "king of the hill" type game, it'll be competitive; but I see both sides, and I trust these guys to deliver.
In response to the Ken/pro would pwn us all, w/d or not, I wouldn't quite say that, because there are soo many people who are super at smash that have had no opportunity to compete in any real tournaments, and I think that SSBB online will be the first time everyone who plays will have a chance to fight some pros. Don't get me wrong, they'll still kick good arse, but there will be many more people who have never been seen before, with different fighting styles, that will be right up there with them (or above).
 

Zink

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
2,365
Location
STEP YO GAME UP
Possible, I suppose, but unlikely. Someone that pro has to at least KNOW the information and moves on this site, even if they can't DO them, because they are used widely and are so important to playing a particular character well. IE person X could be a really good Falco player but say he doesn't find this site and he never learns the short-hop laser, he'll lose simply because that move is not only powerful it is also a gateway to a good deal of strategies.
 

YimmyZ

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 11, 2006
Messages
39
Here's my two cents, even though this has probably already been said. Games change. In reference to another MLG common game, Halo 2. Some things changed, people still play it, life goes on. They limited weapons on that game, just like we did with items on this, to make it more complex and challenging I suppose, but I'm sure somewhere out there someone takes joy in usin needlers to kill someone, like I do to throw something at some one and kill em without really trying. But still games change, and if you don't like it when it comes out, then don't play it. And play be like everyone that plays Halo 1 for the pistol.
 

Miharu

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
6,647
Location
Bay Area, CA
Here's my two cents, even though this has probably already been said. Games change. In reference to another MLG common game, Halo 2. Some things changed, people still play it, life goes on. They limited weapons on that game, just like we did with items on this, to make it more complex and challenging I suppose, but I'm sure somewhere out there someone takes joy in usin needlers to kill someone, like I do to throw something at some one and kill em without really trying. But still games change, and if you don't like it when it comes out, then don't play it. And play be like everyone that plays Halo 1 for the pistol.
Thanks for reviving a 4-month old topic.
 

YimmyZ

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 11, 2006
Messages
39
I don't see why you had to quote me. I guess you just love to make these pages longer.
 

Chipman

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
28
The wavedash is ******* not the divider between good players and bad players. It just isn't, and it's absolute ignorance to say otherwise. Getting rid of it will not bring everyone down to the same basic skill level, not even close. Where do you even get that idea? There's a mountain of things that separate a pro from a newb over just jumping and airdodging. And how is it that using wavedashing compromises your 'actual' skill? Wavedashing takes skill to use properly. Not merely the technical aspect, but the application as well. Wavedashing is a conduit for skill, and proper usage of it shows more skill than ignoring it or abusing it. Anybody who claims they -only- lost because their opponent wavedashed probably sucks a lot at this game.
Anyone who complains when someone uses a glitch to claim a win doesn't have the right to complain? Have you played snakers on MK:DS online? Played people who climb walls etc. on Metroid Prime Hunters?

Anyone who KNOWS what wavedashing is likes Smash Bros too much, let alone those who use it.

Wavedashing is a move that required skill and quick thinking to use, but when used, instantly wins you the match. That's NOT fair.
 

balladechina212

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
680
Location
Chicago, IL
Wavedashing is a move that required skill and quick thinking to use, but when used, instantly wins you the match. That's NOT fair.
Instantly? WOW I don't even know what to say.

Try to play with Link against a Sheik of the same skill level as you. Wavedash when you play but tell your opponent not to wavedash. Tell me if you "instantly" win, because then I will shoot myself.
 

the problem

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
185
Location
Ontario,Mississauga,Canada
wavedashing is not cheap who ever sais that go stop playing smash right now if you can do it which takes alot of skill to get it right with all the characters and in battle. Once you get used to it you'll see what us good people who USE it are thinking and you will understand

The no items is perfectly fair why should some1 with no skill grab a bat and use front smash kill a pro cause he made a small mistakes hmm that sounds a bit .....fair? If you wanna make a tourny with items feel free lets jsut see how many people will come.

The stages that you said are "fair" and "make the game more fun" feel free to make a tourny with them i bet you almost no one come and those stages that are used in tournies final destinations, yoshi story etc.... are used because they give no one the advantage and makes the game F.A.I.R for everyone

e.g- you and some pro go to poke floats he messes up gets stuck or something like that you win for no reason but luck whopee that makes the game fun doesnt it :ohwell:

If the battle was in final destination (or the other FAIR places) no place to get stuck its flat making it fair no one complains everyones happy exept little dip****s like you :laugh:

~Thank you and good night~

P.S yea im wondering too how could wavedashing win you a battle instantly. wait wait so your telling me i go and slide on the ground the other person looses all his lives :S
 

A-Laon

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Messages
3,873
Location
Where it all went wrong
A game can be played and enjoyed by anyone.
A game can be delved deeply into by the intense hardcore gamer.
A game CANNOT be both.

It will always be one of two matters: the game will be devoid of deep, tactical elements and will instead focus on relatively simple yet friendly and casually enjoyable gameplay, or it will be purged of all variables that may at all detract from reward of skill and ability, providing a challenge and thrill to the avid competitive gamer. It is merely a matter of opinion, taste, and devotion to gaming.

It is pointless, superficial, and immature to bash one another for our levels of devotion and differences in taste, making this entire thread idiotic.

But for the record...

The unfortunate truth is that the dominant opinion in the industry is that of the casual gamer, and for as long as game developers want to make money, they're going to follow that idealism of playability and relative simplicity, giving the hardcore competitors (such as myself) the short end of the stick. I do indeed personally feel that this approach is moving in the wrong direction, focusing on the mass media rather than praising the devoted, selective fanbase which loves games to the highest degree, so, personally, I feel we "elitists" at least deserve respect for our totally legitimate opinions and massive love for games. Just a little personal thought there.
 

Wilhelmsan

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 22, 2006
Messages
1,006
Location
Austin, TX
They need to add more, subtract nothing...but tweak everything into an incredible balance. They need to make it to where in both beginner and advanced play, there is no god tier. We don't want another game where 5 characters win almost exclusively. There needs to be a more vertical balance, more subtle counters, good team matchups (which I predict will play a larger part in Brawl) and with any luck it can be every bit as fast as Melee...for the fastest players and not just for the fastest characters.

A game can be played and enjoyed by anyone.
A game can be delved deeply into by the intense hardcore gamer.
A game CANNOT be both.
This is so ridiculously wrong, I urge everyone to acknowledge this.

Melee was able to be played and enjoyed by everyone (look at how it sold), and can still be delved deeply into by YOU, ME, everyone here (the hardcore gamer). The only issue with SSBM is that despite there being a teriffic contrast between beginner and expert level, that there slowly became fewer viable characters for a pro matchup. That's the thing they need to nail in SSBB.
 

A-Laon

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Messages
3,873
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Where it all went wrong
They need to add more, subtract nothing...but tweak everything into an incredible balance. They need to make it to where in both beginner and advanced play, there is no god tier. We don't want another game where 5 characters win almost exclusively. There needs to be a more vertical balance, more subtle counters, good team matchups (which I predict will play a larger part in Brawl) and with any luck it can be every bit as fast as Melee...for the fastest players and not just for the fastest characters.

This is so ridiculously wrong, I urge everyone to acknowledge this.

Melee was able to be played and enjoyed by everyone (look at how it sold), and can still be delved deeply into by YOU, ME, everyone here (the hardcore gamer).
And yet, could you truly consider what the casual gamers do and what the hardcore competitors do to be, technically, the same game? I sure as hell can't.

The difference in technique, tactics, and even character choice, maps, and rules are so unbelievably different between the two groups, I find it horridly narrow to consider them to be the same product purely because it's the same software. Hell, there's even a barrier of flaws in the game's physics system that divide these two play styles. Do note that when I say the game cannot be both, I am not being that literal. Yes, it's always gonna be called "Super Smash Brothers Melee," but there are undeniably two radically different games in this box.
 

RAMRAM

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 14, 2006
Messages
197
Location
Under your bed
I think that there can only be minor improvements to the characters right now...
It all matters on what type of style you like to play the most. Fast or slow, powerful or not, small or big. It doesn't matter, as long as you find a style that you're comfortable with and master it, you can destroy almost anyone.
I've had my rear-end handed to me by a Jigglypuff master. Embarrasing to admit, but it proves my point. (No offense to you JP lovers out there.)
 

KratosAurion192

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
822
Wow this just keeps going in a circle. WD and other advanced techs stay. If you think it's cheep, than just don't play people that do it. If you think some stages are cheep. Than don't play them. Find a group that shares the same beliefs as you, go off in a corner of the planet and stop complaining. Nobodies saying you have to play people that WDs or plays or doesn't play a certian stage, or without items. So put everything in the game so that the people that want it can be happy. Just make an option to turn it off.
 

Xelyst

-_-
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
1,466
This thread is interesting (although I dont exactly agree with some of the points made -__-) more insightful then the majority of stupid threads around. descent read.
 

FreakoFreako

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
143
Location
Cali
They might include something like WaveDash, yet different. Also, I believe it's a glitch.. SO they most likely won't put it in Brawl. I don't really care if they put it in Brawl or not.

Also, If you look at SSB64 vids and SSBM vids, they're very different. They both came out very good. So don't fret over these changes.
 

shinehex

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 24, 2006
Messages
1,337
Location
Long Island, New York (If you want to smash contac
They might include something like WaveDash, yet different. Also, I believe it's a glitch.. SO they most likely won't put it in Brawl. I don't really care if they put it in Brawl or not.

Also, If you look at SSB64 vids and SSBM vids, they're very different. They both came out very good. So don't fret over these changes.
IT is NOT a glicth it is airdodging essentually.
 

FzGhouL

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
21
I agree with you whole heartedly.

I pretty much loathe the elitests of the community.
 

Angrylobster

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
1,161
Anyone who complains when someone uses a glitch to claim a win doesn't have the right to complain? Have you played snakers on MK:DS online? Played people who climb walls etc. on Metroid Prime Hunters?

Anyone who KNOWS what wavedashing is likes Smash Bros too much, let alone those who use it.

Wavedashing is a move that required skill and quick thinking to use, but when used, instantly wins you the match. That's NOT fair.
LOL! This guy has gotta be a troll, theres no way he could be serious: http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-1/ read that please chipman, i'm begging you. Its got you pegged.

Oh yeah, I dont mind if they remove wavedashing L canceling blah blah blah, as long as the game has new ways of being competitive and having a good tournament scene i'm fine. Though, if they dumb the game down I will be very dissapointed.
 

KratosAurion192

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
822
IT is NOT a glicth it is airdodging essentually.
essentually...but air dodging was ment to be well...in the air. You're not supposed to air dodge on the ground. I know we're talking about a game and logic doesn't have to make sense. It's a glitch. A glitch that has become part of the game. If it helps the game evolve then so be it.
It's the same thing as the duplication trick on Poke'mon red/blue. Everyone thinks it's cheep to make rare candies and level up all your pokemon to level 100 as opposed to just raising them. I always said" Cheep or not my 100 pikachu just kicked the crap out of your entire party...
I play a samus that does nothing but her nair, bomb jump, missles and the charge shot, over and over and over again. If you get caught in the missles you're dead. It is cheep. But he always loses.
I think if wavedashing is there then use it. It MAY give you an advantage. But Wavedashing IS a glitch...
 
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
8,377
Location
Long Beach,California
You know what I care about? Whether the game is FUN or not.

I don't care about Wavedashing. I don't use it enough to miss it.
I don't care about "fair" stages only. Give me some FUN stages to play, like Rainbow Ride or Hyrule Castle (64).
I don't care about tiers. Some characters are just going to be better than others. I don't care even a little bit. I'll get good with my character no matter where they're placed on the tier list.
I don't care about clones. I like the clones fine, but if they go by the wayside, so be it.
I don't care if all the characters don't return. Yes, I like all the characters from Melee, but unlike most people, I realize that Brawl is a NEW game. If they have to remove some of Melee's characters to add some new ones, then great. If I want to play as the old characters, I'll play Melee.
I don't care about Super moves. Super moves look really fun, no matter how it's activated. If you can turn them off, fine. If you can't, fine. It'll still be fun to use them.

My point is that I think a lot of people are focusing too much on Sakurai making SSBMA (Super Smash Brothers: Melee: Again), and not enough on just speculating how the NEW game can be made FUN, as opposed to SIMILAR. I'm far in favor of fun > the same thing.
Very true...Very very true...

I've noticed a sort of thrend in this forum and in many other forums as well. The trend seems to be "Smash Bros. Brawl is getting 'slowed down' a little, so now it's not going to be good". People are complaining that, just because Nooby McNewguy can't Wavedash or hold his own against certain players, that doesn't mean the game should be changed in any way. They complain that the "slower aerial battles" are going to make the game too much like a DBZ fighter, and that it would ruin the unique aspect that Smash Bros. has.

I'd like to say that looking at the gameplay changes like this is starting to show that the Smash community is a bunch of elitist hypocrites.

The game is going to be slowed down to allow more players to play it. Why don't you people think this is a good idea? By not letting new members join the community, you'll slowly start killing it. Video games thrive on new players joining the fray constantly. If the game is slightly tweaked to remove Wavedashing, a glitch that shouldn't exist (even if the programmers noticed it and left it in, it doesn't mean they saw the full ramifications of leaving it there), then fine, so be it. I can't Wavedash around my group of friends because none of them can do it; they don't bother to practice it, and refuse to play against me if I actively use it, and as such, I find no need to practice it either. So Wavedashing gets removed? Good. Explain to me why it should be left it.

The new aerial battle system doesn't sound at all like it's being made to sound like. I fairly certain just having more interesting aerial battles will make the game more fun, and I sure didn't see it as a bad thing when watching Pit and MetaKnight do it in the trailer. What's your problem with this change? It honestly sounds like it might matches more fun, and it gives a whole new area for characters to excel/fail in, creating a new way to determine the tiers. Explain to me why this is a bad thing.

I remember during the initial preparation for this game, that everyone was complaining about Melee turning into "just another fighter". One such argument: If they added Supers into it, that's a bad thing. Well, they sure as heck added Supers to it, didn't they? And they did a fine job at it too, by making it 'optional' for all you 'pros' who don't like fighting with items and only play on certain levels. This is where your hypocrisy comes in: If you don't want this game to be just like any other fighter, why are you trying so hard to make it like one? You remove items. Why? Because they take away from the skill required to play? No, you take them out because they're "random" and it makes the game "unfair". Bull. Items make the game more frantic, and add the chaos factor that regular fighters don't have. You play only on a small selection of levels, and you ALWAYS get rid of the moving levels, such as Poke Floats. Why? Because they're "random" and it's makes the game "unfair". Bull. The moving levels make the game more fun by making the players have to concentrate on more than just their opponent, something that regular fighters don't have.

By cutting certain levels and removing items, you completely destroy certain characters' only good qualities. You can bet that Mewtwo would be a better character if items were allowed, because the moment he picked up a Paper Fan his opponent would be afraid to put up his shield. Pichu is Bottom Tier because you removed the only thing that gave him an advantage: items. Because PokeFloats and Big Blue are turned off, it's impossible for, say, Kirby to gain an advantage by using the environment as a weapon. By turning off the "unfair" levels and items, you make this game exactly like all the other fighters out there, only lo and behold, you have to do your own combos. But in removing levels and items, you also remove several combo opportunities.

Also, you claim that by changing the gameplay and certain characters, that people will have to learn the game all over again. Guess what? Did you play the original Smash Bros.? THen, did you play Melee? Well, answer me this: Didn't you have to relearn certain aspects of the game? yes? Good, then stop complaining. If they don't change anything going into Brawl, they're basically making Smash Bros. Melee 2, and that's not a good thing. You see, because then, Smash Bros. would become like other fighters, because all that's chaning is a few new characters, some new levels, and improved graphics and combos. By changing the gameplay slightly, they create a completely new experience. That's wherein you'll find fun: a new gaming experience for everyone, pro or newb. So you have to relearn Sheik because they toned her down? Good, maybe you'll find someone else you like. So Wavedashing got removed? Good, now everyone's on the same basic skill level, and taking advantage of a glitch won't make the difference between a pro and a newb: it will be actual skill with their character of choice.

So honestly, I'd like an intelligent discussion with this. Someone tell me the bad part about Sakurai-san's changes, in response to my own points. What's wrong with changing the game?
Ok,to counter your entire argument,i leave you with one simple question....

Why on earth should advanced techs should be removed so a few kids on the short bus can join in?

Well?
 

commonyoshi

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
6,215
Location
dainty perfect
Here's another statement that I think needs to be said.

No one cares about the noobs. So what if this game wont be as appealing to them? There are libraries of other games for them to play. Why do the one's dedicated to such a high level of play have to suffer? (I'm not speaking with money in mind, of course. Nintendo is in the market to make money.)

"Wah, wah! Wave dashing is cheating! I can learn to use it in twenty minutes, but instead I ban others from using it rather than working hard! Marth is cheap!"

Edit: For the record, I do like Advanced Tactics, but I wont care too much if they are gone. I'm just sick of all the noobs.
 

KratosAurion192

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
822
Here's another statement that I think needs to be said.

No one cares about the noobs. So what if this game wont be as appealing to them? There are libraries of other games for them to play. Why do the one's dedicated to such a high level of play have to suffer? (I'm not speaking with money in mind, of course. Nintendo is in the market to make money.)

"Wah, wah! Wave dashing is cheating! I can learn to use it in twenty minutes, but instead I ban others from using it rather than working hard! Marth is cheap!"

Edit: For the record, I do like Advanced Tactics, but I wont care too much if they are gone. I'm just sick of all the noobs.
Those noobs are buyers of the game as well. If you want an advanced play then fine you make your teir lists, ban your stages, turn off yor super moves and items and compete. It's not dedicated to a high level of play. At least it wasn't supposed to be. It was supposed to be, pick your favorite character and beat the brap out of your 3 best friends. That's not saying it can't be a competitive game, but that never was and never should be the main purpose of the game. Like I said, put anything you want in the game to make it fun. Just make an option to turn it off...
 

Sudai

Stuff here
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Feb 14, 2006
Messages
7,026
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Baton Rouge, Louisiana
To those using the logic that "wavedashing is a glitch and should be left out of brawl", look to L-Cancling in SSB (Dubbed Z-Cancling then because you used the Z Button).

It was carried over, nefed a bit, but carried over none the less.


Both were just to speed up gameplay, neither broke the game, I see no reason why WD would be any different in this carry over than L-Cancling was from SSB to SSB:M.
 

shinehex

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 24, 2006
Messages
1,337
Location
Long Island, New York (If you want to smash contac
To those using the logic that "wavedashing is a glitch and should be left out of brawl", look to L-Cancling in SSB (Dubbed Z-Cancling then because you used the Z Button).

It was carried over, nefed a bit, but carried over none the less.


Both were just to speed up gameplay, neither broke the game, I see no reason why WD would be any different in this carry over than L-Cancling was from SSB to SSB:M.
Thats a very good point.
 

Devastlian

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2001
Messages
1,618
Location
Rodeo, California.
Way to contribute, shinehex.

Ya know, I'm actually dreading the day they release a playable build (if they haven't already adressed it in a trailer or in dialogue from the creators) because I know that there will be someone there that tries it out and tries to wavedash and, upon finding out the conclusion, posts their findings on the internet. And the sheer amount of *****ing that ensues will just ruin the entire experience. Everyone will say something like, "Way to [do the impossible and satisfy everyone], Nintendo."

Of couse, I agree with McFox' post (I seem to have missed it). Everything I've seen so far is simply perfect and what has me undeniably excited is knowledge that there will be more and that this game will have the sheer amount of polish and content that I'd expect from Nintendo and SSB. So, no matter what, in my eyes, as more is revealed, this game can only get better.
 

AlphaZealot

Former Smashboards Owner
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
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Messages
12,731
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Bellevue, Washington
Most of you need to remember something.

Games are like poetry, designers intent has no bearing on how good it's substance is.

If the designers didn't intend for wavedashing, it simply doesn't matter. The same way that every english class in the country will teach "stopping by woods on a snowy evening" by Edgar Allen Poe as if he meant every possible interpritation when he wrote it. He didn't. How he felt though has no bearing. It is up for the reader, or in our case, the community, to interprit and find meaning in the substance of the game (or poetry).

The designers simply provide a medium.
 

Myst007_teh_newb

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
260
Location
Southern California
I absolutely disagree with the whole "take out wavedashing, L-cancelling, etc." view that some of these posters are having. The truth is, as has been stated over and over again, no one is forcing you to use these things. If you don't want to use these, then, by all means, shun them completely for all I care. The reason that people have come to love these tactics is simply because it adds a new dimension to gameplay. Having a game where the difference between professional and new gamers is minimal completely takes out all of the satisfaction in competative gaming.

If I were to put this into an analogy, here's how it'd go:

SSBM is like a kite-- simple, fun, and very amusing. Then after including advance tactics, that kite becomes something more: a stunt kite. Now instead of just staying as a plain kite, it's evolved into something more technical and "fun" in the eyes of veterans. Now you can do loads more things with your kite that others without technical skill can't do. Keep in mind, though, that the kite is still there, so if you want, you can still play things simple. Everyone wins, in the end, because both vets and casual players can have what they want.

The only thing I hate about some of the casual gamers that post are the fact that they believe that things should be removed simply because it opens up the game to a level they cannot get to. Let's all face things here... You can't expect to raise your level of play in SSBM without using advanced tactics, correct? Does that meant that those who can't do these functions should be able to whine about it? Of course not. Advanced players will always try to use or exploit things to get better, there's no denying that, and there's nothing that casual players can do to stop that.

All I have to say to wanna-be pros out there is: Put up or shut up. You're going to have to rise up to /their/ level, because I seriously doubt that Nintendo's going to nerf the game to the point where they fall down to yours.
 

JJC

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
48
Location
Perth
You assume everyone who dislikes SSBM's style of gameplay is a casual gamer. I've been playing SSB64 hardcore since it came out and I much prefer the gameplay of that one to Melee's chaotic style (imo theres not enough mind games and too much emphasis on fastest fingers).

But I have faith that Brawl will bring the two games together and then add some.
 

takieddine

Smash Master
Joined
May 1, 2006
Messages
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Not chilindude829
I say Nintedo GO out and explicitly make one "tournament mode" with all the tournament settings preset, and make a "OMG I loev items moed" to still please all of those that don't play the game too much and would still like to win out of sheer luck.
 

Fastest

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Messages
565
Location
Bay Area, CA
The game shouldn't be changed significantly because there's precious little they could do to make the game "better" than it is. They really don't have any direction to go but down.

In an ideal world Brawl would simply be an improved Melee, with bug fixes, buffs to the low characters, and additional features/characters.
 

blaksheap82

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
Messages
924
Location
holding it
There is nothing made by people that is perfect; there can always be improvements made to anything. But what company have you ever seen that only improves on products they already produce in small increments, and never give them total overhauls or revamps, or just replace them completely? Microsoft is the only one I can think of, and they can do that only because they're a monopoly. But specifically for Smash, assuming we'd only get one every time Nin launches a new console, I would love getting an altered game every time. Learning a new game, which is really not learning the game all over again, only every five or six years doesn't sound bad.

The part I don't understand is why most people seem to think, such as many of the posts in this thread against the playing field being leveled out once again, is that everyone, from Ken and Isai down to Nooby McNewguy, will be on the same level. The pros will still be at a higher level. (And L-canceling was in SSB also, so I don't know why people think that will be removed.:rolleyes:)
 

Lesheik

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 23, 2006
Messages
1,163
Location
SoCal
I agree with DarkLink. The game is all about fun. My friends don't use items or go to moving levels because they're not used in tournaments, and it's cheap because it doesn't show the skill of the player, it's all based on luck. I don't use items because I just think they're annoying. I mean, the items pop out at a random-position, and it gets frustrating when you find out that some box doesn't contain an item, and it kills you when you open it. I think moving levels are fun because like what DarkLink said you also rely on your position, not just your opponent. In moving levels you do get lucky, but that increases your battle tactics because you don't know what and where an item is going to be popped up at, so with items strategy is basically useless. However if your on a moving object in a moving level and your opponent is coming after you, which object do you jump on now? It depends all on you, and what you feel will help you. Moving levels do increase your awareness and evasion in battle.

Wavedashing is a glitch, but it's quite effective. Wavedashing can help make evasion, comboing, and mind-games a lot easier. But do you think that they'll exclude these necessities? Of course not. So they'll add something new. Out with the old and in with the new. Have you guys tried out the game yet? No. Then don't judge it yet. I know it's a big shock, but hopefully when the game comes out, you guys' will all get over it, and you guys' will hopefully enjoy the game. Just let Nintendo do their thing. They love washdashing, and L-canceling too, but it's time for something new.. After all, they're both glitches anyway..
 

blaksheap82

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
Messages
924
Location
holding it
L-canceling isn't a glitch, it was in SSB also, so at least it wasn't a glitch in SSBM, which I said in my post above. But I really agree with you on not using items. I've noticed that when I play certain people who aren't good, and know it, do better with items on, and they say so themselves. I agree with what Dark Link says about taking out items, but just like he used the example of baseball, that works against him with items. Example: In the Chicago Cubs Wrigley Field, the wind can make a huge difference between games. (I don't know why at Wrigley Field in particular, it's mostly just for an example.) Can anyone control the wind? Of course not, just as much as you can control what item comes down where and when. But when the wind carries two hits out of the park for the Tigers, and pushes two would-be homers foul for the Cubs, does that affect the outcome of the game? Yes, and can even give the win to the worse team. But in the Houston Astro Dome, is that factor of randomness there? No, and with that factor gone, the wind couldn't alter the outcome of the game. It's the same reason items are taken out, so the outcome of the game is not unfairly altered. Not to mention, an already better player doesn't get a much bigger advantage.
 

Kinlap

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 4, 2004
Messages
169
Location
NY
There will always be the difference between recreational and competitive players in all games. Even if Brawl is going to have major changes than Melee, I'm sure the community will adjust with new rules, advanced techniques, and what not. 64 and Melee both allowed items to be turned off, so Brawl will do the same. Cater to both the recreational and competitive gamer.
 

SmashChu

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 14, 2003
Messages
5,924
Location
Tampa FL
I agree with this 100%
I am hoping Wavedashing is taken out as it seems to take away from other actions. Hopfully, everyone can learn to use the Character, not the glitch.
 
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