PolMex23
Smash Champion
TRRRUUUUU!!!!!
Oh an yea cuz Seib plays stupid an Wario is mad good dont be dumb boy
Oh an yea cuz Seib plays stupid an Wario is mad good dont be dumb boy
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To everyone involved in AL's smash scene
- Thread starter DanGR
- Start date
Winnar
Smash Lord
Okay so I only read Dan's first post and I dunno. My stance has always been that banning MK is kind of silly and not really necessary.
The more I think about it though the more I'm against banning MK. Look at Third Strike and tell me bad matchups kill a fighting game.
Nobody takes the brawl community seriously and it's because we are seriously debating over banning MK.
The more I think about it though the more I'm against banning MK. Look at Third Strike and tell me bad matchups kill a fighting game.
Nobody takes the brawl community seriously and it's because we are seriously debating over banning MK.
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
also, remember 64 pikachu. yeah i'm pretty sure he had no bad matchups either.
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
You know I'd probably go ahead and ban MK at my tournaments if munkus and will weren't so active in our local community. Just to make people happy since they don't want to actually learn how to play.
Because I've realized that it doesn't matter anymore. this game isn't going to develop anywhere beyond more footstool infinites/stalling techniques/banning of things we don't like because the brawl community is too scrubby and braindead. I mean how can a game thrive if people don't even want to learn how to actually play it?
So i don't see a reason to worry about doing my part in contributing to brawls development as a serious competitive game because it never will be. (because of the community, not because Brawl is a bad game)
Because I've realized that it doesn't matter anymore. this game isn't going to develop anywhere beyond more footstool infinites/stalling techniques/banning of things we don't like because the brawl community is too scrubby and braindead. I mean how can a game thrive if people don't even want to learn how to actually play it?
So i don't see a reason to worry about doing my part in contributing to brawls development as a serious competitive game because it never will be. (because of the community, not because Brawl is a bad game)
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
You don't even know why the intelligent minority of pro-ban advocates want him banned.
It's because he is DESTROYING this community. In the future, look at how many people quit going to your tournaments as a result of the growing number of MK mains. Just look at how many people are picking up MK because they're having trouble with him. Pops, George, and I are picking up MK. I'm considering dropping Olimar completely because he's just a waste of time. THAT attitude is not scrubby. THAT is playing competitively and playing to WIN. If you have trouble with a character, you either learn the matchup REALLY well and outplay your opponent or you can pick up MK. That's what this game is slowly beginning to boil down to.
You're even doing it yourself. You're having trouble with Olimar so you're using MK.
Winnar
Smash Lord
Seems a little melodramatic to me to say that MK is destroying the brawl community. It also seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you argue well enough that MK will tear the community apart then don't be surprised when it happens.
Besides, even if everyone picks up MK, everyone will still lose at tournaments.
BTW Dan you're never on AIM
Pika_Cam
Smash Ace
I want him banned because I see good players like DanGR all over the place dropping their mains for MK because they are tired of the matchup.
Isn't tha pont of counter picking is too use a better character for the round u lost. I mean if its that bad then go mk vs mk. If someone can't beat a character with their main then they try someone better. Even if he dominates and doenst hav bad match-ups tha fact is he can be beatin we've seen different people beat m2k before so its possible mk can be beatin. Either put n some work wit ur character or go mk vs mk
Pika_Cam
Smash Ace
This is different than counter picking if people are dropping their mains completely for MK.
OmniOstrich
Smash Lord
Quick, everyone that doesn't live in AL or go to their tournaments post in their thread and trash them.
Lame.
Lame.
Winnar
Smash Lord
Yeahuzzz
I think I'm sigging that.
wat
Edit - Cam, if they want to drop their mains for MK that's their business.
Just means they're easier to beat IMO.
T3h Albino
Smash Master
^^^^^^^^^^^^
couldn't agree more
couldn't agree more
Sukai
Smash Champion
2 years with MK.
Lets try 2 years without him and see what happens.
No point in arguing over speculation, test the waters.
I'm neutral by the way, hi AL.
Lets try 2 years without him and see what happens.
No point in arguing over speculation, test the waters.
I'm neutral by the way, hi AL.
moogle
Smash Ace
sup knux.
.
.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
You don't care if everyone picks up MK? If you don't care if AL is infested with Meta Knights, then fine. Don't support a ban. I'll quit this game before that happens, and so will several others. That's why I want him banned. I want a healthy scene where everyone enjoys playing. If that means banning a character, then fine. I don't care about one little character.Seems a little melodramatic to me to say that MK is destroying the brawl community. It also seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you argue well enough that MK will tear the community apart then don't be surprised when it happens.
Besides, even if everyone picks up MK, everyone will still lose at tournaments.
BTW Dan you're never on AIM
And if I'm wrong, then why do people in AL keep switching to him? Pops switched completely over. George dropped Kirby for him. I'm considering completely dropping Olimar for MK. Three folks that come to our small smashfests are beginning to use MK more. T1J said he's going to use MK against Olimar. And you know what happens when people start secondarying him? They start to switch completely over, just as history has told us time and time again all over the world.
I'll get on AIM more. You need to tell me some more about BlazBlue. :3
Exactly. Why should I use any character besides MK? He's the best bet I've got- in fact, he's the best bet anyone has. The only people that don't use him are the ones that just like their character more, don't care about winning as much, and/or put a LOT of time into learning how to fight him with their worse character.
I'm not gonna put anymore hours into learning how to fight him as Oli. I can't do it anymore. It's too demotivating to see the best Olimar players get crushed by MKs that know the matchup. There's never any cases of Olimar players beating MKs that know the matchup. EVER.
Anyways, MK is EASY and I'll do better by using him. I don't even have to have a secondary. If that's what you want everyone to do- pick up MK- then don't support a ban. See if I care. You won't see me and many others around here much longer. I can guarantee that.
Good man.
What happens when the META KNIGHT player begins to learn MY matchup??? Why should I use MY character when I can just do better if I use MK? Why should anyone? What's the point? I don't see one. Do you?
Anyways, I'm through with this thread. I'm using MK until I get bored, them I'm quitting, and so are others. If that's what you want, fine.
Sukai
Smash Champion
It's a game guys.
Chill.
Chill.
PolMex23
Smash Champion
geoff...you got beat by petey...
Ive never lost to petey using snake...
Your a better player and wario goes almost even...
You still lose to Mks, mostly gay d3s...
When will you lose to a ICs?...never
Ive never lost to petey using snake...
Your a better player and wario goes almost even...
You still lose to Mks, mostly gay d3s...
When will you lose to a ICs?...never
stop complaining and use mk no one is gonna stop u. when the meta learns the match up good for him. u play olimar learn the match up and ****. don't take the g@y route and be like o wow i can't beat him so i want him banned. like i said before continuing playing your main learn the match up or use mk for mk simple as pie. just cuz u can't beat mk with oli doesn't mean u can't try falco, wario, snake, diddy or whatever.
Winnar
Smash Lord
lmfao
Nah, Dan's legit and so are his concerns.
But no, Dan, I don't care if every person in AL picks MK because I know that it won't happen. In the off chance that I'm wrong and it DOES happen, then it won't be for long.
And even if it does last long then I STILL don't care because that's just the way it is. As long as people are having fun then it doesn't really bother me if it's MK or Snake or DDD or even Jiggs that I face all the time.
MK won't destroy AL.
Besides, this is a fighter game and especially this is Smash Bros. and even more especially this is BRAWL. Ultimately it is the player matchups which will prove infinitely more important than the character matchups
Sandtru27
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2009
- Messages
- 1,229
i lost to petey once
and i lost because i honestly did not care and felt petey had more heart than me so i wanted to give him his shot to succeed (but he failed that piece of **** lol <3)
if you watched the first match... i destroyed the lil' scamp; it's a john but that was my mentality during that day
brawl is a dumb game; i haven't really cared to win since... i can't even remember
when you take a step back... you see how ******** the game is in general lol (edit: esp when it comes to fun like i don't get how some kids have fun playing the way they do lol... like d3 players IM OWNING SO BAD LOOK AT THIS CHAINGRAB)
anwyays
i have mostly lost to d3/snake/mk in the past
i think d3 and snake are the gayest ****s in the game but i don't ***** about banning them (edit: tho i do say some mean spirited things about them sometimes... mainly cause of the person and not the char... cause i do think a fair share of d3 players are cool as beans)
when i lose, i lose because i simply got out played
why talk about ICs? and i've lost a fair share of friendlies and one tourney match to ICs players
Galuda beat my wario with ICs at WATO5(?) the first round so i counterd him with my old MK and just dair camped him because Galuda (not the ICs as a char.) couldn't handle that
then he picked snake who he sucks at and we just messed around
and if you wanna talk about when i used snake against galuda at that gainesville tourney... lol that set wasn't serious at all (and that should be obvious)
but w/e, i stopped playing MK because he was boring as balls
i went back to wario because he's fun as balls
that's the reality of the situation for me and i don't think i ever did significantly better/worse because of MK/wario as char's respectively
long post oh yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
MK isn't destroying the community. A bunch of doods who don't want to learn how to play Super Smash Bros. Brawl is destroying the community. The reason that "picking up MK" is an option is because this community doesn't know how to play Brawl.
When I play MVC2 with my friends, we soft ban Cable because it's an auto-win in our circle if you pick Cable. Why? Because we suck at MVC2. Obviously Cable is manageable, good players do it all the time. Same thing here, except this entire community is the equivalent of me and my scrubby friends.
Basically my point is that banning MK won't change the fact that this community is made up of guys that are playing a game and not getting any better and would rather ban something than learn how to beat it.
I'm using MK against Olimar because MK is a hard counter to Olimar and because I've been convinced that at this point in the metagame Olimar vs Snake is an absolute death matchup. (and also because this community is full of scrubs that don't know how to play Brawl and spent a year whining about Mk rather than learning the matchup and also because i don't care anymore about pissing said players off). MK just happens to be the character that has a moveset that counters Olimars *shrugs*. It has nothing to do with Metaknight in general, that's pretty much the only matchup in the game that I'd prefer to use Metaknight in. If I do switch to MK completely it'll be because this community will never get good at this game and It will be more financially strategical for me to play a character that no one bothered to learn how to beat.
I have no idea what the hell DanGR's talking about anyway because unless I've been going to and watching different tournaments than everyone else. DanGR has been wrecking this entire state with his Olimar for months. I guarantee you that picking up MK won't improve your tournament results. You only lose to the best players around here and picking up MK won't change that. Same thing with George.
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
Who cares if a majority plays MK anyway.
Everyone plays Chun Li in SF3
everyone plays spacies in melee
everyone plays santhrax or msp in marvel
everyone uses BR in halo
that's how competitive games work. there is usually (read:always) a best character/team/weapon and people who want to win use them
this community is nuts.
why is this community so butthurt at people playing MK? We're on a completely different plane of thought than every other competitive game/sport/thing ever created. We have some weird 'honor' system and a lack of a desire to actually learn our game.
finals of evo marvel i'm pretty sure was santhrax vs santhrax...no even so much as blinked..pretty sure evo GG finals was eddie vs eddie. its all good
just checked herb2 melee results theres like six falcos in the top ten no one even looks twice.
but like i said it really doesn't matter anymore
Everyone plays Chun Li in SF3
everyone plays spacies in melee
everyone plays santhrax or msp in marvel
everyone uses BR in halo
that's how competitive games work. there is usually (read:always) a best character/team/weapon and people who want to win use them
this community is nuts.
why is this community so butthurt at people playing MK? We're on a completely different plane of thought than every other competitive game/sport/thing ever created. We have some weird 'honor' system and a lack of a desire to actually learn our game.
finals of evo marvel i'm pretty sure was santhrax vs santhrax...no even so much as blinked..pretty sure evo GG finals was eddie vs eddie. its all good
just checked herb2 melee results theres like six falcos in the top ten no one even looks twice.
but like i said it really doesn't matter anymore
Sandtru27
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2009
- Messages
- 1,229
t1j just gained some coolness points
what happened to reflex in AL?
i'm gonna move out there and beat all you whining ***s with Wario until you wanna ban him
esp. you, Dan...GR
i'm the olimar destroyer i'll eat your carrotmen
RJARAKLJ:RSA:EIOJS:LK:RIOWENSM
what happened to reflex in AL?
i'm gonna move out there and beat all you whining ***s with Wario until you wanna ban him
esp. you, Dan...GR
i'm the olimar destroyer i'll eat your carrotmen
RJARAKLJ:RSA:EIOJS:LK:RIOWENSM
Winnar
Smash Lord
Janitor you keep talking about people not wanting to learn to play the game but I don't think that's what it boils down to...
Dan not only is very good at the Brawl but he also is very actively trying to get better. He's talked about his attempts to find weaknesses in MK's game to give Olimar some kind of edge to exploit, even going so far as analyzing frame data.
Your stereotype of the pro-MK ban advocate doesn't apply at ALL to Dan, who is the one pushing this argument. He isn't even going full force trying to get MK banned, he's simply pointing out the reasons why he wouldn't be upset if MK were gone from tournaments.
If you want to rally people to your side then you really need to stop using straw-man arguments in place of actually addressing the things Dan says.
Sand - you crazay XD
Dan not only is very good at the Brawl but he also is very actively trying to get better. He's talked about his attempts to find weaknesses in MK's game to give Olimar some kind of edge to exploit, even going so far as analyzing frame data.
Your stereotype of the pro-MK ban advocate doesn't apply at ALL to Dan, who is the one pushing this argument. He isn't even going full force trying to get MK banned, he's simply pointing out the reasons why he wouldn't be upset if MK were gone from tournaments.
If you want to rally people to your side then you really need to stop using straw-man arguments in place of actually addressing the things Dan says.
Sand - you crazay XD
Pika_Cam
Smash Ace
OK, you must be smoking something because Dan KNOWS his matchups. Don't tell DanGR to learn a matchup because that's the main reason he owns everyone. I wouldn't be surprised if he knew his matchups better than anyone else in AL. He's studied the MU against Metaknight and realizes that MK is extraordinarily overpowered with his options. Think about it. Part of brawl is about limiting your opponent's safe options. Snake players know this very well because they control the stage with explosives. Snake's not alone though. Every character tries to control the stage in some form or fashion. Granted, some are better at it than others (Snake, Diddy, Wario, etc.). Metaknight has too many safe options at all times, which breaks this aspect of the game.
MK also breaks counterpicking. He has no bad stages, save a few banned ones. He also has no bad MUs. The Metaknight player always has the advantage of knowing he will have an even or better match. There is never a disadvantage with picking Metaknight, therefore anyone who wants to win badly will just do this.
One thing most people fail to mention about MK is that he breaks edgehogging. Every other character in the game can be edgehogged with some success after they use their up B. Metaknight can glide under the stage to the other edge on most stages after using his shuttle loop. As if it's not enough that he has 5 midair jumps, 2 glides, and 4 special attacks that recover him a great distance.
MK also has a peculiar amount of ease planking the ledge. Unlike other characters who are good plankers, he can do so with easily avoiding any set edge grab limits. He is at an advantage when on the edge, which most characters are actually at a disadvantage.
Oh yeah, He can also cancel the lag on all of his special moves. No other character in the game has that kind of power.
Combine everything I've pointed out above with good kill potential, high priority, and very fast moves, and you have the most OP character in Brawl. It's not just one of these things that breaks Metaknight; it's all of these combined into one character.
And seriously guys, I feel like the anti-ban response to everything is "learn the matchup, scrubs." I believe people were complaining earlier that pro-ban players just shout "Ban MK" with no real argument. The same could definitely be said for this anti-ban slogan. Some of us have learned the matchup but don't like that the options are slowly boiling down to three things:
1) Lose with you character
2) Pick up Metaknight
3) Quit Brawl
If things go the way I think they are going, I'm going with the last option.
Winnar
Smash Lord
You forgot
4) Get better and win with your character
oh and also
5) Argue passionately to ban MK, exaggerating his strengths and minimizing his weaknesses (or in most cases outright stating he has none; incorrect statement, I might add)
I still don't see it.
You act like if someone picks MK then they instantly win the match, but that really doesn't happen.
At all.
If you pick MK and expect to win by abusing his strengths then you are in for a rude awakening.
I dunno, I think a lot of people lose to MK because they expect to lose to MK.
He's definitely good, but he's not BROKEN. That's...just absurd.
And guys, I'm a realist/pessimist.
Sandtru27
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2009
- Messages
- 1,229
yea lol i just don't take these boards seriously
but is dangr really good? i'd like to play him (and the rest of you dudes too of course)...... i've wrecked every olimar player in FL badly
i actually think MK vs olimar is a harder matchup than wario vs olimar
but i also hate playing as MK and get too bored to play him right all the time....... lolol
----
edit: anyways, yea, like MK isn't some god or something
maybe if he weighed as much as bowser......... then yes... you'd guys would have a stronger case
but the dude dies at surprisingly low percents in comparison to just about every other high-top tier char.
going into a match and being like "**** he countered with MK i'm gonna lose" is gonna make you lose
just own dummiessssssssssssssssss
nevershootme
Smash Master
look. here's the end result of players going anti-ban
1. piss a player off with mk
2. player drops their main
3. player picks up mk
look what happened to how many players... about 100 nationwide
example case here in FL. 2 SFL players (name withheld) recently picking up mk
in the end, enjoy free money, enter the greed side of things
and whoopie DanGR look what happened to me, I dropped oli for snake and mk... horray this ****ing piece of **** ****** ****ty *** ****** game
1. piss a player off with mk
2. player drops their main
3. player picks up mk
look what happened to how many players... about 100 nationwide
example case here in FL. 2 SFL players (name withheld) recently picking up mk
in the end, enjoy free money, enter the greed side of things
and whoopie DanGR look what happened to me, I dropped oli for snake and mk... horray this ****ing piece of **** ****** ****ty *** ****** game
Winnar
Smash Lord
Is 100 nationwide supposed to be a big number?
Also yes Dan is really, really good. Especially as Olimar.
Also yes Dan is really, really good. Especially as Olimar.
you guys do know that u don't hav to pick mk vs mk right?
isn't there a reason people learn secondaries? you see this so much in fighting games. if your main can't beat a certain character then u switch to a 2nd duh. like me and u for instance pika cam. when we play i may go snake against u at times but i know how hard that match up is but still tho idc cuz i know pika can be beaten with snake. if that ain't working i switch to falco for a better chance. not saying i'ma win but to me i feel my chances of beating u are different cuz of what falco can do and what snake can't do. y do u think i went falco in our pools? yea u beat falco game two taking it to game three where i used snake and won. basically if ur main ain't doin tha job find a secondary for that person. we all see this so much in fighting games. i understand u wanna stay with ur main thru thick and thin but if it ain't working then get a secondary. Simple.
isn't there a reason people learn secondaries? you see this so much in fighting games. if your main can't beat a certain character then u switch to a 2nd duh. like me and u for instance pika cam. when we play i may go snake against u at times but i know how hard that match up is but still tho idc cuz i know pika can be beaten with snake. if that ain't working i switch to falco for a better chance. not saying i'ma win but to me i feel my chances of beating u are different cuz of what falco can do and what snake can't do. y do u think i went falco in our pools? yea u beat falco game two taking it to game three where i used snake and won. basically if ur main ain't doin tha job find a secondary for that person. we all see this so much in fighting games. i understand u wanna stay with ur main thru thick and thin but if it ain't working then get a secondary. Simple.
Mr. Referee
Smash Cadet
Y'know I've been to quite a number of AL tournaments and have yet to actually fight a MK, except in that one random tourney but I beat him with Zelda of all people, so in my opinion it doesn't really matter for AL's Brawl scene. Now if you go out of state there could be a problem but in state it's fine.
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
i dont really know what DanGR is talking about. Nothing he's saying HIMSELF applies at ALL to HIMSELF. He's talking about switching to MK because Olimar is useless or something but i'm pretty sure DanGr wrecks everyone with Olimar. I think he's just being emo honestly. Him switching to MK isn't going to change a thing. He'll beat the same people he already beats (except, funnily probably me, since i'm better against MK than Olimar lol) and he'll lose to the same people he already loses too.
I'm pretty sure if DanGR played any other character besides Olimar this thread wouldn't have gotten made.
and DanGR's argument is not only about himself, he's talking about the community as a whole switching to MK, and my argument DOES apply to the community as a whole. DanGR mentioned other players besides himself like
someone like pops will definitely do better by switching to MK, and doing stuff like spotdodge d-smash over and over and THAT'S because this community never learned how to fight MK. That's definitely what it boils down to.
BigLøu
Smash Lord
I really don't see people switching over to mk that dont already main/use mk anymore.
And I disagree about the whole people never learned to beat mk thing, I think people are getting a lot better at the matchup that actually invest sometime into it. Hell, im even starting to see some possibilities luigi has against mk nowadays so that hopefully I can drop snake entirely once I get good enough at the luigi/mk matchup.
And I disagree about the whole people never learned to beat mk thing, I think people are getting a lot better at the matchup that actually invest sometime into it. Hell, im even starting to see some possibilities luigi has against mk nowadays so that hopefully I can drop snake entirely once I get good enough at the luigi/mk matchup.
Pika_Cam
Smash Ace
Well, I actually do have a secondary just for MK, his name's Kirby. I still want MK banned for reasons posted earlier though. I think he does too many things that break traditional game strategies. The main reason for me is that he has too many safe options.
EDIT: I'd also like to point out that you barely won that match with Snake.